1104The Spirit Never Dies
- Oct 15, 2013
The Spirit Never Dies
By Imam W. Deen Mohammed (raa)
We can't stop because the spirit does not die if it's devoted to G'd's pleasure. And G'd's pleasure is doing what's good for mankind in the world [and] taking care of the world that He created for your mind. That's His pleasure. And if you stay devoted to His pleasure then your spirit never dies. Your body dies but your spirit is still strong as ever. So the divine justice is that that spirit lives. Now G'd does not give us knowledge of how it survives this physical world. He doesn't give us that and we shouldn't even try to form any language to explain that. All we can say is what we know and what we know is that that spirit never dies unless you are dead already. If you are dead already that spirit dies with your dead body. Body gone, spirit gone. But if your spirit had been freed before you died, freed from that body, even free from the physical universe and you were living still with a strong desire to serve your Lord, now wouldn't that be an unjust Lord to cut you off, abort you like that. That would be an abortion. So I know that there is a reality higher than this reality we know here and I think G'd has already put me in it and when this is closed out, I think I'll be free in another dimension. I am not saying this to spook you all up. In fact, I don't care to say it to you really. I'm just saying it because it is conversation and it's good conversation for me. But I have confidence that G'd is not that kind of G'd, that He would turn your life on and then at that particular point when your life has been turned on to really serve Him in a bigger reality, then He finishes and aborts you [and He] won't give you a chance to live your aspirations or to continue your work in service to Him. That's why He says, "Enter you among My servants, Enter you My paradise". It's true of this side and also the other side. So one thing we do know of the other side is that the other side gives us an opportunity to do more work. And that's a man's happiness. A real man's happiness is his work. Jesus Christ, when he was going about his business, and his business in the world was to serve his job in his mission, he said to [a person who] interrupted him "I have to be about my father's business". Now when he said that he identified himself as a worker on earth for his father in his father's business.
Isn't that the same thing observed of Prophet Muhammed? [They have the] same spirit. Allah said to him that all of us are G'd's servants. A slave better be about his father's business. Father here means his boss. He had better be about his father's business [because] he knows the consequences of not being about his father's business. Right away, when you say slave you know his whole life. His whole life is a life in service under his master. One word just opens up his whole life because you know his master isn't going to give him any freedom to do anything other than that. You may say, well he is Satchmo Armstrong or she's Billie Holiday. No, if he's a slave, there is no Satchmo Armstrong there, there is no Billie Holiday there. Because the slave master doesn't have that kind of situation for you to be a Billie Holiday or Satchmo Armstrong. So you don't have any other profession, you have no other outlet, you have no other freedom. You are a slave to your master. That's the way the servants of G'd are, but He gives you so much to do. He wants you to express the fullness of your capacity and your potential to serve Him in the world that He created. So [with] a different kind of master a slave can be a Billie Holiday and at the same time be on the path working hard for G'd. I think the saying goes like this for the Church persons, I'd rather be a servant or a doorman in the house of the Lord than to be in the highest position in the world. It really means: I'd rather be free and have little than to be man's slave and have the world.
SG: Imam, you once said...a few years back...that Jesus was an enthusiast.
