Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

an opportunity to comment on the NYT website Krugman blog re: Pittsburgh vs Detroit

Expand Messages
  • Wyn Achenbaum
    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/a-tale-of-two-rust-belt-cities/?src=twr As best I can tell, no comments yet mention LVT ... would also be an
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 21 1:27 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/a-tale-of-two-rust-belt-cities/?src=twr

      As best I can tell, no comments yet mention LVT ... would also be an
      opportunity to promote the CGO meeting ...

      Wyn

      --
      blog: lvtfan.typepad.com ...
      LVT -- Land Value Taxation -- the only tax system worthy of a fan club!
    • Scott Bergeson
      Quoting Wyn Achenbaum on Sun, 21 Jul 2013 16:27:02 -0400: ___Wyn___ http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/a-tale-of-two-rust-belt-cities/?src=twr As best
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 21 2:05 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Quoting Wyn Achenbaum on Sun, 21 Jul 2013 16:27:02 -0400:

        ___Wyn___
        http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/a-tale-of-two-rust-belt-cities/?src=twr

        As best I can tell, no comments yet mention LVT ...
        would also be an opportunity to promote the CGO meeting ...
        -----

        Thank you for calling him on what appears intentional obfuscation:
        "Pittsburgh ... seems to have managed to diversify its economy"
      • Scott Baker
        Detroit isn t even broke.  I m just starting my research now, but there is $5B in the pension fund alone, and they used about half that for pension payouts
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 21 2:12 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Detroit isn't even broke.  I'm just starting my research now, but there is >$5B in the pension fund alone, and they used about half that for pension payouts in 2012.  When they say Detroit is $9B behind in pension, they mean years out (still trying to figure out how many, but it looks like 10), and, of course, there are taxes and contributions along the way too, which they don't count.  This is becoming a favorite tactic of those who want to clear out "slums" and poor people in order to develop land.  Who might they be?  Well, Robert Reich, writing in the Huffington Post, says some of the richest suburbs around border the urban Detroit core:
          www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/detroit-bankruptcy_b_3629782.html
          Now, they wouldn't be investing in Detroit land, would they?  nah, why would they do that....
           
          More to come...



          From: Wyn Achenbaum <wyn@...>
          To: Land Theory <landtheory@yahoogroups.com>; LandCafe@yahoogroups.com; TaxShift@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 4:27 PM
          Subject: [TaxShift] an opportunity to comment on the NYT website Krugman blog re: Pittsburgh vs Detroit

           
          http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/a-tale-of-two-rust-belt-cities/?src=twr

          As best I can tell, no comments yet mention LVT ... would also be an
          opportunity to promote the CGO meeting ...

          Wyn

          --
          blog: lvtfan.typepad.com ...
          LVT -- Land Value Taxation -- the only tax system worthy of a fan club!



        • walto
          ... Here s somebody who disagrees with the claim that Detroit isn t broke:
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 21 3:17 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Scott Baker <ssbaker305@...> wrote:
            >
            > Detroit isn't even broke.  I'm just starting my research now, but there is >$5B in the pension fund alone, and they used about half that for pension payouts in 2012.  When they say Detroit is $9B behind in pension, they mean years out (still trying to figure out how many, but it looks like 10), and, of course, there are taxes and contributions along the way too, which they don't count.  This is becoming a favorite tactic of those who want to clear out "slums" and poor people in order to develop land.  Who might they be?  Well, Robert Reich, writing in the Huffington Post, says some of the richest suburbs around border the urban Detroit core:
            > www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/detroit-bankruptcy_b_3629782.html
            > Now, they wouldn't be investing in Detroit land, would they?  nah, why would they do that....
            >
            >  
            > More to come...
            >
            >
            > Scott Baker - President: Common Ground - NYC; NY State Coordinator, Public Banking Institute; Opednews Blogger/Senior Editor; Huffington Post Blogger; Author
            >

            Here's somebody who disagrees with the claim that Detroit isn't broke:

            http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-21/25-facts-about-fall-detroit-will-leave-you-shaking-your-head


            25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head
            Tyler Durden's picture
            Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/21/2013 17:47 -0400


            Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

            It is so sad to watch one of America's greatest cities die a horrible death. Once upon a time, the city of Detroit was a teeming metropolis of 1.8 million people and it had the highest per capita income in the United States. Now it is a rotting, decaying hellhole of about 700,000 people that the rest of the world makes jokes about. On Thursday, we learned that the decision had been made for the city of Detroit to formally file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. It was going to be the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States by far, but on Friday it was stopped at least temporarily by an Ingham County judge.

