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736 & 2671W

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  • luther
    I recent purchased a 736 from ebay which came with a 2671W Pennsylvania 12 wheel tender. Both needed some small repairs and cleaned up nicely. The 736 is a
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 10
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      I recent purchased a 736 from ebay which came with a 2671W Pennsylvania 12 wheel tender. Both needed some small repairs and cleaned up nicely. The 736 is a very smooth runner.

      I believe the 736 could be a 1950 model - as best as I can tell it has the larger silver 736 number (I do not have a white smaller number to compare to). It also has a die cast metal trailing truck, flag staffs, and three window cab.

      Did the 736 ever appear from Lionel with the 2671W or only the 2671WX (Lionel Lines)? My normal identification sources (Doyle's Postwar Guide, Tandem-Associates & postwarlionel.com) do not seem to agree or have a definitive answer.

      Thanks,
      Luther
    • Toni & Brian
      This normally came with the six wheel Lionel Lines tender. It looks like someone exchanged yours with a turbine of the same year. 1950-1951 From:
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 10
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        This normally came with the six wheel Lionel Lines tender. It looks like someone exchanged yours with a turbine of the same year. 1950-1951

         

        From: Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of luther
        Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 2:40 PM
        To: Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Lionel_PostwarTrains] 736 & 2671W

         

         

        I recent purchased a 736 from ebay which came with a 2671W Pennsylvania 12 wheel tender. Both needed some small repairs and cleaned up nicely. The 736 is a very smooth runner.

        I believe the 736 could be a 1950 model - as best as I can tell it has the larger silver 736 number (I do not have a white smaller number to compare to). It also has a die cast metal trailing truck, flag staffs, and three window cab.

        Did the 736 ever appear from Lionel with the 2671W or only the 2671WX (Lionel Lines)? My normal identification sources (Doyle's Postwar Guide, Tandem-Associates & postwarlionel.com) do not seem to agree or have a definitive answer.

        Thanks,
        Luther

      • Thomas McLean
        From my research I believe the 1950 736 came with the 2671wx lionel lines tender. The 2671w pennsylvania tender seemed to be available on the 1951 model. I
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 10
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          From my research I believe the 1950 736 came with the 2671wx lionel lines tender. The 2671w pennsylvania tender seemed to be available on the 1951 model. I have this blurb to support this claim (note I believe the reference to 2671 ws is a mistake that should be wx):
          -TM
          One of Lionel's premium steam locomotive offerings, the #736 2-8-4 "Berkshire" was available in five different variations from 1950 through 1968 (excluding 1952 because of the Korean United Nations Conflict) 1950-1951 MODEL 2-8-4 Berkshire Loco and Tender Silver rubber stamped lettering beneath cab window, which had three simulated panes Die-Cast metal trailing truck. Hexagonal-based flagstaffs Black-painted die-cast body and chemically blackened die-cast pilot Ornamental whistle and moving bell. Wire hand rails. Hinged boiler front. Magnetraction, 3 position e-unit, working head light, lens and smoke. 2671WS Streamlined 'Lionel Lines' tender with water scoop and one magnetic coupler, 6 wheel trucks, base plate usually stamped with 2671WS The prototype Berkshires were known for their superior ability to climb mountains. The first ones were built by the Lima Locomotive works in 1924, and operated on the Boston and Albany. They were given the nickname "Berkshire" because of how well they handled that mountain range for the B&A, especially compared to the USRA 2-8-2 "Mikados" that were in use at the time. Subsequently, hundreds of these giants were built (mostly by Lima, Baldwin, and ALco) for dozens of railroads across the United States. The last of them rolled out of the shops in 1949. Some of the largest fleets of Berkshires were on the Erie Railroad (105), The Chesapeake and Ohio (90), The Nickel Plate (80), and the B&A (55). Probably the most famous Berkshire is the Pere Marquette's #1225, the engine featured in the 2004 movie, The Polar Express . This version of the Berk was the first 736 that Lionel made, and was available in 1950 and 1951. It always came with a #2671WX 6-axle, 12-wheel tender. It was the motive power in two sets - the 2163WS and 2165WS of 1950. The 2163WS was reissued in 1951, and the engine was also available for separate sale. Some tenders came with "PENNSYLVANIA," while some sported "LIONEL LINES." The numbers on each side of the cab are rubber stamped in silver, while the tenders lettering is heat stamped. It has an ornamental whistle and bell, as well as wire handrails running down both sides of the boiler. The front of the boiler is on hinges and can be opened to change the headlight bulb. It also has a full compliment of driving rods, connecting spoked drivers, and a die cast trailing truck.This engine features: A powerful Pullmor motor, mounted at an angle with a Worm driveshaft. Magne-Traction. Three-position electronic reverse unit. Operating smoke unit. Headlight. Whistle in the tender.
          There are several small factors that changed over the years, which can be used to identify the different versions. The main ones are whether the trailing truck is plastic or die cast, the method in which the numbers on the cab were applied, and the accompanying tender.


