Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Please advise

Expand Messages
  • Iain
    Hi Desmond, Well come back. I hope you enjoy yourself wherever you have been. Best wishes Desmond Ng wrote: Dear John and Katarina,
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 25, 2004
      Citrus Punch
      Hi Desmond,
      Well come back.
       
      I hope you enjoy yourself wherever you have been.
       
      Best wishes
       
       
       Desmond Ng <desmondng_2000@...> wrote:

      Dear John and Katarina,
      Firstly, I apologize for "no show" in the past 24 days after your
      reply.
      I would also like to apologize for not making the sentence clear
      enough before posting the question.
      Anyway, I am greatful that both of you have enlightened me about
      Molly/Claire's case. BTW, It is Molly who gone bankrupt.
      Thank you.

      regards,
      Desmond

      --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Katarina Radojevic-
      Mitrovic" <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
      > Thanks John,
      >
      > Your comments are always appreciated, and you are absolutely
      right.
      > I have just wanted to stress out the fact about the sequence of
      verb
       
      Iain Ross-Macleod
      Photographer/writerPlumstead
      London.
      England
      Iain@...
      http://www.iains-images.co.uk
      fax:
      mobile:
      08701226057
      07775854739
      Add me to your address book...Want a signature like this?




      Scanned by Iain's Images with avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.

      Virus Database (VPS): 0443-3, 22/10/2004
      Tested on: 25/04/2004 14:53:43
      avast! - copyright (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software.


    • Sharron Lynn Fletcher
      Bonjour, I am not Katrina Sorry Pulie Sethunya wrote: Katarina, What is 1. sequence of tenses ? 2. verb form ? I find both sentences
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 30, 2004
        Bonjour,
        I am not Katrina
        Sorry

        Pulie Sethunya <liipalesa1@...> wrote:
        Katarina,
        What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
        2. "verb form"?
         
        I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he is 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question. Please help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
        . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.

        Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:
        Dear Desmond,
        I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is a
        lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person that
        is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
        advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of tenses,
        then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending on
        the real meaning of it.
        Let's see another example:
        She asked me, "How old are you?"
        1. I answered that I am 20.
        2. I answered that I was 20.
        Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
        person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present than
        the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
        correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
        But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged person
        isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
        answered that I was 20.

        Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
        bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and there
        is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
        (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been changed
        recently), then the correct sentence would be:
        Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
        Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
        tenses.

        Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you are
        looking for, so I may help you more.

        Regards,
        Katarina


        --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
        <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
        > Dear friends of this group,
        > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
        >
        > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please advise.
        > Thank you.
        >
        > regards,
        > Desmond Ng



        LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

        Dear Members,

        How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?

        Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

        DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
        UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message Board.

        LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

        Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions, etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.

        "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put together to form longer passages discourse analysis).

        And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often represented by some sort of alphabet.)

        NEXT, Overview continued... 

        TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

        Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

        Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

        Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
        ************************************************************************






        Do you Yahoo!?
        Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

        LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

        Dear Members,

        How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?

        Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

        DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
        UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message Board.

        LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

        Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions, etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.

        "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put together to form longer passages discourse analysis).

        And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often represented by some sort of alphabet.)

        NEXT, Overview continued... 

        TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

        Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

        Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

        Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
        ************************************************************************







        Sharron L. Fletcher

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

      • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
        Thanks John, Your comments are always appreciated, and you are absolutely right. I have just wanted to stress out the fact about the sequence of verb tenses.
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
          Thanks John,

          Your comments are always appreciated, and you are absolutely right.
          I have just wanted to stress out the fact about the sequence of verb
          tenses.
          Anyway, I hope your comments will help Desmond as well.
          Regards,
          Katarina--- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle
          <joniain@y...> wrote:
          > With the greatest of respect I wish to make an additional comment
          about the statement number 2.
          >
          > I venture to suggest that the second statement is also
          grammatically correct on any day after her 20th birthday.
          >
          > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
          > Dear Desmond,
          > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is a
          > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person that
          > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
          > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
          tenses,
          > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending on
          > the real meaning of it.
          > Let's see another example:
          > She asked me, "How old are you?"
          > 1. I answered that I am 20.
          > 2. I answered that I was 20.
          > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
          > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
          than
          > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
          > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
          > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged person
          > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
          > answered that I was 20.
          >
          > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
          > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
          there
          > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
          > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been changed
          > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
          > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
          > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
          > tenses.
          >
          > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
          are
          > looking for, so I may help you more.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Katarina
          >
          >
          > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
          > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
          > > Dear friends of this group,
          > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
          > >
          > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
          advise.
          > > Thank you.
          > >
          > > regards,
          > > Desmond Ng
          >
          >
          >
          > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
          >
          > Dear Members,
          >
          > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
          >
          > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
          by accessing the following link...
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
          >
          > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
          > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
          Board.
          >
          > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
          >
          > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
          the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
          has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
          included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
          etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
          >
          > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
          ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
          (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
          together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
          >
          > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
          physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
          that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
          listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
          represented by some sort of alphabet.)
          >
          > NEXT, Overview continued...
          >
          > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
          that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
          Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
          discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
          diversity!
          >
          > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
          http://LAMI.US
          >
          > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
          Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
          LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
          >
          *********************************************************************
          ***
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Best wishes,
          > Iain
          > Visit a fascinating site
          > www.iains-images.co.uk
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
        • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
          Dear Pulie, You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20 or as you said plus a few microseconds older . Under these circumstances it is
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
            Dear Pulie,

            You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20 or
            as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
            circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms of
            past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
            earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
            it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
            tense, as I specified.
            She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
            means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
            If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
            sentence is:
            She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
            speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
            dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
            simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
            Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
            message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
            Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so I
            will try to make things easier to be understood.

            Let's look another example:

            I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
            if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
            He said to me that he had some troubles.
            I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead of
            the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
            or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
            (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
            problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
            he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
            rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
            changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
            told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
            troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned above.
            Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
            grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
            the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
            meaning of these two terms.

            Regards,

            Katarina
            --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
            <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
            > Katarina,
            > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
            > 2. "verb form"?
            >
            > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
            says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he is
            20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
            birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question. Please
            help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
            > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
            >
            > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
            > Dear Desmond,
            > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is a
            > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person that
            > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
            > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
            tenses,
            > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending on
            > the real meaning of it.
            > Let's see another example:
            > She asked me, "How old are you?"
            > 1. I answered that I am 20.
            > 2. I answered that I was 20.
            > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
            > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
            than
            > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
            > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
            > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged person
            > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
            > answered that I was 20.
            >
            > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
            > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
            there
            > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
            > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been changed
            > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
            > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
            > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
            > tenses.
            >
            > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
            are
            > looking for, so I may help you more.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Katarina
            >
            >
            > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
            > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
            > > Dear friends of this group,
            > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
            > >
            > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
            advise.
            > > Thank you.
            > >
            > > regards,
            > > Desmond Ng
            >
            >
            >
            > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
            >
            > Dear Members,
            >
            > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
            >
            > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
            by accessing the following link...
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
            >
            > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
            > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
            Board.
            >
            > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
            >
            > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
            the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
            has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
            included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
            etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
            >
            > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
            ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
            (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
            together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
            >
            > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
            physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
            that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
            listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
            represented by some sort of alphabet.)
            >
            > NEXT, Overview continued...
            >
            > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
            that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
            Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
            discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
            diversity!
            >
            > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
            http://LAMI.US
            >
            > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
            Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
            LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
            >
            *********************************************************************
            ***
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
          • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
            Sorry Pulie, I hate when make mistakes in the examples. It has to stay: both sentences mean... It is happening. Regards, Katarina--- In
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
              Sorry Pulie,

              I hate when make mistakes in the examples. It has to stay: both
              sentences mean...
              It is happening.

              Regards,
              Katarina--- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Katarina Radojevic-
              Mitrovic" <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
              > Dear Pulie,
              >
              > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20
              or
              > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
              > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms
              of
              > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
              > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
              > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
              > tense, as I specified.
              > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
              > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
              > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
              > sentence is:
              > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
              > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
              > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
              > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
              > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
              > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
              > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so
              I
              > will try to make things easier to be understood.
              >
              > Let's look another example:
              >
              > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
              > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
              > He said to me that he had some troubles.
              > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
              of
              > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
              > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
              > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
              > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
              > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
              > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
              > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
              > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
              > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
              above.
              > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
              > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
              > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
              > meaning of these two terms.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Katarina
              > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
              > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
              > > Katarina,
              > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
              > > 2. "verb form"?
              > >
              > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
              > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he
              is
              > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
              > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
              Please
              > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
              > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
              > >
              > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
              > > Dear Desmond,
              > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is
              a
              > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
              that
              > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
              > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
              > tenses,
              > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending
              on
              > > the real meaning of it.
              > > Let's see another example:
              > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
              > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
              > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
              > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
              > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
              > than
              > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
              > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
              > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
              person
              > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
              > > answered that I was 20.
              > >
              > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
              > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
              > there
              > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
              > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
              changed
              > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
              > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
              > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
              > > tenses.
              > >
              > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
              > are
              > > looking for, so I may help you more.
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > > Katarina
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
              > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
              > > > Dear friends of this group,
              > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
              > > >
              > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
              > advise.
              > > > Thank you.
              > > >
              > > > regards,
              > > > Desmond Ng
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
              ***********************************************
              > >
              > > Dear Members,
              > >
              > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
              > >
              > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
              join
              > by accessing the following link...
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
              > >
              > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
              > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
              > Board.
              > >
              > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
              > >
              > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
              > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
              > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
              > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
              > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
              > >
              > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
              the
              > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
              > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
              put
              > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
              > >
              > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
              > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
              > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
              > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
              > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
              > >
              > > NEXT, Overview continued...
              > >
              > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
              > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
              > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
              > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
              multicultural
              > diversity!
              > >
              > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
              > http://LAMI.US
              > >
              > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
              > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
              > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
              > >
              >
              *********************************************************************
              > ***
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
            • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
              Here you are being charming, interesting, misterious as always, just to make me more curious. (smiling) Sure, I do like it, but I m wondering whose brain you
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
                Here you are being charming, interesting, misterious as always, just
                to make me more curious. (smiling)
                Sure, I do like it, but I'm wondering whose brain you would like???

                With greatest regards, my dear friend,
                Katarina
                --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle <joniain@y...>
                wrote:
                > Dear Katarina,
                > I'm so pleased that you asked.
                >
                >
                > I am the one, who/m bankrupt is
                > Of moral fibre quite bereft
                > Erstwhile my very bones do quake
                > I'd steal a brain; but that is theft
                > I lay my head on autumn leaves
                > And rested upon my elbow cleft.
                >
                >
                > Hope you like it,
                > regards
                >
                >
                > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Desmond,
                >
                > SNIP
                >
                >
                > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                are
                > looking for, so I may help you more.
                >
                > Regards,
                > Katarina
                >
                >
                > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                > > Dear friends of this group,
                > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                > >
                > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                advise.
                > > Thank you.
                > >
                > > regards,
                > > Desmond Ng
                >
                >
                >
                > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                >
                > Dear Members,
                >
                > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                >
                > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                by accessing the following link...
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                >
                > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                Board.
                >
                > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                >
                > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                >
                > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                >
                > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                >
                > NEXT, Overview continued...
                >
                > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                diversity!
                >
                > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                http://LAMI.US
                >
                > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                >
                *********************************************************************
                ***
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Best wishes,
                > Iain
                > Visit a fascinating site
                > www.iains-images.co.uk
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
              • Pulie Sethunya
                Sharron! Ha aha. Please forgive me. I get too excited about getting about this panel and when that happens I cannot see or read well. Apologies!! Pulie Sharron
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
                  Sharron! Ha aha. Please forgive me. I get too excited about getting about this panel and when that happens I cannot see or read well. Apologies!! Pulie

                  Sharron Lynn Fletcher <whitehorselady4u@...> wrote:
                  Bonjour,
                  I am not Katrina
                  Sorry

                  Pulie Sethunya <liipalesa1@...> wrote:
                  Katarina,
                  What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                  2. "verb form"?
                   
                  I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he is 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question. Please help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                  . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.

                  Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:
                  Dear Desmond,
                  I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is a
                  lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person that
                  is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                  advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of tenses,
                  then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending on
                  the real meaning of it.
                  Let's see another example:
                  She asked me, "How old are you?"
                  1. I answered that I am 20.
                  2. I answered that I was 20.
                  Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                  person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present than
                  the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                  correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                  But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged person
                  isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                  answered that I was 20.

                  Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                  bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and there
                  is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                  (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been changed
                  recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                  Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                  Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                  tenses.

