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Site Value Tax Proposed by Irish Government

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  • Emer O'Siochru
    ... Site Value Tax in Programme for Government Yesterday 10th October 2009 is an
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 11, 2009
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      Site Value Tax in Programme for Government

      Yesterday 10th October 2009 is an historic day for Ireland and even the World.  On that day, the Coalition Government of the Fianna Fail and Green Party announced a revised Programme for Government  that said.

      “Starting with the necessary valuation and registration process, we will move to intorduce a Site Valuation Tax for non-agricultural land. This system will provide a fair and stable basis for offsetting stamp duty on residential property:”. (page 4)

      This is good news and let us just enjoy the prospect for a while;- time enough for the caveats. Let us congratulate all Smart Network partners, especially the Urban Forum and especially economist Dr Constantin Gurdgiev whose two research papers provided the data and analysis that  proved persuasive.

      A third research paper is planned that will sketch out the scope of a practical LVT scheme for Ireland. This will include land/site value tax levels, allowances, phasing and transitional arrangements and crucially for government, the level of taxes that might be raised.

    • Jeffery J. Smith
      ... Oh, happy day! If this were to proceed as we all might hope. what s next and how soon might it happen? What other steps must occur and when? When might it
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 11, 2009
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        On Oct 11, 2009, at 8:49 AM, Emer O'Siochru wrote:

        Site Value Tax in Programme for Government

        Yesterday 10th October 2009 is an historic day for Ireland and even the World.  On that day, the Coalition Government of the Fianna Fail and Green Party announced a revised Programme for Government  that said.

        “Starting with the necessary valuation and registration process, we will move to intorduce a Site Valuation Tax for non-agricultural land. This system will provide a fair and stable basis for offsetting stamp duty on residential property:”. (page 4)

















        Oh, happy day!

        If this were to proceed as we all might hope. what's next and how soon might it happen? What other steps must occur and when? When might it become the law of the land?

        Anything any of us could do from afar?

        SMITH, Jeffery J.
        President, Forum on Geonomics
        Land Rights course: www.course.earthrights.net
        Share Earth's worth to prosper and conserve.

      • Emer O'Siochru
        Dear Jeffrey, (copied to Smart Taxes Network) There are difficulties; not least that the coalition government also agreed to a truly nutty plan - a national
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 12, 2009
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          Dear Jeffrey, (copied to Smart Taxes Network)

          There are difficulties; not least that the coalition government also agreed to a truly nutty plan - a national assets management agency (Nama) to buy toxic property loans from our bankrupt banks at 'long term economic value'.  see our website www.smartaxes.org for more.  So one hand of the government will capture economic rent under a site value tax and the other tries to capture it for the banks under Nama.  The government is not aware of the contradiction -  or maybe they are - and it is a cynical exercise to appease the Greens!

          In theory anyway, overlooking the above, we have to finish a property mapping and registration database (cadastre) for Ireland.  This should take a year tops with the needed investment - lots of unemployed lawyers about.  We also need a land valuation map.  Again should not take longer than a year - lots of unemployed valuers about.  So not this years budget but maybe next years, at a push. 

          Dr Constantin Gurdgiev will be working on the bones of a practical schemes as I posted yesturday.  We will probably contact the government - Department of Finance -  to see how we can contribute to their working plans.  I will push it through my involvement in 'Social Partnerhsip' under the new Environmental Pillar.  I am sure that James Pike will advance it best he can in the Urban Forum; other network members likewise. 

          Our little group will meet soon to discuss next steps - we have hardly had a chance to digest the news.  Then we might have a better idea how you could help. 

          Amazingly, there has not been a knee jerk reaction against it  by the usual suspects yet but we are not holding our breath.

          regards,

          Emer



          On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Jeffery J. Smith <jjs@...> wrote:
           

          On Oct 11, 2009, at 8:49 AM, Emer O'Siochru wrote:

          Site Value Tax in Programme for Government

          Yesterday 10th October 2009 is an historic day for Ireland and even the World.  On that day, the Coalition Government of the Fianna Fail and Green Party announced a revised Programme for Government  that said.

          “Starting with the necessary valuation and registration process, we will move to intorduce a Site Valuation Tax for non-agricultural land. This system will provide a fair and stable basis for offsetting stamp duty on residential property:”. (page 4)

















          Oh, happy day!

          If this were to proceed as we all might hope. what's next and how soon might it happen? What other steps must occur and when? When might it become the law of the land?

          Anything any of us could do from afar?

