Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Open Letter

Expand Messages
  • mattbieker
    IMO, LVT has made great strides over the last several years. That said, I don t believe it s hit the mainstream here in the US as it should. In my mind,
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 23, 2013
      IMO, LVT has made great strides over the last several years. That said, I don't believe it's hit the mainstream here in the US as it should. In my mind, there are two major players on the economic front that could seriously further our cause: Dean Baker & Paul Krugman.

      My idea is to compose an open letter to these two influential economists, which we can use to spread our message, and at least hope to have them confront.

      My hope is to crowd-source this job to this group, so that we can come up with a compelling argument that, even if ignored or dismissed, could be referenced in the future.

      Any initial drafts or thoughts are welcomed. I'll do my best to compile or add to them as I'm able, but I claim no ownership over the project.
    • Ed
      Matt Bieker wrote: IMO, LVT has made great strides over the last several years. That said, I don t believe it s hit the mainstream here in the US as it should.
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 24, 2013

        Matt Bieker wrote:

        IMO, LVT has made great strides over the last several years. That said, I don't believe it's hit the mainstream here in the US as it should. In my mind, there are two major players on the economic front that could seriously further our cause: Dean Baker & Paul Krugman.

        My idea is to compose an open letter to these two influential economists, which we can use to spread our message, and at least hope to have them confront.

        My hope is to crowd-source this job to this group, so that we can come up with a compelling argument that, even if ignored or dismissed, could be referenced in the future.

        Any initial drafts or thoughts are welcomed. I'll do my best to compile or add to them as I'm able, but I claim no ownership over the project.

      • Anthony Binder
        During just the last couple of years I ve seen quite a number of papers and articles on LVT written by people based in NYC/NY state, among them Joseph Stiglitz
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 24, 2013
          During just the last couple of years I've seen quite a number of papers and articles on LVT written by people based in NYC/NY state, among them Joseph Stiglitz - Paul Krugman is based in the vicinty, there msut be around a dozen LVT groups/organisations located in and around NY, and many more located within reasonable travel distance from NYC.

          Wouldn't it be an idea to organisea couple of one day events or a weekend conference?

          We could outline a couple of themes that could include a couple of presentations each and end each day with a debate/panel discussion either monitored or interactive with the audience - if the events could be screened live we could invite chat questions from people following the event online.

          I am sure there are LVT groups with access to conference rooms/halls that could be used for this, and if members here have media contacts we could invite the press as well.

          And of course people could present both research in LVT as well as suggestions on applied econoics.
           
          If we could get both Stiglitz and Krugman on stage I am sure we will draw media attention to such event and if the event produces some manifesto as a final statement, that could really be a useful tool to turn the tide.

          I am sure there is funding for the logistics on such event and I could check with some European organisations for participants as well.
           
          To have a LVT focused series of events bridging over to mainstream media and economists would maybe be a ground breaker.

          I for one would be ready and willing to start working on the program, logistics and organisation of such if there is an interest for it.
           
          This suggestion should of course in no way be seen as an alternative to the open letter, but as a complement, the open letter could be used as an invitation to such event(s) - 'let's talk abouit LVT' -  during the fall.

          Anthony
           
          Matt Bieker wrote:
          IMO, LVT has made great strides over the last several years. That said, I don't believe it's hit the mainstream here in the US as it should. In my mind, there are two major players on the economic front that could seriously further our cause: Dean Baker & Paul Krugman.

          My idea is to compose an open letter to these two influential economists, which we can use to spread our message, and at least hope to have them confront.

          My hope is to crowd-source this job to this group, so that we can come up with a compelling argument that, even if ignored or dismissed, could be referenced in the future.

          Any initial drafts or thoughts are welcomed. I'll do my best to compile or add to them as I'm able, but I claim no ownership over the project.
        • Scott on the Spot
          Krugman may just be opening up to LVT. His most recent editorial was on rent-seeking by monopolists:
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 24, 2013
            Krugman may just be opening up to LVT.
            His most recent editorial was on rent-seeking by monopolists:
            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/opinion/krugman-profits-without-production.html?ref=paulkrugman 
            and he developed the theme further in his blog with a theoretical underpinning:
            http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/rents-and-returns-a-sketch-of-a-model-very-wonkish/ 

            Maybe someone could send him a letter advocating he embrace LVT?

