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Adj. agreement with 1st decl. masc. nouns

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  • M.O.
    I feel really stupid for having to ask this, but I haven t actually been able to confirm the right answer in the grammar books.... There are a few nouns of the
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 5, 2007
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      I feel really stupid for having to ask this, but I
      haven't actually been able to confirm the right answer
      in the grammar books....

      There are a few nouns of the first declension which
      are masculine, such as nauta, sailor, and agricola,
      farmer. Adjectives should agree with their noun in
      number, case, and gender.

      Therefore, we would say (in the nominative, singular)
      agricola bonus
      not
      agricola bona.

      Correct?
      I just haven't been able to fish up an explicit
      mention of the rule, or an example from a text.

      Gratias vobis ago
      --Marcus Albus Scotus




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    • Lisa Brown
      Salve, Si vales, gaudeo. ego valeo recte. There is no need to feel stupid. Agricola Bonus is correct. Agricola magnus Agricola stultus Nauta malus Nauta iratus
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 5, 2007
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        Salve,
        Si vales, gaudeo. ego valeo recte. There is no
        need to feel stupid. Agricola Bonus is correct.

        Agricola magnus
        Agricola stultus

        Nauta malus
        Nauta iratus

        Poeta benignus
        Poeta novus

        Here is a useful reference:
        About.com Ancient/Classical History-Latin Adjectives
        for Masculine 1st Declension
        http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/adjectivesadverbs/qt/adj1stdeclm.htm

        If I am wrong please don't hesitate to correct me.
        I have had only one semester of Latin. I'm reluctantly
        sitting out this semester because I must concentrate
        on Algebra (bane of my existence!). Latin tempts me
        too much. I'd far rather study Latin.

        Vale,
        Lisa

        --- "M.O." <culebra.geo@...> wrote:
        >
        > There are a few nouns of the first declension which
        > are masculine, such as nauta, sailor, and agricola,
        > farmer. Adjectives should agree with their noun in
        > number, case, and gender.
        >
        > Therefore, we would say (in the nominative,
        > singular)
        > agricola bonus
        > not
        > agricola bona.
        >
        > Correct?




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      • ludovicianensis
        ... AGRICOLA BONUS it is. Please notice also FAGUS SILVATICA. =wild beech tree.
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 5, 2007
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          --- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "M.O." <culebra.geo@...> wrote:
          >

          AGRICOLA BONUS it is. Please notice also FAGUS SILVATICA. =wild
          beech tree.







          > I feel really stupid for having to ask this, but I
          > haven't actually been able to confirm the right answer
          > in the grammar books....
          >
          > There are a few nouns of the first declension which
          > are masculine, such as nauta, sailor, and agricola,
          > farmer. Adjectives should agree with their noun in
          > number, case, and gender.
          >
          > Therefore, we would say (in the nominative, singular)
          > agricola bonus
          > not
          > agricola bona.
          >
          > Correct?
          > I just haven't been able to fish up an explicit
          > mention of the rule, or an example from a text.
          >
          > Gratias vobis ago
          > --Marcus Albus Scotus
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
          > with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
          > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
          >
        • Liz Parkinson
          Oh for a page of Algebra. I LOVE algebra. Latin I am learning because I need it to register for a PhD in Medieval History. I do like it, but prefer
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 6, 2007
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            Oh for a page of Algebra. I LOVE algebra. Latin I am learning because I
            need it to register for a PhD in Medieval History. I do like it, but
            prefer algebra. Or root canal work ...

            Liz



            I'm reluctantly
            > sitting out this semester because I must concentrate
            >on Algebra (bane of my existence!). Latin tempts me
            >too much. I'd far rather study Latin.
            >
            >Vale,
            > Lisa
            >
            >--- "M.O." <culebra.geo@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > There are a few nouns of the first declension which
            > > are masculine, such as nauta, sailor, and agricola,
            > > farmer. Adjectives should agree with their noun in
            > > number, case, and gender.
            > >
            > > Therefore, we would say (in the nominative,
            > > singular)
            > > agricola bonus
            > > not
            > > agricola bona.
            > >
            > > Correct?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >____________________________________________________________________________________
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            >Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
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            >
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            >

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          • DavidFuer@aol.com
            I used Latin years ago to fulfill one of two research skill requirements for a Ph.D. in communication studies. But I only really used Latin during my junior
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 6, 2007
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              I used Latin years ago to fulfill one of two research skill requirements for
              a Ph.D. in communication studies. But I only really used Latin during my
              junior year of college to study primary sources in Medieval philosophy. I also
              have to admit that I'm one of those who prefer algebra to Latin. Root
              canals I could do without. The only advantage is that with root canals the period
              of pain is shorter! :)

              David


              >>Oh for a page of Algebra. I LOVE algebra. Latin I am learning because I
              >>need it to register for a PhD in Medieval History. I do like it, but
              >>prefer algebra. Or root canal work ...

