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Re: [LandCafe] Re: The Revival of Retsforbundet

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  • Morten Blaabjerg
    ... No, that s too far back for most to remember. And for young people, almost noone has ever heard about our party. The goal was to become visible again
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 1, 2012
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      On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:22 AM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:
      How are you differentiating your party? What policies stand out?

      LVT is in there but how are you selling it?  On the successes of 1957-60?

      No, that's too far back for most to remember. And for young people, almost noone has ever heard about our party.
      The goal was to become visible again especially for young people and make our appearances as a serious poltiical alternative. Time will tell if we succeed.

      Communications-wise we have identified our common denominator, and surprisingly, it turned out to be "sustainability" - We want a sustainable economy, a sustainable environment, a sustainable world, and a sustainable outlook on life. Retsforbundet is now "Danmarks bæredygtige parti" - Denmark's sustainable party. We are very happy with identifying this, as it joins together much of what we believe under this one concept. Simultanously, it brands us as sustainable, and the established parties as unsustainable. It's a bold move - but one which is very difficult to counter, if I may be so daring to say so. Our new logo reflects this key theme.

      On top of this, all of our policy suggestions on all areas have been remapped and rewritten, accessible in a 40-page pdf on our website, to reflect our renewed focus. Specifically we have picked 4 policy areas as particularly important;

      - economic policy (of course, LVT as measure to achieve a sustainable economy)

      - the environment (sustainable way of life)

      - immigration policies (sustainable outlook on life - working globally to solve global inequalities, while we receive those who do come to our doors as refugees gracefully and respectfully), and

      - an anti-EU and pro-globalism stance (a sustainable global community)

      The above policy areas by no means reflect all of our policies but have mainly been picked as areas where we are capable of positioning ourselves in relation to the existing parties. We will continue to refine and choose the vacant standpoints so that we can further position ourselves on important areas in the time ahead, picking them on the grounds, that should be able to expose our core ideas (LVT, specifically) from different perspectives.

      Best,
      Morten :-)

      "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi



      On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:22 AM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:
       

      --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Morten Blaabjerg <mortenblaabjerg@...> wrote:

      > I'll be happy to hear comments and answer questions, 
      > if you have any. 

      Morten,

      How are you differentiating your party? What policies stand out?

      LVT is in there but how are you selling it?  On the successes of 1957-60?

      The failure of the Justice Party while in power was an underestimation of: 
      1. The population were not educated to what LVT was - Only few Danes knew what LVT was all about, most people did not know the good effects they already experienced because of LVT and that the possibilities of citizens in general would improve further when more LVT would be levied.
      2. That people did not understand that the revenue of LVT belonged to them - It is commonwealth. They never understood where land values came from.
      3. The Power of Landowners & Self-Interest Groups - The powerful Danish media:
        • Produced propaganda that LVT was just another tax, like all other taxes.  
        • They put it across that it is unjust that only landowners should pay all the taxes of the nation. 
        • They emphasized that the poor having no income, or a small income, would not benefit of the reduction of income taxes.


    • John
      ... Morten, a brilliant touch indeed. I will be following with interest. Best of luck.
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 1, 2012
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        --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Morten Blaabjerg <mortenblaabjerg@...> wrote:

        > We want a sustainable
        > economy, a sustainable environment, a sustainable
        > world, and a sustainable outlook on life. Retsforbundet
        > is now "Danmarks bæredygtige parti" - Denmark's sustainable
        > party.

        Morten, a brilliant touch indeed. I will be following with interest.
        Best of luck.
      • roy_langston
        ... It is essential to pound home the fact that all other taxes confiscate privately created value and give it to landowners in return for nothing, while LVT
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 1, 2012
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          --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:

          > The powerful Danish media:
          >
          > * Produced propaganda that LVT was just another tax, like all other taxes.

          It is essential to pound home the fact that all other taxes confiscate privately created value and give it to landowners in return for nothing, while LVT recovers publicly created value for public purposes and benefit, leaving privately created value in its producers' hands where it rightly belongs.

          > * They put it across that it is unjust that only landowners should pay all the taxes of the nation.

          It is essential to pound home the fact that landowners GET all the taxes of the nation, and that land's value simply measures how much of other people's taxes its owner can expect to pocket in return for nothing.

          > * They emphasized that the poor having no income, or a small income, would not benefit of the reduction of income taxes.