                  Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you are
                  looking for, so I may help you more.

                  Regards,
                  Katarina


                  --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                  <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                  > Dear friends of this group,
                  > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                  >
                  > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please advise.
                  > Thank you.
                  >
                  > regards,
                  > Desmond Ng



                  LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                  Dear Members,

                  How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?

                  Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                  DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                  UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message Board.

                  LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                  Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions, etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.

                  "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put together to form longer passages discourse analysis).

                  And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often represented by some sort of alphabet.)

                  NEXT, Overview continued... 

                  TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                  Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                  Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                  Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                  ************************************************************************






                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

                  LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                  Dear Members,

                  How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?

                  Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                  DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                  UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message Board.

                  LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                  Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions, etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.

                  "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put together to form longer passages discourse analysis).

                  And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often represented by some sort of alphabet.)

                  NEXT, Overview continued... 

                  TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                  Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                  Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                  Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                  ************************************************************************







                  Sharron L. Fletcher

                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com

                  LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                  Dear Members,

                  How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?

                  Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                  DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                  UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message Board.

                  LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                  Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions, etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.

                  "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put together to form longer passages discourse analysis).

                  And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often represented by some sort of alphabet.)

                  NEXT, Overview continued... 

                  TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                  Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                  Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                  Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                  ************************************************************************






                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                • Pulie Sethunya
                  Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer after the definition. Thank you. Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic wrote:Dear
                  Message 8 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
                    Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer after the definition. Thank you.

                    Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:
                    Dear Pulie,

                    You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20 or
                    as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                    circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms of
                    past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                    earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
                    it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
                    tense, as I specified.
                    She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
                    means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                    If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                    sentence is:
                    She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                    speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                    dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                    simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                    Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                    message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                    Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so I
                    will try to make things easier to be understood.

                    Let's look another example:

                    I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
                    if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                    He said to me that he had some troubles.
                    I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead of
                    the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                    or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                    (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                    problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
                    he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                    rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                    changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
                    told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                    troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned above.
                    Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                    grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
                    the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
                    meaning of these two terms.

                    Regards,

                    Katarina
                    --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                    <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                    > Katarina,
                    > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                    > 2. "verb form"?

                    > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                    says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he is
                    20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
                    birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question. Please
                    help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                    > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                    >
                    > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                    > Dear Desmond,
                    > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is a
                    > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person that
                    > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                    > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                    tenses,
                    > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending on
                    > the real meaning of it.
                    > Let's see another example:
                    > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                    > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                    > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                    > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                    > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                    than
                    > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                    > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                    > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged person
                    > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                    > answered that I was 20.
                    >
                    > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                    > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                    there
                    > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                    > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been changed
                    > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                    > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                    > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                    > tenses.
                    >
                    > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                    are
                    > looking for, so I may help you more.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Katarina
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                    > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                    > > Dear friends of this group,
                    > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                    > >
                    > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                    advise.
                    > > Thank you.
                    > >
                    > > regards,
                    > > Desmond Ng
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                    >
                    > Dear Members,
                    >
                    > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                    >
                    > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                    by accessing the following link...
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                    >
                    > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                    > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                    Board.
                    >
                    > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                    >
                    > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                    the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                    has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                    included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                    etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                    >
                    > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                    ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                    (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                    together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                    >
                    > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                    physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                    that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                    listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                    represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                    >
                    > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                    >
                    > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                    that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                    Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                    discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                    diversity!
                    >
                    > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                    http://LAMI.US
                    >
                    > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                    Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                    LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                    >
                    *********************************************************************
                    ***
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                    >  
                    >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >  
                    >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    >
                    >
                    >            
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.



                    LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                    Dear Members,

                    How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?

                    Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                    DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                    UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message Board.

                    LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                    Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions, etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.

                    "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put together to form longer passages discourse analysis).

                    And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often represented by some sort of alphabet.)

                    NEXT, Overview continued... 

                    TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                    Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                    Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                    Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                    ************************************************************************






                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                  • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
                    Dear Paulie, I hope they will, but please, let me know if there still may be some misunderstanding. I d truly like to make things as clear as I can. I VERB
                    Message 9 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
                      Dear Paulie,

                      I hope they will, but please, let me know if there still may be some
                      misunderstanding.
                      I'd truly like to make things as clear as I can.
                      I VERB FORMS-
                      For example:An activity taking place at the present time may be
                      expressed by the following tenses:the present continuous tense/ the
                      present progressive tense, the simple present tense, the present
                      perfect and the present perfect continuous/progressive tense. Well,
                      these tenses are in fact the forms of the verbs. We can also make
                      passive verb forms with the different tenses of "be", followed by
                      the past participle.
                      The infinitives, present and past participles, active and passive
                      forms of verbs etc. are all the verb forms.
                      So, if I have to put the verb in the correct form, that means that I
                      have to chose the correct tense, -ing form, passive form or whatever
                      of the given verb.
                      Look at the following examples:
                      1.They were playing the whole day yesterday while I was working.
                      2. My car has been stolen recently.
                      3. Not knowing what to do, I telephoned her.

                      Just to emphasize that the negative and interrogative forms of the
                      verbs are also the "verb forms".
                      As the past progressive/continuous tense expresses an activity which
                      lasted for some time in a definite past period and also may indicate
                      two or more activities continuing at the same time in a definite pas
                      period, my choice in the first sentence is the past progressive
                      tense and that is the correct form of the verbs that have to be used
                      here upon the grammatical rules.
                      So, the correct verb forms are "were playing" and "was working".
                      These two verb forms include two other verb forms in their making:
                      the verb form called past simple tense of the irregular verb "be"
                      (was, were)and the present participle or so-called -ing form of the
                      main verbs (playing, working), etc.
                      We can talk then about making -ing verb forms, and there is the rule
                      that says that we can make them by using the infinitive form (the
                      present infinitive) of the verb followed by -ing.
                      2. In the second sentence I used the passive verb form of the
                      verb "steal" as it's more common the passive voice to be used here
                      as the subject of the sentence is unknown and inessential.
                      So, the correct verb form is "has been stolen" and this form is made
                      by using the present perfect tense of the verb "be" followed by the
                      form called the past participle of the verb "steal".
                      3. In the third sentence I used the verb form called "participle"
                      (not knowing) as it may express ideas of time, cause, consequence or
                      condition. We can use participles (beside the rest), like in my
                      example to introduce a "participle clause" that can have different
                      uses. This one participle clause (in fact the verb form) is used as
                      an adverb.

                      Further, there are regular and irregular verb forms: "stopped" is
                      regular past simple tense form and went is irregular...

                      It looks like never ending story about the verb forms, but I truly
                      hope that things are clear now.

                      II Sequence of Tenses/ Order of Tenses

                      There are two ways of telling the prson what somebody said, ordered,
                      requested, adviced etc., but we also use the same structure to
                      report people's thoughts, beliefs, knowledge etc.
                      Well, in the reported speech, but also in the sentences that
                      consists of at least two verbs (in an adequate verb forms), we do
                      not usually use the same tenses as the speakers used, because the
                      times are different.
                      a)If the main verb is in the past tense, the verbs in the
                      subordinate clause expressing simultaneous activity must be in the
                      past tense as well:

                      They washed their hands because they were dirty.

                      b) If the main verb is in the past simple tense, the following
                      verbs, expressing an activity preceding that of the main verb must
                      be in the past perfect tense:

                      I thought I had met you.

                      NOTES:
                      1. However, if there are a number of successive activities in the
                      sentence, the simple past tense is used for all:

                      He entered the room, opened the window, took a pencil and started
                      his writing.
                      2. If the action of the subordinate clause precedes the action of
                      the principal clause but refers to a definite past moment, or
                      period, the simple past tense is used:

                      I knew you left them last week.

                      So, Pulie if it's the question, I said in my previous posting that
                      is corect if we say:
                      She said to me that she was 20.,and that this is valid if she is or
                      isn't 20 anymore.

                      the order of events is:

                      was 20- said to me-... or is 20 when she said it to me
                      The principle clause is in the past simple tense, and it is
                      necessary to use the past simple tense. That is the rule
                      called "sequence of tenses" or "concord of tenses" ("order of
                      tenses").
                      In addition, it is also correct to say: She told me that she was
                      20., because the principle clause is in the past tense and the rule
                      called "sequence of tences" said that we have to use the past simple
                      instad of the present simple tense in the subordinate clause.

                      All the rules mentioned don't have to be applied when we are talking
                      about exclusions.

                      If the verb in the subordinate clause expresses a natural law, an
                      eternal truth, a habitual fact or activity, the subordinate clause
                      can remain unchanged, in fact the rule doesn't have to be applied to
                      it.

                      If she is 20, but not older than 21, in fact isn't 21 or a few
                      microseconds older, then it's quite correct to say:
                      She told me she is 20.
                      If the subordinate clause expresses the activity that refers to a
                      definite past moment, then the rule of "sequance" must be applied.

                      She told me she was 20. (This happened a year and a half ago for
                      example, and she isn't 20 anymore, so the subordinate clause refers
                      to a year and a half before the moment of speaking about the event,
                      and the "concord of tenses" must be applied.

                      Dear and above all famous Pulie, I really did my best, and I hope it
                      will be helpful.

                      With greatest regards and best wishes,

                      Katarina
















                      --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                      <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                      > Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer after
                      the definition. Thank you.
                      >
                      > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Pulie,
                      >
                      > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20
                      or
                      > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                      > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms
                      of
                      > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                      > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
                      > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
                      > tense, as I specified.
                      > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
                      > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                      > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                      > sentence is:
                      > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                      > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                      > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                      > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                      > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                      > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                      > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so
                      I
                      > will try to make things easier to be understood.
                      >
                      > Let's look another example:
                      >
                      > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
                      > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                      > He said to me that he had some troubles.
                      > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
                      of
                      > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                      > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                      > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                      > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
                      > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                      > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                      > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
                      > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                      > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
                      above.
                      > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                      > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
                      > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
                      > meaning of these two terms.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Katarina
                      > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                      > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                      > > Katarina,
                      > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                      > > 2. "verb form"?
                      > >
                      > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                      > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he
                      is
                      > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
                      > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
                      Please
                      > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                      > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                      > >
                      > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                      > > Dear Desmond,
                      > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is
                      a
                      > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                      that
                      > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                      > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                      > tenses,
                      > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending
                      on
                      > > the real meaning of it.
                      > > Let's see another example:
                      > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                      > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                      > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                      > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                      > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                      > than
                      > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                      > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                      > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                      person
                      > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                      > > answered that I was 20.
                      > >
                      > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                      > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                      > there
                      > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                      > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                      changed
                      > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                      > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                      > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                      > > tenses.
                      > >
                      > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                      > are
                      > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > > Katarina
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                      > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                      > > > Dear friends of this group,
                      > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                      > > >
                      > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                      > advise.
                      > > > Thank you.
                      > > >
                      > > > regards,
                      > > > Desmond Ng
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                      ***********************************************
                      > >
                      > > Dear Members,
                      > >
                      > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                      > >
                      > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                      join
                      > by accessing the following link...
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                      > >
                      > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                      > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                      > Board.
                      > >
                      > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                      > >
                      > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                      > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                      > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                      > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                      > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                      > >
                      > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                      the
                      > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                      > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                      put
                      > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                      > >
                      > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                      > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                      > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                      > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                      > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                      > >
                      > > NEXT, Overview continued...
                      > >
                      > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                      > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                      > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                      > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                      multicultural
                      > diversity!
                      > >
                      > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                      > http://LAMI.US
                      > >
                      > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                      > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                      > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                      > >
                      >
                      *********************************************************************
                      > ***
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ---------------------------------
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ---------------------------------
                      > > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                      >
                      > Dear Members,
                      >
                      > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                      >
                      > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                      by accessing the following link...
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                      >
                      > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                      > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                      Board.
                      >
                      > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                      >
                      > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                      the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                      has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                      included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                      etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                      >
                      > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                      ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                      (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                      together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                      >
                      > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                      physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                      that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                      listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                      represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                      >
                      > NEXT, Overview continued...
                      >
                      > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                      that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                      Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                      discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                      diversity!
                      >
                      > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                      http://LAMI.US
                      >
                      > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                      Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                      LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                      >
                      *********************************************************************
                      ***
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                    • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
                      Dear Pulie, I am so sorry I really hadn t so much time to allege all the rules concerning the sequence of tenses, but I hope this will be also useful. Thanks
                      Message 10 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
                        Dear Pulie,

                        I am so sorry I really hadn't so much time to allege all the rules
                        concerning the sequence of tenses, but I hope this will be also
                        useful.

                        Thanks for your understanding.

