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RE: LVT

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  • Wetzel Dave
    Cheers David. LVT can apply equally well where land is privately owned or State-owned. My preference would agree with Bruno, that where land is already held in
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 29, 2005
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      Cheers David.
      LVT can apply equally well where land is privately owned or State-owned.

      My preference would agree with Bruno, that where land is already held in
      common then do NOT privatise it.

      In England we have land in public ownership that works exceedingly well.
      Tenants freely pay rent to the landowning authority who use the revenue to
      provide services.

      e.g.
      The Bridge House trust Fund run by the City Corporation of London.
      They own many valuable sites in and around the City of London.
      Their primary purpose is to maintain the upkeep of the bridges in the City
      of London.
      However their income is so much higher than their expenditure that over the
      past 10 years they have given £160million to London charities.

      Many socialist countries in the Soviet era did not charge the rental value
      of the land they owned and so did not therefore benefit from "marginal cost
      pricing" that ensures scarce resources are used efficiently.

      It is a fallacy to interpret this failure as meaning that only privatised
      land holdings can provide efficiency. In fact, land speculation which always
      arises with private land ownership creates an unstable and inefficient
      market in land use. (It encourages landowners to withhold their land from
      use in order to create a greater scarcity and higher prices).

      The alternative is for rent to be paid to the State for all landholdings -
      including land occupied by the Government itself!

      Land Value tax collects a proportion of land rent from landowners. If the
      State already owns the land why not collect 100% of the rent and avoid the
      negative taxes on incomes and trade that reduce GDP and impoverish people?


      Dave
      Dave Wetzel; Vice-Chair; Transport for London.
      Windsor House. 42-50 Victoria Street. London. SW1H 0TL. UK
      Tel: 020 7941 4200
      Intl Tel: +44 207 941 4200

      PA: Vicky Jennings 020 7941 4081
      Windsor House is close to New Scotland Yard. Buses 11, 24, 148 and 211 pass
      the door. (507 passes close by).
      Nearest Tube: St. James's Park Underground station.
      Nearest mainline stations: Waterloo and Victoria (Both a walk or short bus
      ride).
      Public cycle parking available outside Windsor House.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: dray@... [mailto:dray@...]
      Sent: 28 March 2005 03:05
      To: Wetzel Dave
      Subject: Re: LVT



      Dave

      Thanks for this. I read them all over the weekend - the Plender article puts
      forward the idea of LVT nicely.

      This week I will be reviewing a short piece that Bruno has written for the
      comments section on a land reform report that my project is putting
      together.

      I have one general question about the LVT position:

      What does it have to say about whether land should be privately titled, or
      leased from the state: which is the big issue here in Vn, where there is no
      private ownership. You simply own or trade the certificate of land use right
      for a certain period (although the state management aspect does make it very
      messy, and bureaucratic).

      My understanding is that the LVT thing is somewhat of a parallel issue -
      more about how we tax rather than title land.

      The reason I ask is that the position is put (quite controversially) in
      Bruno's comments paper that Vietnam should maintain its currrent system of
      state land management and not go down the path of private ownership.

      What do you and your LVT allies think about this? I am just trying to put
      all the pieces together. No matter what I will include Bruno's comments in
      our paper to provide an alternative view of land management in Vn.

      tks

      David


      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      David Ray
      Vietnam Competitiveness Initiative
      USAID - The Asia Foundation
      15th floor, 53 Quang Trung St
      Hanoi, Vietnam

      Tel: +844 943 8163 ext 221
      Fax: +844 943 8160
      Mobile: 0904 292200

      Email: dray@...
      dray@...

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      Wetzel Dave <Davewetzel@...>


      03/24/2005 09:15 PM


      To
      "'dray@...'" <dray@...>

      cc
      "'Bruno Moser (Hanoi - Vietnam) [LC]'" <bruno_nam@...>

      Subject
      LVT






      David
      If you're ever passing through London do let's meet up.
      Meanwhile I attach some articles.
      Happy reading (and as always I'd welcome your comments).

