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Re: Arguing on the internet..

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  • John Belisle
    What an interesting article and it fills me in on the continued nature of this group. I used to post regularly as some of you will know and have mentioned not
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 1, 2006
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      What an interesting article and it fills me in on the continued nature of this group.
       
      I used to post regularly as some of you will know and have mentioned not infrequently but since Ms lami was not prepared to get rid of the dross I stopped wasting my time on replies.
       
      I see the dross is still there, a wolf in sheep's clothing, a female masquerading with a masculine name and the people who are still posting to the list are responding and giving her more reason to post  when, as you point out, she herself accepts that she is a retard and pointed out in early mailings when I showed sympathy for her and tried to help her improve her English, that she is mentally defective.  In fact she made much of it and claimed it was/is her disability.
       
      I only look at the list occasionally now but I am not surprised to see that after at least a lear she is still the main cause of dissent as was the case when I suggested she be removed from a Language learning group and join a more appropriate band of writers.
       
       

      LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      Message: 1
      Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:30:40 GMT
      From: no-worries@...
      Subject: Re: Arguing on the internet......

      Is this an anniversary that you are so determined to start this endless
      cycle of who said what up again? I might ask why after your treatment of
      Josney, you consider yourself in any position to criticise me for responding at
      first to solve the situation subsequently in kind, to someone who from the
      start was unwarrantedly offensive to everybody including yourself, responded to
      all attempts to discover the problem with more accusations of coming under
      verbal attack and pretending insult from exchanges neither involing nor
      concerning her with even greater accusation of being informed that they did not
      refer to her.
      Do you treat them differently because you consider they have different mental
      capacities or because she is female and your expectations of women lower than of
      men, so they can do no wrong and deserve men's support? If the first, then you
      see her exactly as I do. If the second, I have no truck with patronising male
      chauvinism and you or any woman can just put up with my treating both sexes
      alike. Women who don't like equality choose inferiority or arrogance and I don't
      waste my time on either.

      Josney has messed people about. That is what he does. It is his character. He
      has also posted a lot of interesting asides to keep this group going, not that
      anybody bothered to respond to them. So for that matter do I forward things I
      find interesting, in case anyone else might. He has also given a number of
      rather bizarre language lessons and advice to various people. He expresses
      himself comprehensibly and interestingly. For the most part, when he has been
      playing silly buggers I was not interested: it looked like somebody playing
      silly buggers.

      For this, regardless of the rest, you deliver a series of turgid patronising
      lectures on what a bad boy he's been, falling into any trap he might have been
      setting exactly as I fell into her traps trying to explain myself and rectify
      whatever was bothering her before realising she was determined to find fault
      and keep it going and enjoyed herself with her at least literate counterpart
      'John' for weeks and months after Nick and I left them to what they both enjoy
      best.

      In your eyes she can do no wrong. You are shocked when I refer to her as a
      mental defective. She has herself refered to her mental incapacity and is at
      the least dyslexic, more like beyond merely illiterate to pure incoherent by the
      sentence. One would imagine even a dyslexic can copy letter by lettter what is
      in front. She cannot or will not.

      You were even more shocked when I responded to her as of equal intelligence.
      Yet if she were of normal intelligence, we should have to ask what attitude her
      incomprehensible gibberish shows towards the group. Either she is illiterate or
      she chooses to place the burden of decipherment on everybody else. If
      illiterate, then exempted from responsibility to write literately, if not, then
      treating the group far more arrogantly than any daft kid - and 22 is still
      'kid' as far as I'm concerned - winding people up, who claim the maturity to
      know better than to be wound up.

      Anybody can check the archives. From the moment Nick and I and for that matter
      you, responded as to anyone else with a mixture of annoyance at incoherent
      posts while offering to help if she had genujine problems, her response was to
      scream that we were insulting her, to greet asking for what had offended her
      with further accusations and to give the impression of working herself into
      such a frenzy of hatred over nothing as to become completely incoherent with
      rage.

      None of it had any basis. The only one to get through was you because while we
      responded to a person at face value, you responded to a woman as a moron. Since
      trivial women, epecially those calling themselves feminist, like that kind of
      demeaning treatment and she is a moron, you got on.

      Several times she has butted into conversations neither involving, nor about
      her, in order to claim verbal attack and responded to assurances that she was
      not with further accusations for disagreeing with her.

      She even on one occasion took one of my byeline signatures added to a
      conversation with Nick as personal insult and set off yet another round of her
      diatribe wallowing in outrage at being told it was unrelated to her, so she had
      no reason to worry about it. If I remember, that reassurance started a month or
      so's shrieking accusations of making an attack on her and several demands to ban
      me for saying I intended no such thing and was bogged off with her constant
      hysterical lies to the group that that I had.

      It is only by exempting her from normal expectations, as incapable, that gives
      her the privilege of tolerance not normally extended to every nuisance
      inventing fault with everything said to them in order to enjoy a flamefest.
      Either she is an equal intelligent human being responsible for her lies,
      aggression and sheer bad manners expecting everyone else to sort her incoherence
      out, or she is 'not guilty by reason of dimished responsibility'.

      I have assumed the latter. That still does not excuse unwarranted vindictive
      attempts to make herself the focus of attention inventing excuses for verbal
      attack pretending to have been attacked when she was not. I see no reason for
      return to treating our problem child as if adult, nor do I consider mental
      incapacity an excuse for aggressive lies.




      --
      Best wishes,
      joniain
      Visit my fascinating site
      http://www.iains-images.co.uk


      Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

    • Christian Bobak
      The only dross I ve seen in this group of late is your hateful, self-indulgent Josef Mengele-inspired insult posts. Give it a rest, jerk-wad. You are the
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 1, 2006
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        The only "dross" I've seen in this group of late is your hateful, self-indulgent Josef Mengele-inspired insult posts.
         