            She ruled that Detroit's bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution because it would result in reduced pension payments for retired workers. She also stated that Detroit's bankruptcy filing was "also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit's auto companies) out of bankruptcy", and she ordered that a copy of her judgment be sent to Barack Obama. How "honoring the president" has anything to do with the bankruptcy of Detroit is a bit of a mystery, but what that judge has done is ensured that there will be months of legal wrangling ahead over Detroit's money woes.

            It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. But one thing is for sure - the city of Detroit is flat broke. One of the greatest cities in the history of the world is just a shell of its former self. The following are 25 facts about the fall of Detroit that will leave you shaking your head...

            1) At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000 creditors.

            2) Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.

            3) Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest per-capita income in the entire nation.

            4) In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit. Today, there are less than 27,000.

            5) Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.

            6) There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now for $500 or less.

            7) At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.

            8) About one-third of Detroit's 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.

            9) An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.

            10) Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.

            11) If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.

            12) Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63 percent.

            13) The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.

            14) There are 70 "Superfund" hazardous waste sites in Detroit.

            15) 40 percent of the street lights do not work.

            16) Only about a third of the ambulances are running.

            17) Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.

            18) Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.

            19) The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.

            20) When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of 58 minutes to respond.

            21) Due to budget cutbacks, most police stations in Detroit are now closed to the public for 16 hours a day.

            22) The violent crime rate in Detroit is five times higher than the national average.

            23) The murder rate in Detroit is 11 times higher than it is in New York City.

            24) Today, police solve less than 10 percent of the crimes that are committed in Detroit.

            25) Crime has gotten so bad in Detroit that even the police are telling people to "enter Detroit at your own risk".

            It is easy to point fingers and mock Detroit, but the truth is that the rest of America is going down the exact same path that Detroit has gone down.

            Detroit just got there first.

            All over this country, there are hundreds of state and local governments that are also on the verge of financial ruin...

            "Everyone will say, 'Oh well, it's Detroit. I thought it was already in bankruptcy,' " said Michigan State University economist Eric Scorsone. "But Detroit is not unique. It's the same in Chicago and New York and San Diego and San Jose. It's a lot of major cities in this country. They may not be as extreme as Detroit, but a lot of them face the same problems."

            A while back, Meredith Whitney was highly criticized for predicting that there would be a huge wave of municipal defaults in this country. When it didn't happen, the critics let her have it mercilessly.

            But Meredith Whitney was not wrong.

            She was just early.

            Detroit is only just the beginning. When the next major financial crisis strikes, we are going to see a wave of municipal bankruptcies unlike anything we have ever seen before.

            And of course the biggest debt problem of all in this country is the U.S. government. We are going to pay a great price for piling up nearly 17 trillion dollars of debt and over 200 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities.

            All over the nation, our economic infrastructure is being gutted, debt levels are exploding and poverty is spreading. We are consuming far more wealth than we are producing, and our share of global GDP has been declining dramatically.

            We have been living way above our means for so long that we think it is "normal", but an extremely painful "adjustment" is coming and most Americans are not going to know how to handle it.

            So don't laugh at Detroit. The economic pain that Detroit is experiencing will be coming to your area of the country soon enough.

            W
          • John
            What is functionally illiterate ? What prompted Michael Moore into action was when auto jobs were taken from Michigan to Mexico by an auto corporation. It
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 22 12:03 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              What is "functionally illiterate"?

              What prompted Michael Moore into action was when auto jobs were taken from Michigan to Mexico by an auto corporation.

