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RE: [LandCafe] Mansion Tax

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  • David Reed
    As Mark Wadsworth has been at pains to make clear recently,he is founder of the Young People s Party, a Land Tax front movement that put up a candidate in the
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 22, 2012
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      As Mark Wadsworth has been at pains to make clear recently,he is founder of the Young People's Party, a Land Tax front movement that put up a candidate in the Corby bye-election.By modern standards he is almost exactly dead-centre politically. 
       

      To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
      From: burns-john@...
      Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:40:28 +0000
      Subject: [LandCafe] Mansion Tax

       
      I noticed a group of Conservative London MPs collectively wrote a letter to the London Evening Standard - last night's edition - slagging the LibDems "Mansion Tax".

      It was an empty letter and they even brought out the "old Widow Bogey" as Churchill called it, saying it was "granny tax".

      The Mansion Tax is attributed to Vince Cable of the LibDems in the coalition. He proposed that all properties valued at over £2m would be taxed at 1%.

      In larger houses, the land values tend to be greater in proportion to the building.  So this makes some sense. In a recent poll 2/3 approved of it.

      I noticed Mark Wadsworth picked up on it and slagged it in his blog - he is in the Conservative Party I believe.


      I have pasted Mark's critique here. I am sure he doesn't mind.....

      It took a dozen Tory MPs to compile a cracking summary of at least eighteen completely false and misleading claims, which they helpfully summarised in a letter to the Evening Standard (21 Nov 2012, page 57):

      As MPs representing London constituencies, we are very worried about the effect of a new property tax being proposed by the Liberal Democrats.(1)

      Additional local property taxes would hit ordinary families (2) and pensioners(3) who have worked hard, saved carefully and paid their taxes.(4) It would include those with large mortgages(5) who are not otherwise capital-rich,(6) and professionals who live in shared houses in London.(7) Pensioners now on modest income living in their long-standing family home would be hit the hardest.(8)

      The revaluation process need to impose this new tax requires inspectors to visit people's homes,(9) would take three years to complete,(10) and cost taxpayers over a quarter of a billion pounds.(11)

      We believe that there are much better ways to ensure that the most well-off in society pay their fair share of tax.(12) The Lib-Dem "mansion tax" would turn out to be a "granny tax" fuelled by the politics of envy.(13) It would be another blow on top of the heavy burden of council tax which doubled under the last Labour government.(14)

      It is costly, bureaucratic(15) and unfair:(16) Government ministers should resist this attack on those Londoners(17) who have worked hard all their lives and done the right thing.(18)

      Bob Neill, Mike Freer, Nick De Bois, Bob Blackman, Angela Watkinson, Matthew Offord, Andrew Rosindell, Angie Bray, Zac Goldsmith, Mark Field and Mary Maclead, London Conservative MPs

      1) Mainly they're concerned for their own buy-at-taxpayers'-expense-to-let portfolios and their banker friends.

      2) Lie. Ordinary families in London do not live in homes worth more than £1 million or £2 million or whatever the cut-off point is.

      3) Poor Widow Bogey.

      4) Irrelevance. Massive windfall gains have accrued to everybody who bought a house in London over the past few decades, regardless of whether they were otherwise hard-working, careful savers or honest taxpayers.

      5) A few of them yes, the proposed "mansion tax" would be about as terrible as an interest rate hike of rather less than one per cent. We can reasonably expect them to have budgeted for that, and they'll still probably be paying less than they originally budgeted for if they bought more than five years ago.

      6) Since when does not being "capital-rich" have anything to do with it? isn't the traditional rallying cry that "Taxes on the rental value of land would hit the capital-rich, cash-poor"?

      7) Who by implication are tenants. The Home-Owner-Ist élite celebrates the fact that London rents are rising year on year, and the tax would be borne by the owners not the tenants anyway.

      8) Poor Widow Bogey again. Is it so terrible if they bank some of their million pound winnings and move elsewhere, so that a truly hard working/high earning family can move in?

      9) Outright lie.

      10) Outright lie.