            Not me; these days I'm trying to be a more practical Georgist, rounding up support among the local Electeds and maybe getting LVT bills re-introduced.
            --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" wrote:
            >
            > Matt Bieker wrote:
            >
            > IMO, LVT has made great strides over the last several years. That
            > said, I don't believe it's hit the mainstream here in the US as it
            > should. In my mind, there are two major players on the economic front
            > that could seriously further our cause: Dean Baker & Paul Krugman.
            >
            > My idea is to compose an open letter to these two influential
            > economists, which we can use to spread our message, and at least hope
            > to have them confront.
            >
            > My hope is to crowd-source this job to this group, so that we can come
            > up with a compelling argument that, even if ignored or dismissed,
            > could be referenced in the future.
            >
            > Any initial drafts or thoughts are welcomed. I'll do my best to
            > compile or add to them as I'm able, but I claim no ownership over the
            > project.
            >
            >
            >
            > Ed Dodson here:
            >
            > I am sure Josh Vincent would concur that the reason for the successes
            > in promoting LVT has little to do with what economists are saying and
            > writing and everything to do with long, detailed and difficult
            > interactions with the local elected officials who make decisions about
            > how to raise revenue and balance budgets. The economic literature -
            > even from mainstream think tanks - is filled with papers that support
            > LVT as a public policy.
            >
            >
            >
            > Working with communities directly is a necessary part of the solution.
            > More could be done with more resources and a cadre of well-trained
            > people to do the hard work. Every success provides additional evidence
            > that the theoretical underpinning is valid.
            >
            >
            >
            > What would get the attention of high public officials and economists
            > around the globe is, in my opinion, an economic forecasting service
            > that attracts clients not because of the model used for analysis but
            > because of superior forecasting performance. This sort of initiative
            > also requires consistent funding and a staff of people trained in
            > macroeconomic forecasting who also understand the importance of land
            > markets.
            >
          • Dave Wetzel
            Ed writes: What would get the attention of high public officials and economists around the globe is, in my opinion, an economic forecasting service that
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 25, 2013
              Ed writes: "What would get the attention of high public officials and economists
              around the globe is, in my opinion, an economic forecasting service
              that attracts clients not because of the model used for analysis but
              because of superior forecasting performance. This sort of initiative
              also requires consistent funding and a staff of people trained in
              macroeconomic forecasting who also understand the importance of land
              markets."


              Phil Anderson in Australia seems to make a living out of forecasting using his knowledge of cycles created by the land market.
              --
               
               

              A Geo-Justice Conference

              IU London Conference. Wednesday 24 to Sunday 28 July 2013

              For details see:



                 Dave Wetzel


            • John
              ... Anthony, good ideas. However just do not use the words LAND VALUE TAX.
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 25, 2013
                --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Binder <anthonybinder@...> wrote:
                >
                > During just the last couple of years I've seen quite a number of papers and articles on LVT written by people based in NYC/NY state, among them Joseph Stiglitz - Paul Krugman is based in the vicinty, there msut be around a dozen LVT groups/organisations located in and around NY, and many more located within reasonable travel distance from NYC.
                >
                > Wouldn't it be an idea to organisea couple of one day events or a weekend conference?
                >
                > We could outline a couple of themes that could include a couple of presentations each and end each day with a debate/panel discussion either monitored or interactive with the audience - if the events could be screened live we could invite chat questions from people following the event online.
                >
                > I am sure there are LVT groups with access to conference rooms/halls that could be used for this, and if members here have media contacts we could invite the press as well.
                >
                > And of course people could present both research in LVT as well as suggestions on applied econoics.
                >  
                > If we could get both Stiglitz and Krugman on stage I am sure we will draw media attention to such event and if the event produces some manifesto as a final statement, that could really be a useful tool to turn the tide.
                >
                > I am sure there is funding for the logistics on such event and I could check with some European organisations for participants as well.
                >  
                > To have a LVT focused series of events bridging over to mainstream media and economists would maybe be a ground breaker.
                >
                > I for one would be ready and willing to start working on the program, logistics and organisation of such if there is an interest for it.
                >  
                > This suggestion should of course in no way be seen as an alternative to the open letter, but as a complement, the open letter could be used as an invitation to such event(s) - 'let's talk abouit LVT' -  during the fall.
                >

                Anthony, good ideas. However just do not use the words LAND VALUE TAX.
              • Anthony Binder
                John, OK, if some people have a negative notion of the word tax I am all for changing the terminology, and since my suggestion is to do it in NYC I am open
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 25, 2013
                  John,
                  OK, if some people have a negative notion of the word 'tax' I am all for changing the terminology, and since my suggestion is to do it in NYC I am open for any other wordings.