              It looks like Washington should take over the city and firstly get law and order and get basic amenities like health and education in check. Then confidence will return.

              The same job stripping was being done to Liverpool in the 1980s by Thatcher as jobs were off-shored and traditional port jobs were being sent inland. The city fought back politically. Then the government threatened to take over the city. Liverpool suffered inner-city decline, and still does, as did most UK industrial cities, although Liverpool was a commercial city with a large port, not an industrial manufacturing city.

              An interesting point in that prosperous districts are wanting to expand into the rundown inner-city suburbs of Detroit, in effect gentrifying them. In Liverpool this has only happened to a small degree. In the past 25 years the city's metro rapid-transit network only expanded on the peripheries into more prosperous areas - right now an immediate goal is to get the town of Skelmersdale onto the metro with direct fast rail links to Liverpool's city centre. Those on the peripheries have access to jobs in the city centre which ultimately will exclude those living in the inner-cities next to where the job mainly are.

              Many people living in the inner-cities in earshot of the city centre, have no metro stations, although in many areas abandoned tunnels run under and two districts have abandoned underground stations which if commissioned would greatly assist the districts in regeneration. The people in the inner-cities have been disenfranchised.
            • F. E. K. Britton. EcoPlan Int'l
              Haentjens - book coverThe Unexpected Renaissance There I was in Paris last
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 22 12:28 AM
              • 0 Attachment

                Haentjens - book coverThe Unexpected Renaissance

                There I was in Paris last week,  pretty much minding my own business which for the most part consisted of leading a last-semester international  MBA class into the wilds of Sustainable Development, Economy and Society, and my eye fell on a little blue book in the reception area. The title, “Crises: La Solution des Villes” was close enough to the topics that occupy our attention here, that I opened it and started to read. And what I found in the very first chapter was a highly engaging account of how a certain number of European cities, who back in the sixties and seventies were in deep pain mainly as a result of the entirely unanticipated process of deindustrialization, decided to react and turn their desperate situations around. And in the process, separately and together, began to reinvent the paradigm of the 21st century city.

                * Read more - http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/the-unexpected-renaissance/

                 

                 

                EcoPlan International. Association loi de 1901

                _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

                 Francis  Eric Knight Britton, Managing Director / Editor

                 Sustainable Development  | The Equity Initiative |   World Streets  |  New Mobility Consult | World Streets Online   

                  9, rue Gabillot   69003 Lyon France  |  T. +339 8326 9459| M. +336 5088 0787  | E. eric.britton@...   S. newmobility

                    

                P Avant d'imprimer, pensez à l'environnement

                 

              • John
                ... Well it is in French so I am at a loss. :( One city in the UK, Manchester has turned itself around and adopting different role by stealing the clothes of
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 22 1:29 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "F. E. K. Britton. EcoPlan Int'l" <eric.britton@...> wrote:

                  > And what I found in the very first chapter was a
                  > highly engaging account of how a certain number
                  > of European cities, who back in the sixties and
                  > seventies were in deep pain mainly as a result of the
                  > entirely unanticipated process of deindustrialization,
                  > decided to react and turn their desperate situations
                  > around.

                  Well it is in French so I am at a loss. :( One city in the UK, Manchester has turned itself around and adopting different role by stealing the clothes of its neighbour, Liverpool. The cities are only 30 miles apart.

                  Manchester was the world's first industrial city, Liverpool a massive port and commercial city. The two cities had defined roles that never overlapped. British manufacturing declined in the 1960, with Thatcher putting in the boot in the 1980s. The North West of England in reality needed only one big city to champion the region in the post-industrial era. The natural choice was commercial Liverpool with its well established commerce and institutions, which at one time was richer than London. Then allow Manchester to contract an find its own level in high quality, high-tech manufacturing. But London does not like large provincial cities which may compete with the capital, especially as the aim is to maintain London as a world super-city. Their ploy has always been divide and rule.