IWDM: Yes, that's what my father told us. He said Mr. Fard [whom he referred to as "Our Savior"] told him that Jesus was not even a major prophet, that he was a religious enthusiast. He said that was what Mr. Fard told him. I believe that he told him that, but knowing Mr. Fard now, as I know him, if he told him that he told him that to try to free them from Jesus Christ. He knew that he had won their hearts and that if he'd put Jesus down, they would also put him down. He saw Jesus, in their hearts, as a problem for Islam because in the Church they had Jesus as the son of G'd and G'd. So I believe that Mr. Fard really told him that, but I know Mr. Fard loved Jesus Christ and knew Jesus Christ just as what the Qur'an says he was, as a Prophet and a Messenger and as a Spirit and a Word from G'd. I know he believes that. But the kind of man he was, a man inspired by Sufism to use strategies and signs rather than straight talk to bring a people from a situation that seems almost impossible, to put them on the path of G'd. I don't believe he was a Sufi himself, but I know he read up on the Sufis. He knew their philosophy and their strategy and I do believe that he applied them. Not only do I know that, I know also that the Honorable Elijah Mohammed said that Mr. Fard told him and others too, not just him, but Mr. Fard told those close to him in his circle of associates that he had where my father was a special guy in that circle; he told them that the one who was given charge of Mary in the Bible, Zakariyyah, my father said he told them that "if you are looking for me I'm in Zakariyyah". [Mr. Fard was referring to] the book of the Bible called Zakariyyah. He said that more than once but the last time I heard it was after I had been accepted back and it was at his dinner table. So later on I had a hunch [or] something pushing me like a hunch that: I better read Zakariyyah, something must be there. So I read it. I had read it before, but I was never looking for something that would help me understand Mr. Fard's presence among us better. So I read it and you know the same thing is in the Qur'an that's in the Bible; that [Zakirayyah] was not to use his own thinking in taking care of Mary. The sign of how he was going to be successful in taking care of Mary was that he should fast and while fasting he should not speak to anybody except by signs, ilia ramza. That's the Qur'an and it means "except by signs". But there are different signs. Ramza is a sign. It means hints that are not spoken, you give hints without speaking or the speaking itself is speaking to something else and you have to be turned on to the kind of thinking that is desired in this situation to know that this is speaking over here but that's not the reality; that [speech] is signaling us to another reality. So you take that language as signals or signs [that are] signaling you to go to another reality, not the reality you are looking at here...."Do not speak except by signs". Ilia ramza.
Question: Zakariyyah, Mary was put in his care. So Mr. Fard, was he kind of in that role with what he was trying to do?
IWDM: Yes, exactly. She's a woman, Maryam, peace be on her and as a figure she represents the innocence in the Church or the innocence in the congregation of Jesus Christ. Now, mind you, she gives birth to him, so she was before him. So that's a pure order of religious people that had nothing but good intentions. They were very righteous people devoted to serving G'd and finding what He wanted for them on this planet earth. They wanted to know Where do you want us to go G'd? Mary represents that. In Catholicism isn't Mary the Church? She is the church of Jesus Christ. Although Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, she is also the Church. When Jesus was on the cross leaving them, passing away, he said, "Behold your mother". She was in the crowd. He meant don't look at me any more, I'm gone. Behold your mother. When Jesus left, what did he leave with them except the congregation, the Church and they call it Mary. The Church was Jesus Christ, but it was also Mary. These Catholics that are with us, the Focolare, they really know [or] identify Mary as the Church. So really it's the congregation of the righteous devoted believers. When you have people righteously devoted to G'd you can't change them, you can't take them away from that devotion. Before Christianity they were in this devotion [and] the people remained in that devotion. They were distinguished from the Jews because they were of this mind set. Most of the Jews were trying to figure out how to get the world, but these people were not of that kind of spirit. They were pious worshippers of G'd. The Jews have always had among them that kind of people who were spiritual more than material. [These people] were devoted to serving G'd's Will on this earth and tried to find out what does He want for mankind on this earth, that was their search. So Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ is that people, and there is evidence in research by archeologists and others who were trying to find more reality to support the beginning of Jesus Christ and his following and they came up with the name Essence. They believe that the people who originally formed to support the leadership of Jesus Christ were people called Essence. I don't know if they were called Essences or not, but I like the language because Essence says inherent qualities, inherent life before it is decorated before it becomes what we see in the world. So if that's what he was from, then he was from original creation and both the Qur'an and the Bible trace Jesus's beginning back to original creation. The Bible says that he was of Joseph and there was this parent and that parent, going on back to Adam; it says Adam who was created by G'd. The Christian Church says that Jesus Christ is the second Adam. His origin is traced back to Adam who was not created by the world or by man, but was created by G'd. So this is the Mary and the Jesus. The Mary is the pure following, unadulterated, [they] have not been touch by man of this world and they were praying for G'd to show them the way. G'd answered their prayers with the blessings of Jesus Christ. A man who was not moved or motivated by the world but only by his pure essence and he became a Spirit and a Word in the world. That's Jesus Christ. I could get on TV and preach this and have a big following if you all can support me and get me a channel.
SG: I will support you, I will do everything I can.
IWDM: I guarantee you I could get a big, big following, but I can't do that. G'd has another work assigned me. But I guarantee you it would be a big following. People from on high will come and join us.
SG: Jesus Christ, in what you just explained to us up to this point, [of] him not being taught of the world then coming into the Spirit of G'd. The Qur'an also makes mention that G'd put His Spirit into him, into Jesus Christ. Now in my thinking, I see you in that light. You are a universal man. G'd's Spirit is into you.