      11) Outright lie based on actual fact. The Morbidly Obese One claimed recently that doing a full Council Tax revaluation for the whole of the country would cost about £260 million, which is less than £10 per home and is the sort of thing that ought to be done in the interests of fairness anyway, or would you rather than HMRC saves itself a few quid by insisting you continue to pay tax based on your earnings of twenty-one years ago?

      12) But they don't say it. Therefore lie.

      13) Woah! Let's say we scrapped NIC, VAT and higher rate income tax and just had flat 20% flat income tax. Would that be "politics of envy" or a "rich giveaway"? For sure, somebody earning a million quid a year would be about £400,000 a year better off, but he'd still be chipping in £200,000 a year to the general pot, i.e. forty times as much as an average earner. Why is it so terrible to expect somebody in a £2 million house to pay ten times as much Council Tax as somebody in a median value home? Why does the latter count as "politics of envy" but not a proposal for a low-rate flat income tax?

      14) The Council Tax is pennies, it raises less than the taxes on booze and fags. And even the "mansion tax" would be a lot, lot, lot less than what the old Domestic Rates would have been, which the Tories thoughtfully abolished in the 1980s.

      15) Taxes on land are neither costly to administer nor particularly bureaucratic. That £260 million potential cost of a full Council Tax revaluation is less than one per cent of annual Council Tax receipts, and collection rates are very good (which means that the honest don't end up paying for the dishonest).

      16) Define "fair".

      17) But income tax is also an "attack on Londoners" because people in London have the highest incomes. Simple fact is that a tax on land values is a tax on land values, if land values are highest in London, then so be it.

      18) Lie. People who are sitting on massive unearned windfall land price gains have usually done little or nothing to deserve them, it's like a lottery but more corrupt (and yes, I have also banked massive unearned windfall land price gains, which I duly declared for CGT, unlike most MPs, and it just sort of lands on your doormat, there is little skill or hard work involved).


    • Dave Wetzel
      Mark is not a Conservative Party member. He used to be UKIP and is now a founder member of the Young People s Party formed earlier this year to fight UK
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 23, 2012
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        Mark is not a Conservative Party member.
        He used to be UKIP and is now a founder member of the Young People's Party formed earlier this year to fight UK by-elections on an LVT platform.

         Dave Wetzel

      • John
        ... At polling only 39 votes in the Corby by-election a few weeks ago, it is clear their angle in putting it across is wrong. OK, they have no money.
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 24, 2012
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          --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "derekrss" <derekrss@...> wrote:

          > He's now joined a few other people to
          > set up a party, The Young People's Party (UK),
          > to fight by-elections. Its manifesto is Georgist
          > as you can see on its website, http://www.yppuk.org/

          At polling only 39 votes in the Corby by-election a few weeks ago, it is clear their angle in putting it across is wrong. OK, they have no money.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corby_by-election,_2012#Result

          Maybe it is best to lobby from within one of the main established parties to effect change.
        • roy_langston
          ... Calling it the Young People s Party is self-evidently idiotic. Its appeal is limited to the demographic that is not only the poorest, least willing, and
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 24, 2012
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            --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:

            > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "derekrss" <derekrss@> wrote:
            >
            > > He's now joined a few other people to
            > > set up a party, The Young People's Party (UK),
            > > to fight by-elections. Its manifesto is Georgist
            > > as you can see on its website, http://www.yppuk.org/
            >
            > At polling only 39 votes in the Corby by-election a few weeks ago, it is clear their angle in putting it across is wrong. OK, they have no money.

            Calling it the "Young People's Party" is self-evidently idiotic. Its appeal is limited to the demographic that is not only the poorest, least willing, and least able to make political donations, but least likely to vote. Duh. Call it the Raving Loony Party and be done with it.