                        Katarina
                        --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                        <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                        > Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer after
                        the definition. Thank you.
                        >
                        > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Pulie,
                        >
                        > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20
                        or
                        > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                        > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms
                        of
                        > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                        > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
                        > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
                        > tense, as I specified.
                        > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
                        > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                        > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                        > sentence is:
                        > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                        > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                        > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                        > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                        > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                        > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                        > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so
                        I
                        > will try to make things easier to be understood.
                        >
                        > Let's look another example:
                        >
                        > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
                        > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                        > He said to me that he had some troubles.
                        > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
                        of
                        > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                        > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                        > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                        > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
                        > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                        > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                        > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
                        > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                        > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
                        above.
                        > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                        > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
                        > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
                        > meaning of these two terms.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Katarina
                        > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                        > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                        > > Katarina,
                        > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                        > > 2. "verb form"?
                        > >
                        > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                        > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he
                        is
                        > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
                        > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
                        Please
                        > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                        > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                        > >
                        > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                        > > Dear Desmond,
                        > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is
                        a
                        > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                        that
                        > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                        > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                        > tenses,
                        > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending
                        on
                        > > the real meaning of it.
                        > > Let's see another example:
                        > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                        > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                        > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                        > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                        > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                        > than
                        > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                        > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                        > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                        person
                        > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                        > > answered that I was 20.
                        > >
                        > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                        > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                        > there
                        > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                        > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                        changed
                        > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                        > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                        > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                        > > tenses.
                        > >
                        > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                        > are
                        > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                        > >
                        > > Regards,
                        > > Katarina
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                        > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                        > > > Dear friends of this group,
                        > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                        > > >
                        > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                        > advise.
                        > > > Thank you.
                        > > >
                        > > > regards,
                        > > > Desmond Ng
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                        ***********************************************
                        > >
                        > > Dear Members,
                        > >
                        > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                        > >
                        > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                        join
                        > by accessing the following link...
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                        > >
                        > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                        > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                        > Board.
                        > >
                        > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                        > >
                        > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                        > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                        > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                        > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                        > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                        > >
                        > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                        the
                        > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                        > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                        put
                        > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                        > >
                        > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                        > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                        > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                        > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                        > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                        > >
                        > > NEXT, Overview continued...
                        > >
                        > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                        > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                        > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                        > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                        multicultural
                        > diversity!
                        > >
                        > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                        > http://LAMI.US
                        > >
                        > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                        > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                        > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                        > >
                        >
                        *********************************************************************
                        > ***
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > Service.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                        >
                        > Dear Members,
                        >
                        > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                        >
                        > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                        by accessing the following link...
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                        >
                        > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                        > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                        Board.
                        >
                        > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                        >
                        > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                        the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                        has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                        included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                        etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                        >
                        > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                        ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                        (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                        together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                        >
                        > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                        physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                        that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                        listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                        represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                        >
                        > NEXT, Overview continued...
                        >
                        > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                        that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                        Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                        discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                        diversity!
                        >
                        > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                        http://LAMI.US
                        >
                        > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                        Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                        LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                        >
                        *********************************************************************
                        ***
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        Service.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                      • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
                        If you or anyone is interested in more explanations upon the subject, I ll be glad to give them later. Regards, Katarina ... the definition. Thank you. ... or
                        Message 11 of 28 , Oct 1, 2004
                          If you or anyone is interested in more explanations upon the
                          subject, I'll be glad to give them later.

                          Regards,

                          Katarina

                          --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                          <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                          > Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer after
                          the definition. Thank you.
                          >
                          > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Pulie,
                          >
                          > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20
                          or
                          > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                          > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms
                          of
                          > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                          > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
                          > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
                          > tense, as I specified.
                          > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
                          > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                          > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                          > sentence is:
                          > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                          > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                          > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                          > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                          > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                          > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                          > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so
                          I
                          > will try to make things easier to be understood.
                          >
                          > Let's look another example:
                          >
                          > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
                          > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                          > He said to me that he had some troubles.
                          > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
                          of
                          > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                          > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                          > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                          > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
                          > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                          > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                          > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
                          > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                          > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
                          above.
                          > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                          > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
                          > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
                          > meaning of these two terms.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Katarina
                          > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                          > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                          > > Katarina,
                          > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                          > > 2. "verb form"?
                          > >
                          > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                          > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he
                          is
                          > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
                          > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
                          Please
                          > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                          > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                          > >
                          > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                          > > Dear Desmond,
                          > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is
                          a
                          > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                          that
                          > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                          > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                          > tenses,
                          > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending
                          on
                          > > the real meaning of it.
                          > > Let's see another example:
                          > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                          > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                          > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                          > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                          > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                          > than
                          > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                          > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                          > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                          person
                          > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                          > > answered that I was 20.
                          > >
                          > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                          > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                          > there
                          > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                          > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                          changed
                          > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                          > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                          > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                          > > tenses.
                          > >
                          > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                          > are
                          > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                          > >
                          > > Regards,
                          > > Katarina
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                          > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                          > > > Dear friends of this group,
                          > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                          > > >
                          > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                          > advise.
                          > > > Thank you.
                          > > >
                          > > > regards,
                          > > > Desmond Ng
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                          ***********************************************
                          > >
                          > > Dear Members,
                          > >
                          > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                          > >
                          > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                          join
                          > by accessing the following link...
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                          > >
                          > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                          > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                          > Board.
                          > >
                          > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                          > >
                          > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                          > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                          > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                          > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                          > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                          > >
                          > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                          the
                          > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                          > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                          put
                          > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                          > >
                          > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                          > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                          > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                          > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                          > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                          > >
                          > > NEXT, Overview continued...
                          > >
                          > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                          > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                          > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                          > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                          multicultural
                          > diversity!
                          > >
                          > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                          > http://LAMI.US
                          > >
                          > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                          > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                          > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                          > >
                          >
                          *********************************************************************
                          > ***
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                          > >
                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          > Service.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                          >
                          > Dear Members,
                          >
                          > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                          >
                          > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                          by accessing the following link...
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                          >
                          > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                          > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                          Board.
                          >
                          > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                          >
                          > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                          the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                          has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                          included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                          etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                          >
                          > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                          ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                          (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                          together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                          >
                          > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                          physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                          that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                          listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                          represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                          >
                          > NEXT, Overview continued...
                          >
                          > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                          that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                          Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                          discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                          diversity!
                          >
                          > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                          http://LAMI.US
                          >
                          > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                          Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                          LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                          >
                          *********************************************************************
                          ***
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                        • John Belisle
                          No Sharron you are quite correct. You are not Katarina and as you have written below neither are you Katrina. However there was no harm done this time as you
                          Message 12 of 28 , Oct 2, 2004
                            No Sharron you are quite correct.
                            You are not Katarina and as you have written below neither are you Katrina.
                             
                            However there was no harm done this time as you remembered you were Sharron.  in good time.
                             
                            Best wishes  
                            Sharron Lynn Fletcher <whitehorselady4u@...> wrote:
                            Bonjour,
                            I am not Katrina
                            Sorry

                            Pulie Sethunya <liipalesa1@...> wrote:
                            Katarina,
                            What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                            2. "verb form"?
                             
                            I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he is 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question. Please help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                            . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.

                            Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:


                            --
                            Best wishes,
                            Iain
                            Visit a fascinating site
                            www.iains-images.co.uk


                            ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

                          • John Belisle
                            I think it would be interesting for me if I had the brain of Nostradamus. Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic wrote:Here you are being
                            Message 13 of 28 , Oct 2, 2004
                              I think it would be interesting for me if I had the brain of Nostradamus.

                              Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:
                              Here you are being charming, interesting, misterious as always, just
                              to make me more curious. (smiling)
                              Sure, I do like it, but I'm wondering whose brain you would like???

                              With greatest regards, my dear friend,
                              Katarina
                              --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle <joniain@y...>
                              wrote:
                              > Dear Katarina,
                              > I'm so pleased that you asked.


                              > I am the one, who/m bankrupt is
                              > Of moral fibre quite bereft
                              > Erstwhile my very bones do quake
                              > I'd steal a brain; but that is theft
                              > I lay my head on autumn leaves
                              > And rested upon my elbow cleft.


                              > Hope you like it,
                              > regards
                              >
                              >
                              > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear Desmond,
                              >
                              > SNIP
                              >
                              >
                              > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                              are
                              > looking for, so I may help you more.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > Katarina
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                              > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                              > > Dear friends of this group,
                              > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                              > >
                              > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                              advise.
                              > > Thank you.
                              > >
                              > > regards,
                              > > Desmond Ng
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                              >
                              > Dear Members,
                              >
                              > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                              >
                              > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                              by accessing the following link...
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                              >
                              > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                              > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                              Board.
                              >
                              > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                              >
                              > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                              the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                              has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                              included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                              etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                              >
                              > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                              ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                              (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                              together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                              >
                              > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                              physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                              that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                              listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                              represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                              >
                              > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                              >
                              > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                              that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                              Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                              discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                              diversity!
                              >
                              > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                              http://LAMI.US
                              >
                              > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                              Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                              LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                              >
                              *********************************************************************
                              ***
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                              >  
                              >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >  
                              >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              Service.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Best wishes,
                              > Iain
                              > Visit a fascinating site
                              > www.iains-images.co.uk
                              >            
                              > ---------------------------------
                              >  ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!



                              LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                              Dear Members,

                              How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?

                              Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                              DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                              UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message Board.

                              LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                              Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions, etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.

                              "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put together to form longer passages discourse analysis).

                              And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often represented by some sort of alphabet.)

                              NEXT, Overview continued... 

                              TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                              Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                              Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                              Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                              ************************************************************************







                              --
                              Best wishes,
                              Iain
                              Visit a fascinating site
                              www.iains-images.co.uk


                              ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
                            • John Belisle
                              Dear Desmond and friends of this group, You asked: Is Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt correct? Please advise. I am able to give you the most
                              Message 14 of 28 , Oct 2, 2004

                                Dear Desmond and friends of this group,

                                You asked: Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please advise.

                                I am able to give you the most interesting and the definitive answer from a very unreliable authority.

                                I was talking to Hamish the other day when he popped round to join me for a cup of coffee. He drinks black coffee with one spoonful of sugar and prefers to drink from a mug rather than a cup and saucer. I arranged everything according to his liking. We were sitting on a bench in the patio, each holding our coffee in our hands and chatting about the ins and outs of the information that passes us by in this age of information technology. How much we retained and how much fell by the wayside.

                                As Hamish drained his mug he asked, "Did you hear about Molly?"

                                "No what about Molly?" I asked. "The last I heard about Molly was when Fanny told me that she had been telling an enormous amount of lies about all sorts of things." I paused. "Told Fanny she was a millionaire or something."

                                Hamish put his coffee cup down on the small three legged, round topped wooden table standing before us. " Fanny only has part of the story and clearly doesn't understand."

                                "Well the story seems to be travelling around the neighbourhood like wildfire. I haven't been out today so I haven't heard the latest twists of course." I informed him.

                                He leaned back, I detected a melancholy expression as he looked directly at me. " I was very close to her, she was my friend and I liked Molly very much. Before she went away I would never have thought that she was capable of doing such a thing." he spoke with slow deliberation.

                                "Well I wonder what on earth happened to her?" I drained my coffee cup and added, "She'd only been gone for one month, wasn't it?"

                                "Yes that's right. She left on the 27th July. Then I had a postcard from her which arrived around the first of August telling me that she fallen in love with this rich German fella. Some sort of industrial entrepreneur as far as I could gather."

                                "So that's all true then?" I asked.

                                "Well I didn't hear anything more for a couple of weeks. Then when she phoned me, she was bursting with enthusiasm for this German character and excitedly told me that she was going to marry him as soon as possible. Naturally I was flabbergasted." said Hamish. He spread his arms before him as much as to say what could I do?

                                "So how does all this effect her financial status. One minute she's a millionaire and the next she's bankrupt?" I asked quite intrigued by the local gossip.

                                Everyone in the village knew that Molly had the manners of, behaved like and could easily pass herself off as an aristocrat. Likewise it was common knowledge that Molly had felt cheated and disappointed when the early demise of her wealthy, influential and attractive, though not aristocratic, husband in his late twenties had left her to live on a small pension. It was a local standing joke that the widow Molly would find a rich man a one-day. After all she was only 26 years of age, elegant and quite beautiful when she made herself up, she always appeared well dressed and co-ordinated. An excellent catch for any man.

                                "Well before she came back to England I made some inquiries about this Dandy she met in Germany and I was greatly surprised by what I learned. Now John I don't want this to go any further so I need your promise on this." In his waited while I digested this information.

                                "If that's what you want then anything you tell me will be in confidence." I encouraged him to continue.

