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Immoral thoughts/was Re: [LeftLibertarian2] The cure pedophilia just a lobotomy away?

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  • Dan
    Would there be an internalist vs. externalist view here? Internally, I might not have control over one specific thought, but maybe a train of thoughts, such
    Message 1 of 45 , Apr 22 6:33 AM
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      Would there be an internalist vs. externalist view here? Internally, I might not have control over one specific thought, but maybe a train of thoughts, such that if I keep going down a path, I might judge that path to be moral or immoral, but not the starting point.

      Regards,

      Dan

      From: Roderick Long <berserkrl@...>
      To: "LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com" <LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 2:08 AM
      Subject: Re: [LeftLibertarian2] The cure pedophilia just a lobotomy away?

       
      To virtue theorists the claim that thoughts can't be immoral looks rather strange.  Thoughts can be mental actions, or the products of actions.  They are also the nursery of external actions.  And they express character.

      R.

      From: Joshua Katz <jalankatz@...>
      To: leftlibertarian2 <LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [LeftLibertarian2] The cure pedophilia just a lobotomy away?

      Well, perhaps with the exception of the thought that thoughts are immoral.


      On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Roderick Long <berserkrl@...> wrote:
       
      > thoughts are not immoral

      Why not?

      R.


      From: Joshua Katz <jalankatz@...>
      To: leftlibertarian2 <LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 3:07 AM
      Subject: Re: [LeftLibertarian2] The cure pedophilia just a lobotomy away?



      Well, this seems odd.  Most of his issues seem not to involve children at all.  Also, he was convicted and sentenced without actually molesting a child, according to the story - unless we can now say that 'subtle advances' is specific enough to prosecute.

      Also, we need to be careful that we only punish those who do actions that harm others - the term pedophilia would also include simply wanting to, but not.  Similarly, I don't see how this can be a neurology of morality issue - thoughts are not immoral, acting on them may be.

      It sounds to me more like a lot of sexual desire and very low inhibition, not a 'pedophilia zone' as the article claims.



    • Dan
      Fine essay. By the way, there s a typo here: Let’s consider, then, whether we can do better than the Unity and Overcoming concetions. Note the last word
      Message 45 of 45 , Apr 26 8:34 PM
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        Fine essay.

        By the way, there's a typo here:

        "Let’s consider, then, whether we can do better than the Unity and Overcoming concetions."

        Note the last word in that sentence.

        By the way, regarding the counterfactuals, would therein lie a role for tragedy (and maybe art in general) for Aristotle? I mean, at least, in the way some interpret Aristotle's view of catharsis -- as in fine-tuning emotional responses. (I know this isn't the only interpretation of catharsis.)

        Regarding your example of breaking bad news, have you seen the 2009 Oren Moverman film "The Messenger"?

        Regards,

        Dan

        From: Roderick Long <berserkrl@...>
        To: "LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com" <LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 1:39 PM
        Subject: Re: Immoral thoughts/was Re: [LeftLibertarian2] The cure pedophilia just a lobotomy away?

         
        > I'm very skeptical that this is a rational position - that one could
        > be judged immoral for every stray thought or fantasy.

        But that's not what I said, right?  (And see Dan's comments below.)

        > I think a good case could be made that a person who had some bad
        > thoughts/fantasies, but never acted on them (in accordance with his
        > moral code) might be *more* moral.

        On that, see this:

        http://praxeology.net/Temptation-and-Easy-Virtue-pdf.pdf

        R.

        From: J Olson <jlolson53@...>
        To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:49 AM
        Subject: Re: Immoral thoughts/was Re: [LeftLibertarian2] The cure pedophilia just a lobotomy away?

        Gosh, I'd hate see what these people think about dreams...  Eerrch.

        I'm very skeptical that this is a rational position - that one could be judged immoral for every stray thought or fantasy.  It sounds more like a Baptist minister than a philosopher.  In fact, I think a good case could be made that a person who had some bad thoughts/fantasies, but never acted on them (in accordance with his moral code) might be *more* moral.

        Jeff

        On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Dan <dan_ust@...> wrote: 
        Would there be an internalist vs. externalist view here? Internally, I might not have control over one specific thought, but maybe a train of thoughts, such that if I keep going down a path, I might judge that path to be moral or immoral, but not the starting point.

        Regards,

        Dan

        From: Roderick Long <berserkrl@...>
        To: "LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com" <LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 2:08 AM
        Subject: Re: [LeftLibertarian2] The cure pedophilia just a lobotomy away?

         
        To virtue theorists the claim that thoughts can't be immoral looks rather strange.  Thoughts can be mental actions, or the products of actions.  They are also the nursery of external actions.  And they express character.

        R.
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