              >>Liz



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • M.O.
              Thanks! I was cust going crazy because I couldn t find an actual citation. Thanks also for the eminder about fagus. ...
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 6, 2007
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                Thanks! I was cust going crazy because I couldn't
                find an actual citation. Thanks also for the eminder
                about fagus.

                --- ludovicianensis <ludovicianensis@...> wrote:

                > --- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "M.O."
                > <culebra.geo@...> wrote:
                > >
                >
                > AGRICOLA BONUS it is. Please notice also FAGUS
                > SILVATICA. =wild
                > beech tree.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > > I feel really stupid for having to ask this, but I
                > > haven't actually been able to confirm the right
                > answer
                > > in the grammar books....
                > >
                > > There are a few nouns of the first declension
                > which
                > > are masculine, such as nauta, sailor, and
                > agricola,
                > > farmer. Adjectives should agree with their noun
                > in
                > > number, case, and gender.
                > >
                > > Therefore, we would say (in the nominative,
                > singular)
                > > agricola bonus
                > > not
                > > agricola bona.
                > >
                > > Correct?
                > > I just haven't been able to fish up an explicit
                > > mention of the rule, or an example from a text.
                > >
                > > Gratias vobis ago
                > > --Marcus Albus Scotus
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the
                > forecast
                > > with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                > >
                > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
                > >
                >
                >
                >




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              • Liz Parkinson
                I like the language, I just do not like the Classical Literature much. I find Virgil absolutely dire. I simply dont enjoy that sort of stuff, in English,
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                  I like the language, I just do not like the Classical Literature much. I
                  find Virgil absolutely dire. I simply dont enjoy that sort of stuff, in
                  English, Latin or any or language.

                  Liz


                  >I used Latin years ago to fulfill one of two research skill requirements
                  >for
                  >a Ph.D. in communication studies. But I only really used Latin during my
                  >junior year of college to study primary sources in Medieval philosophy. I
                  >also
                  >have to admit that I'm one of those who prefer algebra to Latin. Root
                  >canals I could do without. The only advantage is that with root canals
                  >the period
                  >of pain is shorter! :)
                  >
                  >David
                  >

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                • Brian Drayton
                  So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker, usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil mold- I too am
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                    So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker,
                    usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil mold-
                    I too am unmoved by Virgil!




                    "Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                    Sent by: LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                    02/07/07 09:57 AM
                    Please respond to
                    LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com


                    To
                    LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                    cc

                    Subject
                    Re: [LatinChat-L] Adj. agreement with 1st decl. masc. nouns






                    I like the language, I just do not like the Classical Literature much. I
                    find Virgil absolutely dire. I simply dont enjoy that sort of stuff, in
                    English, Latin or any or language.

                    Liz

                    >I used Latin years ago to fulfill one of two research skill requirements
                    >for
                    >a Ph.D. in communication studies. But I only really used Latin during my
                    >junior year of college to study primary sources in Medieval philosophy. I

                    >also
                    >have to admit that I'm one of those who prefer algebra to Latin. Root
                    >canals I could do without. The only advantage is that with root canals
                    >the period
                    >of pain is shorter! :)
                    >
                    >David
                    >

                    __________________________________________________________
                    Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile.
                    http://www.msn.txt4content.com/




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Liz Parkinson
                    Ovid is better. Depending on your level, Cambridge Latin Anthology is pitched at GCSE students and has extracts in which are usually used as set texts for
                    Message 9 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                      Ovid is better. Depending on your level, Cambridge Latin Anthology is
                      pitched at GCSE students and has extracts in which are usually used as set
                      texts for GCSE - some of those are okay.

