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Re: names David and Goliath

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  • Andis Kaulins
    Let me say that I generally agree with F. Graham Millar, who was a perspicacious intellect, that the Biblical story of David and Goliath reflects an ancient
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 2, 2006
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      Let me say that I generally agree with F. Graham Millar, who was a perspicacious intellect, that the Biblical story of David and Goliath reflects an ancient tale of the stars (see LexiLine.com at http://www.lexiline.com/lexiline/lexi21.htm et seq.). It may or may not also reflect a later historical event - but that is not the issue here at the moment.

      Millar identifes David with Bootes, his sling with Corona Borealis and Goliath with Orion.

      Based on the name information provided to the LexiLine list by Keith Davis, which makes plausible the equating of David with Dayyad and the Assyrian Hercules, we actually do get a better fit in terms of the shape of the stellar constellations, since this would mean that David was originally Hercules (+ Ophiuchus, an interpretation also possible by Millar's own analysis), Bootes the sling, and Corona Borealis the stone for the sling.

      The simplest connection to Orion is that as the stars of Orion set in the sky, the stars of Hercules rise in the sky on the other side of the horizon. These are "rival" stars. David is in this manner the eternal opponent of Goliath (Orion) in the heavens.

      As written by Arif Babul :

      "[T]he use of stories and poetry to remember the various constellations in the sky and their relative positions was a common feature of the Near/Middle East and Mediterranean civilizations. These stories or mnemonic devices in time became entwined with existing stories and legends or may have even taken on a life of their own (so to say), and come down to today in the form of myths ."

      We thus find the following statement in a discussion at comparative-religion.com, posted by nogodnomasters:

      "The Persians figured that Ursa Minor was the Myrobalanum (plum fruit used in dyeing), or date-palm seed or fruit, which the group stars was thought to resemble. The date palm is seen as a symbol of the world axis (or polar axis), or Tree of Life. ("The righteous shall flourish like the date palm" -Psalm 91: 12). In their Eden or Eridu as it was called the tree was called "the shrine of the two". On an Assyrian cylinder the early couple is pictured as sitting by the seven branched tree with a serpent by the woman."

      Enjoy,

      Andis

      --- In LexiLine@yahoogroups.com, "daviservant" <daviservant@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wikipedia states that the name Goliath is a Semitized Indo-European name.
      >
      > There is much more information on the name David. Traditionally the
      > name David is said to have been derived from Hebrew Dawidh (beloved,
      > friend), closely related to Hebrew dodh (beloved, uncle).
      >
      > In an article on the Habiru, www.reference.com suggests that Dawidh
      > may be derived from the Hurrian name Dudya (beloved of God); dud
      > (beloved), Ya (God). The Theoligical Dictionary of the Old Testament
      > Volume III, page 143 compares the Hebrew word for love (w/ydd) to the
      > Hurrian word for love (tat).
      >
      > In another article on David, www.reference.com says that King David
      > was the pharoah Psusennes II. This pharoah had a star symbol similar
      > to the Star of David. Dawidh is said to be derived from the Egyptian
      > word djuat (star).
      >
      > Some people have suggested that Dawidh comes from the name Toth but
      > this theory has no substantial support and is very unlikely.
      >
      > The Lexicon Totius Latinatus Volume V, Onamasticon, page 463 and the
      > Thesaurus Linguae Latinae, Supplementum Nomina Propria Latina, Volume
      > III, page 60 both state that David derives both from Hebrew dodh
      > (beloved) as well as from Hebrew day (strong) yad (hand). They cite
      > the works of two bishops Augustinus (4th century) and Faustus (5th
      > century, as well as Psalm 34 for the origin day yad. Psalm 34
      > commemorates the incident described in 1 Samuel 21:10 when David
      > (Dawidh) was trying to hide among his enemies at Gath. When he was
      > recognized by some people he pretended to be insane so that the king
      > would send him away. Is it possible that Dawidh called himself Dayyad
      > to trick his enemies?
      >
      > I checked the name Dayyad. Dayyad the Hunter was a sort of mythical
      > Assyrian Hercules. Could the myth of Dayyad the Hunter be the basis
      > for the legend of David and Goliath? Anyway, it is fairly common for
      > one name to have two or more origins. Dayyad could have assimilated to
      > the name Dawidh over a period of time.
      >
      > Keith Davis
      >
    • William Glyn-Jones
      Regarding the tree as the axis of the sky, might the serpent twined within it then be Draco? My research has lead me to the conclusion that this serpent around
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 3, 2006
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        Regarding the tree as the axis of the sky, might the serpent twined within it then be Draco? My research has lead me to the conclusion that this serpent around the pole became the vine in Greek tradition, the one that twines up around the mast of the ship of Dionysos, the pole (thyrsos) of the maenad, the pine tree above the tomb of Ikarios and so on. The logic behind this is that the constellation is circumpolar, circling the pole, like a the vine round around and around the thyrsos pole.
         