                                "Well John." he began. "This German guy whose name by the way is Norbert Wrede, is very wealthy and runs quite a powerful international syndicate." He paused as though deciding what to say next before continuing. "This Norbert had some money left to him by a relative and he invested in bringing drugs into the country and selling them on. He never touches anything himself and deals only with the financial aspects of that he has made a fortune out of this."

                                "How on earth did you find that this information?" I was curious.

                                "Well I know some shady characters." He grinned at me. " After having done business in the city for the last eight years one just hears about things and I always had a retentive memory for tidbits might be useful in the future." He smiled mischievously.

                                "So does Molly nor anything about this?" I asked my friend.

                                "No as far as I can gather she doesn't know anything about his background. Anyway to cut a long story short I went to talk to Claire." he told me.

                                "So you hadn't spoken to Molly yourself at all so she got back."

                                "No I haven't. I tried to telephone her but kept getting the answering machine. I tried to contact her through Claire a couple of days ago. Claire said that Molly'd stayed with her for a few days and was due to leave for London on the following afternoon. That means that she should have arrived in London yesterday afternoon. In the early evening I called but her answerphone had not been emptied and there was no room for further messages so I gave up."

                                I thought about this and pulled out my cigarette packet. I held it forth and he smiled at me and shook his head as he extracted cigarette. "You told me you were going to stop."

                                I replied as I withdrew a cigarette from the packet, "I was. I will. I haven't." Putting the packet back in my pocket I leaned forward as he flicked his lighter about two feet before my face. Having lit my cigarette I sat back and waited for him to continue.

                                "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt." He began, "It was a strange thing to say about a woman who was not known to have any business that was likely to go bankrupt. Claire told me what had happened as recounted by Molly while she was staying there. It transpired that the day after she arrived in Germany she was introduced to Norbert at a cocktail party. Apparently they hit it off straight away and were then inseparable for the rest of her stay in Germany. According to Claire, Molly had said that she was deeply in love and had never felt so wonderful about anything or anyone in her life before that." I friend stretched his legs.

                                "Molly had, by his wardrobe, conversation and lifestyle, discovered that Norbert was very wealthy. He was a wonderful lover, a considerate companion and the courtship went ahead. Love was in the air and it to its course full swing. He took Molly sightseeing around the city, he introduced Molly to his friends who naturally loved this beautiful woman with the English Rose complexion an aristocratic pair of confidence and fine manners. Norbert had proposed marriage after they had been together for one week. Molly thought about it for five seconds then agreed." He leaned forward demonstrating the eagerness with which the deal had been done.

                                "At an engagement party the following evening they were both much congratulated and showered with gifts and champagne. Being a fast worker it was the very next day that Norbert explained to her about for tax liabilities. He explained that due to sudden upturns in his business he was awash with money and didn't want to put it through his books where the taxman would take so much of it. What he proposed to do was to put €10 million into an account in Molly's name here in Germany.

                                "So what happened next?" I was eager to learn more.

                                "Well they went and opened the account with the Bundesbank in Molly's name. Norbert acted as a reference for her so there was no delays or holdups. He deposited €1000 into her account and on the following day she collected her cheque-book. Over the next few days the Norbert transferred a total of €10 million into Molly's account. In order to build her trust Norbert told her that she could go and spend what she wanted from the account as when they were married everything that was his would-be hers and since they were to be married very soon there was no reason not to start straight away." He picked up this coffee cup and passed to me asking, "Do you have a coffee refill?"

                                I took the cup and went to refill it in the kitchen. "Well I don't know what happened in the interim period but the wedding plans were put into action, the date was set for the week after next and when she arrived at Claire's home Molly was full of excitement and enthusiasm about the future. Claire had agreed to be her matron of honour and apparently everything was shipshape and Bristol fashion." Hamish reached out his hand to take the mug of fresh coffee that I was offering him.

                                "Then a couple of days ago Clare and Molly went to the bank to try to withdraw some cash to pay for items for the wedding and found that the account was empty. There was actually a balance of €1 credit on the account. Molly couldn't understand where the money had gone and immediately went to telephone to Norbert. Norbert couldn't be reached but one of his aids said that he was with his solicitor and give Molly the telephone number on the solicitor's office. When she rang the solicitor's office she found that Norbert was not there but the solicitor confirmed that Norbert had removed his money from her account.

                                Molly asked how this could be possible and she had signed no cheques nor authorisation for this to happen. The solicitor pointed out that she had signed a form giving her fiance power of attorney over her legal affairs. She told the solicitor that she had signed no such document, that any such document was a forgery, and asked him to forward a copy of it to her for authentication." Hamish sipped from this coffee cup to moisten his lips before continuing.

                                "Having eagerly awaited the post man next morning Molly immediately took and opened the letter from the solicitor as soon as Claire put it into her hand. Apparently she stood in the middle of the kitchen floor with open mouth and vacant expression unable to believe what she could see before her very eyes. ' Well said Claire show me what you've got there.' She ignored Clare and stood there as though frozen to the spot. Claire said she walked across and took the letter from her hand. It was indeed a power of attorney and bore an excellent likeness to Molly's signature."

                                "Claire said she helped Molly into a chair and then they discussed the situation over a cup of tea. Molly rang the solicitor and asked to be put in touch with Norbert. The solicitor advised her that Norbert had instructed him to tell her that he had no wish to see her ever again and that since Herr Wrede now had his money returned the matter was now closed. When she put the phone down she was clearly a broken woman. Claire thinks that from her behaviour it must have been the biggest shock she had ever had in her life and she took it very badly."

                                "Naturally I was very concerned and tried to get further information from Claire. She was only able to tell me that she had put Molly on the train to London at four in the afternoon and that Molly was supposed to telephone her after she'd arrived in London. The telephone call never came of course and Claire said she could get no answer from Molly's for when she rang. So that's where the matter was left until this morning." he finished.

                                "So that's how the news that she is bankrupt came about. In reality she was used as a courier to launder drugs money. Well I don't suppose there is anything she can do about it now?" I said to Hamish.

                                "Well no. Not now that she's in the morgue." said Hamish. "She was found dead late last night. The police think it might be suicide but they are continuing with some investigations and they would like the coroner to return an open verdict when in this is held."

                                "Good Lord! What can one say? Gosh Hamish I'm sorry to hear such news of your friend." I was lost for any further words. Completely surprised at such an unexpected outcome.

                                It was with hunched shoulders, a slow gait and a sad expression that Hamish trundled away from my home.

                                However my friends, at least now you know how and why it was that

                                "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" .

                                Desmond Ng <desmondng_2000@...> wrote:
                                Dear friends of this group,
                                I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.

                                Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please advise.
                                Thank you.

                                regards,
                                Desmond Ng




                                --
                                Best wishes,
                                Iain
                                Visit a fascinating site
                                www.iains-images.co.uk


                                ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
                              • Pulie Sethunya
                                Katarina, please call me Pulie . I am still digesting your email....it is so long! Thank you for your time. Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
                                Message 15 of 28 , Oct 2, 2004
                                  Katarina, please call me 'Pulie'. I am still digesting your email....it is so long! Thank you for your time.

                                  Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:
                                  Dear Paulie,

                                  I hope they will, but please, let me know if there still may be some
                                  misunderstanding.
                                  I'd truly like to make things as clear as I can.
                                  I VERB FORMS-
                                  For example:An activity taking place at the present time may be
                                  expressed by the following tenses:the present continuous tense/ the
                                  present progressive tense, the simple present tense, the present
                                  perfect and the present perfect continuous/progressive tense. Well,
                                  these tenses are in fact the forms of the verbs. We can also make
                                  passive verb forms with the different tenses of "be", followed by
                                  the past participle.
                                  The infinitives, present and past participles, active and passive
                                  forms of verbs etc. are all the verb forms.
                                  So, if I have to put the verb in the correct form, that means that I
                                  have to chose the correct tense, -ing form, passive form or whatever
                                  of the given verb.
                                  Look at the following examples:
                                  1.They were playing the whole day yesterday while I was working.
                                  2. My car has been stolen recently.
                                  3. Not knowing what to do, I telephoned her.

                                  Just to emphasize that the negative and interrogative forms of the
                                  verbs are also the "verb forms".
                                  As the past progressive/continuous tense expresses an activity which
                                  lasted for some time in a definite past period and also may indicate
                                  two or more activities continuing at the same time in a definite pas
                                  period, my choice in the first sentence is the past progressive
                                  tense and that is the correct form of the verbs that have to be used
                                  here upon the grammatical rules.
                                  So, the correct verb forms are "were playing" and "was working".
                                  These two verb forms include two other verb forms in their making:
                                  the verb form called past simple tense of the irregular verb "be"
                                  (was, were)and the present participle or so-called -ing form of the
                                  main verbs (playing, working), etc.
                                  We can talk then about making -ing verb forms, and there is the rule
                                  that says that we can make them by using the infinitive form (the
                                  present infinitive) of the verb followed by -ing.
                                  2. In the second sentence I used the passive verb form of the
                                  verb "steal" as it's more common the passive voice to be used here
                                  as the subject of the sentence is unknown and inessential.
                                  So, the correct verb form is "has been stolen" and this form is made
                                  by using the present perfect tense of the verb "be" followed by the
                                  form called the past participle of the verb "steal".
                                  3. In the third sentence I used the verb form called "participle"
                                  (not knowing) as it may express ideas of time, cause, consequence or
                                  condition. We can use participles (beside the rest), like in my
                                  example to introduce a "participle clause" that can have different
                                  uses. This one participle clause (in fact the verb form) is used as
                                  an adverb.

                                  Further, there are regular and irregular verb forms: "stopped" is
                                  regular past simple tense form and went is irregular...

                                  It looks like never ending story about the verb forms, but I truly
                                  hope that things are clear now.

                                  II Sequence of Tenses/ Order of Tenses

                                  There are two ways of telling the prson what somebody said, ordered,
                                  requested, adviced etc., but we also use the same structure to
                                  report people's thoughts, beliefs, knowledge etc.
                                  Well, in the reported speech, but also in the sentences that
                                  consists of at least two verbs (in an adequate verb forms), we do
                                  not usually use the same tenses as the speakers used, because the
                                  times are different.
                                  a)If the main verb is in the past tense, the verbs in the
                                  subordinate clause expressing simultaneous activity must be in the
                                  past tense as well:

                                  They washed their hands because they were dirty.

                                  b) If the main verb is in the past simple tense, the following
                                  verbs, expressing an activity preceding that of the main verb must
                                  be in the past perfect tense:

                                  I thought I had met you.

                                  NOTES:
                                  1. However, if there are a number of successive activities in the
                                  sentence, the simple past tense is used for all:

                                  He entered the room, opened the window, took a pencil and started
                                  his writing.
                                  2. If the action of the subordinate clause precedes the action of
                                  the principal clause but refers to a definite past moment, or
                                  period, the simple past tense is used:

                                  I knew you left them last week.

                                  So, Pulie if it's the question, I said in my previous posting that
                                  is corect if we say:
                                  She said to me that she was 20.,and that this is valid if she is or
                                  isn't 20 anymore.

                                  the order of events is:

                                  was 20- said to me-... or is 20 when she said it to me
                                  The principle clause is in the past simple tense, and it is
                                  necessary to use the past simple tense. That is the rule
                                  called "sequence of tenses" or "concord of tenses" ("order of
                                  tenses").
                                  In addition, it is also correct to say: She told me that she was
                                  20., because the principle clause is in the past tense and the rule
                                  called "sequence of tences" said that we have to use the past simple
                                  instad of the present simple tense in the subordinate clause.

                                  All the rules mentioned don't have to be applied when we are talking
                                  about exclusions.

                                  If the verb in the subordinate clause expresses a natural law, an
                                  eternal truth, a habitual fact or activity, the subordinate clause
                                  can remain unchanged, in fact the rule doesn't have to be applied to
                                  it.

                                  If she is 20, but not older than 21, in fact isn't 21 or a few
                                  microseconds older, then it's quite correct to say:
                                  She told me she is 20.
                                  If the subordinate clause expresses the activity that refers to a
                                  definite past moment, then the rule of "sequance" must be applied.

                                  She told me she was 20. (This happened a year and a half ago for
                                  example, and she isn't 20 anymore, so the subordinate clause refers
                                  to a year and a half before the moment of speaking about the event,
                                  and the "concord of tenses" must be applied.

                                  Dear and above all famous Pulie, I really did my best, and I hope it
                                  will be helpful.