           
          Thomas M. McLean
           
           


          On Monday, February 10, 2014 4:39 PM, luther <luther_stanton@...> wrote:
           
          I recent purchased a 736 from ebay which came with a 2671W Pennsylvania 12 wheel tender. Both needed some small repairs and cleaned up nicely. The 736 is a very smooth runner.

          I believe the 736 could be a 1950 model - as best as I can tell it has the larger silver 736 number (I do not have a white smaller number to compare to). It also has a die cast metal trailing truck, flag staffs, and three window cab.

          Did the 736 ever appear from Lionel with the 2671W or only the 2671WX (Lionel Lines)? My normal identification sources (Doyle's Postwar Guide, Tandem-Associates & postwarlionel.com) do not seem to agree or have a definitive answer.

          Thanks,
          Luther



        • Luther Stanton
          Thank you for the information - with this it sounds like there was a definite possibility of the Pennsylvania tender being available with the earlier 736s. It
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 14
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            Thank you for the information - with this it sounds like there was a definite possibility of the Pennsylvania tender being available with the earlier 736s.

            It states "it always came with a 2671WX" tender and "some came with PENNSYLVANIA while some sported LIONEL LINES".  Would this indicate that there are perhaps 2671WX tender frames with the PENNSYLVANIA shells?

            The frame on mine is stamped 2671W.  Has anyone seen an original Pennsylvania shell on a 2671WX frame?  

            Of course one purchased today could have been swapped...

            - Luther 


            From: Thomas McLean <tmackinator@...>
            To: "Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com" <Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:33 PM
            Subject: Re: [Lionel_PostwarTrains] 736 & 2671W

