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Rewiring #210 Texas Special

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  • kennybaughman
    Hello Everyone! I just got a set of #210 Texas Specials off of ebay. Of course,it s always a crapshoot when you buy on there.On this set,someone replaced the
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 5
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      Hello Everyone! I just got a set of #210 Texas Specials off of ebay. Of course,it's always a crapshoot when you buy on there.On this set,someone replaced the original 3 position e unit,with a two position e unit,and most of the wiring needs replaced.I have a spare 3 position e-unit that will work with them,but I was wondering if anyone has a wiring schematic for these Alco's?The wiring is so fouled up,I am just going to replace it all,and a wiring diagram would be of great assistance.Thanks and enjoy your hobby!-Ken Baughman
    • Thomas McLean
      Go to Olsens toy train parts, go to the library section and look under post war loco s. The 210 is listed there. One thing however the two position e unit
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 5
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        Go to Olsens toy train parts, go to the library section and look under post war loco's. The 210 is listed there. One thing however the two position e unit worked with a double wound field coil . You can change a two position motor to the three positon e unit by using only one of the windings, either one will work. The windings on a two position motor are tied together on one side so it's best to undo the windings. Also the connection point on the tab located on the motor body itself is isolated from ground on the two position set up. You will have to ground one side of the motor winding to work with the three position unit. If you have an original set up with the motor that was designed to work with the three position unit, it wouldn't work with a two position eunit as there is not a way to reverse it with a two position e unit as it is designed to energize two separate oppositely wound field coils. You can however make a double wound motor work with a three position e unit. In the files section I have a diagram on how to convert from a two position to a three position e unit. It is called e-unit conversion.jpg and is by tmackinator. Check that out .-TM

         
        Thomas M. McLean
         
         


        On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 9:58 AM, "kennybaughman@..." <kennybaughman@...> wrote:
         
        Hello Everyone! I just got a set of #210 Texas Specials off of ebay. Of course,it's always a crapshoot when you buy on there.On this set,someone replaced the original 3 position e unit,with a two position e unit,and most of the wiring needs replaced.I have a spare 3 position e-unit that will work with them,but I was wondering if anyone has a wiring schematic for these Alco's?The wiring is so fouled up,I am just going to replace it all,and a wiring diagram would be of great assistance.Thanks and enjoy your hobby!-Ken Baughman


      • rjdenes
        The 2-position reversing unit was the way the 210 was made. Because of the field windings, you can t use a 3-position with that motor. Jim In a message dated
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 5
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          The 2-position reversing unit was the way the 210 was made.  Because of the field windings, you can't use a 3-position with that motor.
          Jim
           
          In a message dated 2/5/2014 9:58:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kennybaughman@... writes:
          Hello Everyone! I just got a set of #210 Texas Specials off of ebay. Of course,it's always a crapshoot when you buy on there.On this set,someone replaced the original 3 position e unit,with a two position e unit,and most of the wiring needs replaced.I have a spare 3 position e-unit that will work with them,but I was wondering if anyone has a wiring schematic for these Alco's?The wiring is so fouled up,I am just going to replace it all,and a wiring diagram would be of great assistance.Thanks and enjoy your hobby!-Ken Baughman

        • trainlarry
          The 210 was made with a 3 position e-unit. http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_210_diesel.htm If your loco has a 2 position e-unit, was the
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 5
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            The 210 was made with a 3 position e-unit.
            http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_210_diesel.htm

            If your loco has a 2 position e-unit, was the motor truck changed to accomodate it? If it was, then the field windings need to be modified as per a previous post. If you have the original motor truck, then the 2 position e-unit probably never reversed the engine.

