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RE: [LandCafe] Re: LETS Instantiate AGAIN New Fred Harrison Video

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  • David Reed
    @walto This difference of perceptions may have something to do with the fact that when I first tried to raise the possibility that linguistic philosophy might
    Message 1 of 78 , Jul 9, 2013
      @walto
      This difference of perceptions may have something to do with the fact that when I first tried to  raise the possibility that linguistic philosophy might invalidate some of the peculiar methods of argument on this site, you filled whole e-mails with hahahahas and said I was making myself as ridiculous as someone travelling the Metro with his flies open . I countered with quoting back at you one of your published works which dealt, among other things, with such important problems as Why does my Frisbee look different at night?  (Answer: Its dark mate hahahaha!)Things have not been very harmonious since, though you have resiled the hahahaha/ flies open approach though not an uncritical acceptance of the products of the Langston bullshit machine which relies on misusing the language .(BTW His latest outbursts about the unions are pathological.
       
      References to Gaskin and linguistic idealism which deals in private language notions like instantiation and even instantiating instantiation   is not reassuring to one who believes that mundane matters such as free collective bargaining are more susceptible to the clarity and bullshit-avoiding methods of Ordinary Language Philosophy. Are you really going to argue with trade unionists pushed to the limits by employers using Gaskin's and others ideal language?Best of luck mate.Take along a Frisbee as a an objective correlative ( or should that be subjective correlative?).  
      As I said, I am amazed that someone who claims to respect the linguistic philosophers' perception that many philosophical problems are just problems of language should have fallen for so much of Langston's flyblown crap.Fisking is the least of his invalid methods: reification by putting so much reliance on abstract nouns is worse.But the nitty gritty of language analysis is evidently beneath you. 
       LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
      From: calhorn@...
      Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:13:01 +0000
      Subject: [LandCafe] Re: LETS FISK AGAIN New Fred Harrison Video

       
      I won't respond to this except to (again) correct your view that I have something against linguistic philosophy. It's actually a particular interest of mine, especially versions of linguistic idealism, like that recently espoused by Richard Gaskin.

      I realize people on the internet turn into Beckett characters and will repeat falsehoods for no other reason than that they have said them before, but, for about the 10th time, I tell you that have no antipathy toward linguistic philosophy (though, as in all areas of philosophy, some of it is good, some of it is not). I mean, I'm likely to know a bit better what I like and what I don't than you are, right? Just as, in spite of RL's claims, I have a somewhat better sense of how things seem to me than he does.

      If we stick to what we know, we're unlikely to be correcting others on their own views.

      Best,

      W

      --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, David Reed <dbcreed@...> wrote:
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      > If there is no obligation on both parties ,there would be no bargaining: the employers would refuse to discuss wage levels; the unions would go on strike as a first and only course of action.
      > I imagine the term acquired the adjective "free" to give the unions some equality with the employers who have the right to refuse to negotiate.It is typical of the post-postwar right wing nightmare we have got ourselves into that employers refuse to contribute to the aggregate demand that provides their customers by being unwilling to bargain, as of old.
      > Somewhat surprised that you are indulging in the niceties of linguistic philosophy, considering your dismissive remarks about the methodology in the past .Whether bargaining takes place when one side is absent is rather like the Zen conundrum of one hand clapping (without linguistic rigour).
      > Am not surprised that you continue to follow your ex- guru in his latest preposterous excursions into fields he knows nothing about.
      > We should be discussing what The Observer has to say about the unions, not RL's eccentric response, which strikes me as incoherent class hatred.
      > e LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
      > From: calhorn@...
      > Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 11:28:20 +0000
      > Subject: [LandCafe] Re: LETS FISK AGAIN New Fred Harrison Video
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      > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, David Reed <dbcreed@> wrote:
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      > > Also he is claiming that free collective bargaining is not free because the employers are required to take part.
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      > As the term "free" is in question there, my suggestion is to leave it out. Hence, the question to be discussed should be "To what extent is collective bargaining a voluntary activity of each party ("free") in the UK? It's not really helpful to beg the question as has been done in the excerpt above.
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      > Your following sentence is instructive in this regard:
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      > "It would not be bargaining if they vetoed it before it started."
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      > Of course, there would be no bargaining if there was no bargaining. But obligatory bargaining, even if it's bargaining, does not become "free" by the fact of its existence. Quite the contrary. So, I think the real question here is, which is the lesser evil--obligatory bargaining or no bargaining at all?
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    • David Reed
      Message received and understood. I would say in my own defence that I try to avoid tangling with Langston. The last set-to arose from an open posting of a
      Message 78 of 78 , Jul 15, 2013
        Message received and understood.
        I would say in my own defence that I try to avoid tangling with Langston.  The last set-to
         arose from an open posting of a quote from the IFS( followed by a long quote from The Observer) which indicated that real wages in the UK had fallen because of the decline in unionisation. Cue the eruption of Langston with a lot of anti-union prejudice and no facts or quotes of his own He is still calling me a "union yob " in his last posting.
        I will abide by this decision but I don't know what I'll do if another outburst of anti union rhetoric occurs. I thought ,because of the involvement of Dave Wetzel, that this site was broadly progressive in the old,  left of centre way that has a place for unions .
        This set-to was very relevant to LVT because Langston has been declaring, that post -LVT,  wages should go down. 

        To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com; roy_langston@...; dbcreed@...
        From: eric.britton@...
        Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:35:39 +0200
        Subject: RE: [LandCafe] Re: LETS Instantiate AGAIN New Fred Harrison Video

         

        David Reed, Roy Langston,

         

        If this conversation continues to degrade we will ask you both to leave this conference. This sort of thing is not why we are here.

         

        Faithfully

         

         

         

         

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