        Give it a rest, jerk-wad.
         
        You are the very epitome of a "mental defective" if ever I've seen one.
         
        Go straight to hell. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200.
         
        Christian

        John Belisle <joniain@...> wrote:
        What an interesting article and it fills me in on the continued nature of this group.
         
        I used to post regularly as some of you will know and have mentioned not infrequently but since Ms lami was not prepared to get rid of the dross I stopped wasting my time on replies.
         
        I see the dross is still there, a wolf in sheep's clothing, a female masquerading with a masculine name and the people who are still posting to the list are responding and giving her more reason to post  when, as you point out, she herself accepts that she is a retard and pointed out in early mailings when I showed sympathy for her and tried to help her improve her English, that she is mentally defective.  In fact she made much of it and claimed it was/is her disability.
         
        I only look at the list occasionally now but I am not surprised to see that after at least a lear she is still the main cause of dissent as was the case when I suggested she be removed from a Language learning group and join a more appropriate band of writers.
         
         

        LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        Message: 1
        Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:30:40 GMT
        From: no-worries@...
        Subject: Re: Arguing on the internet......

        Is this an anniversary that you are so determined to start this endless
        cycle of who said what up again? I might ask why after your treatment of
        Josney, you consider yourself in any position to criticise me for responding at
        first to solve the situation subsequently in kind, to someone who from the
        start was unwarrantedly offensive to everybody including yourself, responded to
        all attempts to discover the problem with more accusations of coming under
        verbal attack and pretending insult from exchanges neither involing nor
        concerning her with even greater accusation of being informed that they did not
        refer to her.
        Do you treat them differently because you consider they have different mental
        capacities or because she is female and your expectations of women lower than of
        men, so they can do no wrong and deserve men's support? If the first, then you
        see her exactly as I do. If the second, I have no truck with patronising male
        chauvinism and you or any woman can just put up with my treating both sexes
        alike. Women who don't like equality choose inferiority or arrogance and I don't
        waste my time on either.

        Josney has messed people about. That is what he does. It is his character. He
        has also posted a lot of interesting asides to keep this group going, not that
        anybody bothered to respond to them. So for that matter do I forward things I
        find interesting, in case anyone else might. He has also given a number of
        rather bizarre language lessons and advice to various people. He expresses
        himself comprehensibly and interestingly. For the most part, when he has been
        playing silly buggers I was not interested: it looked like somebody playing
        silly buggers.

        For this, regardless of the rest, you deliver a series of turgid patronising
        lectures on what a bad boy he's been, falling into any trap he might have been
        setting exactly as I fell into her traps trying to explain myself and rectify
        whatever was bothering her before realising she was determined to find fault
        and keep it going and enjoyed herself with her at least literate counterpart
        'John' for weeks and months after Nick and I left them to what they both enjoy
        best.

        In your eyes she can do no wrong. You are shocked when I refer to her as a
        mental defective. She has herself refered to her mental incapacity and is at
        the least dyslexic, more like beyond merely illiterate to pure incoherent by the
        sentence. One would imagine even a dyslexic can copy letter by lettter what is
        in front. She cannot or will not.

        You were even more shocked when I responded to her as of equal intelligence.
        Yet if she were of normal intelligence, we should have to ask what attitude her
        incomprehensible gibberish shows towards the group. Either she is illiterate or
        she chooses to place the burden of decipherment on everybody else. If
        illiterate, then exempted from responsibility to write literately, if not, then
        treating the group far more arrogantly than any daft kid - and 22 is still
        'kid' as far as I'm concerned - winding people up, who claim the maturity to
        know better than to be wound up.

        Anybody can check the archives. From the moment Nick and I and for that matter
        you, responded as to anyone else with a mixture of annoyance at incoherent
        posts while offering to help if she had genujine problems, her response was to
        scream that we were insulting her, to greet asking for what had offended her
        with further accusations and to give the impression of working herself into
        such a frenzy of hatred over nothing as to become completely incoherent with
        rage.

        None of it had any basis. The only one to get through was you because while we
        responded to a person at face value, you responded to a woman as a moron. Since
        trivial women, epecially those calling themselves feminist, like that kind of
        demeaning treatment and she is a moron, you got on.

        Several times she has butted into conversations neither involving, nor about
        her, in order to claim verbal attack and responded to assurances that she was
        not with further accusations for disagreeing with her.

        She even on one occasion took one of my byeline signatures added to a
        conversation with Nick as personal insult and set off yet another round of her
        diatribe wallowing in outrage at being told it was unrelated to her, so she had
        no reason to worry about it. If I remember, that reassurance started a month or
        so's shrieking accusations of making an attack on her and several demands to ban
        me for saying I intended no such thing and was bogged off with her constant
        hysterical lies to the group that that I had.

        It is only by exempting her from normal expectations, as incapable, that gives
        her the privilege of tolerance not normally extended to every nuisance
        inventing fault with everything said to them in order to enjoy a flamefest.
        Either she is an equal intelligent human being responsible for her lies,
        aggression and sheer bad manners expecting everyone else to sort her incoherence
        out, or she is 'not guilty by reason of dimished responsibility'.

        I have assumed the latter. That still does not excuse unwarranted vindictive
        attempts to make herself the focus of attention inventing excuses for verbal
        attack pretending to have been attacked when she was not. I see no reason for
        return to treating our problem child as if adult, nor do I consider mental
        incapacity an excuse for aggressive lies.

