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RE: Jeff and Harry/was RE: [LeftLibertarian2] RE: Harry's view of entrepreneurship

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  • Harry Pollard
    He called me an old nitwit, so I had at him in provocative and, I hope, humorous fashion. I too doubt he ll react. Harry ******************************* Harry
    Message 1 of 36 , Oct 1, 2008
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      He called me an old nitwit, so I had at him in provocative and, I hope, humorous fashion.

       

      I too doubt he'll react.

       

      Harry

       

      *******************************

      Harry Pollard

      Henry George School of Los Angeles

      Box 655  

      Tujunga  CA 91042

      (818) 352-4141

      *******************************

       

       

      From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ust
      Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:10 AM
      To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Jeff and Harry/was RE: [LeftLibertarian2] RE: Harry's view of entrepreneurship

       

      Does Harry believe Jeff (or anyone here) is doing things because he believes it's not right to do them?  Does Harry feel (or anyone here) requires "reinforcement from others"?

       

      From tangling with Jeff on other lists, I don't think he's an "old nitwit."  (Chronologically, I get the idea he is older than me, but younger than Harry.  That's a wide range and not relevant to who's the nitwit here.:)  I also doubt Harry "wipe the floor with him," but I'd love to see him try.  My guess is, however, Jeff won't take Harry's provocation as an invitation.

       

      I also didn't see Jeff's complaint as hiding or crying for help.  I'd guess Jeff is wondering why anyone is still debating with Harry when he [Jeff] feels there are more productive discussions to have.  Jeff can, of course, let us know what he wonders.

       

      Later!

       

      Dan

      --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Harry Pollard <henrygeorgeschool@...> wrote:

      I do things because I believe it's right to do them. I don't require reinforcement from others.

       

      Jeff probably doesn't post because he knows this "old nitwit" will probably wipe the floor with him

       

      So he hides and cries for help.

       

      Harry

       

      *******************************

      Harry Pollard

      Henry George School of Los Angeles

      Box 655  

      Tujunga  CA 91042

      (818) 352-4141

      *******************************

       

       

      From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ust
      Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:47 PM
      To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [LeftLibertarian2] RE: Harry's view of entrepreneurship

       

      What's wrong with "whining for others to join him"?

       

      For the record, I would like to see Jeff Olson contribute more to the list.

       

      Later!

       

      Dan

      --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Harry Pollard <henrygeorgeschool@...> wrote:

      What happened to an individual doing his own boycotting if he wants to, without whining for others to join him?

       

      Harry

       

      *******************************

      Harry Pollard

      Henry George School of Los Angeles

      Box 655  

      Tujunga  CA 91042

      (818) 352-4141

      *******************************

       

       

      From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Olson
      Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:26 AM
      To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [LeftLibertarian2] RE: Harry's view of entrepreneurship

       

      Whatever happened to the highly meritorious proposed boycott of this old nitwit?

       

      Jeff Olson

       

      818) 352-4141

       

       

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    • Dan Ust
      Sometimes it s bad to be right in predicting.  I predicted Harry Pollard would avoid answering two clear questions.  He lived up to my expectations, sadly.*
      Message 36 of 36 , Oct 16, 2008
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        Sometimes it's bad to be right in predicting.  I predicted Harry Pollard would avoid answering two clear questions.  He lived up to my expectations, sadly.*
         
        What I'm trying to understand, truly, is in just what Harry Pollard believes Kurt's valid point is and how it applies -- and how it differs from the point I made earlier (though I'm hardly original on this) about Georgism suffering a calculational problem akin to socialism.  In fact, I thought -- and perhaps Kurt can correct me -- that Kurt and I agree on the same point.
         
        Naturally, I wanted to see if Harry could muster enough intellectual honesty to admit that this is the same point.  After that, perhaps he and I could have a reasonable and open discussion of the calculation problem facing Georgism.  Maybe this would be, as I think, a fatal blow to Georgism.  Maybe not.
         
        Now, given that Harry appears to be dodging again, perhaps he can tell why he believes it is legitimate and not legitimate to have doubts.  Granted, he's talking about different people.  I reckon one way he could answer this is that Kurt is ignorant of Harry's means of overcoming the doubts.  Maybe Harry could give the details of how he's overcome doubts in this area.  Maybe he could come back with another one-liner like "Easily" -- one that reveals little more than Harry's smug indifference to rational discourse.
         
        I do understand how silly it is to pretend to have a clear discussion with Harry.  Getting him to answer simple questions with clear, concise answers is like herding cats.  Yet I trudge on...
         
        Later!
         
        Dan
         
        *  The questions were given in this passage:
         
        'Again, what is this "logical, well-founded" "point about calculation" Kurt makes?
        I anticipate Harry will avoid answering this.
         
        'Also, and again, is it any different from the socialist calculation problem I raised earlier?'