                  Examples are: Liverpool's people moving business, the trans-Atlantic liner trade, was being made redundant by aircraft. Naturally Liverpool's airport would fill the gap. Then the Air Ministry ran Liverpool's airport after gaining control during WW2. They only gave it back to the city in the 1960s, not doing any updating to the airport, after Manchester's airport had stolen the people moving trade. London moved a large part of the BBC to Manchester. The new High Speed Rail network is giving Manchester a direct dedicated link while the government left off Liverpool.

                  London has relegated more attractive Liverpool to a tourist city while making moves to make Manchester a commercial city. Reversing the roles. This obviously caused antagonism between the two cities - what London wants. Liverpool fights back and is looking towards China for links and finance to improve the economy.

                  Manchester twice applied for the Olympics, knowing they never had a chance, as a propaganda exercise (Liverpool would have a chance), to gain world-wide recognition. It worked. Manchester is only a small city of about 420,000 yet many think it is about 4 times that size.

                  Manchester has changed its role, but at the detriment to its neighbour with government connivance.
                • Scott on the Spot
                  It s suicide, not murder. There s a difference. The payout of the pension in 2012 was just half a billion dollars. There is over $5B in the pension fund.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 22 7:23 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It's suicide, not murder. There's a difference.
                    The payout of the pension in 2012 was just half a billion dollars.
                    There is over $5B in the pension fund. Tell me how the pension fund is
                    broke when it can pay out 10 years of pensions even assuming NO increase
                    due to market returns, taxes and employee contributions. The rest are
                    multi-year, even multi-decade bond repayments, for the most part, which
                    can be deferred, renegotiated, and even resold or defaulted upon, not
                    that any of that is necessary.

                    This is a naked land grab, nothing more.