                                  With greatest regards and best wishes,

                                  Katarina
















                                  --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                  <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                  > Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer after
                                  the definition. Thank you.
                                  >
                                  > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Pulie,
                                  >
                                  > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20
                                  or
                                  > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                                  > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms
                                  of
                                  > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                                  > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
                                  > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
                                  > tense, as I specified.
                                  > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
                                  > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                                  > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                                  > sentence is:
                                  > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                                  > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                                  > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                                  > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                                  > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                                  > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                                  > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so
                                  I
                                  > will try to make things easier to be understood.
                                  >
                                  > Let's look another example:
                                  >
                                  > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
                                  > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                                  > He said to me that he had some troubles.
                                  > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
                                  of
                                  > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                                  > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                                  > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                                  > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
                                  > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                                  > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                                  > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
                                  > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                                  > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
                                  above.
                                  > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                                  > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
                                  > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
                                  > meaning of these two terms.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  >
                                  > Katarina
                                  > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                  > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                  > > Katarina,
                                  > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                                  > > 2. "verb form"?
                                  > > 
                                  > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                                  > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he
                                  is
                                  > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
                                  > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
                                  Please
                                  > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                                  > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                                  > >
                                  > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                  > > Dear Desmond,
                                  > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is
                                  a
                                  > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                                  that
                                  > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                                  > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                                  > tenses,
                                  > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending
                                  on
                                  > > the real meaning of it.
                                  > > Let's see another example:
                                  > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                                  > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                                  > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                                  > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                                  > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                                  > than
                                  > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                                  > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                                  > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                                  person
                                  > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                                  > > answered that I was 20.
                                  > >
                                  > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                                  > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                                  > there
                                  > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                                  > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                                  changed
                                  > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                                  > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                                  > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                                  > > tenses.
                                  > >
                                  > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                                  > are
                                  > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                                  > >
                                  > > Regards,
                                  > > Katarina
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                                  > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > Dear friends of this group,
                                  > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                                  > advise.
                                  > > > Thank you.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > regards,
                                  > > > Desmond Ng
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                  ***********************************************
                                  > >
                                  > > Dear Members,
                                  > >
                                  > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                  > >
                                  > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                  join
                                  > by accessing the following link...
                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                  > >
                                  > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                  > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                  > Board.
                                  > >
                                  > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                  > >
                                  > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                  > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                                  > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                  > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                                  > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                  > >
                                  > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                  the
                                  > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                  > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                  put
                                  > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                  > >
                                  > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                  > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                  > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                  > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                  > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                  > >
                                  > > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                                  > >
                                  > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                                  > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                  > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                  > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                  multicultural
                                  > diversity!
                                  > >
                                  > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                  > http://LAMI.US
                                  > >
                                  > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                  > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                  > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  *********************************************************************
                                  > ***
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                  > >  
                                  > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >  
                                  > >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  > Service.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >            
                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                                  >
                                  > Dear Members,
                                  >
                                  > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                  >
                                  > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                                  by accessing the following link...
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                  >
                                  > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                  > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                  Board.
                                  >
                                  > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                  >
                                  > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                  the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                                  has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                  included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                                  etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                  >
                                  > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                                  ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                  (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                                  together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                  >
                                  > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                  physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                  that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                  listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                  represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                  >
                                  > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                                  >
                                  > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                                  that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                  Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                  discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                                  diversity!
                                  >
                                  > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                  http://LAMI.US
                                  >
                                  > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                  Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                  LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                  >
                                  *********************************************************************
                                  ***
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                  >  
                                  >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >  
                                  >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  Service.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >            
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!



                                  LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                                  Welcome to our newest Members! ~ Invite a friend...

                                  Let's maximize the total language variances of our Group!

                                  Enhance and liven-up our Group ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                                  DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                  CORRECT THE SUBJECT: for a well-organized Message Board.

                                  LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                                  Two people who speak the same language have essentially the same dictionary, grammar, and sound system in their head, enabling fairly smooth encoding and decoding. To the extent that these components differ, say for an English speaker from the southeastern United States and an English speaker from New Zealand, communication will be more difficult and will require more work on the part of the speaker and listener. Sometimes the listener may have to ask for clarification, other times the speaker will change his speech in order to be more understandable in the first place.  This extends as well to speakers of two different languages.

                                  NEXT, Overview continues... 

                                  TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                                  Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                                  Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                                  Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                  ************************************************************************






                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                  vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                                • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
                                  You are very welcome,Pulie. I am so sorry for having called you Paulie; I didn t notice. It was only the typo. Thanks for understanding. Have a nice day!
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Oct 3, 2004
                                    You are very welcome,Pulie.
                                    I am so sorry for having called you Paulie; I didn't notice. It was
                                    only the typo.
                                    Thanks for understanding.
                                    Have a nice day!
                                    Katarina
                                    --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                    <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                    > Katarina, please call me 'Pulie'. I am still digesting your
                                    email....it is so long! Thank you for your time.
                                    >
                                    > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Paulie,
                                    >
                                    > I hope they will, but please, let me know if there still may be
                                    some
                                    > misunderstanding.
                                    > I'd truly like to make things as clear as I can.
                                    > I VERB FORMS-
                                    > For example:An activity taking place at the present time may be
                                    > expressed by the following tenses:the present continuous tense/
                                    the
                                    > present progressive tense, the simple present tense, the present
                                    > perfect and the present perfect continuous/progressive tense.
                                    Well,
                                    > these tenses are in fact the forms of the verbs. We can also make
                                    > passive verb forms with the different tenses of "be", followed by
                                    > the past participle.
                                    > The infinitives, present and past participles, active and passive
                                    > forms of verbs etc. are all the verb forms.
                                    > So, if I have to put the verb in the correct form, that means that
                                    I
                                    > have to chose the correct tense, -ing form, passive form or
                                    whatever
                                    > of the given verb.
                                    > Look at the following examples:
                                    > 1.They were playing the whole day yesterday while I was working.
                                    > 2. My car has been stolen recently.
                                    > 3. Not knowing what to do, I telephoned her.
                                    >
                                    > Just to emphasize that the negative and interrogative forms of the
                                    > verbs are also the "verb forms".
                                    > As the past progressive/continuous tense expresses an activity
                                    which
                                    > lasted for some time in a definite past period and also may
                                    indicate
                                    > two or more activities continuing at the same time in a definite
                                    pas
                                    > period, my choice in the first sentence is the past progressive
                                    > tense and that is the correct form of the verbs that have to be
                                    used
                                    > here upon the grammatical rules.
                                    > So, the correct verb forms are "were playing" and "was working".
                                    > These two verb forms include two other verb forms in their making:
                                    > the verb form called past simple tense of the irregular verb "be"
                                    > (was, were)and the present participle or so-called -ing form of
                                    the
                                    > main verbs (playing, working), etc.
                                    > We can talk then about making -ing verb forms, and there is the
                                    rule
                                    > that says that we can make them by using the infinitive form (the
                                    > present infinitive) of the verb followed by -ing.
                                    > 2. In the second sentence I used the passive verb form of the
                                    > verb "steal" as it's more common the passive voice to be used here
                                    > as the subject of the sentence is unknown and inessential.
                                    > So, the correct verb form is "has been stolen" and this form is
                                    made
                                    > by using the present perfect tense of the verb "be" followed by
                                    the
                                    > form called the past participle of the verb "steal".
                                    > 3. In the third sentence I used the verb form called "participle"
                                    > (not knowing) as it may express ideas of time, cause, consequence
                                    or
                                    > condition. We can use participles (beside the rest), like in my
                                    > example to introduce a "participle clause" that can have different
                                    > uses. This one participle clause (in fact the verb form) is used
                                    as
                                    > an adverb.
                                    >
                                    > Further, there are regular and irregular verb forms: "stopped" is
                                    > regular past simple tense form and went is irregular...
                                    >
                                    > It looks like never ending story about the verb forms, but I truly
                                    > hope that things are clear now.
                                    >
                                    > II Sequence of Tenses/ Order of Tenses
                                    >
                                    > There are two ways of telling the prson what somebody said,
                                    ordered,
                                    > requested, adviced etc., but we also use the same structure to
                                    > report people's thoughts, beliefs, knowledge etc.
                                    > Well, in the reported speech, but also in the sentences that
                                    > consists of at least two verbs (in an adequate verb forms), we do
                                    > not usually use the same tenses as the speakers used, because the
                                    > times are different.
                                    > a)If the main verb is in the past tense, the verbs in the
                                    > subordinate clause expressing simultaneous activity must be in the
                                    > past tense as well:
                                    >
                                    > They washed their hands because they were dirty.
                                    >
                                    > b) If the main verb is in the past simple tense, the following
                                    > verbs, expressing an activity preceding that of the main verb must
                                    > be in the past perfect tense:
                                    >
                                    > I thought I had met you.
                                    >
                                    > NOTES:
                                    > 1. However, if there are a number of successive activities in the
                                    > sentence, the simple past tense is used for all:
                                    >
                                    > He entered the room, opened the window, took a pencil and started
                                    > his writing.
                                    > 2. If the action of the subordinate clause precedes the action of
                                    > the principal clause but refers to a definite past moment, or
                                    > period, the simple past tense is used:
                                    >
                                    > I knew you left them last week.
                                    >
                                    > So, Pulie if it's the question, I said in my previous posting that
                                    > is corect if we say:
                                    > She said to me that she was 20.,and that this is valid if she is
                                    or
                                    > isn't 20 anymore.
                                    >
                                    > the order of events is:
                                    >
                                    > was 20- said to me-... or is 20 when she said it to me
                                    > The principle clause is in the past simple tense, and it is
                                    > necessary to use the past simple tense. That is the rule
                                    > called "sequence of tenses" or "concord of tenses" ("order of
                                    > tenses").
                                    > In addition, it is also correct to say: She told me that she was
                                    > 20., because the principle clause is in the past tense and the
                                    rule
                                    > called "sequence of tences" said that we have to use the past
                                    simple
                                    > instad of the present simple tense in the subordinate clause.
                                    >
                                    > All the rules mentioned don't have to be applied when we are
                                    talking
                                    > about exclusions.
                                    >
                                    > If the verb in the subordinate clause expresses a natural law, an
                                    > eternal truth, a habitual fact or activity, the subordinate clause
                                    > can remain unchanged, in fact the rule doesn't have to be applied
                                    to
                                    > it.
                                    >
                                    > If she is 20, but not older than 21, in fact isn't 21 or a few
                                    > microseconds older, then it's quite correct to say:
                                    > She told me she is 20.
                                    > If the subordinate clause expresses the activity that refers to a
                                    > definite past moment, then the rule of "sequance" must be applied.
                                    >
                                    > She told me she was 20. (This happened a year and a half ago for
                                    > example, and she isn't 20 anymore, so the subordinate clause
                                    refers
                                    > to a year and a half before the moment of speaking about the
                                    event,
                                    > and the "concord of tenses" must be applied.
                                    >
                                    > Dear and above all famous Pulie, I really did my best, and I hope
                                    it
                                    > will be helpful.
                                    >
                                    > With greatest regards and best wishes,
                                    >
                                    > Katarina
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                    > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                    > > Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer
                                    after
                                    > the definition. Thank you.
                                    > >
                                    > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Pulie,
                                    > >
                                    > > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is
                                    20
                                    > or
                                    > > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                                    > > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in
                                    terms
                                    > of
                                    > > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                                    > > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20
                                    plus...,
                                    > > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past
                                    simple
                                    > > tense, as I specified.
                                    > > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both
                                    sentences
                                    > > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                                    > > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                                    > > sentence is:
                                    > > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                                    > > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                                    > > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                                    > > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                                    > > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                                    > > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                                    > > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused,
                                    so
                                    > I
                                    > > will try to make things easier to be understood.
                                    > >
                                    > > Let's look another example:
                                    > >
                                    > > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles",
                                    and
                                    > > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                                    > > He said to me that he had some troubles.
                                    > > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
                                    > of
                                    > > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                                    > > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                                    > > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                                    > > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me
                                    that
                                    > > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                                    > > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                                    > > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what
                                    he
                                    > > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                                    > > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
                                    > above.
                                    > > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                                    > > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that
                                    is
                                    > > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain
                                    the
                                    > > meaning of these two terms.
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards,
                                    > >
                                    > > Katarina
                                    > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                    > > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > Katarina,
                                    > > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                                    > > > 2. "verb form"?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                                    > > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because
                                    he
                                    > is
                                    > > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the
                                    exact
                                    > > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
                                    > Please
                                    > > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                                    > > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > Dear Desmond,
                                    > > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there
                                    is
                                    > a
                                    > > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                                    > that
                                    > > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece
                                    of
                                    > > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                                    > > tenses,
                                    > > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect
                                    depending
                                    > on
                                    > > > the real meaning of it.
                                    > > > Let's see another example:
                                    > > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                                    > > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                                    > > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                                    > > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if
                                    the
                                    > > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                                    > > than
                                    > > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is
                                    absolutely
                                    > > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                                    > > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                                    > person
                                    > > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                                    > > > answered that I was 20.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                                    > > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                                    > > there
                                    > > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                                    > > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                                    > changed
                                    > > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                                    > > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                                    > > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                                    > > > tenses.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice
                                    you
                                    > > are
                                    > > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Regards,
                                    > > > Katarina
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                                    > > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > > Dear friends of this group,
                                    > > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                                    > > advise.
                                    > > > > Thank you.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > regards,
                                    > > > > Desmond Ng
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                    > ***********************************************
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Dear Members,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                    > join
                                    > > by accessing the following link...
                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                                    > > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                    > > Board.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                    > > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a
                                    person
                                    > > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                    > > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical
                                    functions,
                                    > > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                    > the
                                    > > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                    > > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                    > put
                                    > > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                    > > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                    > > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                    > > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                    > > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                    > > >
                                    > > > NEXT, Overview continued...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message
                                    requesting
                                    > > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit
                                    My
                                    > > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                    > > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                    > multicultural
                                    > > diversity!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                    > > http://LAMI.US
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                    > > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                    > > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    *********************************************************************
                                    > > ***
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >
                                    > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                    > > >
                                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    > > Service.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                    ***********************************************
                                    > >
                                    > > Dear Members,
                                    > >
                                    > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                    > >
                                    > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                    join
                                    > by accessing the following link...
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                    > >
                                    > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                                    > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                    > Board.
                                    > >
                                    > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                    > >
                                    > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                    > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                                    > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                    > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                                    > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                    > >
                                    > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                    the
                                    > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                    > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                    put
                                    > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                    > >
                                    > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                    > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                    > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                    > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                    > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                    > >
                                    > > NEXT, Overview continued...
                                    > >
                                    > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                                    > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                    > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                    > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                    multicultural
                                    > diversity!
                                    > >
                                    > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                    > http://LAMI.US
                                    > >
                                    > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                    > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                    > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >
                                    > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    *********************************************************************
                                    > ***
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                    > >
                                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >
                                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    > Service.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                                    >
                                    > Welcome to our newest Members! ~ Invite a friend...
                                    >
                                    > Let's maximize the total language variances of our Group!
                                    >
                                    > Enhance and liven-up our Group ~ Invite at least one person to
                                    join by accessing the following link...
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                    >
                                    > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                                    > CORRECT THE SUBJECT: for a well-organized Message Board.
                                    >
                                    > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                    >
                                    > Two people who speak the same language have essentially the same
                                    dictionary, grammar, and sound system in their head, enabling fairly
                                    smooth encoding and decoding. To the extent that these components
                                    differ, say for an English speaker from the southeastern United
                                    States and an English speaker from New Zealand, communication will
                                    be more difficult and will require more work on the part of the
                                    speaker and listener. Sometimes the listener may have to ask for
                                    clarification, other times the speaker will change his speech in
                                    order to be more understandable in the first place. This extends as
                                    well to speakers of two different languages.
                                    >
                                    > NEXT, Overview continues...
                                    >
                                    > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                                    that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                    Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                    discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                                    diversity!
                                    >
                                    > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                    http://LAMI.US
                                    >
                                    > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                    Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                    LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                    >
                                    *********************************************************************
                                    ***
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ---------------------------------
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    Service.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ---------------------------------
                                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                                  • Pulie Sethunya
                                    I read the entire piece Katarina....thank you for responding. I feel wiser now. Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic wrote:Dear Paulie, I hope
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Oct 3, 2004
                                      I read the entire piece Katarina....thank you for responding. I feel wiser now.