          It is essential to advocate not just LVT but LVT+UIE, to restore the people's equal rights to liberty and ensure that all have free, secure access to economic opportunity. The UIE enables a massive reduction of government spending on poverty relief, pensions, etc. as well as combining a more competitive wage structure with a higher real standard of living.

          -- Roy Langston
        • John David Kromkowski
          best wishes. we can only hope the press will not investigate the posts over the years in land cafe and hold it against you. On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 5:05 PM,
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 1, 2012
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            best wishes.  we can only hope the press will not investigate the posts over the years in land cafe and hold it against you.


            On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Morten Blaabjerg <mortenblaabjerg@...> wrote:
             

            I'm one of those subscribers to this list, who are mostly lurking on the ongoing debates.
            Once in a while however I may have something to share, which may be of a broader interest...

            On monday November 26th we had an official "relaunch" in Copenhagen of Retsforbundet, the Danish pro-LVT party of 1919, which participated in the famous Danish "land value reform"-government of 1957-1960, but have not been represented in the Danish parliament since 1981.
            I am a member of the party leadership, and we have worked together the last 3 months with a team of 35 students of strategical political communications studies, who has gone through all our materials and methods, in order to give us a complete make-over (everything except the politics), ranging from a new logo to tools to make it easier for us to communicate with the press.

            I am happy to say the "relaunch" so far was picked up by all major Danish newspapers, with additional television and radio appearances by lead representatives of the party.
            No doubt we have a long road ahead of us - but we believe we succeeded so far in establishing in public discourse the fact that the party still exists, has a strong political agenda which answers directly to the problems faced locally and globally right now, and is still small, but very seriously working for our beliefs and goals, to provide an alternative to the parties currently in power. Following the mass media attention we have turned all our focus on following up in social media, most notably on blogs and debates, and on Facebook.

            We would be grateful if you'd stop by if only to "like" and "follow" but also to take a look at how we're doing.
            I'll be happy to hear comments and answer questions, if you have any. And to follow what's going on, I suggest using Google Translate or a similar service, just to get an idea of the discussions.

            Our new website is at http://retsforbundet.dk
            Our Twitter profile is at https://twitter.com/Retsforbundet
            Our FB page is here : http://www.facebook.com/pages/Retsforbundet-Danmarks-b%C3%A6redygtige-parti/214488091924495

            Yours Sincerely/

            Med venlig hilsen

            Morten Blaabjerg
            Flygtninge- og integrationsordfører

            Tlf. 51 80 91 55

            mblaa@...




            RETSFORBUNDET - Lyngbyvej 42 - 2100 København Ø - Tlf. 51 20 44 63
            info@... - www.retsforbundet.dk





            --
            Very truly yours

            John D. Kromkowski
            6803 York Road -- Suite 207
            Baltimore, MD 21212

            Tel     410-377-6248
            Fax     410-372-0624
            Mobile  443-271-0500

            This communication, along with any documents, files or attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of any information contained in or attached to this communication is strictly prohibited.

            If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy the original communication and its attachments without reading, printing or saving  in any manner.
          • roy_langston
            Here are a few suggested talking points. ... Land value measures the subsidy to the landowner. Increasing land value indicates increasing subsidy. That s
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 1, 2012
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              Here are a few suggested talking points.

              --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Morten Blaabjerg <mortenblaabjerg@...> wrote:

              > - economic policy (of course, LVT as measure to achieve a sustainable economy)

              "Land value measures the subsidy to the landowner. Increasing land value indicates increasing subsidy. That's not sustainable. We've seen the proof in Japan's land value boom of the 1980s, which gave them a 20-year recession. We saw it in the American land bubble of the 2000s that forced their government into debt to rescue the rich bankers, and many other examples in Ireland, Spain, Iceland, the UK, and on and on. Subsidizing landowners is like economic drug addiction: it feels great at first, but then you need more and more of it just to avoid feeling awful. The current government's policy of addiction to subsidies for landowners is not sustainable."

              > - the environment (sustainable way of life)

              "It starts with understanding that people are all equal in their rights to live on earth, and to access and enjoy what nature provided equally to all. So the people who appropriate and use up more than their fair share of nature's gifts should pay just compensation to the community of those they are depriving of their fair share."