                    Like I said, I am still researching this - something the mainstream
                    media absolutely has not done. More to come.
                    --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "walto" wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Scott Baker ssbaker305@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Detroit isn't even broke. I'm just starting my research now,
                    but there is >$5B in the pension fund alone, and they used about half
                    that for pension payouts in 2012. When they say Detroit is $9B
                    behind in pension, they mean years out (still trying to figure out how
                    many, but it looks like 10), and, of course, there are taxes and
                    contributions along the way too, which they don't count. This is
                    becoming a favorite tactic of those who want to clear out "slums" and
                    poor people in order to develop land. Who might they be? Well,
                    Robert Reich, writing in the Huffington Post, says some of the richest
                    suburbs around border the urban Detroit core:
                    > >
                    www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/detroit-bankruptcy_b_3629782.html
                    > > Now, they wouldn't be investing in Detroit land, would they?Â
                    nah, why would they do that....
                    > >
                    > > Â
                    > > More to come...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Scott Baker - President: Common Ground - NYC; NY State Coordinator,
                    Public Banking Institute; Opednews Blogger/Senior Editor; Huffington
                    Post Blogger; Author
                    > >
                    >
                    > Here's somebody who disagrees with the claim that Detroit isn't broke:
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-21/25-facts-about-fall-detroit-wil\
                    l-leave-you-shaking-your-head
                    >
                    >
                    > 25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your
                    Head
                    > Tyler Durden's picture
                    > Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/21/2013 17:47 -0400
                    >
                    >
                    > Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,
                    >
                    > It is so sad to watch one of America's greatest cities die a horrible
                    death. Once upon a time, the city of Detroit was a teeming metropolis
                    of 1.8 million people and it had the highest per capita income in the
                    United States. Now it is a rotting, decaying hellhole of about 700,000
                    people that the rest of the world makes jokes about. On Thursday, we
                    learned that the decision had been made for the city of Detroit to
                    formally file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. It was going to be the largest
                    municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States by far, but on
                    Friday it was stopped at least temporarily by an Ingham County judge.
                    >
                    > She ruled that Detroit's bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan
                    Constitution because it would result in reduced pension payments for
                    retired workers. She also stated that Detroit's bankruptcy filing was
                    "also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit's
                    auto companies) out of bankruptcy", and she ordered that a copy of her
                    judgment be sent to Barack Obama. How "honoring the president" has
                    anything to do with the bankruptcy of Detroit is a bit of a mystery, but
                    what that judge has done is ensured that there will be months of legal
                    wrangling ahead over Detroit's money woes.
                    >
                    > It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. But one
                    thing is for sure - the city of Detroit is flat broke. One of the
                    greatest cities in the history of the world is just a shell of its
                    former self. The following are 25 facts about the fall of Detroit that
                    will leave you shaking your head...
                    >
                    > 1) At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000
                    creditors.
                    >
                    > 2) Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities.
                    That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.
                    >
                    > 3) Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest
                    per-capita income in the entire nation.
                    >
                    > 4) In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit.
                    Today, there are less than 27,000.
                    >
                    > 5) Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the
                    manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.
                    >
                    > 6) There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now
                    for $500 or less.
                    >
                    > 7) At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in
                    the city.
                    >
                    > 8) About one-third of Detroit's 140 square miles is either vacant or
                    derelict.
                    >