             
            From my research I believe the 1950 736 came with the 2671wx lionel lines tender. The 2671w pennsylvania tender seemed to be available on the 1951 model. I have this blurb to support this claim (note I believe the reference to 2671 ws is a mistake that should be wx):
            -TM
            One of Lionel's premium steam locomotive offerings, the #736 2-8-4 "Berkshire" was available in five different variations from 1950 through 1968 (excluding 1952 because of the Korean United Nations Conflict) 1950-1951 MODEL 2-8-4 Berkshire Loco and Tender Silver rubber stamped lettering beneath cab window, which had three simulated panes Die-Cast metal trailing truck. Hexagonal-based flagstaffs Black-painted die-cast body and chemically blackened die-cast pilot Ornamental whistle and moving bell. Wire hand rails. Hinged boiler front. Magnetraction, 3 position e-unit, working head light, lens and smoke. 2671WS Streamlined 'Lionel Lines' tender with water scoop and one magnetic coupler, 6 wheel trucks, base plate usually stamped with 2671WS The prototype Berkshires were known for their superior ability to climb mountains. The first ones were built by the Lima Locomotive works in 1924, and operated on the Boston and Albany. They were given the nickname "Berkshire" because of how well they handled that mountain range for the B&A, especially compared to the USRA 2-8-2 "Mikados" that were in use at the time. Subsequently, hundreds of these giants were built (mostly by Lima, Baldwin, and ALco) for dozens of railroads across the United States. The last of them rolled out of the shops in 1949. Some of the largest fleets of Berkshires were on the Erie Railroad (105), The Chesapeake and Ohio (90), The Nickel Plate (80), and the B&A (55). Probably the most famous Berkshire is the Pere Marquette's #1225, the engine featured in the 2004 movie, The Polar Express . This version of the Berk was the first 736 that Lionel made, and was available in 1950 and 1951. It always came with a #2671WX 6-axle, 12-wheel tender. It was the motive power in two sets - the 2163WS and 2165WS of 1950. The 2163WS was reissued in 1951, and the engine was also available for separate sale. Some tenders came with "PENNSYLVANIA," while some sported "LIONEL LINES." The numbers on each side of the cab are rubber stamped in silver, while the tenders lettering is heat stamped. It has an ornamental whistle and bell, as well as wire handrails running down both sides of the boiler. The front of the boiler is on hinges and can be opened to change the headlight bulb. It also has a full compliment of driving rods, connecting spoked drivers, and a die cast trailing truck.This engine features: A powerful Pullmor motor, mounted at an angle with a Worm driveshaft. Magne-Traction. Three-position electronic reverse unit. Operating smoke unit. Headlight. Whistle in the tender.
            There are several small factors that changed over the years, which can be used to identify the different versions. The main ones are whether the trailing truck is plastic or die cast, the method in which the numbers on the cab were applied, and the accompanying tender.


             
            Thomas M. McLean
             
             


            On Monday, February 10, 2014 4:39 PM, luther <luther_stanton@...> wrote:
             
            I recent purchased a 736 from ebay which came with a 2671W Pennsylvania 12 wheel tender. Both needed some small repairs and cleaned up nicely. The 736 is a very smooth runner.

            I believe the 736 could be a 1950 model - as best as I can tell it has the larger silver 736 number (I do not have a white smaller number to compare to). It also has a die cast metal trailing truck, flag staffs, and three window cab.

            Did the 736 ever appear from Lionel with the 2671W or only the 2671WX (Lionel Lines)? My normal identification sources (Doyle's Postwar Guide, Tandem-Associates & postwarlionel.com) do not seem to agree or have a definitive answer.

            Thanks,
            Luther





          • Thomas McLean
            Hi Luther. After I carefully re-read that blub I posted, I realized it was pretty ambiguous. The Lionel postwar library on the 726 says that the Pennsylvania
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 14
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              Hi Luther. After I carefully re-read that blub I posted, I realized it was pretty ambiguous. The Lionel postwar library on the 726 says that the Pennsylvania tender was available. My take on the whole issue seems to be that initially, the 726 was available only with the Lionel lines tender 2671wx then later the Pennsylvania tender 2671w became available in some situations, probably in set inclusions. -TM

               
              Thomas M. McLean
               
               


              On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:46 AM, Luther Stanton <luther_stanton@...> wrote:
               
              Thank you for the information - with this it sounds like there was a definite possibility of the Pennsylvania tender being available with the earlier 736s.

              It states "it always came with a 2671WX" tender and "some came with PENNSYLVANIA while some sported LIONEL LINES".  Would this indicate that there are perhaps 2671WX tender frames with the PENNSYLVANIA shells?

              The frame on mine is stamped 2671W.  Has anyone seen an original Pennsylvania shell on a 2671WX frame?  

              Of course one purchased today could have been swapped...