        --
        Best wishes,
        joniain
        Visit my fascinating site
        http://www.iains-images.co.uk
         


        Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

      • John Belisle
        Hi Christian, I find it strange that you should write this. You do not know me nor anything about me really. As far as I can remember you were not subscribed
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 8, 2006
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          Hi Christian,
          I find it strange that you should write this. You do not know me nor anything about me really.

          As far as I can remember you were not subscribed to this group when I had the altercations with mickeymouse and there has been nothing in my recent postings that were in any way directed at yourself nor even Josney for that matter that could lead you to such a conclusion.

          However I am an intelligent person and a mature citizen so it doesn't matter to me what you think of me but I understood that the terms and conditions of this group were such that they discourage such disparaging remarks as you have made about me.




          LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:

          Message: 6
          Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:58:51 -0500 (EST)
          From: Christian Bobak
          Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..

          John is a horrible human being. Josney is only weird.

          What makes you think I "support" anyone?

          Mind your own business.

          Christian

          no-worries@... wrote:
          Strange how you support Josney but not John. Not that I care for his arrogance but I find somewhat less to object to in outspokenness than in playing silly-Bs as Josney has done deliberately and MM does because she can't help it. Be consistent!



          > Oh, I'm sure he's turned on me already.
          >
          > I don't care. He can turn on me all he wants. It
          > won't affect me in the slightest. I can handle
          > anything he has to dish out. I'm just sick of him
          > picking on others. That's what bothers me.







          --
          Best wishes,
          joniain
          Visit my fascinating site
          http://www.iains-images.co.uk


          Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

        • John Belisle
          Dear no-worries, I just wanted to thank you for expressing your fair-mindedness. But just to put you into the picture I am not an American right wing although
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 8, 2006
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            Dear no-worries,

            I just wanted to thank you for expressing your fair-mindedness.

            But just to put you into the picture I am not an American right wing although I would say that over the years that I have been a member of this group there are many occasions on which I have been of serious interest and have had some excellent exchanges and interactions with other subscribers.

            This of course is not recent because I have been an infrequent poster for the last 12+ months for reasons that are known to the members who were subscribers at that time.

            Like yourself I see myself as a fair-minded person although I do have a habit of coming out on the side of the underdog when I feel it is deserved and someone is being given a raw deal.

            I was born in Scotland and so I travel on a British passport. I have been to America and travelled around the country from east to west and from New York down to Florida. I like the American people by and large. I have cousins who have lived in America all their lives. It is the American politicians and their foreign policy over the last couple of decades or so that I find so disagreeable and it has been so damaging to their reputation worldwide although it's only recently that the majority of people in the UK and probably Europe have come to understand the direction that America appears to be headed in.

            Don't worry 'no worries' I wont be doing much posting so there is no chance of me becoming bogged down in any exchanges with Christian much as I think he should not have expressed such derogatory remarks about me when he knows little of me and who I am.

            I am not a horrible human.

            LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:

            Message: 12
            Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 21:07:25 GMT
            From: no-worries@...
            Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..

            You are making support of free expression your business, so be consistant about
            it. Personal distaste has nothing to do with it. I find John no more or less
            arrogant than Josney playing silly Bs. I personally find it cheap and
            distasteful to mock village idiots but I am also delighted that he did unto her
            as she did unto me. Mental incapacity excuses many things but vicious spite is
            not one of them. One deceiver you support, another you damn; one bad-mouther
            you support, another you damn. Either support all with the same freedoms or
            condemn all. John might be one of the most intelligent people on the board, I
            don't know. At least he is capable of expressing a point of view and possibly
            sustaining interesting arguments. On the other hand, he may be just American
            right-wing, so of no serious interest.



            John is a horrible human being. Josney is only weird.

            What makes you think I "support" anyone?

            Mind your own business.

            Christian



            Tradition is having babies, not wearing your father's hat - Picasso



            [This message contained attachments]





            --
            Best wishes,
            joniain
            Visit my fascinating site
            http://www.iains-images.co.uk


            Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

          • Christian Bobak
            I ve been this group for about two or more years now, long before mickeymouse showed up. And your remarks to mickeymouse are about as disparaging as anything
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 8, 2006
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              I've been this group for about two or more years now, long before mickeymouse showed up.
               
              And your remarks to mickeymouse are about as disparaging as anything I've ever read anywhere in my entire 40 years on this planet. Nothing I've ever said to you could hold a candle to what you've written about her.
               
              As for what I know about you, I know enough.
               
              Christian

              John Belisle <joniain@...> wrote:
              Hi Christian,
              I find it strange that you should write this. You do not know me nor anything about me really.

              As far as I can remember you were not subscribed to this group when I had the altercations with mickeymouse and there has been nothing in my recent postings that were in any way directed at yourself nor even Josney for that matter that could lead you to such a conclusion.

              However I am an intelligent person and a mature citizen so it doesn't matter to me what you think of me but I understood that the terms and conditions of this group were such that they discourage such disparaging remarks as you have made about me.


              LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:

              Message: 6
              Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:58:51 -0500 (EST)
              From: Christian Bobak
              Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..

              John is a horrible human being. Josney is only weird.

              What makes you think I "support" anyone?

              Mind your own business.

              Christian

              no-worries@... wrote:
              Strange how you support Josney but not John. Not that I care for his arrogance but I find somewhat less to object to in outspokenness than in playing silly-Bs as Josney has done deliberately and MM does because she can't help it. Be consistent!


              > Oh, I'm sure he's turned on me already.
              >
              > I don't care. He can turn on me all he wants. It
              > won't affect me in the slightest. I can handle
              > anything he has to dish out. I'm just sick of him
              > picking on others. That's what bothers me.


              Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

            • John Belisle
              Hi Justin, Haven t heard from you for a long time but as you are probably aware I have not been reading regularly nor posting frequently over the past year. It
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 8, 2006
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                Hi Justin,
                Haven't heard from you for a long time but as you are probably aware I have not been reading regularly nor posting frequently over the past year.
                 
                It is not at all surprising that you are getting pissed off by the posts that are being written here with such abandon.
                 
                They are too lazy to cut out all the endless quotations that are no longer required the consequence of which is that each mailing is of an enormous length.
                 
                As I asked when I posted a couple of weeks ago, should I be surprised that after a year perhaps a little longer this thread is still continuing and as several of you have pointed out the Disney character is kept in the forefront and limelight at all times. Practically dominating the English speaking postings over the last couple of weeks that I have looked with any regularity.
                 
                None of this need have happened had Mrs Lami had the courage to point out that on a language learning list it was unlikely that this lady would be able to make intelligible contributions to those who were fluent in English let alone be understood by people who are still learning the language. However she chose not to exercise her rights as the list owner and allowed herself to put the desires of this person before all else.
                 
                List members who had been happy interacting with each other on a wide range of topics asked that the situation be sorted out as it was clear that a language list was not the best or even the correct place for this person to be expressing her deviousness. Is army took no action and the Disney character was allowed was allowed to continue her membership the outcome of which is clear for all to see.
                In British schools it is common practice for a disruptive pupils to be expelled and of all the list that I have been on in the 11 years that I have been on the Internet I have never seen or come across a group or list where one member has been allowed to create so much disharmony and cause so many arguments as is the case here.
                 
                There is little shouting going on on the list but there is an awful lot of aaaaaaa AAAAAAAA and much coughing which seems to me quite pointless.
                 
                You have shouted "
                HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR? GET A LIFE!!!!!!!" (at least I understand that capital letters mean a shouting) so I think you have made yourself quite clear Justin whether or not you will be heeded is of course another matter.
                 
                I notice from the postings over the last few weeks that I have been paying attention to them that some of our good members including Dr Nick have, like yourself, have too become fed up with it. They did the only thing that was possible for them to do since Mrs Lami put the requirements of the disabled member before the wishes of the majority of our members. Not a very democratic thing to do I don't think.
                 
                I fervently hope that the situation is going to improve for everyone's sake because this used to be an interesting place to be with some diverse and useful subjects, topics and interactions between our posters.
                 


                LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                Message: 3
                Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:43:06 -0000
                From: "Justin Evans - Spain"
                Subject: Re: Arguing on the internet..

                I am truly getting pissed off by all of you. May I interfere with it
                all? There's a lot of important things you guys should be doing right
                now. Instead you prefer shouting at eveyone on the list. HAVE I MADE
                MYSELF CLEAR? GET A LIFE!!!!!!!


                --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bobak
                wrote:
                >
                > Don't answer him mickeymouse. He's not worth your
                > time.
                >
                > Christian




                --
                Best wishes,
                joniain
                Visit my fascinating site
                http://www.iains-images.co.uk


                Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

              • John Belisle
                Well I am pleased that I am not the only fellow who has used more than One name on here in order to stimulate alternative points of view. However One name is
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 8, 2006
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                  Well I am pleased that I am not the only fellow who has used more than One name on here in order to stimulate alternative points of view.

                  However One name is sufficient for me now so there need be no confusion.

                  LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                  Message: 1
                  Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 21:37:55 GMT
                  From: no-worries@...
                  Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..

                  I doubt very much that Christian is Nick. I've had some contact with Nick
                  off-group, though you can never tell anybody from anybody. I do recall one
                  strange instance.



                  Message: 2
                  Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:40:41 -0500 (EST)
                  From: Christian Bobak
                  Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..

                  Oh noooo! *Gasp!* You've discovered my precious secret! I am indeed, Dr. Nick!! And Dr. Nick is ME!!

                  Darn the luck.

                  And here I was thinking I had fooled everyone. ;)

                  Did you know that I am also Michael?

                  Actually....I think it's time to come clean. As well as Dr. Nick and Michael, I'm also John Iain, "no-worries" and mickeymouse!!!

                  But you haven't heard the most incredible part yet. Are you ready for this?

                  I AM LAMI!!!

                  So that means I am everyone on this group except YOU, my dear Josney! I've been single-handedly posing as an entire group of people who seem to be at each other's throats just for your amusement!

                  But now you've blown my cover and thus, my nefarious plot along with it, mua ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaa!

                  Oh well. It was fun while it lasted.

                  Christian


                  Justin Evans - Spain wrote:
                  Indeed, a good impression! Everybody has taken for granted I'm
                  Josney.... with what proof? My close relationship with him or else?
                  No, the fact that I helped him create a group doesn't prove
                  anything , either.

                  Christian is just that false doctor using false pretenses to annoy
                  people, whose name is Dr. Nick. Should I expand the topic? I don't
                  think I should. I am done with all this tread. You'd better calm
                  down and start to focus on your own life. Haven't you all realised
                  that your wife might be cheating you right now? :-)))Probably both
                  of us are cheating YOU!!! Hey, stupid dude!