                                      Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:
                                      Dear Paulie,

                                      I hope they will, but please, let me know if there still may be some
                                      misunderstanding.
                                      I'd truly like to make things as clear as I can.
                                      I VERB FORMS-
                                      For example:An activity taking place at the present time may be
                                      expressed by the following tenses:the present continuous tense/ the
                                      present progressive tense, the simple present tense, the present
                                      perfect and the present perfect continuous/progressive tense. Well,
                                      these tenses are in fact the forms of the verbs. We can also make
                                      passive verb forms with the different tenses of "be", followed by
                                      the past participle.
                                      The infinitives, present and past participles, active and passive
                                      forms of verbs etc. are all the verb forms.
                                      So, if I have to put the verb in the correct form, that means that I
                                      have to chose the correct tense, -ing form, passive form or whatever
                                      of the given verb.
                                      Look at the following examples:
                                      1.They were playing the whole day yesterday while I was working.
                                      2. My car has been stolen recently.
                                      3. Not knowing what to do, I telephoned her.

                                      Just to emphasize that the negative and interrogative forms of the
                                      verbs are also the "verb forms".
                                      As the past progressive/continuous tense expresses an activity which
                                      lasted for some time in a definite past period and also may indicate
                                      two or more activities continuing at the same time in a definite pas
                                      period, my choice in the first sentence is the past progressive
                                      tense and that is the correct form of the verbs that have to be used
                                      here upon the grammatical rules.
                                      So, the correct verb forms are "were playing" and "was working".
                                      These two verb forms include two other verb forms in their making:
                                      the verb form called past simple tense of the irregular verb "be"
                                      (was, were)and the present participle or so-called -ing form of the
                                      main verbs (playing, working), etc.
                                      We can talk then about making -ing verb forms, and there is the rule
                                      that says that we can make them by using the infinitive form (the
                                      present infinitive) of the verb followed by -ing.
                                      2. In the second sentence I used the passive verb form of the
                                      verb "steal" as it's more common the passive voice to be used here
                                      as the subject of the sentence is unknown and inessential.
                                      So, the correct verb form is "has been stolen" and this form is made
                                      by using the present perfect tense of the verb "be" followed by the
                                      form called the past participle of the verb "steal".
                                      3. In the third sentence I used the verb form called "participle"
                                      (not knowing) as it may express ideas of time, cause, consequence or
                                      condition. We can use participles (beside the rest), like in my
                                      example to introduce a "participle clause" that can have different
                                      uses. This one participle clause (in fact the verb form) is used as
                                      an adverb.

                                      Further, there are regular and irregular verb forms: "stopped" is
                                      regular past simple tense form and went is irregular...

                                      It looks like never ending story about the verb forms, but I truly
                                      hope that things are clear now.

                                      II Sequence of Tenses/ Order of Tenses

                                      There are two ways of telling the prson what somebody said, ordered,
                                      requested, adviced etc., but we also use the same structure to
                                      report people's thoughts, beliefs, knowledge etc.
                                      Well, in the reported speech, but also in the sentences that
                                      consists of at least two verbs (in an adequate verb forms), we do
                                      not usually use the same tenses as the speakers used, because the
                                      times are different.
                                      a)If the main verb is in the past tense, the verbs in the
                                      subordinate clause expressing simultaneous activity must be in the
                                      past tense as well:

                                      They washed their hands because they were dirty.

                                      b) If the main verb is in the past simple tense, the following
                                      verbs, expressing an activity preceding that of the main verb must
                                      be in the past perfect tense:

                                      I thought I had met you.

                                      NOTES:
                                      1. However, if there are a number of successive activities in the
                                      sentence, the simple past tense is used for all:

                                      He entered the room, opened the window, took a pencil and started
                                      his writing.
                                      2. If the action of the subordinate clause precedes the action of
                                      the principal clause but refers to a definite past moment, or
                                      period, the simple past tense is used:

                                      I knew you left them last week.

                                      So, Pulie if it's the question, I said in my previous posting that
                                      is corect if we say:
                                      She said to me that she was 20.,and that this is valid if she is or
                                      isn't 20 anymore.

                                      the order of events is:

                                      was 20- said to me-... or is 20 when she said it to me
                                      The principle clause is in the past simple tense, and it is
                                      necessary to use the past simple tense. That is the rule
                                      called "sequence of tenses" or "concord of tenses" ("order of
                                      tenses").
                                      In addition, it is also correct to say: She told me that she was
                                      20., because the principle clause is in the past tense and the rule
                                      called "sequence of tences" said that we have to use the past simple
                                      instad of the present simple tense in the subordinate clause.

                                      All the rules mentioned don't have to be applied when we are talking
                                      about exclusions.

                                      If the verb in the subordinate clause expresses a natural law, an
                                      eternal truth, a habitual fact or activity, the subordinate clause
                                      can remain unchanged, in fact the rule doesn't have to be applied to
                                      it.

                                      If she is 20, but not older than 21, in fact isn't 21 or a few
                                      microseconds older, then it's quite correct to say:
                                      She told me she is 20.
                                      If the subordinate clause expresses the activity that refers to a
                                      definite past moment, then the rule of "sequance" must be applied.

                                      She told me she was 20. (This happened a year and a half ago for
                                      example, and she isn't 20 anymore, so the subordinate clause refers
                                      to a year and a half before the moment of speaking about the event,
                                      and the "concord of tenses" must be applied.

                                      Dear and above all famous Pulie, I really did my best, and I hope it
                                      will be helpful.

                                      With greatest regards and best wishes,

                                      Katarina
















                                      --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                      <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                      > Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer after
                                      the definition. Thank you.
                                      >
                                      > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Pulie,
                                      >
                                      > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is 20
                                      or
                                      > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                                      > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in terms
                                      of
                                      > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                                      > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20 plus...,
                                      > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past simple
                                      > tense, as I specified.
                                      > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both sentences
                                      > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                                      > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                                      > sentence is:
                                      > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                                      > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                                      > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                                      > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                                      > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                                      > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                                      > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused, so
                                      I
                                      > will try to make things easier to be understood.
                                      >
                                      > Let's look another example:
                                      >
                                      > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles", and
                                      > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                                      > He said to me that he had some troubles.
                                      > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
                                      of
                                      > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                                      > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                                      > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                                      > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me that
                                      > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                                      > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                                      > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what he
                                      > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                                      > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
                                      above.
                                      > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                                      > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that is
                                      > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain the
                                      > meaning of these two terms.
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      >
                                      > Katarina
                                      > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                      > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                      > > Katarina,
                                      > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                                      > > 2. "verb form"?
                                      > > 
                                      > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                                      > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because he
                                      is
                                      > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the exact
                                      > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
                                      Please
                                      > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                                      > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                                      > >
                                      > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                      > > Dear Desmond,
                                      > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is
                                      a
                                      > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                                      that
                                      > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                                      > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                                      > tenses,
                                      > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending
                                      on
                                      > > the real meaning of it.
                                      > > Let's see another example:
                                      > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                                      > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                                      > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                                      > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                                      > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                                      > than
                                      > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                                      > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                                      > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                                      person
                                      > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                                      > > answered that I was 20.
                                      > >
                                      > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                                      > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                                      > there
                                      > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                                      > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                                      changed
                                      > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                                      > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                                      > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                                      > > tenses.
                                      > >
                                      > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                                      > are
                                      > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                                      > >
                                      > > Regards,
                                      > > Katarina
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                                      > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > Dear friends of this group,
                                      > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                                      > advise.
                                      > > > Thank you.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > regards,
                                      > > > Desmond Ng
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                      ***********************************************
                                      > >
                                      > > Dear Members,
                                      > >
                                      > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                      > >
                                      > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                      join
                                      > by accessing the following link...
                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                      > >
                                      > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                      > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                      > Board.
                                      > >
                                      > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                      > >
                                      > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                      > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                                      > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                      > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                                      > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                      > >
                                      > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                      the
                                      > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                      > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                      put
                                      > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                      > >
                                      > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                      > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                      > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                      > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                      > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                      > >
                                      > > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                                      > >
                                      > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                                      > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                      > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                      > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                      multicultural
                                      > diversity!
                                      > >
                                      > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                      > http://LAMI.US
                                      > >
                                      > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                      > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                      > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >
                                      > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      *********************************************************************
                                      > ***
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                      > >  
                                      > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >  
                                      > >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      > Service.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >            
                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                      > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                                      >
                                      > Dear Members,
                                      >
                                      > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                      >
                                      > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to join
                                      by accessing the following link...
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                      >
                                      > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                      > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                      Board.
                                      >
                                      > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                      >
                                      > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                      the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                                      has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                      included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                                      etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                      >
                                      > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax), the
                                      ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                      (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are put
                                      together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                      >
                                      > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                      physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                      that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                      listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                      represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                      >
                                      > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                                      >
                                      > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                                      that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                      Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                      discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                                      diversity!
                                      >
                                      > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                      http://LAMI.US
                                      >
                                      > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                      Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                      LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                      >
                                      *********************************************************************
                                      ***
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ---------------------------------
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                      >  
                                      >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      >  
                                      >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      Service.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >            
                                      > ---------------------------------
                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                      > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!