                    > 9) An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit
                    are functionally illiterate.
                    >
                    > 10) Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are
                    working at this point.
                    >
                    > 11) If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of
                    Detroit are living in poverty.
                    >
                    > 12) Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but
                    over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63
                    percent.
                    >
                    > 13) The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax
                    revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is
                    bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the
                    casinos.
                    >
                    > 14) There are 70 "Superfund" hazardous waste sites in Detroit.
                    >
                    > 15) 40 percent of the street lights do not work.
                    >
                    > 16) Only about a third of the ambulances are running.
                    >
                    > 17) Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long
                    that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.
                    >
                    > 18) Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been
                    permanently closed down since 2008.
                    >
                    > 19) The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40
                    percent over the past decade.
                    >
                    > 20) When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of
                    58 minutes to respond.
                    >
                    > 21) Due to budget cutbacks, most police stations in Detroit are now
                    closed to the public for 16 hours a day.
                    >
                    > 22) The violent crime rate in Detroit is five times higher than the
                    national average.
                    >
                    > 23) The murder rate in Detroit is 11 times higher than it is in New
                    York City.
                    >
                    > 24) Today, police solve less than 10 percent of the crimes that are
                    committed in Detroit.
                    >
                    > 25) Crime has gotten so bad in Detroit that even the police are
                    telling people to "enter Detroit at your own risk".
                    >
                    > It is easy to point fingers and mock Detroit, but the truth is that
                    the rest of America is going down the exact same path that Detroit has
                    gone down.
                    >
                    > Detroit just got there first.
                    >
                    > All over this country, there are hundreds of state and local
                    governments that are also on the verge of financial ruin...
                    >
                    > "Everyone will say, 'Oh well, it's Detroit. I thought it was
                    already in bankruptcy,' " said Michigan State University economist Eric
                    Scorsone. "But Detroit is not unique. It's the same in Chicago and New
                    York and San Diego and San Jose. It's a lot of major cities in this
                    country. They may not be as extreme as Detroit, but a lot of them face
                    the same problems."
                    >
                    > A while back, Meredith Whitney was highly criticized for predicting
                    that there would be a huge wave of municipal defaults in this country.
                    When it didn't happen, the critics let her have it mercilessly.
                    >
                    > But Meredith Whitney was not wrong.
                    >
                    > She was just early.
                    >
                    > Detroit is only just the beginning. When the next major financial
                    crisis strikes, we are going to see a wave of municipal bankruptcies
                    unlike anything we have ever seen before.
                    >
                    > And of course the biggest debt problem of all in this country is the
                    U.S. government. We are going to pay a great price for piling up nearly
                    17 trillion dollars of debt and over 200 trillion dollars of unfunded
                    liabilities.
                    >
                    > All over the nation, our economic infrastructure is being gutted, debt
                    levels are exploding and poverty is spreading. We are consuming far
                    more wealth than we are producing, and our share of global GDP has been
                    declining dramatically.
                    >
                    > We have been living way above our means for so long that we think it
                    is "normal", but an extremely painful "adjustment" is coming and most
                    Americans are not going to know how to handle it.
                    >
                    > So don't laugh at Detroit. The economic pain that Detroit is
                    experiencing will be coming to your area of the country soon enough.
                    >
                    > W
                    >
                  • mattbieker
                    Christ! Did you read the comments? Article must ve been a big hit on Stormfront or something.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 22 8:03 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Christ! Did you read the comments? Article must've been a big hit on Stormfront or something.