                  --
                  Best wishes,
                  joniain
                  Visit my fascinating site
                  http://www.iains-images.co.uk


                  Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

                • caesariensis
                  I m sorry about the right-winger bit. I thought you came across in your come-back a bit arrogant but I that allows freedom to be just as ouspoken instead
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 9, 2006
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                    I'm sorry about the 'right-winger' bit. I thought you came across in
                    your 'come-back' a bit arrogant but I that allows freedom to be just
                    as ouspoken instead of passive-aggressive control. I realised after
                    that the sole opinion I have of you is Christian's lordly judgement
                    and all I remember was that slagfest with us all trying to get some
                    sense out of what had rattled MM's cage and getting our ears torn
                    off for daring to question her. She has never forgiven me and never
                    will I suppose. But I sent her side to waste and ignored yours so I
                    really don't know what went on. I'd hope you would lift the tone out
                    of teenage. So my only fear is that you <i>don't</i> make enough
                    contribution. And, like you, I know something about mental
                    subnormality and they are the last people to put up with bad
                    attitude and swinging the lead (I call it Diana Syndrome) because
                    they want to show what they can do, not have everyone running around
                    for them and putting up with abuse out of pity for what they can't
                    be expected to understand.


                    --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle <joniain@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear no-worries,
                    >
                    > I just wanted to thank you for expressing your fair-mindedness.
                    >
                    > But just to put you into the picture I am not an American right
                    wing although I would say that over the years that I have been a
                    member of this group there are many occasions on which I have been
                    of serious interest and have had some excellent exchanges and
                    interactions with other subscribers.
                    >
                    > This of course is not recent because I have been an infrequent
                    poster for the last 12+ months for reasons that are known to the
                    members who were subscribers at that time.
                    >
                    > Like yourself I see myself as a fair-minded person although I do
                    have a habit of coming out on the side of the underdog when I feel
                    it is deserved and someone is being given a raw deal.
                    >
                    > I was born in Scotland and so I travel on a British passport. I
                    have been to America and travelled around the country from east to
                    west and from New York down to Florida. I like the American people
                    by and large. I have cousins who have lived in America all their
                    lives. It is the American politicians and their foreign policy over
                    the last couple of decades or so that I find so disagreeable and it
                    has been so damaging to their reputation worldwide although it's
                    only recently that the majority of people in the UK and probably
                    Europe have come to understand the direction that America appears to
                    be headed in.
                    >
                    > Don't worry 'no worries' I wont be doing much posting so there is
                    no chance of me becoming bogged down in any exchanges with Christian
                    much as I think he should not have expressed such derogatory remarks
                    about me when he knows little of me and who I am.
                    >
                    > I am not a horrible human.
                    >
                  • mickeymouse
                    i hear you on that one, eve the worst peopl that i know around here is not that bad, mabe after reading what the rest of the posting from last night, i just
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 9, 2006
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                                       i hear you on that one, eve the worst peopl that i know around here is not that bad,  mabe after reading what the rest of the posting from last night, i just shake my head they dont know sqwat, i mean think of this the peopl who work at the ontario disbaled office even them they dont realy understand and treat you like well you may get the rogh ideal,
                       
                                        im hear like sittung back and listining to the  words and such i agin just shake my head and like okyyyy
                                       mabr i should doe the medatation to , let them yak,yak amonks them selfs, as you can see im not bothing with them, i may thow the odd coment to the beter pepopl about it thats
                       
                      -------Original Message-------
                       
                      Date: 02/09/06 03:24:50
                      Subject: Re: [LAMI.US] Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..
                       
                      I've been this group for about two or more years now, long before mickeymouse showed up.
                       
                      And your remarks to mickeymouse are about as disparaging as anything I've ever read anywhere in my entire 40 years on this planet. Nothing I've ever said to you could hold a candle to what you've written about her.
                       
                      As for what I know about you, I know enough.
                       
                      Christian

                      John Belisle <joniain@...> wrote:
                      Hi Christian,
                      I find it strange that you should write this. You do not know me nor anything about me really.

                      As far as I can remember you were not subscribed to this group when I had the altercations with mickeymouse and there has been nothing in my recent postings that were in any way directed at yourself nor even Josney for that matter that could lead you to such a conclusion.

                      However I am an intelligent person and a mature citizen so it doesn't matter to me what you think of me but I understood that the terms and conditions of this group were such that they discourage such disparaging remarks as you have made about me.


                      LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                      Message: 6
                      Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:58:51 -0500 (EST)
                      From: Christian Bobak
                      Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..

                      John is a horrible human being. Josney is only weird.

                      What makes you think I "support" anyone?

                      Mind your own business.

                      Christian

                      no-worries@... wrote:
                      Strange how you support Josney but not John. Not that I care for his arrogance but I find somewhat less to object to in outspokenness than in playing silly-Bs as Josney has done deliberately and MM does because she can't help it. Be consistent!


                      > Oh, I'm sure he's turned on me already.
                      >
                      > I don't care. He can turn on me all he wants. It
                      > won't affect me in the slightest. I can handle
                      > anything he has to dish out. I'm just sick of him
                      > picking on others. That's what bothers me.


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                    • Christian Bobak
                      Could somebody give that turntable a nudge? I can hear the record skipping. Christian ... __________________________________________________________ Find your
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 9, 2006
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                        Could somebody give that turntable a nudge? I can hear
                        the record skipping.