            Here is the schematic for both 2 and 3 position e-units.

            http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/ho%5Cd200a.pdf

            Larry
          • Thomas McLean
            I think if you research it you will find the 210 is a three position e unit. Mine is. The 211is a two position engine. It is very possible to convert a two
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 6
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              I think if you research it you will find the 210 is a three position e unit. Mine is. The 211is a two position engine. It is very possible to convert a two position double wound motor to work with a three position e unit by rewiring. I have done it many times.-TM

               
              Thomas M. McLean
               
               


              On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:06 PM, "jimpaterno@..." <jimpaterno@...> wrote:
               
              The 2-position reversing unit was the way the 210 was made.  Because of the field windings, you can't use a 3-position with that motor.
              Jim
               
              In a message dated 2/5/2014 9:58:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kennybaughman@... writes:
              Hello Everyone! I just got a set of #210 Texas Specials off of ebay. Of course,it's always a crapshoot when you buy on there.On this set,someone replaced the original 3 position e unit,with a two position e unit,and most of the wiring needs replaced.I have a spare 3 position e-unit that will work with them,but I was wondering if anyone has a wiring schematic for these Alco's?The wiring is so fouled up,I am just going to replace it all,and a wiring diagram would be of great assistance.Thanks and enjoy your hobby!-Ken Baughman


            • kennybaughman
              Yes Jim,The #210 I bought was advertised as running in forward only. So most likely,I have been the victim of the ol switcheroonie!!! The wiring in the whole
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 6
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                Yes Jim,The #210 I bought was advertised as running in forward only.

                So most likely,I have been the victim of the ol' switcheroonie!!!

                The wiring in the whole train is a complete mess,as the train went around the layout twice before one of the wires came unsoldered.

                I got them for 37.00,so I figured I would have to perform some type of life saving surgery on them!!


                Actually the wiring is very old and brittle,so rewiring the train was going to have to be done,as the light was shorting out,when the wire hit the frame.All in All,it should be a good deal once the work is done.Thanks very much for the wiring diagram info,that's what I needed to make sure I did this repair right!!Happy Railroading!!!

              • kennybaughman
                Hello,Yes Tom I believe I have a pair of the original #210 s,and someone has performed the old switcheroonie on me with the e-unit. But still not so bad for
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 6
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                  Hello,Yes Tom I believe I have a pair of the original #210's,and someone has performed the old switcheroonie on me with the e-unit.

                  But still not so bad for 37.00!!!

                  Another member here has provided me with the required wiring diagram for the #210,so I should be able to rewire the whole thing,as all of the wires are old and very brittle.

                  I was not expecting a mint set for 37.00,but it would have been nice if the seller had mentioned the two position e-unit.

                  He only advertised that the train ran in forward only,so right there is a tip that this is the original #210 motor and not the #211.Thanks,you guys are fantastic on here!!I enjoy your you tube video's,I wish you would make some more postwar repair videos. Thanks,Ken

                • Thomas McLean
                  I searched e bay and believe I found the set you bought. I think what you have is 210 shells installed on the wrong chassis. The 210 had 2 axle magnatraction
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 7
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                    I searched e bay and believe I found the set you bought. I think what you have is 210 shells installed on the wrong chassis. The 210 had 2 axle magnatraction along with a three position e unit. What I saw was no magnatraction and the low end open worm drive. -TM

                     
                    Thomas M. McLean
                     
                     


                    On Thursday, February 6, 2014 7:45 PM, "kennybaughman@..." <kennybaughman@...> wrote:
                     
                    Hello,Yes Tom I believe I have a pair of the original #210's,and someone has performed the old switcheroonie on me with the e-unit.
                    But still not so bad for 37.00!!!
                    Another member here has provided me with the required wiring diagram for the #210,so I should be able to rewire the whole thing,as all of the wires are old and very brittle.
                    I was not expecting a mint set for 37.00,but it would have been nice if the seller had mentioned the two position e-unit.
                    He only advertised that the train ran in forward only,so right there is a tip that this is the original #210 motor and not the #211.Thanks,you guys are fantastic on here!!I enjoy your you tube video's,I wish you would make some more postwar repair videos. Thanks,Ken


                  • nvocc5
                    Hi Tom Buyer beware when it comes to ebay. I think I bought the same unit from his cousin and guess what wire and split hold it together. I am think of
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 7
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                      Hi Tom


                      Buyer beware when it comes to ebay. I think I bought the same unit from his cousin and guess what wire and split hold it together.  I am think of rebuild it and using electricrr.com equipment.  Anyone use eletricrr.com equipment before and how happy where they with the preformance?