                      Personally, I like Winnie Ille Pu

                      But your Latin needs to be good to read it

                      Liz
                      >
                      >So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker,
                      >usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil mold-
                      >I too am unmoved by Virgil!
                      >
                      >

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                    • Brian Drayton
                      I enjoy Seneca s moral essays; also Erasmus s colloquies. Seneca is not as hard. Liz Parkinson Sent by:
                      Message 10 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                        I enjoy Seneca's moral essays; also Erasmus's colloquies. Seneca is not
                        as hard.



                        "Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                        Sent by: LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                        02/07/07 10:27 AM
                        Please respond to
                        LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com


                        To
                        LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                        cc

                        Subject
                        Re: [LatinChat-L] Adj. agreement with 1st decl. masc. nouns






                        Ovid is better. Depending on your level, Cambridge Latin Anthology is
                        pitched at GCSE students and has extracts in which are usually used as set

                        texts for GCSE - some of those are okay.

                        Personally, I like Winnie Ille Pu

                        But your Latin needs to be good to read it

                        Liz
                        >
                        >So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker,
                        >usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil
                        mold-
                        >I too am unmoved by Virgil!
                        >
                        >

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                        MSN Hotmail is evolving – check out the new Windows Live Mail
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                      • André Rodrigues P. Silva
                        Seneca is indeed great. Few are the people who seem to like him, though. He s nowdays usually referred to as a boring moralist. His Opus Magnum, Epistulae
                        Message 11 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                          Seneca is indeed great. Few are the people who seem to like him, though. He's nowdays usually referred to as a boring moralist. His Opus Magnum, Epistulae morales ad Lucilium is magnificent.
                          Maybe this sententia will open your appetite:

                          «Primum argumentum compositae mentis existimo consistere posse et secum morare.»

                          And now for something completely different (Monty Python in Latin would be something!): What do you all think about learning Latin following a 'modern language learning' approach ?`
                          It is said to be more pratical and straight-forward learning. As far as i'm concerned, it helps you not to give up too soon, which too often is the result of translating authors who are too difficult

                          André
                          Olissipo (Lisbon)


                          Brian Drayton <brian_drayton@...> wrote:
                          I enjoy Seneca's moral essays; also Erasmus's colloquies. Seneca is not
                          as hard.



                          "Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                          Sent by: LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                          02/07/07 10:27 AM
                          Please respond to
                          LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com


                          To
                          LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                          cc

                          Subject
                          Re: [LatinChat-L] Adj. agreement with 1st decl. masc. nouns






                          Ovid is better. Depending on your level, Cambridge Latin Anthology is
                          pitched at GCSE students and has extracts in which are usually used as set

                          texts for GCSE - some of those are okay.

                          Personally, I like Winnie Ille Pu

                          But your Latin needs to be good to read it

                          Liz
                          >
                          >So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker,
                          >usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil
                          mold-
                          >I too am unmoved by Virgil!
                          >
                          >

                          __________________________________________________________
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                          http://ideas.live.com




                          Yahoo! Groups Links






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                        • ludovicianensis
                          I know what you mean about Vergil---there s government propaganda woven into the stories; reminds me of the films made during WWII. Maybe you should try
                          Message 12 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                            I know what you mean about Vergil---there's government propaganda
                            woven into the stories; reminds me of the films made during WWII.
                            Maybe you should try Apuleus; no propaganda there. Livy is
                            interesting although you can tell he's difinitely proud to be a Roman.
                            I find the letters of Cicero much more interesting than the orations;
                            students are usually given the speeches to read. Apuleus is one of my
                            favorite writers of all time ancient or modern.




                            --- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > I like the language, I just do not like the Classical Literature
                            much. I
                            > find Virgil absolutely dire. I simply dont enjoy that sort of
                            stuff, in
                            > English, Latin or any or language.
                            >
                            > Liz
                            >
                            >
                            > >I used Latin years ago to fulfill one of two research skill
                            requirements
                            > >for
                            > >a Ph.D. in communication studies. But I only really used Latin
                            during my
                            > >junior year of college to study primary sources in Medieval
                            philosophy. I
                            > >also
                            > >have to admit that I'm one of those who prefer algebra to Latin. Root
                            > >canals I could do without. The only advantage is that with root
                            canals
                            > >the period
                            > >of pain is shorter! :)
                            > >
                            > >David
                            > >
                            >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile.
                            > http://www.msn.txt4content.com/
                            >
                          • Liz Parkinson
                            I will give APelus a try. But really, I prefer the Medieval stuff Liz ... _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News,
                            Message 13 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                              I will give APelus a try.