                      --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "walto" <calhorn@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Scott Baker <ssbaker305@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Detroit isn't even broke.  I'm just starting my research now, but there is >$5B in the pension fund alone, and they used about half that for pension payouts in 2012.  When they say Detroit is $9B behind in pension, they mean years out (still trying to figure out how many, but it looks like 10), and, of course, there are taxes and contributions along the way too, which they don't count.  This is becoming a favorite tactic of those who want to clear out "slums" and poor people in order to develop land.  Who might they be?  Well, Robert Reich, writing in the Huffington Post, says some of the richest suburbs around border the urban Detroit core:
                      > > www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/detroit-bankruptcy_b_3629782.html
                      > > Now, they wouldn't be investing in Detroit land, would they?  nah, why would they do that....
                      > >
                      > >  
                      > > More to come...
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Scott Baker - President: Common Ground - NYC; NY State Coordinator, Public Banking Institute; Opednews Blogger/Senior Editor; Huffington Post Blogger; Author
                      > >
                      >
                      > Here's somebody who disagrees with the claim that Detroit isn't broke:
                      >
                      > http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-21/25-facts-about-fall-detroit-will-leave-you-shaking-your-head
                      >
                      >
                      > 25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head
                      > Tyler Durden's picture
                      > Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/21/2013 17:47 -0400
                      >
                      >
                      > Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,
                      >
                      > It is so sad to watch one of America's greatest cities die a horrible death. Once upon a time, the city of Detroit was a teeming metropolis of 1.8 million people and it had the highest per capita income in the United States. Now it is a rotting, decaying hellhole of about 700,000 people that the rest of the world makes jokes about. On Thursday, we learned that the decision had been made for the city of Detroit to formally file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. It was going to be the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States by far, but on Friday it was stopped at least temporarily by an Ingham County judge.
                      >
                      > She ruled that Detroit's bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution because it would result in reduced pension payments for retired workers. She also stated that Detroit's bankruptcy filing was "also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit's auto companies) out of bankruptcy", and she ordered that a copy of her judgment be sent to Barack Obama. How "honoring the president" has anything to do with the bankruptcy of Detroit is a bit of a mystery, but what that judge has done is ensured that there will be months of legal wrangling ahead over Detroit's money woes.
                      >
                      > It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. But one thing is for sure - the city of Detroit is flat broke. One of the greatest cities in the history of the world is just a shell of its former self. The following are 25 facts about the fall of Detroit that will leave you shaking your head...
                      >
                      > 1) At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000 creditors.
                      >
                      > 2) Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.
                      >
                      > 3) Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest per-capita income in the entire nation.
                      >
                      > 4) In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit. Today, there are less than 27,000.
                      >
                      > 5) Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.
                      >
                      > 6) There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now for $500 or less.
                      >
                      > 7) At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.
                      >
                      > 8) About one-third of Detroit's 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.
                      >
                      > 9) An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.
                      >
                      > 10) Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.
                      >
                      > 11) If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.
                      >
                      > 12) Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63 percent.
                      >
                      > 13) The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.
                      >
                      > 14) There are 70 "Superfund" hazardous waste sites in Detroit.
                      >
                      > 15) 40 percent of the street lights do not work.
                      >
                      > 16) Only about a third of the ambulances are running.
                      >
                      > 17) Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.
                      >
                      > 18) Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.
                      >
                      > 19) The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.
                      >
                      > 20) When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of 58 minutes to respond.
                      >
                      > 21) Due to budget cutbacks, most police stations in Detroit are now closed to the public for 16 hours a day.
                      >
                      > 22) The violent crime rate in Detroit is five times higher than the national average.
                      >
                      > 23) The murder rate in Detroit is 11 times higher than it is in New York City.
                      >
                      > 24) Today, police solve less than 10 percent of the crimes that are committed in Detroit.
                      >
                      > 25) Crime has gotten so bad in Detroit that even the police are telling people to "enter Detroit at your own risk".
                      >
                      > It is easy to point fingers and mock Detroit, but the truth is that the rest of America is going down the exact same path that Detroit has gone down.
                      >
                      > Detroit just got there first.
                      >
                      > All over this country, there are hundreds of state and local governments that are also on the verge of financial ruin...
                      >
                      > "Everyone will say, 'Oh well, it's Detroit. I thought it was already in bankruptcy,' " said Michigan State University economist Eric Scorsone. "But Detroit is not unique. It's the same in Chicago and New York and San Diego and San Jose. It's a lot of major cities in this country. They may not be as extreme as Detroit, but a lot of them face the same problems."
                      >
                      > A while back, Meredith Whitney was highly criticized for predicting that there would be a huge wave of municipal defaults in this country. When it didn't happen, the critics let her have it mercilessly.
                      >
                      > But Meredith Whitney was not wrong.
                      >
                      > She was just early.
                      >
                      > Detroit is only just the beginning. When the next major financial crisis strikes, we are going to see a wave of municipal bankruptcies unlike anything we have ever seen before.
                      >
                      > And of course the biggest debt problem of all in this country is the U.S. government. We are going to pay a great price for piling up nearly 17 trillion dollars of debt and over 200 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities.
                      >
                      > All over the nation, our economic infrastructure is being gutted, debt levels are exploding and poverty is spreading. We are consuming far more wealth than we are producing, and our share of global GDP has been declining dramatically.
                      >
                      > We have been living way above our means for so long that we think it is "normal", but an extremely painful "adjustment" is coming and most Americans are not going to know how to handle it.
                      >
                      > So don't laugh at Detroit. The economic pain that Detroit is experiencing will be coming to your area of the country soon enough.
                      >
                      > W
                      >
                    • walto
                      ... I hadn t until now. Yeesh--a lot of nastiness there. W
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 22 10:31 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "mattbieker" <agrarian.justice@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Christ! Did you read the comments? Article must've been a big hit on Stormfront or something.
                        >