                        Christian


                        --- John Belisle <joniain@...> wrote:

                        > Hi Justin,
                        > Haven't heard from you for a long time but as you
                        > are probably aware I have not been reading regularly
                        > nor posting frequently over the past year.
                        >
                        > It is not at all surprising that you are getting
                        > pissed off by the posts that are being written here
                        > with such abandon.
                        >
                        > They are too lazy to cut out all the endless
                        > quotations that are no longer required the
                        > consequence of which is that each mailing is of an
                        > enormous length.
                        >
                        > As I asked when I posted a couple of weeks ago,
                        > should I be surprised that after a year perhaps a
                        > little longer this thread is still continuing and as
                        > several of you have pointed out the Disney character
                        > is kept in the forefront and limelight at all times.
                        > Practically dominating the English speaking postings
                        > over the last couple of weeks that I have looked
                        > with any regularity.
                        >
                        > None of this need have happened had Mrs Lami had
                        > the courage to point out that on a language learning
                        > list it was unlikely that this lady would be able to
                        > make intelligible contributions to those who were
                        > fluent in English let alone be understood by people
                        > who are still learning the language. However she
                        > chose not to exercise her rights as the list owner
                        > and allowed herself to put the desires of this
                        > person before all else.
                        >
                        > List members who had been happy interacting with
                        > each other on a wide range of topics asked that the
                        > situation be sorted out as it was clear that a
                        > language list was not the best or even the correct
                        > place for this person to be expressing her
                        > deviousness. Is army took no action and the Disney
                        > character was allowed was allowed to continue her
                        > membership the outcome of which is clear for all to
                        > see.
                        > In British schools it is common practice for a
                        > disruptive pupils to be expelled and of all the list
                        > that I have been on in the 11 years that I have been
                        > on the Internet I have never seen or come across a
                        > group or list where one member has been allowed to
                        > create so much disharmony and cause so many
                        > arguments as is the case here.
                        >
                        > There is little shouting going on on the list but
                        > there is an awful lot of aaaaaaa AAAAAAAA and much
                        > coughing which seems to me quite pointless.
                        >
                        > You have shouted "HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR? GET A
                        > LIFE!!!!!!!" (at least I understand that capital
                        > letters mean a shouting) so I think you have made
                        > yourself quite clear Justin whether or not you will
                        > be heeded is of course another matter.
                        >
                        > I notice from the postings over the last few weeks
                        > that I have been paying attention to them that some
                        > of our good members including Dr Nick have, like
                        > yourself, have too become fed up with it. They did
                        > the only thing that was possible for them to do
                        > since Mrs Lami put the requirements of the disabled
                        > member before the wishes of the majority of our
                        > members. Not a very democratic thing to do I don't
                        > think.
                        >
                        > I fervently hope that the situation is going to
                        > improve for everyone's sake because this used to be
                        > an interesting place to be with some diverse and
                        > useful subjects, topics and interactions between our
                        > posters.






                        __________________________________________________________
                        Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
                      • no-worries@bugger-all.com
                        They aretoo lazy to cut out all the endless quotations that are no longer required theconsequence of which is that each mailing is of an enormous length. ^John
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 9, 2006
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                          They aretoo lazy to cut out all the endless quotations that are no longer required theconsequence of which is that each mailing is of an enormous length.
                          ^John
                           
                          I remember a 'shouting match' about 'hiding my words' for doing precisely that! Followed of course by even more abuse for pointing out that it was normal courtesy.
                          ^
                          As I asked when I posted a couple of weeks ago, shouldI be surprised that after a year perhaps a little longer this thread is stillcontinuing and as several of you have pointed out the Disney character iskept in the forefront and limelight at all times. Practically dominating theEnglish speaking postings over the last couple of weeks that I have lookedwith any regularity.
                          ^John
                           
                          Who now has a childhood affliction some countries do not recognise as existing, another for no good reason that should have no effect on posting ability at all and one that should make the I/Net too difficult to understand!

                          "The Rich are the Pensioners of the Poor" - Adam Smith

                        • no-worries@bugger-all.com
                          As I asked when I posted a couple of weeks ago, shouldI be surprised that after a year perhaps a little longer this thread is stillcontinuing and as several of
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 9, 2006
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                            As I asked when I posted a couple of weeks ago, shouldI be surprised that after a year perhaps a little longer this thread is stillcontinuing and as several of you have pointed out the Disney character iskept in the forefront and limelight at all times. Practically dominating theEnglish speaking postings over the last couple of weeks that I have lookedwith any regularity.
                             
                            That rubbish was more than a year ago surely? Two at least? Also at least, it's brought me back to sanity in a full circle. I often think that if we could see a lot of those Biblical 'Take up thy bed and walk' miracles they were actually more like 'Get up, you lazy sod before I cripple you for real'. And who knows considering some of the terrorists Jesus hung around with?

                            Now, having regained my sanity, I reason 'thuswise': we have a mature woman with two children who I recall once accused me of beating women up because I said men should not be afraid to defend themselves against violent women, before launching into a sob-story about herself being beaten up.

                            Serious mental disability usually comes with physical: they look the part and often act the part and don't take care of themselves. Those last apply also to several schizophrenic conditions. What kind of man wants a twitching mumbling incoherent and above all ugly - considering where she comes from - woman? And hangs around long enough to spawn a couple of kids? The same kind who thinks nothing of belting her when she gets out of line? Methinketh not. Two men are even less likely! Besides, gibbering idiots and cackling cretins aren't up to I/Net abilities.

                            There are spell checkers, grammar checkers, editors and speech interpretors for the blind & disabled. If she's under welfare she might even be entitled to put in for one. Not a sausage! I've seen posts with a quoted line a couple above miscopied. She won't even bother with cut & paste.

                            What did we get for the natural response to her presentation? Indignant outrage at the mere suggestion anything might be wrong. For offers to help? On le sait, n'est-ce pas? for asking what the problem was? ...

                            My grandmother never got to the "I know you were don't deny it" stage, but they used to say old women 'turned wicked' and I can understand how some would be taken for witches, because she did get to "If you've got something to say, say it to my face" about conversations that had nothing at all to do with her. Often, I suspect now, because it wasn't about her and she everything should be. And she could make an argument with my mother over nothing last for days (over me probably, not that fatherless kids were unusual, though I was a little young for a war-loss - better don't ask which side - child). It wasn't Alzheimer's and it wasn't Paranoid Schizophrenia. But it was getting that way, mildly. I went out with one of them for three years.