            -- Roy Langston
          • John
            ... A good name for a party, however it is already claimed and a well established and respected party.
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 25, 2012
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              --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@> wrote:
              >
              > > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "derekrss" <derekrss@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > He's now joined a few other people to
              > > > set up a party, The Young People's Party (UK),
              > > > to fight by-elections. Its manifesto is Georgist
              > > > as you can see on its website, http://www.yppuk.org/
              > >
              > > At polling only 39 votes in the Corby by-election a few weeks ago, it is clear their angle in putting it across is wrong. OK, they have no money.
              >
              > Calling it the "Young People's Party"
              > is self-evidently idiotic. Its appeal
              > is limited to the demographic that is
              > not only the poorest, least willing,
              > and least able to make political donations,
              > but least likely to vote. Duh. Call
              > it the Raving Loony Party and be done with it.

              A good name for a party, however it is already claimed and a well established and respected party.
            • Harry Pollard
              When I took an interest in politics after WWII I joined the Liberal Party because I liked their emphasis on liberty and justice for all . They were free
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 25, 2012
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                When I took an interest in politics after WWII I joined the Liberal Party because I liked their emphasis on 'liberty and justice for all'. They were free traders and land value taxers.

                I realized much later I should have joined either the Labour or Conservative party - didn't matter which, my philosophy wouldn't have changed.

                But, I was young and the Liberals were pretty good people.

                Harry

                ********************
                The Alumni Group 
                The Henry George School
                of Los Angeles
                Tujunga   CA   90243
                (818) 352-4141
                ********************



                On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 5:35 PM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:
                 

                --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "derekrss" <derekrss@...> wrote:

                > He's now joined a few other people to
                > set up a party, The Young People's Party (UK),
                > to fight by-elections. Its manifesto is Georgist
                > as you can see on its website, http://www.yppuk.org/

                At&#65279; polling only 39 votes in the Corby by-election a few weeks ago, it is clear their angle in putting it across is wrong. OK, they have no money.
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corby_by-election,_2012#Result

                Maybe it is best to lobby from within one of the main established parties to effect change.


              • John
                ... As over half the Labour MPs in 1945 were for LVT, forming a Labour lobby group then would have made sense. The Liberals became an unelectable has-been
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 25, 2012
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                  --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > When I took an interest in politics after WWII
                  > I joined the Liberal Party because I liked their
                  > emphasis on 'liberty and justice for all'. They were
                  > free traders and land value taxers.
                  >
                  > I realized much later I should have joined either
                  > the Labour or Conservative party - didn't matter which, my
                  > philosophy wouldn't have changed.

                  As over half the Labour MPs in 1945 were for LVT, forming a Labour lobby group then would have made sense.

                  The Liberals became an unelectable has-been party in the 1960/60/70s because of the first past the post system we have. I recall David Alton in Liverpool lifted the party on a local level and raised it image on the national level. Then came the SDP merger.

                  But... 40-50 years ago 97% of people voted for Labour or the Tories. Now those two are down into the 60 percents. More people, because of the internet, many TV channels, etc are not following the crowd any longer.

                  > But, I was young and the Liberals were pretty good people.

                  Harry, they still are. I find Liberals are generally more intellectual than the two others. A very middle class party. The Tories I find are sociopaths supported by sycophants, who have kept the UK back big time.
                • John
                  ... The Raving Loony Party started in the early 1960s as the National teenage Party - a single issue party to get the vote and age of consent down from 21 to
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 26, 2012
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                    --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "derekrss" <derekrss@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > He's now joined a few other people to
                    > > > set up a party, The Young People's Party (UK),
                    > > > to fight by-elections. Its manifesto is Georgist
                    > > > as you can see on its website, http://www.yppuk.org/
                    > >
                    > > At polling only 39 votes in the Corby
                    > > by-election a few weeks ago, it is clear
                    > > their angle in putting it across is wrong.
                    > > OK, they have no money.
                    >
                    > Calling it the "Young People's Party" is
                    > self-evidently idiotic. Its appeal is limited
                    > to the demographic that is not only the poorest,
                    > least willing, and least able to make political
                    > donations, but least likely to vote. Duh.
                    > Call it the Raving Loony Party and be done with it.

                    The Raving Loony Party started in the early 1960s as the National teenage Party - a single issue party to get the vote and age of consent down from 21 to 18. They achieved that.

                    But young people had something to latch onto. It do not see them running headlong towards LVT thinking it will make their lives better.

