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Re: [LandCafe] Re: Georgism and income tax.

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  • Dan Sullivan
    ... You are reading more into what I said than is there, and you are doing so as a conservative. In doing so, You almost illustrate my point. There is a
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 1, 2010
      On 1 Mar 2010 at 7:35, DavidH wrote:

      > Dan said:
      > >
      > > Basically, each side attacks those in the principled middle as patsies of
      > > the other side while at the same time trying to ride on any successes
      > > the principled middle produces. We see, for example, conservatives
      > > denouncing liberals as socialist and socialists denouncing them as
      > > patsies of the establishment, when they are clearly neither.

      > Are you giving liberals the credit of being "the principled middle"?
      > I'd put liberals to the left of center. More importantly, what usually
      > gets promoted as the middle isn't the principled middle so much as the
      > privileged middle, which gives us the worst of both worlds. See: Obama
      > -- bigger banks AND bigger government!

      You are reading more into what I said than is there, and you are doing
      so as a conservative. In doing so, You almost illustrate my point. There
      is a principled middle and an establishment middle that are quite
      different. Whether they are "left of center" demographically is beside
      the point. The point is whether or not they are to the left or right of their
      own principles.

      The liberals I was talking about was the original liberals, who were
      definitely left of center, but to the right of the socialists who derided
      them. The socialists then co-opted classical liberalism by calling
      themselves liberals. They did the same thing to progressives, and are
      now doing the same thing to Greens, at least in the United States. They
      were aided in their efforts by conservatives who denounced the original
      liberals and progressives as socialists, and who denounced the Greens
      as socialists long before the socialists had co-opted the green
      movement.

      Another good example of the principled middle is Martin Luther King,
      who was branded as a fellow traveler with communists by J. Edgar
      Hoover and was denounced by socialists as an apologist for capitalism.

      > There is a populist middle, where left and right both agree that
      > privilege of either kind is bad, and smaller is better. But that isn't
      > the middle talked about by the Beltway pundits.

      The establishment middle is based on power, and the principled middle
      is based on truth. The populist middle is in between, because they want
      power and suppose themselves to have the truth. In reality, the populist
      middle says whatever sounds popular. For example, nobody is as quick
      to denounce real estate taxes as the populist middle.

      -ds
    • Harry Pollard
      I have been a liberal all my life. That is, I support free trade and a free market, LVT, the ending of privilege, equality of all under the law, etc, etc. My
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 1, 2010

        I have been a liberal all my life. That is, I support free trade and a free market, LVT, the ending of privilege, equality of all under the law, etc, etc.

         

        My ‘name’ has been co-opted by various other groups, probably because it has been a good name, but I remain the same – a genuine liberal – and to heck with the co-opters!.

         

        Harry

         

        From: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LandCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Sullivan
        Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:57 AM
        To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [LandCafe] Re: Georgism and income tax.

         

         

        On 1 Mar 2010 at 7:35, DavidH wrote:

        > Dan said:
        > >
        > > Basically, each side attacks those in the principled middle as patsies of
        > > the other side while at the same time trying to ride on any successes
        > > the principled middle produces. We see, for example, conservatives
        > > denouncing liberals as socialist and socialists denouncing them as
        > > patsies of the establishment, when they are clearly neither.

        > Are you giving liberals the credit of being "the principled middle"?
        > I'd put liberals to the left of center. More importantly, what usually
        > gets promoted as the middle isn't the principled middle so much as the
        > privileged middle, which gives us the worst of both worlds. See: Obama
        > -- bigger banks AND bigger government!

        You are reading more into what I said than is there, and you are doing
        so as a conservative. In doing so, You almost illustrate my point. There
        is a principled middle and an establishment middle that are quite
        different. Whether they are "left of center" demographically is beside
        the point. The point is whether or not they are to the left or right of their
        own principles.

        The liberals I was talking about was the original liberals, who were
        definitely left of center, but to the right of the socialists who derided
        them. The socialists then co-opted classical liberalism by calling
        themselves liberals. They did the same thing to progressives, and are
        now doing the same thing to Greens, at least in the United States. They
        were aided in their efforts by conservatives who denounced the original
        liberals and progressives as socialists, and who denounced the Greens
        as socialists long before the socialists had co-opted the green
        movement.

        Another good example of the principled middle is Martin Luther King,
        who was branded as a fellow traveler with communists by J. Edgar
        Hoover and was denounced by socialists as an apologist for capitalism.

        > There is a populist middle, where left and right both agree that
        > privilege of either kind is bad, and smaller is better. But that isn't
        > the middle talked about by the Beltway pundits.

        The establishment middle is based on power, and the principled middle
        is based on truth. The populist middle is in between, because they want
        power and suppose themselves to have the truth. In reality, the populist
        middle says whatever sounds popular. For example, nobody is as quick
        to denounce real estate taxes as the populist middle.

        -ds

      • Scott Bergeson
        Was: RE: [LandCafe] Re: Georgism and income tax. Quoting Harry Pollard on Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:53:31 -0800: ___Harry___ I have been a liberal all my life. That
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 1, 2010
          Was: RE: [LandCafe] Re: Georgism and income tax.

          Quoting Harry Pollard on Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:53:31 -0800:

          ___Harry___
          I have been a liberal all my life. That is, I support
          free trade and a free market, LVT, the ending of
          privilege, equality of all under the law, etc, etc.

          My 'name' has been co-opted by various other groups,
          probably because it has been a good name, but I remain the
          same - a genuine liberal - and to heck with the co-opters!.
          -----

          "As a supreme, if unintended, compliment, the
          enemies of the system of free enterprise have seen
          fit to appropriate its label." Joseph Schumpeter,
          according to Milton Friedman
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