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Re: [LandCafe] Re: Software companies etc would pay little tax with lvt (RPM)

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  • Harry Pollard
    Kj, We don t need those laws and regulations. I always have mechanisms on hand to deal with questions. These are not necessarily the way it will happen but
    Message 1 of 142 , Dec 6, 2012

      We don't need those laws and regulations.

      I always have "mechanisms" on hand to deal with questions. These are not necessarily  the way it will happen but possibilities.

      For example, if patents are removed.

      You come up with a great idea for cars. You take it along to an inventions attorney and he examines it and decides it's sellable. He takes it along to Ford, Chrysler, GM and Toyota, explains the invention and shows them how it will work.

      They decide it's worth putting in their cars and the attorney haggles to get the best price. He gets it from Ford and the sale is made. Ford then incorporates it in their new line.

      What's to stop the attorney from stealing the invention? If he does, no other inventor will approach him. He'll go broke.

      Will the other car companies steal the invention? If they do, no invention attorney will include them in new inventions.

      As for the inventor, if the invention is fairly compliated, it is likely that Ford will hire him to oversee the invention and with Ford engineers perhaps make some improvements.

      Just one possible mechanism.

      In the case of removing copyright a mechanism might be as follows.

      Ordinary writings probably don't have enough sale value to make copying and prionting worthwhile. However, there are two areas that might attract such theft - best sellers and textbooks.

      First, I should make the point that your name and trademark are non-copyable. You use my name and I'll get you for a fraud.

       You are a best-selling author. Each new novel should produce 100,000 sales. The publisher prints the latest in complete security, then releases copies to bookstores all at once on a designated day. Contracts have been made with the bookstores to sell only the new books and not to sell any copies. If they do, they get no more best sellers.

      On the heels of great publicity, the novels sell like hotcakes, including to someone with a copying nachine and a printing press. He gets to work making plates and printing up copies with a different name (perhaps one that looks like yours).

      As he starts visiting used book stores and similar places to sell the books, the paperback version is published and sold in the stores. There isn't much difference in price between the paperback and the copied version and the copies hardly sell. 

      I should say that paperbacks often come out pretty soon after the hardcovers. If my memory serves me, Ballantine some years ago actually published hardcover and paperback at the same time. Don't know how it panned out. Probably didn't.

      The actual 'mechanisms' may be completely different, but they will happen when we get rid of patents and copyrights.


      The Alumni Group 
      The Henry George School
      of Los Angeles
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      On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:29 PM, k_r_johansen <kjetil.r.johansen@...> wrote:

      --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, David Reed <dbcreed@...> wrote:
      > I would have though the simple answer to this is that LVT does not do much good in cases like Amazon where any premises are miles out of town in cheap land environments.But this is ,to some extent, a development (ad absurdum?) of the tendency of supermarkets to move out of town to freestanding middle-of-nowhere sites: land is cheaper ,particularly for car parks.Amazon has sucked all the stock out of small independent book shops by offering big discounts , centralised it, and instead of drawing customers to them in cars, like supermarkets ,despatches books by delivery systems. However we used to have a Net Book Agreement in the UK which stopped this: this was the last vestige of Resale Price Maintenance ,a system by which manufacturers would not supply shops unless they agreed not to discount the recommended retail price. This protected the small and medium size shops from predatory discounting by the big operators as all prices for branded goods were the same.<

      No, no and no. You leftist have this extreme cognitive disonnance within you. You think every sector has some special properties that needs it's own special schemes, and you usually end up hurting the ones you want to protect. We still have a similar Book Law. It sets a minimum price for all recent domestically published books, which noone is allowed to discount before x amount of time has passed. All sorts of idiot arguments are used to defend it "it protects the niche-litterature", "it protects the small independent retailer", it protects everything that is nice.
      First of all, you have to take one step back, what is the purpose of this legislation you are about to defend? Is it to protect litterature or people selling litterature? Is there any good reason to think that making litterature more expensive helps the final consumer in any way? Makes him appreciate niche litterature more? Makes towns prettier?
      Ofcourse not. What the minium prices have done is to concentrate publishers/bookstore ownership even more than would be the case without. The independent bookstores, the independent publishers, they do everything they can to compete in other ways, they are real innovators, and wouldn't flinch to use those "lassez faire" (said in a overbearing manner, eyes rolling) methods of discounts and frequent bargain sales(because they have a wider variety of titles, they have to get them through quickly). In fact the market for foreign litterature which is not subject to the same minimum pricing, is thriving, because it acts in a free pricing environment.
      People through Amazon and other online retailers, order more books because they are cheap, niche books that no bookstores would bother to take in, everyone gains if you look at the actual cause of promoting litterature, not protecting some idea of who is supposed to sell it.