                              But really, I prefer the Medieval stuff

                              Liz


                              >I know what you mean about Vergil---there's government propaganda
                              >woven into the stories; reminds me of the films made during WWII.
                              >Maybe you should try Apuleus; no propaganda there. Livy is
                              >interesting although you can tell he's difinitely proud to be a Roman.
                              > I find the letters of Cicero much more interesting than the orations;
                              >students are usually given the speeches to read. Apuleus is one of my
                              >favorite writers of all time ancient or modern.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >--- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                              >wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I like the language, I just do not like the Classical Literature
                              >much. I
                              > > find Virgil absolutely dire. I simply dont enjoy that sort of
                              >stuff, in
                              > > English, Latin or any or language.
                              > >
                              > > Liz
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >I used Latin years ago to fulfill one of two research skill
                              >requirements
                              > > >for
                              > > >a Ph.D. in communication studies. But I only really used Latin
                              >during my
                              > > >junior year of college to study primary sources in Medieval
                              >philosophy. I
                              > > >also
                              > > >have to admit that I'm one of those who prefer algebra to Latin. Root
                              > > >canals I could do without. The only advantage is that with root
                              >canals
                              > > >the period
                              > > >of pain is shorter! :)
                              > > >
                              > > >David
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > _________________________________________________________________
                              > > Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile.
                              > > http://www.msn.txt4content.com/
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >

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                            • Liz Parkinson
                              thank you, I will try them - never heard of Erasmus Liz ... _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News, Sport and
                              Message 14 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                                thank you, I will try them - never heard of Erasmus

                                Liz
                                >
                                >I enjoy Seneca's moral essays; also Erasmus's colloquies. Seneca is not
                                >as hard.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >"Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                                >Sent by: LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                >02/07/07 10:27 AM
                                >Please respond to
                                >LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >To
                                >LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                >cc
                                >
                                >Subject
                                >Re: [LatinChat-L] Adj. agreement with 1st decl. masc. nouns
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Ovid is better. Depending on your level, Cambridge Latin Anthology is
                                >pitched at GCSE students and has extracts in which are usually used as set
                                >
                                >texts for GCSE - some of those are okay.
                                >
                                >Personally, I like Winnie Ille Pu
                                >
                                >But your Latin needs to be good to read it
                                >
                                >Liz
                                > >
                                > >So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker,
                                > >usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil
                                >mold-
                                > >I too am unmoved by Virgil!
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >_________________________________________________________________
                                >MSN Hotmail is evolving ��� check out the new Windows Live Mail
                                >http://ideas.live.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >

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                              • Liz Parkinson
                                HI ANdre I learnt using Cambridge Latin Project, which is fairly modern in its outlook, we learn to read and translate a piece and then the grammar follows -
                                Message 15 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                                  HI ANdre

                                  I learnt using Cambridge Latin Project, which is fairly modern in its
                                  outlook, we learn to read and translate a piece and then the grammar follows
                                  - in later books some of the translation pieces are based on Classic
                                  writers. In UK for exams you do not have to translate into Latin at all, so
                                  for the GCSE exam (which you usually sit at age 16) there is only only
                                  unseen translation from Latin to English, a little bit of Roman History (all
                                  in English) and questions about and translations of set texts - one piece of
                                  Prose and one of Poetry - usually about 200 lines long. No coursework
                                  content.

                                  I found it easy. But not any more, I am now translating "real Latin" not
                                  Latin written for the text books, and it is much harder, and I dont have the
                                  grasp of grammar I would have had if I had learnt to translate into Latin.
                                  Half the problem is, I have no clue what a pluperfect subjunctive is in
                                  English, My task this week is to write down in English what all these things
                                  are - subjunctives, infinitives, etc etc and put them on a card and keep it
                                  with me in class - I am not doing exams and so that if fine. gradually I
                                  will pick up what they all mean. As I said earllier, I have memory problems
                                  due to heavy use of pain meds, and that doesnt help. And the tutor has a
                                  sense of humour, and knows my skill level when I am well and makes
                                  allowances, and laughs when he is helping me and asks what case something is
                                  in, and I dont know so say something jokey like Samsonite or Luis Vuitton!
                                  The teenagers in the class think I am mad - and of course wouldnt ever say
                                  that to a tutor, but I am the same age as him so it is a different
                                  relationship.