                      Kris

                      White Plains, NY USA

                    • kennybaughman
                      Hello Tom,Yes upon further inspection,there is absolutely NO MAGNE-TRACTION on this engine.I know it wears out some with time,but when I put a piece of track
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 8
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                        Hello Tom,Yes upon further inspection,there is absolutely NO MAGNE-TRACTION on this engine.I know it wears out some with time,but when I put a piece of track up next to it:NOTHING!!!I have been hood winked,bamboozled!!I at least wanted the maqne-traction motor!!!I am a magnetraction fanatic,I absolutely love it,and cannot understand why aqanyone would want a train without it.I am like you,I like to open them up and RUN EM'!!!Oh well,back to the old drawing board!!!Is this then the other motor that is wired up different???I don't even know myself anymore with this set!!!Win some,lose some, as long as you win more than you lose I guess that's okay!!!And this guy claims to be a train store on his invoice on top of it!!!


                      • kennybaughman
                        Hello Tom,Am I able to post a photo or two of the train on here?I sure would like you to see it,so you could tell me what I have.Thanks,Ken
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 8
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                          Hello Tom,Am I able to post a photo or two of the train on here?I sure would like you to see it,so you could tell me what I have.Thanks,Ken

                        • Thomas McLean
                          Hi Kenny, Quite honestly, the seller did no wrong as he posted enough clear pictures to show exactly what he is selling. Part of the hobby of
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 8
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                            Hi Kenny, Quite honestly, the seller did no wrong as he posted enough clear pictures to show exactly what he is selling. Part of the hobby of collecting/running trains like this is to do thorough research before buying. If you are into post war, get the Greenberg or Doyle books on Lionel postwar trains. They are a must if someone has limited experience buying trains. Just by looking at the underside of the train I immediately knew it was not the correct chassis for a 210. All is not lost however. There are tons of chassis, motors,complete power trucks available on e-bay. Maybe you could get the proper power truck with 2 axle magnatraction and another powered frame and have an A-A twin powered setup that will pull anything hooked behind it. This could be a fun project and will certainly give you valuable experience in train repair. Don't feel bad as we have all made mistakes in collecting trains!-TM




                            Thomas M. McLean
                             
                             


                            On Saturday, February 8, 2014 6:20 AM, "kennybaughman@..." <kennybaughman@...> wrote:
                             
                            Hello Tom,Am I able to post a photo or two of the train on here?I sure would like you to see it,so you could tell me what I have.Thanks,Ken


                          • kennybaughman
                            Hello Tom,Thanks for all your advice on the Texas Special Alco s. I don t feel bad,because to me there is no such thing as a bad Lionel train!! My last
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 8
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                              Hello Tom,Thanks for all your advice on the Texas Special Alco's.

                              I don't feel bad,because to me there is no such thing as a bad Lionel train!!


                              My last question for you on this one is what do I follow now to do the rewiring job that needs done???


                              I really never checked the pictures out close,it was one of those"impulse" buys,as I saw the train only 5 minutes before it ended.And since the price was low,I bid on it!!

                              If you could be so kind,please advise me what wiring diagram to follow to get this running again.

                              The way it is wired now has to be wrong,and the wires are brittle and missing insulation,so it has to get some new wires!!!

                              Sorry to bother you again,should I just leave the 2 position e-unit in,or is there a way to make a 3 position e-unit work with this motor??


                              Thanks again,and enjoy the hobby!-Ken

                            • Thomas McLean
                              Kenny, look in the files section of this group, accessed from the home page. I have a wiring diagram of how to convert a two position set up to a three
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 9
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                                Kenny, look in the files section of this group, accessed from the home page. I have a wiring diagram of how to convert a two position set up to a three position setup using a two position type motor such as yours. The file is called e unit conversion.jpg by tmackinator. It's very straightforward.-TM

                                 
                                Thomas M. McLean
                                 
                                 


                                On Saturday, February 8, 2014 11:57 PM, "kennybaughman@..." <kennybaughman@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Hello Tom,Thanks for all your advice on the Texas Special Alco's.
                                I don't feel bad,because to me there is no such thing as a bad Lionel train!!

