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Re: The working class and the employing class have nothing in common (was Re: [LeftLibertarian2] Re: "Propertarians" and Statists)

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  • dean tuckerman
    Ver-r-y Interesting! But (and i know this is a different issue), how does it work on a macro-level? ... Ver-r-y Interesting! But (and i know this is a
    Message 1 of 148 , Jul 31, 2008
      Ver-r-y Interesting! But (and i know this is a different issue), how does it work on a macro-level?
      On Jul 31, 2008, at 6:55 PM, michael.h.wilson@... wrote:

      Below are two companies that seem to have done away with much of the traditional corporate structure.


      http://www.fastcomp any.com/magazine /98/wikn. html

      The maker of Gore-Tex fabrics has such a low-key culture that even its corporate 
      Web site has no indication that a new CEO started there in April. Kelly, 42, is 
      the mother of four children, ages 5 to 13. She has spent her entire 22-year 
      career at Gore since receiving her bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering a 
      few miles away at the University of Delaware. She talks about being the CEO of a 
      company that's famous for having no hierarchy or bosses. 

      http://www.good2wor k.com/article/ 5636

      Semler has let his employees set the terms of their employment: hours, salaries, wages, even their office technology. Semco’s transition to a democratic workplace took nearly five years. 

    • Harry Pollard
      Minimum wage is a countervailing privilege designed to keep the proles happy. Then, they will stop protesting the privileges that are screwing them and turn
      Message 148 of 148 , Aug 5, 2008

        Minimum wage is a “countervailing privilege” designed to keep the proles happy.


        Then, they will stop protesting the privileges that are screwing them and turn their attention to the countervailing privilege. Soon, the “important” question is just how much the minimum wage should be.




        From: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rad Geek
        Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:39 PM
        To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Minimum wage gradualism (was Re: [LeftLibertarian2] Re: "Propertarians" and Statists)


        > --- In LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com

        > <mailto:LeftLibertarian2%40yahoogroups.com>,
        Roderick Long
        > <berserkrl@...> wrote:

        >> But okay, here's a substantive topic other than land where I
        >> disagree with Kevin: I take it that Kevin thinks that, as things
        >> stand, repealing minimum wage laws would be worse than keeping
        >> them. Now I do agree with Kevin that whether repealing regulation
        >> X counts as genuine move toward freedom or not often depends on
        >> whether regulation Y is repealed at the same time (for example, if
        >> a business is on the receiving end of both state- granted
        >> privileges and state-imposed regulations, repealing the regulations
        >> while leaving the privileges in place is not necessarily a move
        >> toward freedom, since what's being deregulated is to some extent,
        >> tanks to the privileges, an arm of the state); but I just don't see
        >> how that consideration applies to the case of minimum wage.

        quasibill wrote:

        > I followed that exchange between Kevin and Charles and remember
        > coming to the conclusion (IIRC) that Charles had the slightly better
        > end of it, but that it wasn't so clear that I thought Kevin was
        > categorically wrong. Perhaps it's just an instance where there is no
        > good answer, given the fundamentally distorted nature of the current
        > market.

        For reference, the discussion on minimum wage laws began here:

        And also continued onto my blog here:

        For what it's worth, I think that Kevin and I largely or perhaps
        entirely agree on questions of strategic priorities (e.g., what policies
        to attack first, hardest, and most often). The disagreement, to the
        extent that there is one, has to do with the moral question of
        gradualism vs. immediatism; i.e., what you ought to do or to say in the
        (unlikely) circumstances that you were somehow given the opportunity to,
        say, repeal all minimum wage laws immediately, while everything else
        would remain the same. I don't think this affects anything by way of
        real-world strategy, because I think there's no reason to expect such a
        situation would ever arise, but it may affect some things about, say,
        one's choice of arguments, and the rhetorical stance that one takes when
        talking with people who get things only half right, for example
        "Progressive" reformists or Catoid pro-capitalist libetarians.


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