      The rule of thumb when it comes to specific legislation that is intended to protect some portion of the market, is that you *always* hurt the marginal producers, there are always some unintended consequence that distorts the market in favour of someone big who can adapt to it, you create barriers to entry, and the consumer never gains from increasing prices.


    • roy_langston
      ... So you are in fact being paid multiple times for the same work, just as Shaw said. ... No, it is being produced by a publisher and sold by booksellers.
      Message 142 of 142 , Dec 10, 2012
        --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:

        > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@> wrote:
        > > > > > If I write a book and it sells well for
        > > > > > 5 years, where am I being paid many times?
        > > > >
        > > > > You are being paid each time someone buys one.
        > > > > Surely this is obvious.
        > > >
        > > > I am not. Over 5 years if the book
        > > > makes say £100,000 and then publication halts,
        > > > then I have been paid once for that book run.
        > >
        > > No. If you had been paid a flat fee,
        > > that would be one payment.
        > Roy, so what!

        So you are in fact being paid multiple times for the same work, just as Shaw said.

        > If I get paid one fee at the end of a book run or drip fed each time a book is sold, it doesn't matter. One thing that is clear, it is MY book and MY work.

        No, it is being produced by a publisher and sold by booksellers. For whose work YOU are being paid multiple times.

        > The most recorded song in history, by countless artists, is "Yesterday" written by Paul McCartney. He gets a royalty for each record sold, or played on air, by those who copy.

        Getting paid millions of times for the same work, just as Shaw said.

        > Those who copy still make money as well.

        Some do, some don't. How would that be relevant?

        > I see nothing wrong with that. Paul McCartney has never stopped any of them recording his song.

        Then why would they pay him for doing nothing?

        > All the proceeds of his original go to him and rightly so..

        No, it is not just "his original," but all the other arrangements and versions as well.

        > > > He took someone else's effort.
        > >
        > > What do you mean, "took"? He made his
        > > OWN effort, creating a new product which
        > > others did not create.
        > He did not.

        He indisputably did.

        > He took the efforts of other authors R&D and rolled it into one book.

        No, he did his own R&D, making one better book using ideas from worse books.

        > I have always thought of doing the same myself. Within a few weeks a "new" book can be knocked up by using other people's efforts. I am sure it happens all the time.

        And there is nothing wrong with it.

        > > > > > What about the case of a large company
        > > > > > making millions using your work and you get nothing?
        > > > >
        > > > > Good for them: it means they are more productive
        > > > > and efficient than their competitors, who have
        > > > > access to the same knowledge and ideas. If you
        > > > > want to get paid for your work, make an arrangement
        > > > > to get paid before it enters the public domain.
        > > >
        > > > That is pure naivety.
        > >
        > > It is fact.
        > Many Socialists claim all the free market does is allow most money to gather with a few percent of the population.

        Because they refuse to know the facts about how land titles and other privileges, which are no part of a free market, steal from the productive and give to the privileged.

        > They claim a free for all does this so control, or state ownership is needed. We see it now with powerful corporations.

        I see powerful corporations enriching themselves through privilege, not the free market.

        > The right never thought through their ideal - the repercussions of when the free-market is rigged or monopolized.

        The right thinks freedom consists in the privileged being free to remove others' freedom with government's help.

        > Roy, you have this ideal of a free for all re: patents and copyright. I agree with it in principle. But when thought through it falls apart.

        No, it does not.

        > The money will rise to the top.

        <sigh> How much money do Paul McCartney, DisneyCorp, etc. have under the CURRENT system, John?

        > I know it is not right. I do not know the solution to the problem - because I have never thought it through.

        That's OK. I have.

        -- Roy Langston
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