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RE: [LandCafe] Re: Most salient overlooked facts

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  • Harry Pollard
    Roy Langston said: Rent is what the most productive user will pay for the economic advantage he can obtain by USING the land. As Rent is therefore determined
    Message 1 of 67 , Oct 6, 2008
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      Roy Langston said:

       

      "Rent is what the most productive user will pay for the economic advantage he can obtain by USING the land."

       

      As Rent is therefore determined by the productivity of the user, it's an income tax.

       

      Well, well.

       

      Harry

       

      *******************************

      Harry Pollard

      Henry George School of Los Angeles

      Box 655  

      Tujunga  CA 91042

      (818) 352-4141

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      From: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LandCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roy Langston
      Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:23 AM
      To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [LandCafe] Re: Most salient overlooked facts

       

      Jeffery Smith wrote:

      >On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:26 PM, Mason Gaffney wrote:
      >> As Nic Tideman and some other great thinkers have so sagely
      >> written, the annual increment of land price is part of rent.

      Prof. Tideman may be a great thinker, but you would not know it by such an obviously false claim.

      Annual land price increments are driven by changes in interest rates, speculative momentum, the expected long-term relationship between economic growth and the discount rate, and other factors that have more to do with mortgage finance than rent. Rent is what the most productive user will pay for the economic advantage he can obtain by USING the land. NOT by OWNING it. Asset prices are driven by considerations completely different from the factors that govern wages and rent.

      -- Roy Langston

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    • Roy Langston
      ... And all are governed by the willing buyer and seller market price mechanism. ... Only a handful of whom are productive enough to pay the rent, and none
      Message 67 of 67 , Oct 31, 2008
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        Harry Pollard wrote:

        >Roy said in response to my:

        >>HP: You seem to assume a "willing buyer and a willing
        >>seller" a phrase that is not applicable when the
        >>commodity is absolutely necessary to life.

        >"You mean like food?"

        >Exactly! Or you could suggest water. Shelter from the
        >elements is also important.

        >Yet, all come from land - the primary source.

        And all are governed by the "willing buyer and seller"
        market price mechanism.

        >Roy responded to my:

        >>HP: Nothing can be done without land, so to do anything,
        >>you must pay what is asked however exacting that may
        >>be.

        >"No, you can just choose to deal with a more reasonable
        >owner, one who prefers less unearned income than he
        >would perhaps have liked to no unearned income at all."

        >The "reasonable owner" has the pick of many people
        >asking for a job.

        Only a handful of whom are productive enough to pay the
        rent, and none of whom has any reason to pay more than
        that.

        I am a landlord, Harry. Getting a tenant is easy, as
        long as you don't care if they pay the rent or not.
        Getting a tenant who will pay more than the place is
        worth to him, OTOH, is quite difficult.

        >Perhaps that makes him less "reasonable" .

        And perhaps having a mortgage payment to meet makes him
        more reasonable. To paraphrase Johnson, "The knowledge
        that one will be foreclosed in a fortnight concentrates
        the mind wonderfully."

        Who will give an owner more than the rent, and why?

        >You brought up Ireland - a perfect example of
        >"reasonable owners".

        No, they were mostly conquerors and religious bigots,
        and acted it.

        >The only capital available would have to come from
        >collected rack-rents.

        Nonsense. The tenants themselves were producing
        capital. They then had to pay rent for it, because
        they were denied the option of going elsewhere and
        dealing with more reasonable landowners. That's
        part of what made their rents rack-rents.

        >They were more interested in grabbing the loot and
        >using it to finance their great times in the Court
        >of St. James, at which there would be general
        >agreement that they were all "reasonable" .

        But the law privileged them to violate their tenants'
        rights to the products of their labor as well as to
        access and use the land, so they did not have to be
        reasonable in dealing with their tenants. Also, they
        got the land without having to buy it, and legal
        constraints made it difficult or impossible for them
        to sell it, so the willing buyer and seller price
        mechanism was not allowed to work wrt land. The
        English were determined that the Irish should not own
        their own land, so they just forbade them to buy any.

        -- Roy Langston



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