                                  I was hopeless at languages at school, and my (now adult) daughters forbade
                                  me to speak foreign languages to exchange students who visited, or if we
                                  were abroad on holiday. I think it was when I announced to a lift full of
                                  French people in the Louvre that "je suis tres chaud" that they finally
                                  banned me. Although miming what a burglarly to the German exchange student
                                  we had to explain what our burglar did might have had something to do with
                                  it.

                                  Liz P

                                  >
                                  >Seneca is indeed great. Few are the people who seem to like him, though.
                                  >He's nowdays usually >
                                  > And now for something completely different (Monty Python in Latin would
                                  >be something!): What do you all think about learning Latin following a
                                  >'modern language learning' approach ?`
                                  > It is said to be more pratical and straight-forward learning. As far as
                                  >i'm concerned, it helps you not to give up too soon, which too often is the
                                  >result of translating authors who are too difficult
                                  >
                                  > Andr�
                                  > Olissipo (Lisbon)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Brian Drayton <brian_drayton@...> wrote:
                                  > I enjoy Seneca's moral essays; also Erasmus's colloquies. Seneca
                                  >is not
                                  >as hard.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >"Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                                  >Sent by: LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                  >02/07/07 10:27 AM
                                  >Please respond to
                                  >LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >To
                                  >LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                  >cc
                                  >
                                  >Subject
                                  >Re: [LatinChat-L] Adj. agreement with 1st decl. masc. nouns
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Ovid is better. Depending on your level, Cambridge Latin Anthology is
                                  >pitched at GCSE students and has extracts in which are usually used as set
                                  >
                                  >texts for GCSE - some of those are okay.
                                  >
                                  >Personally, I like Winnie Ille Pu
                                  >
                                  >But your Latin needs to be good to read it
                                  >
                                  >Liz
                                  > >
                                  > >So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker,
                                  > >usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil
                                  >mold-
                                  > >I too am unmoved by Virgil!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >__________________________________________________________
                                  >MSN Hotmail is evolving ��� check out the new Windows Live Mail
                                  >http://ideas.live.com
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                                • Liz Parkinson
                                  HI ANdre I learnt using Cambridge Latin Project, which is fairly modern in its outlook, we learn to read and translate a piece and then the grammar follows -
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Feb 7, 2007
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                                    HI ANdre

                                    I learnt using Cambridge Latin Project, which is fairly modern in its
                                    outlook, we learn to read and translate a piece and then the grammar follows
                                    - in later books some of the translation pieces are based on Classic
                                    writers. In UK for exams you do not have to translate into Latin at all, so
                                    for the GCSE exam (which you usually sit at age 16) there is only only
                                    unseen translation from Latin to English, a little bit of Roman History (all
                                    in English) and questions about and translations of set texts - one piece of
                                    Prose and one of Poetry - usually about 200 lines long. No coursework
                                    content.

                                    I found it easy. But not any more, I am now translating "real Latin" not
                                    Latin written for the text books, and it is much harder, and I dont have the
                                    grasp of grammar I would have had if I had learnt to translate into Latin.
                                    Half the problem is, I have no clue what a pluperfect subjunctive is in
                                    English, My task this week is to write down in English what all these things
                                    are - subjunctives, infinitives, etc etc and put them on a card and keep it
                                    with me in class - I am not doing exams and so that if fine. gradually I
                                    will pick up what they all mean. As I said earllier, I have memory problems
                                    due to heavy use of pain meds, and that doesnt help. And the tutor has a
                                    sense of humour, and knows my skill level when I am well and makes
                                    allowances, and laughs when he is helping me and asks what case something is
                                    in, and I dont know so say something jokey like Samsonite or Luis Vuitton!
                                    The teenagers in the class think I am mad - and of course wouldnt ever say
                                    that to a tutor, but I am the same age as him so it is a different
                                    relationship.

                                    I was hopeless at languages at school, and my (now adult) daughters forbade
                                    me to speak foreign languages to exchange students who visited, or if we
                                    were abroad on holiday. I think it was when I announced to a lift full of
                                    French people in the Louvre that "je suis tres chaud" that they finally
                                    banned me. Although miming what a burglarly to the German exchange student
                                    we had to explain what our burglar did might have had something to do with
                                    it.