                  Most people I work with have nothing against the word tax - fiscal redistribution is something most people in Europe I work with feel positive about and a shift away from income/payroll taxes and taxes on consumption is on the agenda among most progressive people, even in the general public in Europe as a whole, whether it's called impôt, Steuer or tax. My experience is that the word bears no negative valeu, but I am OK with another wording focusing on rent perhaps - suggestions appreciated.
                   
                  Maybe someone fromUSA could input here if we intend events to reach the general public in USA
                   
                  Anthony
                   
                   
                   
                  > During just the last couple of years I've seen quite a number of papers and articles on LVT written by people based in NYC/NY state, among them Joseph Stiglitz - Paul Krugman is based in the vicinty, there msut be around a dozen LVT groups/organisations located in and around NY, and many more located within reasonable travel distance from NYC.
                  >
                  > Wouldn't it be an idea to organisea couple of one day events or a weekend conference?
                  >
                  > We could outline a couple of themes that could include a couple of presentations each and end each day with a debate/panel discussion either monitored or interactive with the audience - if the events could be screened live we could invite chat questions from people following the event online.
                  >
                  > I am sure there are LVT groups with access to conference rooms/halls that could be used for this, and if members here have media contacts we could invite the
                  press as well.
                  >
                  > And of course people could present both research in LVT as well as suggestions on applied econoics.
                  >  
                  > If we could get both Stiglitz and Krugman on stage I am sure we will draw media attention to such event and if the event produces some manifesto as a final statement, that could really be a useful tool to turn the tide.
                  >
                  > I am sure there is funding for the logistics on such event and I could check with some European organisations for participants as well.
                  >  
                  > To have a LVT focused series of events bridging over to mainstream media and economists would maybe be a ground breaker.
                  >
                  > I for one would be ready and willing to start working on the program, logistics and organisation of such if there is an interest for it.
                  >  
                  > This suggestion should of course in no way be seen as an alternative to the open letter, but as a complement,
                  the open letter could be used as an invitation to such event(s) - 'let's talk abouit LVT' -  during the fall.
                  >

                  Anthony, good ideas. However just do not use the words LAND VALUE TAX.

                • John
                  ... Anthony, Henry George s idea of the Single Tax, sound as it is, never caught on for obvious reasons. It was perceived as victimizing landlords as it fell
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 25, 2013
                    --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Binder <anthonybinder@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > John,

                    > OK, if some people have a negative notion of the word 'tax' I am all for changing the terminology, and since my suggestion is to do it in NYC I am open for any other wordings.
                    >
                    > Most people I work with have nothing against the word tax - fiscal redistribution is something most people in Europe I work with feel positive about and a shift away from income/payroll taxes and taxes on consumption is on the agenda among most progressive people, even in the general public in Europe as a whole, whether it's called impôt, Steuer or tax. My experience is that the word bears no negative valeu, but I am OK with another wording focusing on rent perhaps - suggestions appreciated.

                    > Maybe someone fromUSA could input here if we intend events to reach the general public in USA

                    Anthony, Henry George's idea of the Single Tax, sound as it is, never caught on for obvious reasons. It was perceived as victimizing landlords as it fell only on LAND.

                    The idea is to reclaim commonly created wealth to pay for common services leaving private income in private pockets. All sensible. In short, reclaiming "unearned income" and "economic rent", which comes in many forms, not just out of land - although most "economic rent" will be in land values. Both of which were not created by the appropriators.

                    LVT was also perceived as just another tax when implemented in Denmark in the early 1960s.

                    Fred Harrison, is one the leading proponents of reclaiming "economic rent". He openly stated that he wasted 30 years banging on about LVT. Now he never uses the words LVT, or Land Value Tax. Once he changed his language and angle people started to take him more seriously. Do you ever hear Michael Hudson bang on about LVT? No.

                    I do not want you all to end up going down a dead end street.
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.