IWDM: I understand. Jesus Christ saw himself in Adam and I see myself in Adam not in Jesus Christ. I see myself in Adam and I see myself in Muhammed. Because Allah created Muhammed. This isn't the Muhammed that was born of flesh and blood from his mother Aaminah; this is the Muhammed that Allah created. Allah created Muhammed. And He can create whatever He wills.
IWDM: Some things I tell you all I have no proof of, but to me it's reality. I know that Allah has shown me Muhammed's life, the man in his complete picture. And his complete picture was much too much for those newly converted pagans that he was preaching to when he was on earth. It has to come in time and it's just coming right now. The scholars in Islam are coming to see Prophet Muhammed better. And a lot of them are stopping this crazy hang up they have with the West where they have to be in some kind of tug-of-war with the West. A lot of them are giving that up, men and women, more women scholars than men. They are giving it up and they are starting to free their mind to see the big field of work that Allah opened up to us through His servant Muhammed, the last Prophet. So I see him in his big dimension. The old man, Muhammed Abdullah, my friend and my father's friend before mine, he was very dissatisfied with the way the Ahmadiyyahs perceived the Prophet Muhammed. And The Mufti Kuftaro, who passed recently, same thing, he was very, very alone almost among Muslims leaders of the world when it came to having the real picture of Prophet Muhammed in his mind. Muhammed was much bigger than the Muhammed that the Muslim world has given us, in the mind of Kuftaro and also in the mind of Muhammed Abdullah. I just mentioned them, but I believe there are others too that I have gotten acquainted with, one or two others that I felt that from.
This is a strange side of my life that I am sharing with you all right now. I have come to know Muhammed so completely and so clearly that I feel there is nothing in his life that I don't know. Now that's strange for me to believe as a rational person, but that kind of reality is with me. Not only him [but] Mr. Fard too. If G'd is with you whatever G'd can see He can give it to you. The language is real, the language I am giving you-the logic, there is logic for it-[it's real]. But if your faith isn't strong enough you [may] say, Oh no that didn't happen. Well you all can say, that didn't happen. Then please don't even comment now. You could say, Oh that never happened. I am not hurt. I am not made uncomfortable. I don't think, Oh they didn't believe me. That's fine. [Whether] you guys believe me or not, I like you just as you are. So I am sharing this with you all because this is my reality. I studied Mr. Fard and I think I know [his whole life] better than anybody on earth. I know all about him and the same thing for Muhammed the Prophet, thirteen or fourteen hundred years before Mr. Fard, Jesus Christ too.
SG: Brother Imam, I remember when you said a long time ago and you made this statement and I accepted it then and I accept it now. And that is when you said that, in reference to the prophets you were talking about, and you said that we should not look for the prophets of yesterday that have been passed on and gone two thousand years ago to come back here, but if you believe in G'd, all Allah has to do is place what that prophet had in him into another person and when you look out there and you see them operating and you see them working, [and you may say] Oh he looks just like Jesus or he reminds me of Muhammed. And that's the way Allah can put it into us. So if we study the scriptures and the history and the Prophet's life, and if we observe you and listen to what you are saying, we shouldn't have no doubt. I don't have any.
IWDM: Thank you. Praise be to Allah. Well I said that back then, I recall. That was a long time ago and I was feeling it then. That's what I was feeling here happening inside me. I was coming from what was already an activity inside of me that was convincing me that whatever was in that person I was getting it. Not getting it to be it, but getting it to know it so I can more freely do what I had to do. That's the reality, that's my reality. So when you hear me talking about these things, scripture is my reference but not the source of my knowledge or revelation. The source of my knowledge and revelation is G'd Himself and the activity in me is the activity that is required by the nature of my own being and soul.
KM: Brother Imam...[one day] I asked you, "Who is the Son of Man?"...you said, "You already know."...I see that G'd has blessed us through you and you are that light...for humanity. We are talking about the scholars of these other countries coming to agreement, I say it is happening as result of you. You created that ripple in the water...Praise be to Allah.
IWDM: I'm a product of our experience as a people rejected and then searching for the truth like the group called the Essence, not just Muslims but Christians too, searching for the truth wanting to know where G'd wants me to take this life. The Bible said that Jesus's mother was told to flee. They were pursuing her and they were pursuing her [because] they wanted to get rid of her child. So she was told to "flee to Egypt with your child". By some strange happening G'd put Mr. Fard in our life and Mr. Fard took us to Egypt with our lives. And for a people of Essence nature, who are searching for the destiny that G'd wants for us on this earth, [struggling with] questions [that are] unanswered and some that appeared to be unanswerable is the worse form of oppression. It is the most powerful form of oppression.