                                    Liz P

                                    >
                                    >Seneca is indeed great. Few are the people who seem to like him, though.
                                    >He's nowdays usually >
                                    > And now for something completely different (Monty Python in Latin would
                                    >be something!): What do you all think about learning Latin following a
                                    >'modern language learning' approach ?`
                                    > It is said to be more pratical and straight-forward learning. As far as
                                    >i'm concerned, it helps you not to give up too soon, which too often is the
                                    >result of translating authors who are too difficult
                                    >
                                    > Andr�
                                    > Olissipo (Lisbon)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Brian Drayton <brian_drayton@...> wrote:
                                    > I enjoy Seneca's moral essays; also Erasmus's colloquies. Seneca
                                    >is not
                                    >as hard.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >"Liz Parkinson" <parkinsonliz@...>
                                    >Sent by: LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                    >02/07/07 10:27 AM
                                    >Please respond to
                                    >LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >To
                                    >LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com
                                    >cc
                                    >
                                    >Subject
                                    >Re: [LatinChat-L] Adj. agreement with 1st decl. masc. nouns
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Ovid is better. Depending on your level, Cambridge Latin Anthology is
                                    >pitched at GCSE students and has extracts in which are usually used as set
                                    >
                                    >texts for GCSE - some of those are okay.
                                    >
                                    >Personally, I like Winnie Ille Pu
                                    >
                                    >But your Latin needs to be good to read it
                                    >
                                    >Liz
                                    > >
                                    > >So one service we can render each other on this list (I am a lurker,
                                    > >usually) is sharing interesting authors that break out of the Virgil
                                    >mold-
                                    > >I too am unmoved by Virgil!
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
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                                  • M.O.
                                    I know that verbs of persuading, such as persuadeo, take the ablative, as in Orgetorix ... persuadet Castico ... ut regnum ... occuparet. [Caesar, BG1.4]
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Feb 27, 2007
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                                      I know that verbs of persuading, such as persuadeo,
                                      take the ablative, as in "Orgetorix ... persuadet
                                      Castico ... ut regnum ... occuparet." [Caesar, BG1.4]

                                      Does this go also for "doceo" ?
                                      Is it
                                      Magister docet puero linguam latinam
                                      or
                                      Magister docet puerum linguam latinam
                                      ?

                                      Also, would you say
                                      Magister docet puero/um legere
                                      ?

                                      Finally, so that in the future I can ask these
                                      questions in Latin instead of English, can someone
                                      please tell me how to say "Does the verb doceo take
                                      the ablative case?" in Latin? I think I can figure
                                      out everything except I don't know what word the
                                      ancient grammarians would have used where we in
                                      English use "take".

                                      Gratias vobis ago,
                                      Marcus Albus Scotus







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                                    • pnoniusseverus
                                      ... Actually, I m pretty sure verbs of persuasion imply the dative case. This would include verbs like: credere, impere, placere, etc. In the example you
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Feb 27, 2007
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                                        --- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "M.O." <culebra.geo@...> wrote:

                                        > I know that verbs of persuading, such as persuadeo,
                                        > take the ablative, as in "Orgetorix ... persuadet
                                        > Castico ... ut regnum ... occuparet." [Caesar, BG1.4]

                                        Actually, I'm pretty sure verbs of persuasion imply the dative
                                        case. This would include verbs like: credere, impere, placere, etc.

                                        In the example you give, "castico" (which I assume is what you are
                                        referring to) is in the ablative form. Remember that the ablative
                                        and dative are the same for 2nd declension nouns (-o).

                                        Here is a really nice .pdf file that does a great job of breaking
                                        down case usage:

                                        http://www.theaterofpompey.com/pdcs_articles/case_usages.pdf

                                        As for your your question:

                                        > Does this go also for "doceo" ?
                                        > Is it
                                        > Magister docet puero linguam latinam
                                        > or
                                        > Magister docet puerum linguam latinam
                                        > ?

                                        It should be:

                                        "Magister docet puero linguam latinam"

                                        But again, puero is in the dative (indirect object) and "linguam
                                        latinam" is the direct object and hence accusative.