      Happy Easter

      Dave
      Dave Wetzel; Vice-Chair; Transport for London.
      Windsor House. 42-50 Victoria Street. London. SW1H 0TL. UK
      Tel: 020 7941 4200
      Intl Tel: +44 207 941 4200

      PA: Vicky Jennings 020 7941 4081
      Windsor House is close to New Scotland Yard. Buses 11, 24, 148 and 211 pass
      the door. (507 passes close by).
      Nearest Tube: St. James's Park Underground station.
      Nearest mainline stations: Waterloo and Victoria (Both a walk or short bus
      ride).
      Public cycle parking available outside Windsor House.
      <<.article FT 20-FEB-04 Why on earth not put a tax on land.doc>>


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    • Wetzel Dave
      Paul/Clive Why is it right to tax wages that are earned by hard work, pension incomes saved from earnings during a worker s lifetime, but not to tax the
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 1, 2005
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        Paul/Clive
        Why is it right to tax wages that are earned by hard work, pension incomes
        saved from earnings during a worker's lifetime, but not to tax the unearned
        income that arises from the ownership of natural resources such as land?

        If we taxed land values we could reduce the taxes on earnings and trade and
        thereby encourage pop-stars and international businesses to locate here.

        This is exactly what is happening in Harrisburg, USA where many companies
        are now locating their US HQs since a land tax was introduced 20 years ago.


        Dave
        Dave Wetzel; Vice-Chair; Transport for London.
        Windsor House. 42-50 Victoria Street. London. SW1H 0TL. UK
        Tel: 020 7941 4200
        Intl Tel: +44 207 941 4200

        PA: Vicky Jennings 020 7941 4081
        Windsor House is close to New Scotland Yard. Buses 11, 24, 148 and 211 pass
        the door. (507 passes close by).
        Nearest Tube: St. James's Park Underground station.
        Nearest mainline stations: Waterloo and Victoria (Both a walk or short bus
        ride).
        Public cycle parking available outside Windsor House.


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Paul Harriss [mailto:paul@...]
        Sent: 01 April 2005 11:00
        To: Clive Harriss; Wetzel Dave
        Subject: RE: LVT



        The point that is being missed is that Stamp Duty at 4% affects virtually
        every pension and insurance company transaction and - as such - is a tax on
        pension funds. Gordon Brown has been digging the pension's Black Hole even
        deeper.



        By imposing Stamp Duty in areas erstwhile exempt, the value of assets held
        in those areas will have fallen by 4% (to reflect the additional cost to a
        prospective purchaser) again affecting pensions and insurance policies. It
        would have been far more sensible to have gradually increased the rate of
        duty rather than 4% imposition overnight, or better still, reduce the rate
        from 4% to something less penal. The 4% rate isn't affecting the housing
        market (with mortgage rates comparatively low, adding the extra Stamp Duty
        onto the sum borrowed isn't too much of a hardship) and as such is a failure
        except as a revenue-generating exercise which is not the way the 4% duty has
        been presented.







        Paul B. Harriss, BA, dpBA(MBS), MRICS

        Thomas Clive & Co

        6 South Molton Street

        LONDON

        W1K 5QF



        T 020 7629 9111

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        -----Original Message-----
        From: Clive Harriss
        Sent: 01 April 2005 10:34
        To: 'Wetzel Dave'
        Subject: LVT



        Dear Dave



        The front page of the property week is already heralding the demise of deals
        abandoned due to excessive taxation (in this case stamp duty). However this
        is indicative of all restrictive taxes on Land Values, and in essence,
        continuous taxation will lead to a degeneration of the market and the
        continued existing land use to avoid the imposition of higher taxation of
        assets until such time as the law is repealed (such draconian measures
        always are!).



        Speculation in property will end; large developers will look overseas as
        they do now to invest their money until sense returns to the UK market. This
        happened with rock stars and their assets. Fair taxation and the generation
        of wealth are the only way forward. With such high private ownership; for
        which so many have worked hard, you now propose to penalise them for their
        efforts.



        You can't kid all the people all of the time, did you see question time last
        night?!!!



        Regards



        Clive









        Thomas Clive & Co

        Commercial Property Consultants





        Clive Harriss
        Partner Agency

        Thomas Clive & Co
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