                        I hadn't until now. Yeesh--a lot of nastiness there.

                        W



                        > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "walto" <calhorn@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Scott Baker <ssbaker305@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Detroit isn't even broke.  I'm just starting my research now, but there is >$5B in the pension fund alone, and they used about half that for pension payouts in 2012.  When they say Detroit is $9B behind in pension, they mean years out (still trying to figure out how many, but it looks like 10), and, of course, there are taxes and contributions along the way too, which they don't count.  This is becoming a favorite tactic of those who want to clear out "slums" and poor people in order to develop land.  Who might they be?  Well, Robert Reich, writing in the Huffington Post, says some of the richest suburbs around border the urban Detroit core:
                        > > > www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/detroit-bankruptcy_b_3629782.html
                        > > > Now, they wouldn't be investing in Detroit land, would they?  nah, why would they do that....
                        > > >
                        > > >  
                        > > > More to come...
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Scott Baker - President: Common Ground - NYC; NY State Coordinator, Public Banking Institute; Opednews Blogger/Senior Editor; Huffington Post Blogger; Author
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > Here's somebody who disagrees with the claim that Detroit isn't broke:
                        > >
                        > > http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-21/25-facts-about-fall-detroit-will-leave-you-shaking-your-head
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head
                        > > Tyler Durden's picture
                        > > Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/21/2013 17:47 -0400
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,
                        > >
                        > > It is so sad to watch one of America's greatest cities die a horrible death. Once upon a time, the city of Detroit was a teeming metropolis of 1.8 million people and it had the highest per capita income in the United States. Now it is a rotting, decaying hellhole of about 700,000 people that the rest of the world makes jokes about. On Thursday, we learned that the decision had been made for the city of Detroit to formally file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. It was going to be the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States by far, but on Friday it was stopped at least temporarily by an Ingham County judge.
                        > >
                        > > She ruled that Detroit's bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution because it would result in reduced pension payments for retired workers. She also stated that Detroit's bankruptcy filing was "also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit's auto companies) out of bankruptcy", and she ordered that a copy of her judgment be sent to Barack Obama. How "honoring the president" has anything to do with the bankruptcy of Detroit is a bit of a mystery, but what that judge has done is ensured that there will be months of legal wrangling ahead over Detroit's money woes.
                        > >
                        > > It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. But one thing is for sure - the city of Detroit is flat broke. One of the greatest cities in the history of the world is just a shell of its former self. The following are 25 facts about the fall of Detroit that will leave you shaking your head...
                        > >
                        > > 1) At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000 creditors.
                        > >
                        > > 2) Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.
                        > >
                        > > 3) Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest per-capita income in the entire nation.
                        > >
                        > > 4) In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit. Today, there are less than 27,000.
                        > >
                        > > 5) Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.
                        > >
                        > > 6) There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now for $500 or less.
                        > >
                        > > 7) At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.
                        > >
                        > > 8) About one-third of Detroit's 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.
                        > >
                        > > 9) An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.
                        > >
                        > > 10) Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.
                        > >
                        > > 11) If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.
                        > >
                        > > 12) Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63 percent.
                        > >
                        > > 13) The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.
                        > >
                        > > 14) There are 70 "Superfund" hazardous waste sites in Detroit.
                        > >
                        > > 15) 40 percent of the street lights do not work.
                        > >
                        > > 16) Only about a third of the ambulances are running.
                        > >
                        > > 17) Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.
                        > >
                        > > 18) Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.
                        > >
                        > > 19) The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.
                        > >
                        > > 20) When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of 58 minutes to respond.
                        > >
                        > > 21) Due to budget cutbacks, most police stations in Detroit are now closed to the public for 16 hours a day.
                        > >
                        > > 22) The violent crime rate in Detroit is five times higher than the national average.
                        > >
                        > > 23) The murder rate in Detroit is 11 times higher than it is in New York City.
                        > >
                        > > 24) Today, police solve less than 10 percent of the crimes that are committed in Detroit.
                        > >
                        > > 25) Crime has gotten so bad in Detroit that even the police are telling people to "enter Detroit at your own risk".
                        > >
                        > > It is easy to point fingers and mock Detroit, but the truth is that the rest of America is going down the exact same path that Detroit has gone down.
                        > >
                        > > Detroit just got there first.
                        > >
                        > > All over this country, there are hundreds of state and local governments that are also on the verge of financial ruin...
                        > >
                        > > "Everyone will say, 'Oh well, it's Detroit. I thought it was already in bankruptcy,' " said Michigan State University economist Eric Scorsone. "But Detroit is not unique. It's the same in Chicago and New York and San Diego and San Jose. It's a lot of major cities in this country. They may not be as extreme as Detroit, but a lot of them face the same problems."
                        > >
                        > > A while back, Meredith Whitney was highly criticized for predicting that there would be a huge wave of municipal defaults in this country. When it didn't happen, the critics let her have it mercilessly.
                        > >
                        > > But Meredith Whitney was not wrong.
                        > >
                        > > She was just early.
                        > >
                        > > Detroit is only just the beginning. When the next major financial crisis strikes, we are going to see a wave of municipal bankruptcies unlike anything we have ever seen before.
                        > >
                        > > And of course the biggest debt problem of all in this country is the U.S. government. We are going to pay a great price for piling up nearly 17 trillion dollars of debt and over 200 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities.
                        > >
                        > > All over the nation, our economic infrastructure is being gutted, debt levels are exploding and poverty is spreading. We are consuming far more wealth than we are producing, and our share of global GDP has been declining dramatically.
                        > >
                        > > We have been living way above our means for so long that we think it is "normal", but an extremely painful "adjustment" is coming and most Americans are not going to know how to handle it.
                        > >
                        > > So don't laugh at Detroit. The economic pain that Detroit is experiencing will be coming to your area of the country soon enough.
                        > >
                        > > W
                        > >
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.