              > - immigration policies (sustainable outlook on life - working globally to
              > solve global inequalities, while we receive those who do come to our doors as refugees gracefully and respectfully), and

              "We can best help people in poorer countries by example: showing them how to create free, just, prosperous, and sustainable economies in their own countries. We need to do it here first, to show them how it is done, and how they can do it, too."

              > - an anti-EU and pro-globalism stance (a sustainable global community)

              "The EU imposes unsustainable policies on us like the banksters' euro, which Greece, Spain and the rest have proved is not a sustainable money system because it is based on feeding the banks' addiction to lending for land speculation."

              > The above policy areas by no means reflect all of our policies but have
              > mainly been picked as areas where we are capable of positioning ourselves
              > in relation to the existing parties. We will continue to refine and choose
              > the vacant standpoints so that we can further position ourselves on
              > important areas in the time ahead, picking them on the grounds, that should
              > be able to expose our core ideas (LVT, specifically) from different
              > perspectives.

              I hope the above may be of help. If you want more suggestions, I'll see what I can do.

              -- Roy Langston
            • John
              ... I do not think the Euro, no more than the US dollar, has anything to do with that. The problem with the Euro is that it may be overvalued for some
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 2, 2012
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                --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:


                > > - an anti-EU and pro-globalism stance
                > > (a sustainable global community)
                >
                > "The EU imposes unsustainable policies
                > on us like the banksters' euro, which
                > Greece, Spain and the rest have proved
                > is not a sustainable money system because
                > it is based on feeding the banks' addiction
                > to lending for land speculation."

                I do not think the Euro, no more than the US dollar, has anything to do with that.

                The problem with the Euro is that it may be overvalued for some countries and undervalued for others. That could apply to the US dollar. The southern states are getting into biomass fuel, using
                sustainably-sourced renewable biofuel wood pellets and exporting it to Europe. Tibury Power station near London is using the pellets and few other changing over from coal. Germany and Holland use the pellets. Devaluing the dollar may mean they do greater business, but it stays high because of commerce/industry elsewhere in the USA. The Euro is just another currency.

                We are in the EU and it worked well until the CC. Many are anti-EU because of the crisis and seeing that they are bailing out the PIIGS - some of the PIIGS were just plain fianacially irresponsible.

                In the UK we have the anti EU UKip party. IMO, they tend to get votes from older people who are bigots, racists or just confused. The UK is in the EU but not in he Euro zone. The pound is still used. Currently, maybe the best of both worlds. The EU brings political stability - maybe we now have generations that did not see the needless carnage of WW2 or feel the after effects of austerity. Being anti-EU is not a positive measure. Most people view that it is here and it is not going away and getting out is financial suicide.

                Promoting Genomics to Brussels maybe a good ploy - economic stability resulting in political stability, etc.
              • John
                ... other taxes. ... confiscate privately created value and give it to landowners in return for nothing, while LVT recovers publicly created value for
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 2, 2012
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                  --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" burns-john@ wrote:

                  > > The powerful Danish media:
                  > > 
                  > > * Produced propaganda that LVT was 
                  > > just another tax, like all other taxes.

                  > It is essential to pound home the fact that all other
                  >  taxes confiscate privately created value and give it 
                  > to landowners in return for nothing, while LVT recovers 
                  > publicly created value for public purposes and benefit, 
                  > leaving privately created value in its producers' hands 
                  > where it rightly belongs.
                  Also to emphasise that Income Tax penalizes the productive and LVT promotes enterprise and productivity.  Also it is how it is put across.   Some Marxist made it look like war on the wealthy.  You do not want to make it look like its is war on landowners. Landowners benefit as well. That must be emphasised.

                  That is why Geonomics is far better and a better word - use Land Value Tax as little as possible.  Geonomics is NOT a single tax, so no one can be accused of victimizing one section - landowners.  Geonomics uses commonwealth in land and resources and collectively created economic growth to fund society - while promoting productivity by eliminating harmful Income and Sales taxes.
                   
                  That is very "sustainable".  

                  Another point is that economic stability is promoted and virtually ensured within the nation.  No boom & busts.  The effect of Credit Crunch are still with us, look at Greece and Spain (the PIIGS), this is easier to sell.  OK, if a world-wide crash comes a country like Denmark will slide in with them, but the effect will be less and recovery easier and less painful.