                                        I hope that helps!
                                      • pnoniusseverus
                                        ... Sorry, above where I said is in the ablative form I meant to say in the ablative OR dative form. Because they have the same ending you need more
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Feb 27, 2007
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                                          --- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "pnoniusseverus"
                                          <pnoniusseverus@...> wrote:

                                          > In the example you give, "castico" (which I assume is what you are
                                          > referring to) is in the ablative form. Remember that the ablative
                                          > and dative are the same for 2nd declension nouns (-o).

                                          Sorry, above where I said "is in the ablative form" I meant to say in
                                          the ablative OR dative form. Because they have the same ending you
                                          need more information before you can determine which form it is.
                                          Sorry for any confusion.

                                          I also didn't answer your question of how to ask in latin. I have
                                          used the verb adsumere, but I do not know if that is best per se.
                                        • J. Scott Olsson
                                          Traupman s gives conjungitur. His example is This verb takes the accusative , Hoc verbum conjungitur casui accusativo . So maybe something like, Casuine
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Feb 27, 2007
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                                            Traupman's gives conjungitur. His example is "This verb takes the
                                            accusative", "Hoc verbum conjungitur casui accusativo".

                                            So maybe something like, "Casuine ablativo hoc verbum conjungitur?"

                                            pax,
                                            Scott

                                            On 2/27/07, M.O. <culebra.geo@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Finally, so that in the future I can ask these
                                            > questions in Latin instead of English, can someone
                                            > please tell me how to say "Does the verb doceo take
                                            > the ablative case?" in Latin? I think I can figure
                                            > out everything except I don't know what word the
                                            > ancient grammarians would have used where we in
                                            > English use "take".
                                            >
                                            > Gratias vobis ago,
                                            > Marcus Albus Scotus
                                            >
                                            > __________________________________________________________
                                            > Get your own web address.
                                            > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
                                            > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • M.O.
                                            Very elegant phrasing! Thanks very much! ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Feb 27, 2007
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                                              Very elegant phrasing! Thanks very much!

                                              --- "J. Scott Olsson" <olsson@...> wrote:

                                              > Traupman's gives conjungitur. His example is "This
                                              > verb takes the
                                              > accusative", "Hoc verbum conjungitur casui
                                              > accusativo".
                                              >
                                              > So maybe something like, "Casuine ablativo hoc
                                              > verbum conjungitur?"
                                              >
                                              > pax,
                                              > Scott
                                              >
                                              > On 2/27/07, M.O. <culebra.geo@...> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Finally, so that in the future I can ask these
                                              > > questions in Latin instead of English, can someone
                                              > > please tell me how to say "Does the verb doceo
                                              > take
                                              > > the ablative case?" in Latin? I think I can figure
                                              > > out everything except I don't know what word the
                                              > > ancient grammarians would have used where we in
                                              > > English use "take".
                                              > >
                                              > > Gratias vobis ago,
                                              > > Marcus Albus Scotus
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              __________________________________________________________
                                              > > Get your own web address.
                                              > > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
                                              > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                              > removed]
                                              >
                                              >




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                                            • M.O.
                                              Mea stulta culpa. I meant to say dative rather than ablative, but it was two in the morning. Anyway, thanks very much for the help. This was another of
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Feb 27, 2007
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                                                Mea stulta culpa. I meant to say dative rather than
                                                ablative, but it was two in the morning. Anyway,
                                                thanks very much for the help. This was another of
                                                those points where I thought I knew but just couldn't
                                                find the confirmation even after ransacking the
                                                grammar books.



                                                --- pnoniusseverus <pnoniusseverus@...> wrote:

                                                > --- In LatinChat-L@yahoogroups.com, "pnoniusseverus"
                                                >
                                                > <pnoniusseverus@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > In the example you give, "castico" (which I assume
                                                > is what you are
                                                > > referring to) is in the ablative form. Remember
                                                > that the ablative
                                                > > and dative are the same for 2nd declension nouns
                                                > (-o).
                                                >
                                                > Sorry, above where I said "is in the ablative form"
                                                > I meant to say in
                                                > the ablative OR dative form. Because they have the
                                                > same ending you
                                                > need more information before you can determine which
                                                > form it is.
                                                > Sorry for any confusion.
                                                >
                                                > I also didn't answer your question of how to ask in
                                                > latin. I have
                                                > used the verb adsumere, but I do not know if that is
                                                > best per se.
                                                >
                                                >




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