                            Untreated, PS took Elaine about six months to get herself compulsorally hospitalised unless suicide attempts or some resurgence of intelligence got her back on drugs. That's why I don't think this is untreated PS. Besides, would Welfare leave children with that? Surely treatment would be a condition of keeping them? What then? I think her attitude shows it and I thought so then until I let all this latest garbage with Michael soften my brain.

                            Yes something is wrong. Yes, she may well be retarded in the literal sense of behaving like a petulant teenager, pleasant enough as long as never crossed, bearing an eternal grudge if she is. But whatever it is, she's spent a lifetime milking it dry throwing tantrums of self-pity getting everything done for her so she can avoid exerting herself. Consequently, she's probably ten times worse than when she started with maybe only dyslexia or a bit backward or even just bad education. Were she as daft as made out to excuse the gibberish, they wouldn't let out without a keeper.

                            So basically it's just "Can't bother, won't bother and you can't make me because I'm a helpless cripple and I'll scream and scream until my brain boils if you try". If she really were half she claims, she wouldn't be where she is or act as she did. That's why that sort and that sort of feminist gets up my nose: they are so busy screaming what they can't do that the nasty unfair world expects them to that they bugger up the rest of their class trying to get on with doing it!

                            Retarded probably: done a very good job of retarding herself. Subnormal? Doubt it, always did doubt it. Too damned clever at constructing innuendo just vague enough not to know what they're about (since they're not 'about' anything) and avoiding awkward questions with a diversionary tantrum.

                            Why I've got myself drawn into all these leading questions just to play the same game of being construed to fit preconceptions, imagining anybody would care except for us all to stop it, the gods of stupidity know.

                            If you want a good idiot-roast, you should look at the group that cats&dogs thing came from. The heading is for one Joseph K Lee bragging he's a berk - sorry, has a Berkely degree - who pesters it with how Jesus got him through enough troubles in a short life that were I him I'd be asking 'God' why he allowed them in the first place, but the initial content is serious answer to rubbish about personal friendships with 'God'.

                            My emailer is undergoing upgrade - ie more often buggered than not - so I had to go to Yaboo and I find that slower, but I see a lot addressed to him and a lot from him, so smell roasting idiot. Interesting that women's sarcasm is usually much funnier than men's, though I learnt a lot from a group of 'bitchy witches' and my version of equality is more feminine than feminist.

                            "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them" - Ray Bradbury

                          • mickeymouse
                            hay crition!, i tyred to nuge the turne table agin but the record is to damageed, its just to old, needs replacing, good one crition ... From:
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 9, 2006
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                                               hay crition!,
                               
                                              i tyred to nuge the turne table agin but the record is to damageed, its just to old, needs replacing, good one crition 
                               
                              -------Original Message-------
                               
                              Date: 02/09/06 16:47:03
                              Subject: Re: [LAMI.US] Re: Arguing on the internet..
                               

                              "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them" - Ray Bradbury

                               
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                            • Michael
                              John, For someone who has used so many disparaging remarks against a number of people, people who would constantly type in CAPITALS or were told they were
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 9, 2006
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                                John,

                                For someone who has used so many disparaging remarks against a number
                                of people, people who would constantly type in CAPITALS or were told
                                they were subnormal, idiots, cretins, should be dead, etc, it seems
                                somewhat bizarre that you would now get all sensitive over someone
                                making such an not entirely inaccurate comment about you, or caesar
                                to for that matter.

                                Odd that the biggest insulters here would suddenly get so upset when
                                the tables are briefly tunred...

                                Michael.

                                --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle <joniain@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Christian,
                                > I find it strange that you should write this. You do not know me
                                nor anything about me really.
                                >
                                > As far as I can remember you were not subscribed to this group when
                                I had the altercations with mickeymouse and there has been nothing in
                                my recent postings that were in any way directed at yourself nor even
                                Josney for that matter that could lead you to such a conclusion.
                                >
                                > However I am an intelligent person and a mature citizen so it
                                doesn't matter to me what you think of me but I understood that the
                                terms and conditions of this group were such that they discourage
                                such disparaging remarks as you have made about me.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                > Message: 6
                                > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:58:51 -0500 (EST)
                                > From: Christian Bobak
                                > Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..
                                >
                                > John is a horrible human being. Josney is only weird.
                                >
                                > What makes you think I "support" anyone?
                                >
                                > Mind your own business.
                                >
                                > Christian
                                >
                                > no-worries@... wrote:
                                > Strange how you support Josney but not John. Not that I care
                                for his arrogance but I find somewhat less to object to in
                                outspokenness than in playing silly-Bs as Josney has done
                                deliberately and MM does because she can't help it. Be consistent!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > > Oh, I'm sure he's turned on me already.
                                > >
                                > > I don't care. He can turn on me all he wants. It
                                > > won't affect me in the slightest. I can handle
                                > > anything he has to dish out. I'm just sick of him
                                > > picking on others. That's what bothers me.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Best wishes,
                                > joniain
                                > Visit my fascinating site
                                > http://www.iains-images.co.uk
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide
                                with voicemail
                                >
                              • John Belisle
                                Hi Michael, The only thing that is odd about it is your assumption that I was upset by it. I do not get upset at all by e-mails. It is just that the English
                                Message 15 of 16 , Feb 19, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Michael,

                                  The only thing that is odd about it is your assumption that I was upset by it.

                                  I do not get upset at all by e-mails. It is just that the English language when written allows one to make any interpretation that suits their fancy.