                                      LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                                      Welcome to our newest Members! ~ Invite a friend...

                                      Let's maximize the total language variances of our Group!

                                      Enhance and liven-up our Group ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                                      DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                      CORRECT THE SUBJECT: for a well-organized Message Board.

                                      LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                                      Two people who speak the same language have essentially the same dictionary, grammar, and sound system in their head, enabling fairly smooth encoding and decoding. To the extent that these components differ, say for an English speaker from the southeastern United States and an English speaker from New Zealand, communication will be more difficult and will require more work on the part of the speaker and listener. Sometimes the listener may have to ask for clarification, other times the speaker will change his speech in order to be more understandable in the first place.  This extends as well to speakers of two different languages.

                                      NEXT, Overview continues... 

                                      TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                                      Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                                      Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                                      Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                      ************************************************************************






                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                      vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                                    • Pulie Sethunya
                                      Por nada Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic wrote: You are very welcome,Pulie. I am so sorry for having called you Paulie; I didn t notice.
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Oct 3, 2004
                                        Por nada

                                        Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@...> wrote:

                                        You are very welcome,Pulie.
                                        I am so sorry for having called you Paulie; I didn't notice. It was
                                        only the typo.
                                        Thanks for understanding.
                                        Have a nice day!
                                        Katarina
                                        --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                        <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                        > Katarina, please call me 'Pulie'. I am still digesting your
                                        email....it is so long! Thank you for your time.
                                        >
                                        > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Paulie,
                                        >
                                        > I hope they will, but please, let me know if there still may be
                                        some
                                        > misunderstanding.
                                        > I'd truly like to make things as clear as I can.
                                        > I VERB FORMS-
                                        > For example:An activity taking place at the present time may be
                                        > expressed by the following tenses:the present continuous tense/
                                        the
                                        > present progressive tense, the simple present tense, the present
                                        > perfect and the present perfect continuous/progressive tense.
                                        Well,
                                        > these tenses are in fact the forms of the verbs. We can also make
                                        > passive verb forms with the different tenses of "be", followed by
                                        > the past participle.
                                        > The infinitives, present and past participles, active and passive
                                        > forms of verbs etc. are all the verb forms.
                                        > So, if I have to put the verb in the correct form, that means that
                                        I
                                        > have to chose the correct tense, -ing form, passive form or
                                        whatever
                                        > of the given verb.
                                        > Look at the following examples:
                                        > 1.They were playing the whole day yesterday while I was working.
                                        > 2. My car has been stolen recently.
                                        > 3. Not knowing what to do, I telephoned her.
                                        >
                                        > Just to emphasize that the negative and interrogative forms of the
                                        > verbs are also the "verb forms".
                                        > As the past progressive/continuous tense expresses an activity
                                        which
                                        > lasted for some time in a definite past period and also may
                                        indicate
                                        > two or more activities continuing at the same time in a definite
                                        pas
                                        > period, my choice in the first sentence is the past progressive
                                        > tense and that is the correct form of the verbs that have to be
                                        used
                                        > here upon the grammatical rules.
                                        > So, the correct verb forms are "were playing" and "was working".
                                        > These two verb forms include two other verb forms in their making:
                                        > the verb form called past simple tense of the irregular verb "be"
                                        > (was, were)and the present participle or so-called -ing form of
                                        the
                                        > main verbs (playing, working), etc.
                                        > We can talk then about making -ing verb forms, and there is the
                                        rule
                                        > that says that we can make them by using the infinitive form (the
                                        > present infinitive) of the verb followed by -ing.
                                        > 2. In the second sentence I used the passive verb form of the
                                        > verb "steal" as it's more common the passive voice to be used here
                                        > as the subject of the sentence is unknown and inessential.
                                        > So, the correct verb form is "has been stolen" and this form is
                                        made
                                        > by using the present perfect tense of the verb "be" followed by
                                        the
                                        > form called the past participle of the verb "steal".
                                        > 3. In the third sentence I used the verb form called "participle"
                                        > (not knowing) as it may express ideas of time, cause, consequence
                                        or
                                        > condition. We can use participles (beside the rest), like in my
                                        > example to introduce a "participle clause" that can have different
                                        > uses. This one participle clause (in fact the verb form) is used
                                        as
                                        > an adverb.
                                        >
                                        > Further, there are regular and irregular verb forms: "stopped" is
                                        > regular past simple tense form and went is irregular...
                                        >
                                        > It looks like never ending story about the verb forms, but I truly
                                        > hope that things are clear now.
                                        >
                                        > II Sequence of Tenses/ Order of Tenses
                                        >
                                        > There are two ways of telling the prson what somebody said,
                                        ordered,
                                        > requested, adviced etc., but we also use the same structure to
                                        > report people's thoughts, beliefs, knowledge etc.
                                        > Well, in the reported speech, but also in the sentences that
                                        > consists of at least two verbs (in an adequate verb forms), we do
                                        > not usually use the same tenses as the speakers used, because the
                                        > times are different.
                                        > a)If the main verb is in the past tense, the verbs in the
                                        > subordinate clause expressing simultaneous activity must be in the
                                        > past tense as well:
                                        >
                                        > They washed their hands because they were dirty.
                                        >
                                        > b) If the main verb is in the past simple tense, the following
                                        > verbs, expressing an activity preceding that of the main verb must
                                        > be in the past perfect tense:
                                        >
                                        > I thought I had met you.
                                        >
                                        > NOTES:
                                        > 1. However, if there are a number of successive activities in the
                                        > sentence, the simple past tense is used for all:
                                        >
                                        > He entered the room, opened the window, took a pencil and started
                                        > his writing.
                                        > 2. If the action of the subordinate clause precedes the action of
                                        > the principal clause but refers to a definite past moment, or
                                        > period, the simple past tense is used:
                                        >
                                        > I knew you left them last week.
                                        >
                                        > So, Pulie if it's the question, I said in my previous posting that
                                        > is corect if we say:
                                        > She said to me that she was 20.,and that this is valid if she is
                                        or
                                        > isn't 20 anymore.
                                        >
                                        > the order of events is:
                                        >
                                        > was 20- said to me-... or is 20 when she said it to me
                                        > The principle clause is in the past simple tense, and it is
                                        > necessary to use the past simple tense. That is the rule
                                        > called "sequence of tenses" or "concord of tenses" ("order of
                                        > tenses").
                                        > In addition, it is also correct to say: She told me that she was
                                        > 20., because the principle clause is in the past tense and the
                                        rule
                                        > called "sequence of tences" said that we have to use the past
                                        simple
                                        > instad of the present simple tense in the subordinate clause.
                                        >
                                        > All the rules mentioned don't have to be applied when we are
                                        talking
                                        > about exclusions.
                                        >
                                        > If the verb in the subordinate clause expresses a natural law, an
                                        > eternal truth, a habitual fact or activity, the subordinate clause
                                        > can remain unchanged, in fact the rule doesn't have to be applied
                                        to
                                        > it.
                                        >
                                        > If she is 20, but not older than 21, in fact isn't 21 or a few
                                        > microseconds older, then it's quite correct to say:
                                        > She told me she is 20.
                                        > If the subordinate clause expresses the activity that refers to a
                                        > definite past moment, then the rule of "sequance" must be applied.
                                        >
                                        > She told me she was 20. (This happened a year and a half ago for
                                        > example, and she isn't 20 anymore, so the subordinate clause
                                        refers
                                        > to a year and a half before the moment of speaking about the
                                        event,
                                        > and the "concord of tenses" must be applied.
                                        >
                                        > Dear and above all famous Pulie, I really did my best, and I hope
                                        it
                                        > will be helpful.
                                        >
                                        > With greatest regards and best wishes,
                                        >
                                        > Katarina
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                        > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                        > > Please, go ahead. I will let you know if things are clearer
                                        after
                                        > the definition. Thank you.
                                        > >
                                        > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:Dear Pulie,
                                        > >
                                        > > You are right. The both sentences are correct if the person is
                                        20
                                        > or
                                        > > as you said "plus a few microseconds older". Under these
                                        > > circumstances it is obvious that we are talking in a way in
                                        terms
                                        > of
                                        > > past. However, if the person is 21 nowadays, and the talk was
                                        > > earlier when the person said " I am 20" and really was 20
                                        plus...,
                                        > > it is needed to use the only correct verb form in the past
                                        simple
                                        > > tense, as I specified.
                                        > > She told me she is 20. She told me she was twenty. Both
                                        sentences
                                        > > means that she is 20 or older, but not older than 21.
                                        > > If she is not 20 anymore, but 21 and older, the only correct
                                        > > sentence is:
                                        > > She told me that she was 20. In fact, when we use the reported
                                        > > speech, if the main clause is in the past simple tense, the
                                        > > dependent clause need to be modified, and instead of the present
                                        > > simple tense it is used the past simple tense for example.
                                        > > Anyway, I stressed that there is lack of context in Dasmond's
                                        > > message, so I am not sure if this is a question.
                                        > > Maybe, my example was not so good, and have made you confused,
                                        so
                                        > I
                                        > > will try to make things easier to be understood.
                                        > >
                                        > > Let's look another example:
                                        > >
                                        > > I met a friend yesterday and he said: " I have some troubles",
                                        and
                                        > > if I want to report what he said to me, I will tell:
                                        > > He said to me that he had some troubles.
                                        > > I will use the past simple tense in the dependent clause instead
                                        > of
                                        > > the present simple tense. That is called "sequence of tenses"
                                        > > or "order of tenses". If my friend still has troubles at present,
                                        > > (didn't have those troubles only yesterday and hasn't solved the
                                        > > problems yet) than it is acceptable to be said: He said to me
                                        that
                                        > > he has some troubles. There is no need for the grammatical
                                        > > rule "sequence of tenses", because his situation still hasn't
                                        > > changed. If he has solved his problems and I want to tell what
                                        he
                                        > > told me yesterday, I will say: He said to me that he had some
                                        > > troubles. It is needed to apply the grammatical rule mentioned
                                        > above.
                                        > > Finally, Paulie, do you want me to give the definiton of the
                                        > > grammatical terms "verb form" and "sequence of tenses"? If that
                                        is
                                        > > the case, let me know, please, and I'll do my best to explain
                                        the
                                        > > meaning of these two terms.
                                        > >
                                        > > Regards,
                                        > >
                                        > > Katarina
                                        > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Pulie Sethunya
                                        > > <liipalesa1@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > Katarina,
                                        > > > What is 1. "sequence of tenses"?
                                        > > > 2. "verb form"?
                                        > > > 
                                        > > > I find both sentences correct regardless. I talk to a man who
                                        > > says "I am 20" and I always think in terms of the past because
                                        he
                                        > is
                                        > > 20 plus a few microseconds after he realises and reports the
                                        exact
                                        > > birth day. So is/was does not seem relevant to the question.
                                        > Please
                                        > > help me understand where you are leading Katarina.
                                        > > > . The famous Pulie. Ha hahahha.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > Dear Desmond,
                                        > > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there
                                        is
                                        > a
                                        > > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                                        > that
                                        > > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece
                                        of
                                        > > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                                        > > tenses,
                                        > > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect
                                        depending
                                        > on
                                        > > > the real meaning of it.
                                        > > > Let's see another example:
                                        > > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                                        > > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                                        > > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                                        > > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if
                                        the
                                        > > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                                        > > than
                                        > > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is
                                        absolutely
                                        > > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                                        > > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                                        > person
                                        > > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                                        > > > answered that I was 20.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                                        > > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                                        > > there
                                        > > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                                        > > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                                        > changed
                                        > > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                                        > > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                                        > > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                                        > > > tenses.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice
                                        you
                                        > > are
                                        > > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Regards,
                                        > > > Katarina
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                                        > > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > Dear friends of this group,
                                        > > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                                        > > advise.
                                        > > > > Thank you.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > regards,
                                        > > > > Desmond Ng
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                        > ***********************************************
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Dear Members,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                        > join
                                        > > by accessing the following link...
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                        > > >
                                        > > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                        > > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                        > > Board.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                        > > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a
                                        person
                                        > > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                        > > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical
                                        functions,
                                        > > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                        > the
                                        > > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                        > > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                        > put
                                        > > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                        > > >
                                        > > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                        > > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                        > > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                        > > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                        > > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                                        > > >
                                        > > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message
                                        requesting
                                        > > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit
                                        My
                                        > > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                        > > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                        > multicultural
                                        > > diversity!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                        > > http://LAMI.US
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                        > > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                        > > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        *********************************************************************
                                        > > ***
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > > >
                                        > > >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                        > > Service.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >            
                                        > > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                        ***********************************************
                                        > >
                                        > > Dear Members,
                                        > >
                                        > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                        > >
                                        > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                        join
                                        > by accessing the following link...
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                        > >
                                        > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                        > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                        > Board.
                                        > >
                                        > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                        > >
                                        > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                        > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                                        > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                        > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                                        > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                        > >
                                        > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                        the
                                        > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                        > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                        put
                                        > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                        > >
                                        > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                        > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                        > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                        > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                        > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                        > >
                                        > > NEXT, Overview continued... 
                                        > >
                                        > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                                        > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                        > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                        > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                        multicultural
                                        > diversity!
                                        > >
                                        > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                        > http://LAMI.US
                                        > >
                                        > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                        > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                        > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >
                                        > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        *********************************************************************
                                        > ***
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                        > >  
                                        > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >  
                                        > >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                        > Service.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >            
                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************
                                        >
                                        > Welcome to our newest Members! ~ Invite a friend...
                                        >
                                        > Let's maximize the total language variances of our Group!
                                        >
                                        > Enhance and liven-up our Group ~ Invite at least one person to
                                        join by accessing the following link...
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                        >
                                        > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                        > CORRECT THE SUBJECT: for a well-organized Message Board.
                                        >
                                        > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                        >
                                        > Two people who speak the same language have essentially the same
                                        dictionary, grammar, and sound system in their head, enabling fairly
                                        smooth encoding and decoding. To the extent that these components
                                        differ, say for an English speaker from the southeastern United
                                        States and an English speaker from New Zealand, communication will
                                        be more difficult and will require more work on the part of the
                                        speaker and listener. Sometimes the listener may have to ask for
                                        clarification, other times the speaker will change his speech in
                                        order to be more understandable in the first place.  This extends as
                                        well to speakers of two different languages.
                                        >
                                        > NEXT, Overview continues... 
                                        >
                                        > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting
                                        that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                        Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                        discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural
                                        diversity!
                                        >
                                        > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                        http://LAMI.US
                                        >
                                        > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                        Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                        LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                        >
                                        *********************************************************************
                                        ***
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                        >  
                                        >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >  
                                        >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                        Service.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >            
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!