          SMITH, Jeffery J.
          President, Forum on Geonomics
          Land Rights course: www.course.earthrights.net
          Share Earth's worth to prosper and conserve.


        • Jeffery J. Smith
          ... Wow! A nation where Greens need appeasing! ... Scary. This step is what de-railed the land tax in Lloyd George s budget. ... Are the media covering this?
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 12, 2009
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            On Oct 12, 2009, at 3:58 AM, Emer O'Siochru wrote:

            There are difficulties; not least that the coalition government also agreed to a truly nutty ... tax and the other tries to capture it for the banks under Nama.  The government is not aware of the contradiction -  or maybe they are - and it is a cynical exercise to appease the Greens!







            Wow! A nation where Greens need appeasing!

            In theory anyway, overlooking the above, we have to finish a property mapping and ... not this years budget but maybe next years, at a push.





            Scary. This step is what de-railed the land tax in Lloyd George's budget.

            Dr Constantin Gurdgiev will be working on the bones of a practical schemes as I ... Amazingly, there has not been a knee jerk reaction against it  by the usual suspects yet but we are not holding our breath.






            Are the media covering this?

            Would any in the Erie Left or Right like to help?

            SMITH, Jeffery J.
            President, Forum on Geonomics
            Land Rights course: www.course.earthrights.net
            Share Earth's worth to prosper and conserve.

          • Emer O'Siochru
            Jeffrey, As Dan Sullivan found out when he came here, our politics is very different to the US. Socialism is not a bad word. Indeed our Party of Government
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 12, 2009
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              Jeffrey,

              As Dan Sullivan found out when he came here, our politics is very different to the US.  Socialism is not a bad word.  Indeed our 'Party of Government' Fianna Fail (translated as Soldiers of Destiny - I kid you not) likes to call itself socialist when it wants to pander to the populace.  To be right-wing or conservative is a 'bad thing' though.

              The two leading political parties, relics of the Civil War, are both actually, conservative populist parties.  Our proportional representation electoral system often throws up coalitions hence the disproportonate power of the Greens who support land tax -so no disrespectful remarks about the Greens!. 

               We have support for land taxes from Father Sean Healy of CORI Justice - a Religious Council and support from architects and planners tired of the developer free-for -all that has destroyed our landscape and economy. 

              We in Smart Taxes Network like both land value taxes and good strong planning regulation.  There you are - completely at odds with the US land taxer.!

              It is a different universe here and it is not helpful if you do not study it in depth before you tender help or you will put your foot in it.

              But help gratefully received non the less - especially technical help in the valuation exercise itself.

               Actually funding to do the valuation studies ourselves as the government is notoriously slow to move (and this government may not last that long), would be very useful. 

              regards

              Emer




              On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Jeffery J. Smith <jjs@...> wrote:
               

              On Oct 12, 2009, at 3:58 AM, Emer O'Siochru wrote:

              There are difficulties; not least that the coalition government also agreed to a truly nutty ... tax and the other tries to capture it for the banks under Nama.  The government is not aware of the contradiction -  or maybe they are - and it is a cynical exercise to appease the Greens!







              Wow! A nation where Greens need appeasing!

              In theory anyway, overlooking the above, we have to finish a property mapping and ... not this years budget but maybe next years, at a push.





              Scary. This step is what de-railed the land tax in Lloyd George's budget.

              Dr Constantin Gurdgiev will be working on the bones of a practical schemes as I ... Amazingly, there has not been a knee jerk reaction against it  by the usual suspects yet but we are not holding our breath.






              Are the media covering this?

              Would any in the Erie Left or Right like to help?

              SMITH, Jeffery J.
              President, Forum on Geonomics
              Land Rights course: www.course.earthrights.net
              Share Earth's worth to prosper and conserve.


            • Jeffery J. Smith
              ... A friendly acquaintance whom I ve urged along for over a decade now. ... Perhaps you could tender classes? ... Ah. SMITH, Jeffery J. President, Forum on
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 12, 2009
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                On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Emer O'Siochru wrote:


                 We have support for land taxes from Father Sean Healy





                A friendly acquaintance whom I've urged along for over a decade now.

                It is a different universe here and it is not helpful if you do not study it in depth before you tender help or you will put your foot in it.





                Perhaps you could tender classes?

                Actually funding



                Ah.

                SMITH, Jeffery J.
                President, Forum on Geonomics
                Land Rights course: www.course.earthrights.net
                Share Earth's worth to prosper and conserve.

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