         
        Every aspect of the ship/chariot of Dionysos is a constellation, as Titian understood.
         

        Andis Kaulins <AKaulins@...> wrote:
        Let me say that I generally agree with F. Graham Millar, who was a perspicacious intellect, that the Biblical story of David and Goliath reflects an ancient tale of the stars (see LexiLine.com at http://www.lexiline .com/lexiline/ lexi21.htm et seq.). It may or may not also reflect a later historical event - but that is not the issue here at the moment.

        Millar identifes David with Bootes, his sling with Corona Borealis and Goliath with Orion.

        Based on the name information provided to the LexiLine list by Keith Davis, which makes plausible the equating of David with Dayyad and the Assyrian Hercules, we actually do get a better fit in terms of the shape of the stellar constellations, since this would mean that David was originally Hercules (+ Ophiuchus, an interpretation also possible by Millar's own analysis), Bootes the sling, and Corona Borealis the stone for the sling.

        The simplest connection to Orion is that as the stars of Orion set in the sky, the stars of Hercules rise in the sky on the other side of the horizon. These are "rival" stars. David is in this manner the eternal opponent of Goliath (Orion) in the heavens.

        As written by Arif Babul :

        "[T]he use of stories and poetry to remember the various constellations in the sky and their relative positions was a common feature of the Near/Middle East and Mediterranean civilizations. These stories or mnemonic devices in time became entwined with existing stories and legends or may have even taken on a life of their own (so to say), and come down to today in the form of myths ."

        We thus find the following statement in a discussion at comparative- religion. com, posted by nogodnomasters:

        "The Persians figured that Ursa Minor was the Myrobalanum (plum fruit used in dyeing), or date-palm seed or fruit, which the group stars was thought to resemble. The date palm is seen as a symbol of the world axis (or polar axis), or Tree of Life. ("The righteous shall flourish like the date palm" -Psalm 91: 12). In their Eden or Eridu as it was called the tree was called "the shrine of the two". On an Assyrian cylinder the early couple is pictured as sitting by the seven branched tree with a serpent by the woman."

        Enjoy,

        Andis

        --- In LexiLine@yahoogroup s.com, "daviservant" <daviservant@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Wikipedia states that the name Goliath is a Semitized Indo-European name.
        >
        > There is much more information on the name David. Traditionally the
        > name David is said to have been derived from Hebrew Dawidh (beloved,
        > friend), closely related to Hebrew dodh (beloved, uncle).
        >
        > In an article on the Habiru, www.reference. com suggests that Dawidh
        > may be derived from the Hurrian name Dudya (beloved of God); dud
        > (beloved), Ya (God). The Theoligical Dictionary of the Old Testament
        > Volume III, page 143 compares the Hebrew word for love (w/ydd) to the
        > Hurrian word for love (tat).
        >
        > In another article on David, www.reference. com says that King David
        > was the pharoah Psusennes II. This pharoah had a star symbol similar
        > to the Star of David. Dawidh is said to be derived from the Egyptian
        > word djuat (star).
        >
        > Some people have suggested that Dawidh comes from the name Toth but
        > this theory has no substantial support and is very unlikely.
        >
        > The Lexicon Totius Latinatus Volume V, Onamasticon, page 463 and the
        > Thesaurus Linguae Latinae, Supplementum Nomina Propria Latina, Volume
        > III, page 60 both state that David derives both from Hebrew dodh
        > (beloved) as well as from Hebrew day (strong) yad (hand). They cite
        > the works of two bishops Augustinus (4th century) and Faustus (5th
        > century, as well as Psalm 34 for the origin day yad. Psalm 34
        > commemorates the incident described in 1 Samuel 21:10 when David
        > (Dawidh) was trying to hide among his enemies at Gath. When he was
        > recognized by some people he pretended to be insane so that the king
        > would send him away. Is it possible that Dawidh called himself Dayyad
        > to trick his enemies?
        >
        > I checked the name Dayyad. Dayyad the Hunter was a sort of mythical
        > Assyrian Hercules. Could the myth of Dayyad the Hunter be the basis
        > for the legend of David and Goliath? Anyway, it is fairly common for
        > one name to have two or more origins. Dayyad could have assimilated to
        > the name Dawidh over a period of time.
        >
        > Keith Davis
        >