              - Luther 


              From: Thomas McLean <tmackinator@...>
              To: "Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com" <Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:33 PM
              Subject: Re: [Lionel_PostwarTrains] 736 & 2671W

               
              From my research I believe the 1950 736 came with the 2671wx lionel lines tender. The 2671w pennsylvania tender seemed to be available on the 1951 model. I have this blurb to support this claim (note I believe the reference to 2671 ws is a mistake that should be wx):
              -TM
              One of Lionel's premium steam locomotive offerings, the #736 2-8-4 "Berkshire" was available in five different variations from 1950 through 1968 (excluding 1952 because of the Korean United Nations Conflict) 1950-1951 MODEL 2-8-4 Berkshire Loco and Tender Silver rubber stamped lettering beneath cab window, which had three simulated panes Die-Cast metal trailing truck. Hexagonal-based flagstaffs Black-painted die-cast body and chemically blackened die-cast pilot Ornamental whistle and moving bell. Wire hand rails. Hinged boiler front. Magnetraction, 3 position e-unit, working head light, lens and smoke. 2671WS Streamlined 'Lionel Lines' tender with water scoop and one magnetic coupler, 6 wheel trucks, base plate usually stamped with 2671WS The prototype Berkshires were known for their superior ability to climb mountains. The first ones were built by the Lima Locomotive works in 1924, and operated on the Boston and Albany. They were given the nickname "Berkshire" because of how well they handled that mountain range for the B&A, especially compared to the USRA 2-8-2 "Mikados" that were in use at the time. Subsequently, hundreds of these giants were built (mostly by Lima, Baldwin, and ALco) for dozens of railroads across the United States. The last of them rolled out of the shops in 1949. Some of the largest fleets of Berkshires were on the Erie Railroad (105), The Chesapeake and Ohio (90), The Nickel Plate (80), and the B&A (55). Probably the most famous Berkshire is the Pere Marquette's #1225, the engine featured in the 2004 movie, The Polar Express . This version of the Berk was the first 736 that Lionel made, and was available in 1950 and 1951. It always came with a #2671WX 6-axle, 12-wheel tender. It was the motive power in two sets - the 2163WS and 2165WS of 1950. The 2163WS was reissued in 1951, and the engine was also available for separate sale. Some tenders came with "PENNSYLVANIA," while some sported "LIONEL LINES." The numbers on each side of the cab are rubber stamped in silver, while the tenders lettering is heat stamped. It has an ornamental whistle and bell, as well as wire handrails running down both sides of the boiler. The front of the boiler is on hinges and can be opened to change the headlight bulb. It also has a full compliment of driving rods, connecting spoked drivers, and a die cast trailing truck.This engine features: A powerful Pullmor motor, mounted at an angle with a Worm driveshaft. Magne-Traction. Three-position electronic reverse unit. Operating smoke unit. Headlight. Whistle in the tender.
              There are several small factors that changed over the years, which can be used to identify the different versions. The main ones are whether the trailing truck is plastic or die cast, the method in which the numbers on the cab were applied, and the accompanying tender.


               
              Thomas M. McLean
               
               


              On Monday, February 10, 2014 4:39 PM, luther <luther_stanton@...> wrote:
               
              I recent purchased a 736 from ebay which came with a 2671W Pennsylvania 12 wheel tender. Both needed some small repairs and cleaned up nicely. The 736 is a very smooth runner.

              I believe the 736 could be a 1950 model - as best as I can tell it has the larger silver 736 number (I do not have a white smaller number to compare to). It also has a die cast metal trailing truck, flag staffs, and three window cab.

              Did the 736 ever appear from Lionel with the 2671W or only the 2671WX (Lionel Lines)? My normal identification sources (Doyle's Postwar Guide, Tandem-Associates & postwarlionel.com) do not seem to agree or have a definitive answer.

              Thanks,
              Luther







            • mapman504
              Here is some additional info on the 726 Loco and associated tenders from the Postwar Lionel Trains Library site:
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 17
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                Here is some additional info on the 726 Loco and associated tenders from the Postwar Lionel Trains Library site:


                Gerry
                West Chester, PA
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