So for our mind we were under great oppression. Allah as a planner put Mr. Fard in our lives and then Mr. Fard put us in this very difficult religion to understand [or] to make sense of. We were under that and that was the new oppressor on us. Not on those who just wanted to be big-shots that wanted to think they were better than other people: Black Power, Black Supremacy, and all of that kind of stuff. No, [there was only oppression on the minds of] the real serious ones who wanted understanding and wanted that understanding to be approved by G'd. That's us in the belly of the whale or us in oppressive Egypt where the language confounds us and defeats every effort of our rational mind to arrive at the answer we want. This is the new oppressor, this is the new Egypt. Flee to Egypt with your child.
Jesus Christ says and I come treading the wine press alone. The wine press: [that means] pressure. The wine press alone. The juice of the grapes is going to be made wine and wine tastes good and even makes your insides feel good. It makes you feel so good inside, but that same wine can befog your mind. I come pressing the wine press alone. So what is the Bible saying and what am I saying here now? That the effect of that kind of teaching, that is so difficult to understand, on your mind can be like wine and take you out of your right mind. But if you can keep your good mind and work with the ideas and symbols that can take away your good senses and make you dizzy in your head; if you can remain faithful and rational long enough, eventually you will be able to drink this and it will have no effect on you to befog your mind. The effect would be to clear your mind. The same thing that would make the average non-believer or misguided person drunk, won't make you drunk, it clears up your senses. And Jesus Christ said "I come treading the wine press alone". [He is saying] that the innocence that I got is what's needed to bring the truth out of these cloudy matters and if you don't have this innocence you can't do it. Leave it only to my innocence, nobody else can do it. And that's the truth. Look how many we had of all these black coffee drinkers and fasting brothers in the Nation of Islam, crazy Jabbar [or] Herbert, and all these trying to get the knowledge and my brother going to Egypt for Arabic and he comes back home and has nothing for us, nothing to help us. But Wallace D. Mohammed, the one that was named, the only one that was able to drink the wine and clear up his head. Praise be to Allah.
SG: Brother Imam would I be correct in my thinking if I think that we [should] see you [as] being the answer to Abraham's prayer and [that] Allah has given us one that is able to teach us the language and the meaning of scripture the wisdom, not just for us as African-Americans but you teach it for all of us?
IWDM: [I understand your question,] but see, the answer to that was given when Muhammed came into his mission. When Muhammed came into his mission the answer for all the world was given. But Muhammed said that darkness is going to come on his own following and as it began in the first time that is how it will be repeated, [or that is how it will] come again. And he said [it will come again] on the poor [meaning after darkness has come on his following and the light comes on again, the poor will be the first to receive and benefit from the light]. And the poor [mentioned] in scripture are not just the poor in material, they are the poor in knowledge of scripture. They are also the poor. So those who think they know, they can't get it. They are off track. They already think they know, so they can't get it. But [for] the poor person, in a time of mental agony and strain for religious thinking in the world and in [Muhammed's] following, in that time of darkness and poverty, the spirit shall move on the face of the water and G'd is going to say, "Let there be light" and the world is regenerated. Praise be to Allah. I know it's a regeneration for us and for us it's the first time we've come into the clear knowledge of the world, but I do suspect that what has happened to us is the opportunity for a new start, a new life on this planet earth for all the Muslims in the world.
SG: Imam, do you think the other Muslims in the world are going to come around to accepting your understanding and what Allah has blessed you with?
IWDM: Well you know what the spirit is moving me to give you as a reply? I will tell you what the spirit is moving me right now to give you as a reply: no comment, they are not worth it. They are not worth us even wondering if they are going to come or go north or south or east or west or stay where they are or find a deliverer among themselves or look at us and get direction. They are not worth it. They are not worth us worrying about their circumstances or whether they are going to support us or not. So that tells me that G'd doesn't want us to waste our time even thinking about that. I have no desire [and] I am not moved in any way to even reflect on such thoughts. We just do what we have to do and Allah will take care of the rest. And I think it's because the shape they are in right now, [we are] better off without them.