Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Stare and remanere as "copula verbs"

Expand Messages
  • Peter
    Are the verbs stare and remanere used as so called copular or linking verbs with the subject and an adjective? Can one say: Portae urbis steterunt
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 16, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Are the verbs "stare" and "remanere" used as so called "copular" or
      "linking verbs" with the subject and an adjective?

      Can one say:

      "Portae urbis steterunt clausae multos dies ut urbs bene defenderetur"

      "Milites debent stare taciti (or silentes) ante duces"

      In the first sentence could remanere be subsitutued for stare as in
      English we can say either "The gates stood/stayed closed" or "The
      gates remained closed".

      Is their ambiguity in using esse as a copuar verb with apertus and
      clausus in sentences such as "Finestra est aperta" which could mean
      either "The window is open" or "The window was opened/ Someone opened
      the window" ?

      Peter
    • chjones60056
      ... defenderetur ... Remanere is used in this way in good prose, e.g. Caesar describes how his army rebuilt a bridge previously knocked down by
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 18, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pkoden69@...> wrote:
        >
        > Are the verbs "stare" and "remanere" used as so called "copular" or
        > "linking verbs" with the subject and an adjective?
        >
        > Can one say:
        >
        > "Portae urbis steterunt clausae multos dies ut urbs bene
        defenderetur"
        >
        > "Milites debent stare taciti (or silentes) ante duces"
        >
        > In the first sentence could remanere be subsitutued for stare as in
        > English we can say either "The gates stood/stayed closed" or "The
        > gates remained closed".

        "Remanere" is used in this way in good prose, e.g. Caesar describes
        how his army rebuilt a bridge previously knocked down by
        Vercingetorix; he was able to do this "isdem sublicis (pilings),
        quarum pars inferior integra remanebat."

        I haven't found similar citations for "sto" with clear adjectival
        predicates or infinitives. L&S does cite Lucretius V.199, where the
        poet--in claiming that the world was not created by gods--says
        ironically "(natura) tanta stat praedita culpa" ("nature stands
        provided with such fault"). Here stet is almost equivalent to est,
        but this is poetic and about the best we can do for this usage.

        In general the literal sense of this word--"stand"--is never too far
        away. My guess is a phrase like "Portae urbis steterunt clausae"
        would be OK since the doors temselves are literally standing
        upright. The second I think is also OK, though it implies the
        soldiers are literally standing silent, not merely "remaining" silent
        (i.e. while the slept or sat on the ground).

        > Is their ambiguity in using esse as a copuar verb with apertus and
        > clausus in sentences such as "Finestra est aperta" which could mean
        > either "The window is open" or "The window was opened/ Someone
        opened
        > the window" ?

        The sentence by itself is ambiguous, but a similar ambiguity occurs
        sometimes in English. Does "The window is closed" mean the window
        is "being closed" right now, or that it has been closed in the past
        and remains so now? If it's necessary to clarify, a word like "jam"
        should be added or the sentence reconstructed (given context) using a
        different verb, e.g. "fenestram apertam video"
      • Peter
        I want to clarify my sentence on the soldiers standing silent before the leaders. I was referring to the fact that soldiers often stand still and quiet before
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 19, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          I want to clarify my sentence on the soldiers standing silent before
          the leaders. I was referring to the fact that soldiers often stand
          still and quiet before a military leader who is addressing them. That
          happens today when a commander speaks to them before going into
          battle. That is why I used "stare" instead of "remanere" to emphasize
          that not only are they supposed to be standing at attention before
          the leader but also must be silent.

          Peter
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.