                    I did like the Raving Loony Party's economic policies in the late 80s/early 90s. It was do not stop digging the Channel Tunnel, go right under France and come up in Switzerland under the bank vaults - economy solved.

                    Calling this Young People's Party (UK) something with "geo" in it would be better. Geo equals land which equals nature which equals eco which equals all we need to survive.

                    That has abroad appeal. They had better drop Henry George and his Single Tax and go for all things "Geo".
                  • Dave Wetzel
                    After Harold Wilson supported American bombing of Hanoi I joined the Young Liberals with Peter Hain etc. but found the local Liberals to be racist and soon
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 26, 2012
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                      After Harold Wilson supported American bombing of Hanoi I joined the Young Liberals with Peter Hain etc. but found the local Liberals to be racist and soon rejoined Labour.

                       Dave Wetzel


                    • David Reed
                      The Liberals after WW2 whom Harry knew must have been in some kind of time warp because laissez faire ,which he supports unswervingly had lost its hegemony
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 26, 2012
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                        The Liberals after WW2 whom Harry knew must have been in some kind of time warp because laissez faire ,which he supports unswervingly  had lost its hegemony after 1870 when Joseph Chamberlain as Mayor started buying up the competing private sector utility providers in Birmingham and instituting public sector monopolies instead.There was little difference between the New Liberalism, as it was called, and early gas-and-water socialism as these New Liberals like Churchill and Lloyd George introduced first National Insurance and then of course LVT in the People's Budget of 1909.Chamberlain was heavily influenced by Henry George and Chamberlain's Radical Programme proposals for local authorities buying up land and dishing it out leasehold still make sense.As to laissez faire in international trade,Chamberlain rejected it entirely and stood for  Imperial Preference which could ultimately have evolved into a Common Market of the Commonwealth countries, a cause I supported  after being recruited into a left-wing group (in Brighton )that campaigned against the EC  on this basis ,so obscure that I can't really remember its name.
                        However Respect to Harry for campaigning on these principles and standing up at Speakers' Corner on grounds of sheer physical courage at a time when the tide of Collectivism was at the full.
                         

                        To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
                        From: burns-john@...
                        Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:19:25 +0000
                        Subject: [LandCafe] Re: Mansion Tax

                         
                        --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > When I took an interest in politics after WWII
                        > I joined the Liberal Party because I liked their
                        > emphasis on 'liberty and justice for all'. They were
                        > free traders and land value taxers.
                        >
                        > I realized much later I should have joined either
                        > the Labour or Conservative party - didn't matter which, my
                        > philosophy wouldn't have changed.

                        As over half the Labour MPs in 1945 were for LVT, forming a Labour lobby group then would have made sense.

                        The Liberals became an unelectable has-been party in the 1960/60/70s because of the first past the post system we have. I recall David Alton in Liverpool lifted the party on a local level and raised it image on the national level. Then came the SDP merger.

                        But... 40-50 years ago 97% of people voted for Labour or the Tories. Now those two are down into the 60 percents. More people, because of the internet, many TV channels, etc are not following the crowd any longer.

                        > But, I was young and the Liberals were pretty good people.

                        Harry, they still are. I find Liberals are generally more intellectual than the two others. A very middle class party. The Tories I find are sociopaths supported by sycophants, who have kept the UK back big time.


                      • walto
                        ... The Raving Geo-Loony Party? ; } W
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 26, 2012
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                          --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:
                          >

                          > I did like the Raving Loony Party's economic policies in the late 80s/early 90s. It was do not stop digging the Channel Tunnel, go right under France and come up in Switzerland under the bank vaults - economy solved.
                          >
                          > Calling this Young People's Party (UK) something with "geo" in it would be better. Geo equals land which equals nature which equals eco which equals all we need to survive.
                          >
                          > That has abroad appeal. They had better drop Henry George and his Single Tax and go for all things "Geo".
                          >

                          The Raving Geo-Loony Party?

                          ;>}

                          W
                        • John
                          ... That does have ring to it. The Raving Loony Party do contest many seats in each election. Candidate Howling Laud Hope actually gained a local seat in
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 26, 2012
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                            --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "walto" <calhorn@...> wrote:

                            > The Raving Geo-Loony Party?