        --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Harry Pollard <henrygeorgeschool@...> wrote:

        Dan,

         

        I really believe you don't understand how silly this is.

         

        Maybe you have nothing better to do.

         

        You play word games and say I do.

         

        It is quite "legitimate" (valid) for Kurt to have doubts.

         

        Just as it is quite "legitimate" (valid) for me not to have doubts.

         

        Now, enough of this. Try to do something constructive.

         

        Harry

         

        *******************************

        Harry Pollard

        Henry George School of Los Angeles

        Box 655  

        Tujunga  CA 91042

        (818) 352-4141

        *******************************

         

         

        From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ust
        Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 8:41 PM
        To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [LeftLibertarian2] RE: Calculational chaos under Georgism

         

         

        Let me rephrase my question:

         

        Again, what is this "logical, well-founded" "point about calculation" Kurt makes?

        I anticipate Harry will avoid answering this.

         

        Also, and again, is it any different from the socialist calculation problem I raised earlier?

         

        Later!

         

        Dan


        --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Harry Pollard <henrygeorgeschool@...> wrote:

        All depends by what you mean by mean.

         

        valid

        adj. legitimate, legally acceptable, not expired; based; logical, well-founded

         

         

        Harry

         

        *******************************

        Harry Pollard

        Henry George School of Los Angeles

        Box 655  

        Tujunga  CA 91042

        (818) 352-4141

        *******************************

         

         

        From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ust
        Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:17 PM
        To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [LeftLibertarian2] RE: Calculational chaos under Georgism

         

        I see that Harry wishes to continue the word games.

        What does Harry mean by "valid" here?  Usually, when people say something is a "valid point," they are accepting it as relevant and true.  What does Harry mean by "valid point"?

        Again, what is this "valid point about calculation" Kurt makes?

        Again, is it any different from the socialist calculation problem I raised earlier?

        Later!

        Dan

        --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Harry Pollard <henrygeorgeschool@...> wrote:

        Kurt makes a valid point. He thinks there is a calculation problem.

         

        My point is also valid. I don't think there is a calculation problem.

         

        Are we now going into a long drawn out discussion of validity?

         

        Harry

         

        *******************************

        Harry Pollard

        Henry George School of Los Angeles

        Box 655  

        Tujunga  CA 91042

        (818) 352-4141

        *******************************

         

         

        From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ust
        Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:39 AM
        To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [LeftLibertarian2] RE: Calculational chaos under Georgism

         

        And what is this "valid point about calculation" Kurt makes?  Is it any different from the socialist calculation problem I raised earlier?

         

        Also, wouldn't a "valid point about calculation" call into question Harry's statement that what he knows "of valuation in practice, [he doesn't] think there is a problem. Valuation of land is very good."  It's hard to understand how both Kurt and he can have equally valid points on the same matter -- especially when their views seem mutually exclusive here.

         

        Later!

         

        Dan

        --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Harry Pollard <henrygeorgeschool@...> wrote:

        I think that Kurt has a valid point about calculation. He thinks there may be a problem.

         

        From what I know of valuation in practice, I don't think there is a problem. Valuation of land is very good.

         

        Using the Danish system of per square meter valuations rather than lot valuations provides the ability directly to compare all valuations - a first-class check on both chicanery and incompetence.

         

        My point is valid too.

         

        Keep trying! Don't be deterred by failure.

         

        Harry

         

         

        *******************************

        Harry Pollard

        Henry George School of Los Angeles

        Box 655  

        Tujunga  CA 91042

        (818) 352-4141

        *******************************

         

         

        From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ust
        Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:19 PM
        To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Calculational chaos under Georgism/was RE: [LeftLibertarian2] Re: Harry's view of entrepreneurship

         

        Does this mean Harry agrees with Kurt that there will be "calculation problems" in a rent-collecting [Georgist] society -- presumably ones that would not exist in a non-Georgist one?

         

        Or is this yet another time where Harry gives a one liner while ignoring the substance of what he's responding to?

         

        Later!

         

        Dan

        --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Harry Pollard <henrygeorgeschool@...> wrote:

        A perfectly valid point!

         

        Harry

         

        *******************************

        Harry Pollard

        Henry George School of Los Angeles

        Box 655  

        Tujunga  CA 91042

        (818) 352-4141

        *******************************

         

         

        From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kurtjhorner
        Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:59 PM
        To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [LeftLibertarian2] Re: Harry's view of entrepreneurship

         


        Yeah, I suppose I should apologize for beating a dead horse.  At this point I am fairly well convinced that a rent-collecting society, whether it violates rights or not (and it doesn't have to), will suffer from calculation problems regardless.

        OK, I'm done.

        - Kurt


        --- In LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Olson <jlolson53@...> wrote:
        >
        > Whatever happened to the highly meritorious proposed boycott of this old nitwit?
        >
        > Jeff Olson

         

         
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