                  Also it has to emphasised that the whole thing is just a tax shift. The system stays the same. Business behaviour stays the same. 
                  > > * They put it across that it is unjust that only 
                  > > landowners should pay all the taxes of the nation.

                  > It is essential to pound home the fact that landowners 
                  > GET all the taxes of the nation, and that land's value 
                  > simply measures how much of other people's taxes 
                  > its owner can expect to pocket in return for nothing.
                  It is how that is put across to millions of people who currently just do not see it that way and regard land as a capital item like a car or washing machine.  It is not worth putting across economic theories that must people will have difficulty grasping.
                  > > * They emphasized that the poor having no income, 
                  > > or a small income, would not benefit of the reduction 
                  > > of income taxes.

                  > It is essential to advocate not just LVT but LVT+UIE, to 
                  restore the people's equal rights to liberty and ensure 
                  > that all have free, secure access to economic opportunity. 
                  > The UIE enables a massive reduction of government spending 
                  > on poverty relief, pensions, etc. as well as combining a more 
                  > competitive wage structure with a higher real standard of living.

                  Most of that will go over their heads. Most are only interested in what is in it for them. Currently selling stability and eco is worth it.
                • roy_langston
                  ... The dollar and sterling are also debt money based on lending for land speculation and thus not sustainable. As we have seen. ... Not at all. It is a
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 2, 2012
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                    --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:

                    > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > > - an anti-EU and pro-globalism stance
                    > > > (a sustainable global community)
                    > >
                    > > "The EU imposes unsustainable policies
                    > > on us like the banksters' euro, which
                    > > Greece, Spain and the rest have proved
                    > > is not a sustainable money system because
                    > > it is based on feeding the banks' addiction
                    > > to lending for land speculation."
                    >
                    > I do not think the Euro, no more than the US dollar, has anything to do with that.

                    The dollar and sterling are also debt money based on lending for land speculation and thus not sustainable. As we have seen.

                    > The Euro is just another currency.

                    Not at all. It is a transnational debt money that can't be managed using national fiscal levers the way the dollar and sterling can.

                    > We are in the EU and it worked well until the CC.

                    I.e., NOT SUSTAINABLY.

                    > Many are anti-EU because of the crisis and seeing that they are bailing out the PIIGS - some of the PIIGS were just plain fianacially irresponsible.

                    They all were, because they all subsidized idle landowning.

                    > Being anti-EU is not a positive measure. Most people view that it is here and it is not going away and getting out is financial suicide.

                    Being anti-EU is a positive measure because the EU requires member nations to adopt unjust and harmful policies like VAT.

                    > Promoting Genomics to Brussels maybe a good ploy - economic stability resulting in political stability, etc.

                    That would more effectively be done by a member government already successfully thriving under geonomic policies, and very loudly and publicly asking Brussels why EU members are required to follow stupid, unjust, harmful and evil policies.

                    -- Roy Langston
                  • roy_langston
                    ... At some point, landowners need to understand that in the long term it is LVT or the abyss. The GFC was a warning, just as Japan s land crash of 1990 was a
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 2, 2012
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                      --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:

                      > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > It is essential to pound home the fact that all other> taxes
                      > confiscate privately created value and give it > to landowners in return
                      > for nothing, while LVT recovers > publicly created value for public
                      > purposes and benefit, > leaving privately created value in its
                      > producers' hands > where it rightly belongs.
                      >
                      > Also to emphasise that
                      > Income Tax penalizes the productive and LVT promotes enterprise and
                      > productivity. Also it is how it is put across. Some Marxist made it
                      > look like war on the wealthy. You do not want to make it look like its is war on landowners.

                      At some point, landowners need to understand that in the long term it is LVT or the abyss. The GFC was a warning, just as Japan's land crash of 1990 was a warning.

                      > Landowners benefit as well.

                      No, landowners qua landowners are the only losers.

                      > That must be emphasised.

                      We should be honest.

                      > That is why Geonomics is far better and a better word - use Land Value Tax as little as possible.

                      Something like "common value recovery."

                      > Geonomics is NOT a single tax, so no one can be accused of victimizing one section - landowners.

                      It is landowners who are victimizing everyone else. We must not shrink from identifying that fact.

                      > Also it has to emphasised that the whole thing is just a tax shift. The system stays the same. Business behaviour stays the same.