                            That does have ring to it.

                            The Raving Loony Party do contest many seats in each election. Candidate Howling Laud Hope actually gained a local seat in Ashburton Town Council in Devon in 1987, with the candidate, subsequently becoming Mayor of Ashburton in 1998. In 2010, they were elected to a seat at the Fleet Council in Hampshire.

                            Howling Laud Hope, and his pet cat, were appointed leaders of the party. Howling Laud Hope was a backing singer with founder Screaming Lord Such.

                            They are famous for their after election parties, tending to have good quality rocks bands playing.

                            Here is Howling Laud Hope after narrowly losing to David Cameron:
                            http://www.loonyparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/600-alan-howlin-laud-hope-david-cameron-2010.png

                            All party leaders like to be photographed with the Raving Loony candidate.
                          • roy_langston
                            ... I stand corrected. I had assumed the Raving Loony Party was just a Monty Python concoction. ... Here in Canada, we had the left-leaning, farm-based
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 26, 2012
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                              --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:

                              > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Calling it the "Young People's Party" is
                              > > self-evidently idiotic. Its appeal is limited
                              > > to the demographic that is not only the poorest,
                              > > least willing, and least able to make political
                              > > donations, but least likely to vote. Duh.
                              > > Call it the Raving Loony Party and be done with it.
                              >
                              > The Raving Loony Party started in the early 1960s as the National teenage Party - a single issue party to get the vote and age of consent down from 21 to 18. They achieved that.
                              >
                              > But young people had something to latch onto. It do not see them running headlong towards LVT thinking it will make their lives better.
                              >
                              > I did like the Raving Loony Party's economic policies in the late 80s/early 90s. It was do not stop digging the Channel Tunnel, go right under France and come up in Switzerland under the bank vaults - economy solved.

                              I stand corrected. I had assumed the Raving Loony Party was just a Monty Python concoction.

                              > Calling this Young People's Party (UK) something with "geo" in it would be better. Geo equals land which equals nature which equals eco which equals all we need to survive.
                              >
                              > That has abroad appeal. They had better drop Henry George and his Single Tax and go for all things "Geo".

                              Here in Canada, we had the left-leaning, farm-based "Cooperative Commonwealth Federation" (predecessor to the current "New Democratic Party," which united the CCF with urban industrial labor unions). Our proposal is to use publicly created value to pay for public services and infrastructure instead of stealing privately created value from the productive and giving the resulting publicly created value to idle private landowners in return for nothing. "Commonwealth" obviously has specific historical baggage in the UK that likely makes it unusable, but maybe something like "The Common Values Party" gets across both the idea that we stand for values that almost everyone shares but the other parties in fact oppose -- i.e., liberty, justice, honesty, and prosperity -- and that we would use commonly created value to pay for common services and infrastructure, retaining the resulting commonly created value for common purposes and benefit instead of giving it away to rich, greedy, privileged parasites in return for nothing.

                              -- Roy Langston
                            • John
                              ... Monty Python concoction. The full title is: The official Monster Raving Loony Party. The official because there has been
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 26, 2012
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                                --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "roy_langston" <roy_langston@...> wrote:

                                > I stand corrected.  I had assumed the 
                                > Raving Loony Party was just a Monty 
                                > Python concoction.

                                The full title is: The official Monster Raving Loony Party.  The "official" because there has been imposters.
                                http://www.omrlp.com/