                                My last question for you on this one is what do I follow now to do the rewiring job that needs done???

                                I really never checked the pictures out close,it was one of those"impulse" buys,as I saw the train only 5 minutes before it ended.And since the price was low,I bid on it!!
                                If you could be so kind,please advise me what wiring diagram to follow to get this running again.
                                The way it is wired now has to be wrong,and the wires are brittle and missing insulation,so it has to get some new wires!!!
                                Sorry to bother you again,should I just leave the 2 position e-unit in,or is there a way to make a 3 position e-unit work with this motor??

                                Thanks again,and enjoy the hobby!-Ken


                              • kennybaughman
                                Mr.Tom,Thanks for the wiring diagram for the 2 position to 3 position conversion.It worked perfect!!!I put a video up on you tube showing how it worked!My you
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 8
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                                  Mr.Tom,Thanks for the wiring diagram for the 2 position to 3 position conversion.It worked perfect!!!I put a video up on you tube showing how it worked!My you tube name is streettrain77,the video is called #211 Texas Special conversion,check it out if you get some spare time!I thanked you and the group in it.Thanks again!!!It runs great.Thanks for your help!!!-Kenny Baughman

                                • Thomas McLean
                                  Glad I could help-TM  Thomas M. McLean   On Sunday, March 9, 2014 3:53 AM, kennybaughman@yahoo.com wrote:   Mr.Tom,Thanks for
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 9
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                                    Glad I could help-TM 
                                    Thomas M. McLean
                                     
                                     


                                    On Sunday, March 9, 2014 3:53 AM, "kennybaughman@..." <kennybaughman@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Mr.Tom,Thanks for the wiring diagram for the 2 position to 3 position conversion.It worked perfect!!!I put a video up on you tube showing how it worked!My you tube name is streettrain77,the video is called #211 Texas Special conversion,check it out if you get some spare time!I thanked you and the group in it.Thanks again!!!It runs great.Thanks for your help!!!-Kenny Baughman


                                  • kennybaughman
                                    Hello Everyone! Now that I have the Texas Special Alco running,I need to put rear couplers on both units. I was thinking I could use the solid non-operating
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 10
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                                      Hello Everyone! Now that I have the Texas Special Alco running,I need to put rear couplers on both units.


                                      I was thinking I could use the solid non-operating "dummy" one piece couplers that are on the rear of Lionel's Postwar F3 units.

                                      The opening for them on the Texas Specials look like they would work,but when I looked in the Greenberg,it says part #2243-90 Coupler Head,and Centering Spring#2243-190.

                                      Do I have to use these,or will  the one piece F3 dummy coupler work just as well?

                                      Happy Railroading!-Kenny Baughman

                                    • Thomas McLean
                                      The 2243 is an f3. The engines use the same head. You don t necessarily need the centering spring.-TM   Thomas M. McLean     On Monday, March 10, 2014 3:20
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Mar 10
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                                        The 2243 is an f3. The engines use the same head. You don't necessarily need the centering spring.-TM
                                         
                                        Thomas M. McLean
                                         
                                         


                                        On Monday, March 10, 2014 3:20 AM, "kennybaughman@..." <kennybaughman@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        Hello Everyone! Now that I have the Texas Special Alco running,I need to put rear couplers on both units.

                                        I was thinking I could use the solid non-operating "dummy" one piece couplers that are on the rear of Lionel's Postwar F3 units.
                                        The opening for them on the Texas Specials look like they would work,but when I looked in the Greenberg,it says part #2243-90 Coupler Head,and Centering Spring#2243-190.
                                        Do I have to use these,or will  the one piece F3 dummy coupler work just as well?
                                        Happy Railroading!-Kenny Baughman


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