                      Business behavior does not stay the same. It changes from lobbying, rent seeking and taking to investing, competing and producing.

                      > > It is essential to pound home the fact that landowners > GET all the
                      > taxes of the nation, and that land's value > simply measures how much of
                      > other people's taxes > its owner can expect to pocket in return for
                      > nothing.
                      >
                      > It is how that is put across to millions of people who currently
                      > just do not see it that way and regard land as a capital item like a car
                      > or washing machine. It is not worth putting across economic theories that must people will have difficulty grasping.

                      It is ESSENTIAL to inform people of the economic truth that will set them free. ESSENTIAL.

                      > > > * They emphasized
                      > that the poor having no income, > > or a small income, would not benefit
                      > of the reduction > > of income taxes.
                      > >
                      > > It is essential to advocate not just LVT but LVT+UIE, to > restore the
                      > people's equal rights to liberty and ensure > that all have free, secure
                      > access to economic opportunity. > The UIE enables a massive reduction of
                      > government spending > on poverty relief, pensions, etc. as well as
                      > combining a more > competitive wage structure with a higher real
                      > standard of living.
                      >
                      > Most of that will go over their heads.

                      You just have to find ways of saying it that they will feel in their gut. "Your real disposable income will double or triple. You will be able to buy a house without going into debt slavery for decades. Your family will be able to afford the kind of comforts you currently have to buy for landowners and bankers."

                      > Most are only interested in what
                      > is in it for them. Currently selling stability and eco is worth it.

                      Liberty, justice and prosperity are in it for them. Next to those, stability and eco seem like pretty weak beer to me.

                      -- Roy Langston
                    • John
                      ... The money supply is based on debt. The more debt the more money is printed . ... I can be managed but not as effectively as the dollar or Stirling. ...
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 2, 2012
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                        --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@> wrote:
                        >
                        > > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > > - an anti-EU and pro-globalism stance
                        > > > > (a sustainable global community)
                        > > >
                        > > > "The EU imposes unsustainable policies
                        > > > on us like the banksters' euro, which
                        > > > Greece, Spain and the rest have proved
                        > > > is not a sustainable money system because
                        > > > it is based on feeding the banks' addiction
                        > > > to lending for land speculation."
                        > >
                        > > I do not think the Euro, no more than the US
                        > > dollar, has anything to do with that.
                        >
                        > The dollar and sterling are also debt money
                        > based on lending for land speculation and
                        > thus not sustainable. As we have seen.

                        The money supply is based on debt. The more debt the more money is "printed".

                        > > The Euro is just another currency.
                        >
                        > Not at all. It is a transnational debt
                        > money that can't be managed using national
                        > fiscal levers the way the dollar and
                        > sterling can.

                        I can be managed but not as effectively as the dollar or Stirling.

                        > > We are in the EU and it worked well until the CC.
                        >
                        > I.e., NOT SUSTAINABLY.

                        The EU is sustainable. That is argument could be placed at the United States over 100 years ago.

                        > > Many are anti-EU because of the
                        > > crisis and seeing that they are
                        > > bailing out the PIIGS - some of
                        > > the PIIGS were just plain fianacially
                        > > irresponsible.
                        >
                        > They all were, because they all subsidized idle landowning.
                        >
                        > > Being anti-EU is not a positive
                        > > measure. Most people view that it is
                        > > here and it is not going away and
                        > > getting out is financial suicide.
                        >
                        > Being anti-EU is a positive measure
                        > because the EU requires member nations
                        > to adopt unjust and harmful policies like VAT.

                        That can always be changed and should be. A country can ignore it and see what happens.

                        > > Promoting Genomics to Brussels
                        > > maybe a good ploy - economic stability
                        > > resulting in political stability, etc.
                        >
                        > That would more effectively be done by
                        > a member government already successfully
                        > thriving under geonomic policies,

                        It could be. But the EU is into stability.
                      • Harry Pollard
                        John, When a country is doing badly, its money loses value as others are not so keen to deal with it. This is one of the market reactions that are so useful to
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 6, 2012
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                          John,

                          When a country is doing badly, its money loses value as others are not so keen to deal with it. This is one of the market reactions that are so useful to international trade.

                          The Euro doesn't allow a separate country in Europe to enjoy (or suffer) this reaction. So, Greece's money keeps value even as the economy is going into the drink. That's a major problem with the Euro.