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      • Keith Davis
        Dr. Kaulins, Thank you very much for your reply. Thanks to your insights a much clearer picture is beginning to emerge for me. Keith Andis Kaulins
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 3, 2006
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          Dr. Kaulins, Thank you very much for your reply. Thanks to your insights a much clearer picture is beginning to emerge for me.
          Keith

          Andis Kaulins <AKaulins@...> wrote:
          Let me say that I generally agree with F. Graham Millar, who was a perspicacious intellect, that the Biblical story of David and Goliath reflects an ancient tale of the stars (see LexiLine.com at http://www.lexiline .com/lexiline/ lexi21.htm et seq.). It may or may not also reflect a later historical event - but that is not the issue here at the moment.

          Millar identifes David with Bootes, his sling with Corona Borealis and Goliath with Orion.

          Based on the name information provided to the LexiLine list by Keith Davis, which makes plausible the equating of David with Dayyad and the Assyrian Hercules, we actually do get a better fit in terms of the shape of the stellar constellations, since this would mean that David was originally Hercules (+ Ophiuchus, an interpretation also possible by Millar's own analysis), Bootes the sling, and Corona Borealis the stone for the sling.

          The simplest connection to Orion is that as the stars of Orion set in the sky, the stars of Hercules rise in the sky on the other side of the horizon. These are "rival" stars. David is in this manner the eternal opponent of Goliath (Orion) in the heavens.

          As written by Arif Babul :

          "[T]he use of stories and poetry to remember the various constellations in the sky and their relative positions was a common feature of the Near/Middle East and Mediterranean civilizations. These stories or mnemonic devices in time became entwined with existing stories and legends or may have even taken on a life of their own (so to say), and come down to today in the form of myths ."

          We thus find the following statement in a discussion at comparative- religion. com, posted by nogodnomasters:

          "The Persians figured that Ursa Minor was the Myrobalanum (plum fruit used in dyeing), or date-palm seed or fruit, which the group stars was thought to resemble. The date palm is seen as a symbol of the world axis (or polar axis), or Tree of Life. ("The righteous shall flourish like the date palm" -Psalm 91: 12). In their Eden or Eridu as it was called the tree was called "the shrine of the two". On an Assyrian cylinder the early couple is pictured as sitting by the seven branched tree with a serpent by the woman."

          Enjoy,

          Andis

          --- In LexiLine@yahoogroup s.com, "daviservant" <daviservant@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Wikipedia states that the name Goliath is a Semitized Indo-European name.
          >
          > There is much more information on the name David. Traditionally the
          > name David is said to have been derived from Hebrew Dawidh (beloved,
          > friend), closely related to Hebrew dodh (beloved, uncle).
          >
          > In an article on the Habiru, www.reference. com suggests that Dawidh
          > may be derived from the Hurrian name Dudya (beloved of God); dud
          > (beloved), Ya (God). The Theoligical Dictionary of the Old Testament
          > Volume III, page 143 compares the Hebrew word for love (w/ydd) to the
          > Hurrian word for love (tat).
          >
          > In another article on David, www.reference. com says that King David
          > was the pharoah Psusennes II. This pharoah had a star symbol similar
          > to the Star of David. Dawidh is said to be derived from the Egyptian
          > word djuat (star).
          >
          > Some people have suggested that Dawidh comes from the name Toth but
          > this theory has no substantial support and is very unlikely.
          >
          > The Lexicon Totius Latinatus Volume V, Onamasticon, page 463 and the
          > Thesaurus Linguae Latinae, Supplementum Nomina Propria Latina, Volume
          > III, page 60 both state that David derives both from Hebrew dodh
          > (beloved) as well as from Hebrew day (strong) yad (hand). They cite
          > the works of two bishops Augustinus (4th century) and Faustus (5th
          > century, as well as Psalm 34 for the origin day yad. Psalm 34
          > commemorates the incident described in 1 Samuel 21:10 when David
          > (Dawidh) was trying to hide among his enemies at Gath. When he was
          > recognized by some people he pretended to be insane so that the king
          > would send him away. Is it possible that Dawidh called himself Dayyad
          > to trick his enemies?
          >
          > I checked the name Dayyad. Dayyad the Hunter was a sort of mythical
          > Assyrian Hercules. Could the myth of Dayyad the Hunter be the basis
          > for the legend of David and Goliath? Anyway, it is fairly common for
          > one name to have two or more origins. Dayyad could have assimilated to
          > the name Dawidh over a period of time.
          >
          > Keith Davis
          >


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