                                  Sometimes I write words and people think that I am angry when they read it but had they been sitting beside me when I wrote it they would know that I was not. I think this may be what has happened in your case. By reading it you think that the author is personally upset that he/she is not necessarily accept that all. The response is an accurate reflection of what they want to say in reply to what has been written but there is no emotional expression was in the person themselves. People know me personally will be the first to let you know that I am a person who has hardly any feeling and sees too many things in black and white were two other people there and various shades of grey areas.

                                  Since you have been reading my postings for so long I thought perhaps you would understand that what I write to strangers is purely words on the screen the accuracy of which comes from what I have learned during my life and what I believe myself. Please be assured there is hardly ever any emotional content which is probably why so many other people appear to become emotional the consequence of which is that they get upset about what I write.


                                  LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                  Message: 14
                                  Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 03:48:16 -0000
                                  From: "Michael"
                                  Subject: Re: Arguing on the internet..John

                                  John,

                                  For someone who has used so many disparaging remarks against a number
                                  of people, people who would constantly type in CAPITALS or were told
                                  they were subnormal, idiots, cretins, should be dead, etc, it seems
                                  somewhat bizarre that you would now get all sensitive over someone
                                  making such an not entirely inaccurate comment about you, or caesar
                                  to for that matter.

                                  Odd that the biggest insulters here would suddenly get so upset when
                                  the tables are briefly tunred...

                                  Michael.

                                  --- In LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com, John Belisle
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Christian,
                                  > I find it strange that you should write this. You do not know me
                                  nor anything about me really.
                                  >
                                  > As far as I can remember you were not subscribed to this group when
                                  I had the altercations with mickeymouse and there has been nothing in
                                  my recent postings that were in any way directed at yourself nor even
                                  Josney for that matter that could lead you to such a conclusion.
                                  >
                                  > However I am an intelligent person and a mature citizen so it
                                  doesn't matter to me what you think of me but I understood that the
                                  terms and conditions of this group were such that they discourage
                                  such disparaging remarks as you have made about me.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                  > Message: 6
                                  > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:58:51 -0500 (EST)
                                  > From: Christian Bobak
                                  > Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..
                                  >
                                  > John is a horrible human being. Josney is only weird.
                                  >
                                  > What makes you think I "support" anyone?
                                  >
                                  > Mind your own business.
                                  >
                                  > Christian
                                  >
                                  > no-worries@... wrote:
                                  > Strange how you support Josney but not John. Not that I care
                                  for his arrogance but I find somewhat less to object to in
                                  outspokenness than in playing silly-Bs as Josney has done
                                  deliberately and MM does because she can't help it. Be consistent!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > Oh, I'm sure he's turned on me already.
                                  > >
                                  > > I don't care. He can turn on me all he wants. It
                                  > > won't affect me in the slightest. I can handle
                                  > > anything he has to dish out. I'm just sick of him
                                  > > picking on others. That's what bothers me.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Best wishes,
                                  > joniain
                                  > Visit my fascinating site
                                  > http://www.iains-images.co.uk
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide
                                  with voicemail
                                  >









                                  --
                                  Best wishes,
                                  joniain
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                                • John Belisle
                                  Dear no worries, Among other things I certainly did. This was some long time ago now when a person on the list was shouting and they had no reason whatsoever
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Feb 20, 2006
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                                    Dear no worries,

                                    Among other things I certainly did. This was some long time ago now when a person on the list was shouting and they had no reason whatsoever for doing so. Nobody had shouted at them. In fact as I remember it they were responding to postings that were all in lowercase.

                                    Instead of doing what they were asked they engaged in a very long thread which was largely this person trying to mitigate their shouting and (probably through a lack of intelligence) at the same time continually denying that they were doing it. I was not the only Forster who had pointed out to them that typing in all capitals on these lists was the way people indicated that they were raising their voice and that this was a widely accepted feature of the Internet. I went to authoritative web sites and cut and pasted various pieces supporting my point of view in an effort to help them understand but unfortunately I think they had reached the point where they felt that by bringing themselves into line with common practice they would lose face, pride or something.

                                    The whole thing was quite ridiculous but at that time I had plenty free time on my hands so I ran with it to see how far the thread would stretch.

                                    They didn't reckon on my tenacity but eventually I'm sure they discovered the error of their ways.

                                    Thank you for reducing the quoted text to leave only what was necessary. I am running with the digest and very few people bother to delete what is not necessary to their own response, the consequence of which is that there are postings on here where a 10 word reply can include up to 1500 words of quoted text after it. People are very lazy and inconsiderate. Formulated properly the digest would take up about one quarter to one third of the amount being currently posted. I used to always have individual e-mails and this problem is much easier to handle when received in that format rather than the digest.


                                    LanguagesAndMore@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                    Message: 13
                                    Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:31:48 GMT
                                    From: no-worries@...
                                    Subject: Re: Re: Arguing on the internet..John

                                    John, we have both fallen foul of being told we are 'angry', 'raving',
                                    'insulting' and so on for quietly pointing facts out and raising questions.
                                    "One sees one's own faults in others first". Did you call somebody a moron for
                                    refusing to take Caps Lock off? If so, good for you; my entire first board did:
                                    it is appalling bad manners to the board, compounded with the arrogance of
                                    refusal to do when in Rome as the Romans.





                                    Hi Michael,

                                    The only thing that is odd about it is your assumption thatI was upset by it.

                                    I do not get upset at all by e-mails. It is justthat the English language when
                                    written allows one to make any interpretationthat suits their fancy.



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                                    I would like to let all of you know that I would like to open up a Language Center in Southwest Detroit (Mexican Town) this summer of 2006, but to especially include an academic, bilingual preschool.

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