                          I've just realised. I don't know who in Europe produces and distributes the Euro.

                          Where do Euros come from?

                          Harry 

                          ********************
                          The Alumni Group 
                          The Henry George School
                          of Los Angeles
                          Tujunga   CA   90243
                          (818) 352-4141
                          ********************



                          On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:34 AM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:
                           



                          --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:

                          > > - an anti-EU and pro-globalism stance
                          > > (a sustainable global community)
                          >
                          > "The EU imposes unsustainable policies
                          > on us like the banksters' euro, which
                          > Greece, Spain and the rest have proved
                          > is not a sustainable money system because
                          > it is based on feeding the banks' addiction
                          > to lending for land speculation."

                          I do not think the Euro, no more than the US dollar, has anything to do with that.

                          The problem with the Euro is that it may be overvalued for some countries and undervalued for others. That could apply to the US dollar. The southern states are getting into biomass fuel, using
                          sustainably-sourced renewable biofuel wood pellets and exporting it to Europe. Tibury Power station near London is using the pellets and few other changing over from coal. Germany and Holland use the pellets. Devaluing the dollar may mean they do greater business, but it stays high because of commerce/industry elsewhere in the USA. The Euro is just another currency.

                          We are in the EU and it worked well until the CC. Many are anti-EU because of the crisis and seeing that they are bailing out the PIIGS - some of the PIIGS were just plain fianacially irresponsible.

                          In the UK we have the anti EU UKip party. IMO, they tend to get votes from older people who are bigots, racists or just confused. The UK is in the EU but not in he Euro zone. The pound is still used. Currently, maybe the best of both worlds. The EU brings political stability - maybe we now have generations that did not see the needless carnage of WW2 or feel the after effects of austerity. Being anti-EU is not a positive measure. Most people view that it is here and it is not going away and getting out is financial suicide.

                          Promoting Genomics to Brussels maybe a good ploy - economic stability resulting in political stability, etc.


                        • John
                          ... Harry, the same can be said for inside a country. The UK government is obsessed with maintaining London as a world-class city and world financial centre.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 6, 2012
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                            --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > John,
                            >
                            > When a country is doing badly, its money loses value as others are not so
                            > keen to deal with it. This is one of the market reactions that are so
                            > useful to international trade.
                            >
                            > The Euro doesn't allow a separate country in Europe to enjoy (or suffer)
                            > this reaction. So, Greece's money keeps value even as the economy is going
                            > into the drink. That's a major problem with the Euro.
                            >
                            > I've just realised. I don't know who in Europe produces and distributes the
                            > Euro.
                            >

                            Harry, the same can be said for inside a country. The UK government is obsessed with maintaining London as a world-class city and world financial centre. Currency value and interest rates are geared to what is beneficial to London, which may mean it acts against the much poorer North East of England.
                          • John
                            ... Roy here is a 60 min BBC doc, last April or May, on the collapse of the euro. The Great Euro Crash - 2012
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 9, 2012
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                              --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@> wrote:
                              >
                              > > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > > - an anti-EU and pro-globalism stance
                              > > > > (a sustainable global community)
                              > > >
                              > > > "The EU imposes unsustainable policies
                              > > > on us like the banksters' euro, which
                              > > > Greece, Spain and the rest have proved
                              > > > is not a sustainable money system because
                              > > > it is based on feeding the banks' addiction
                              > > > to lending for land speculation."
                              > >
                              > > I do not think the Euro, no more than the US dollar, has anything to do with that.
                              >
                              > The dollar and sterling are also debt
                              > money based on lending for land
                              > speculation and thus not sustainable. As we have seen.
                              >
                              > > The Euro is just another currency.
                              >
                              > Not at all. It is a transnational
                              > debt money that can't be managed using
                              > national fiscal levers the way the dollar and sterling can.
                              >

                              Roy here is a 60 min BBC doc, last April or May, on the collapse of the euro.

                              The Great Euro Crash - 2012
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyNekAJ6rA8&feature=g-high-rec

                              Using land as collateral was at the core which they seem to flit over. Greece told lies to get into the euro. The Brits wisely kept out. The idea behind the euro was fine. Not enough scrutiny of entry and control was around.

                              A poor agricultural country needs to gets its economy right before joining the likes of Germany and France.
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