                                        LAMI.US NEWSLETTER ***********************************************

                                        Members: 730

                                        Welcome to our newest Members! ~ Invite a friend...

                                        Let's maximize the total language variances of our Group!

                                        Enhance and liven-up our Group ~ Invite at least one person to join by accessing the following link...
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite

                                        DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message. 
                                        CORRECT THE SUBJECT: for a well-organized Message Board.

                                        LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION

                                        Two people who speak the same language have essentially the same dictionary, grammar, and sound system in their head, enabling fairly smooth encoding and decoding. To the extent that these components differ, say for an English speaker from the southeastern United States and an English speaker from New Zealand, communication will be more difficult and will require more work on the part of the speaker and listener. Sometimes the listener may have to ask for clarification, other times the speaker will change his speech in order to be more understandable in the first place.  This extends as well to speakers of two different languages.

                                        NEXT, Overview continues... 

                                        TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS:  Post a message requesting that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun, multicultural diversity!

                                        Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving http://LAMI.US

                                        Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations? Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com

                                        Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                        ************************************************************************





                                        __________________________________________________
                                        Do You Yahoo!?
                                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                        http://mail.yahoo.com

                                      • Desmond Ng
                                        Dear John and Katarina, Firstly, I apologize for no show in the past 24 days after your reply. I would also like to apologize for not making the sentence
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Oct 25, 2004
                                          Dear John and Katarina,
                                          Firstly, I apologize for "no show" in the past 24 days after your
                                          reply.
                                          I would also like to apologize for not making the sentence clear
                                          enough before posting the question.
                                          Anyway, I am greatful that both of you have enlightened me about
                                          Molly/Claire's case. BTW, It is Molly who gone bankrupt.
                                          Thank you.

                                          regards,
                                          Desmond

                                          --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Katarina Radojevic-
                                          Mitrovic" <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                          > Thanks John,
                                          >
                                          > Your comments are always appreciated, and you are absolutely
                                          right.
                                          > I have just wanted to stress out the fact about the sequence of
                                          verb
                                          > tenses.
                                          > Anyway, I hope your comments will help Desmond as well.
                                          > Regards,
                                          > Katarina--- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle
                                          > <joniain@y...> wrote:
                                          > > With the greatest of respect I wish to make an additional
                                          comment
                                          > about the statement number 2.
                                          > >
                                          > > I venture to suggest that the second statement is also
                                          > grammatically correct on any day after her 20th birthday.
                                          > >
                                          > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                          > > Dear Desmond,
                                          > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there is
                                          a
                                          > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                                          that
                                          > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece of
                                          > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                                          > tenses,
                                          > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect depending
                                          on
                                          > > the real meaning of it.
                                          > > Let's see another example:
                                          > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                                          > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                                          > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                                          > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if the
                                          > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                                          > than
                                          > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is absolutely
                                          > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                                          > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                                          person
                                          > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                                          > > answered that I was 20.
                                          > >
                                          > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                                          > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                                          > there
                                          > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                                          > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                                          changed
                                          > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                                          > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                                          > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                                          > > tenses.
                                          > >
                                          > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice you
                                          > are
                                          > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                                          > >
                                          > > Regards,
                                          > > Katarina
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                                          > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                                          > > > Dear friends of this group,
                                          > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                                          > advise.
                                          > > > Thank you.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > regards,
                                          > > > Desmond Ng
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                          ***********************************************
                                          > >
                                          > > Dear Members,
                                          > >
                                          > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                          > >
                                          > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                          join
                                          > by accessing the following link...
                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                          > >
                                          > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                                          > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                          > Board.
                                          > >
                                          > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                          > >
                                          > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                          > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a person
                                          > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                          > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical functions,
                                          > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                          > >
                                          > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                          the
                                          > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                          > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                          put
                                          > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                          > >
                                          > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                          > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                          > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                          > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                          > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                          > >
                                          > > NEXT, Overview continued...
                                          > >
                                          > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message requesting
                                          > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit My
                                          > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                          > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                          multicultural
                                          > diversity!
                                          > >
                                          > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                          > http://LAMI.US
                                          > >
                                          > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                          > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                          > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >
                                          > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          *********************************************************************
                                          > ***
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                          > >
                                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >
                                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                          > Service.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --
                                          > > Best wishes,
                                          > > Iain
                                          > > Visit a fascinating site
                                          > > www.iains-images.co.uk
                                          > >
                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                          > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
                                        • Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic
                                          Dear Desmond, No need for your apologizing and thanks. I am delighted if it was helpful. You are always welcome. With greatest regards, Katarina ... is ... of
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Oct 25, 2004
                                            Dear Desmond,

                                            No need for your apologizing and thanks. I am delighted if it was
                                            helpful.
                                            You are always welcome.
                                            With greatest regards,

                                            Katarina
                                            --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                                            <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Dear John and Katarina,
                                            > Firstly, I apologize for "no show" in the past 24 days after your
                                            > reply.
                                            > I would also like to apologize for not making the sentence clear
                                            > enough before posting the question.
                                            > Anyway, I am greatful that both of you have enlightened me about
                                            > Molly/Claire's case. BTW, It is Molly who gone bankrupt.
                                            > Thank you.
                                            >
                                            > regards,
                                            > Desmond
                                            >
                                            > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Katarina Radojevic-
                                            > Mitrovic" <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                            > > Thanks John,
                                            > >
                                            > > Your comments are always appreciated, and you are absolutely
                                            > right.
                                            > > I have just wanted to stress out the fact about the sequence of
                                            > verb
                                            > > tenses.
                                            > > Anyway, I hope your comments will help Desmond as well.
                                            > > Regards,
                                            > > Katarina--- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle
                                            > > <joniain@y...> wrote:
                                            > > > With the greatest of respect I wish to make an additional
                                            > comment
                                            > > about the statement number 2.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I venture to suggest that the second statement is also
                                            > > grammatically correct on any day after her 20th birthday.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Katarina Radojevic- Mitrovic <angelicrina@y...> wrote:
                                            > > > Dear Desmond,
                                            > > > I am not sure if I will hit the target as I think that there
                                            is
                                            > a
                                            > > > lack of context, so I can't clearly understand who the person
                                            > that
                                            > > > is ruined financially is. However, if you are seeking a piece
                                            of
                                            > > > advice concerning the correct verb form, in fact sequence of
                                            > > tenses,
                                            > > > then this sentence can be either correct or incorrect
                                            depending
                                            > on
                                            > > > the real meaning of it.
                                            > > > Let's see another example:
                                            > > > She asked me, "How old are you?"
                                            > > > 1. I answered that I am 20.
                                            > > > 2. I answered that I was 20.
                                            > > > Both answers could be correct, but it depends on the fact if
                                            the
                                            > > > person is still 20 or not. If he/she is actually 20 at present
                                            > > than
                                            > > > the first answer (without the sequence of tenses) is
                                            absolutely
                                            > > > correct, though the second is also grammatically acceptable.
                                            > > > But if this event was in the past, and nowadays the alleged
                                            > person
                                            > > > isn't 20, but older, the only correct choice is the second- I
                                            > > > answered that I was 20.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Regarding your example if Molly/Claire (I am not sure who is
                                            > > > bankrupt) is bankrupt at present, the sentence is correct and
                                            > > there
                                            > > > is no need for the sequence of verb tenses, but if she
                                            > > > (Molly/Claire) isn't anymore (e.g.,the situation has been
                                            > changed
                                            > > > recently), then the correct sentence would be:
                                            > > > Molly told Claire that she was bankrupt.
                                            > > > Under these circumstances, your sentence needs the sequence of
                                            > > > tenses.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Please, specify who is/was bankrupt and what kind of advice
                                            you
                                            > > are
                                            > > > looking for, so I may help you more.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Regards,
                                            > > > Katarina
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, "Desmond Ng"
                                            > > > <desmondng_2000@y...> wrote:
                                            > > > > Dear friends of this group,
                                            > > > > I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Is "Molly told Claire that she is bankrupt" correct? Please
                                            > > advise.
                                            > > > > Thank you.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > regards,
                                            > > > > Desmond Ng
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > LAMI.US NEWSLETTER
                                            > ***********************************************
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Dear Members,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > How can we maximize personal language effectiveness?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Enhance & liven-up our Groups ~ Invite at least one person to
                                            > join
                                            > > by accessing the following link...
                                            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/subs_invite
                                            > > >
                                            > > > DELETE footers, annotations, etc. from every message.
                                            > > > UPDATE THE SUBJECT - Re: _______ for a well-organized Message
                                            > > Board.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > LANGUAGE-LEARNING SECTION
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Overview of Language ~ The "dictionary," also called
                                            > > the "lexicon," is the storehouse of words (lexemes) that a
                                            person
                                            > > has in his head. Actually, it's more than just the words: also
                                            > > included is their meanings, cultural uses, grammatical
                                            functions,
                                            > > etc. The word "encyclopedia" could also be used.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "Grammar" refers to the order that the words come in (syntax),
                                            > the
                                            > > ways that words are formed from roots, prefixes, and suffixes
                                            > > (morphology), and even the way that sentences and paragraphs are
                                            > put
                                            > > together to form longer passages discourse analysis).
                                            > > >
                                            > > > And the sound system (phonology) of a language comprises the
                                            > > physical representation and manifestation of words and sentences
                                            > > that travel from the mouth of the speaker to the ear of the
                                            > > listener. (In writing and reading, the sound system is often
                                            > > represented by some sort of alphabet.)
                                            > > >
                                            > > > NEXT, Overview continued...
                                            > > >
                                            > > > TO STOP RECEIVING INDIVIDUAL EMAILS: Post a message
                                            requesting
                                            > > that we stop them for you, or, sign in to group and click "Edit
                                            My
                                            > > Membership"; but please DON'T CLICK LEAVE GROUP! ~ Stay for new
                                            > > discoveries of intellect, affiliation savvy, and fun,
                                            > multicultural
                                            > > diversity!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Eloquently, articulately, and charismatically improving
                                            > > http://LAMI.US
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Testimonials? Frustrations?
                                            > > Language-learning tips to contribute? Please e-mail them to
                                            > > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Discover the Diversity of Languages! ~ Sincerely, LAMI ~
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            *********************************************************************
                                            > > ***
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ---------------------------------
                                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > > >
                                            > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LanguagesAndMore/
                                            > > >
                                            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > LanguagesAndMore-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            > > Service.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --
                                            > > > Best wishes,
                                            > > > Iain
                                            > > > Visit a fascinating site
                                            > > > www.iains-images.co.uk
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ---------------------------------
                                            > > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.