                                Here is their fine manifesto:
                                1. Health & Safety: We propose to ban Self Responsibilty on the grounds that it may be dangerous to your health.
                                2. M.P's Expenses: We propose that instead of a second home allowance M.P's will have a caravan which will be parked outside the Houses of Parliament. This will make it easier as flipping a caravan is easier than flipping homes
                                3. Eurofit: The European Constitution which will be sorted out by going for a long Walk. "As everyone knows that walking is good for the constitution"
                                4. The speaker in the House of Commons will be replaced by the latest audio equipment
                                5. To help the Israel/Palestinian Problem, we will get rid of the old road map, and replace it with a new sat nav instead
                                6. European Union: It is proposed that the European Union end its discrimination by creating a "Court of Human Lefts" because their present policy is one -sided.
                                7. Education: We will increase the number of Women teachers throughout the education System as we are strong believers of `Female Intuition'
                                8. Immigration and Population: I propose that we cap the population of this country. We have too many people for such a small country, so we will Cap the number of people residing here at present rates (approximately 63 million, give or take 10 mill ) on the basis of one out, one in (excluding Births). Regarding Immigration… Any Person who can prove that they or their descendants emigrated to the U.K before 55 A.D can stay. All the others will be repatriated to their original country. (Well we have to draw the line somewhere)
                                9. We will ban all forms of Greyhound racing. This will help stop the country going to the dogs.
                                10. Afghanistan, Iraq and the War on terror. Theirs nothing funny about this. however as we have not found any Taliban terrorists in Derbyshire. Our Soldiers can all come home now.
                              • walto
                                I particularly love the who have done the right thing part. W
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012
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                                  I particularly love the "who have done the right thing" part.

                                  W



                                  --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, David Reed <dbcreed@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > As Mark Wadsworth has been at pains to make clear recently,he is founder of the Young People's Party, a Land Tax front movement that put up a candidate in the Corby bye-election.By modern standards he is almost exactly dead-centre politically.
                                  > To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: burns-john@...
                                  > Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:40:28 +0000
                                  > Subject: [LandCafe] Mansion Tax
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                                  > I noticed a group of Conservative London MPs collectively wrote a letter to the London Evening Standard - last night's edition - slagging the LibDems "Mansion Tax".
                                  > It was an empty letter and they even brought out the "old Widow Bogey" as Churchill called it, saying it was "granny tax".
                                  > The Mansion Tax is attributed to Vince Cable of the LibDems in the coalition. He proposed that all properties valued at over £2m would be taxed at 1%.
                                  > In larger houses, the land values tend to be greater in proportion to the building. So this makes some sense. In a recent poll 2/3 approved of it.
                                  > I noticed Mark Wadsworth picked up on it and slagged it in his blog - he is in the Conservative Party I believe.
                                  > Mark Wadsworth - Mansion Tax
                                  >
                                  > I have pasted Mark's critique here. I am sure he doesn't mind.....
                                  > It took a dozen Tory MPs to compile a cracking summary of at least eighteen completely false and misleading claims, which they helpfully summarised in a letter to the Evening Standard (21 Nov 2012, page 57):As MPs representing London constituencies, we are very worried about the effect of a new property tax being proposed by the Liberal Democrats.(1)
                                  > Additional local property taxes would hit ordinary families (2) and pensioners(3) who have worked hard, saved carefully and paid their taxes.(4) It would include those with large mortgages(5) who are not otherwise capital-rich,(6) and professionals who live in shared houses in London.(7) Pensioners now on modest income living in their long-standing family home would be hit the hardest.(8)
                                  > The revaluation process need to impose this new tax requires inspectors to visit people's homes,(9) would take three years to complete,(10) and cost taxpayers over a quarter of a billion pounds.(11)
                                  > We believe that there are much better ways to ensure that the most well-off in society pay their fair share of tax.(12) The Lib-Dem "mansion tax" would turn out to be a "granny tax" fuelled by the politics of envy.(13) It would be another blow on top of the heavy burden of council tax which doubled under the last Labour government.(14)
                                  > It is costly, bureaucratic(15) and unfair:(16) Government ministers should resist this attack on those Londoners(17) who have worked hard all their lives and done the right thing.(18)
                                  > Bob Neill, Mike Freer, Nick De Bois, Bob Blackman, Angela Watkinson, Matthew Offord, Andrew Rosindell, Angie Bray, Zac Goldsmith, Mark Field and Mary Maclead, London Conservative MPs1) Mainly they're concerned for their own buy-at-taxpayers'-expense-to-let portfolios and their banker friends.2) Lie. Ordinary families in London do not live in homes worth more than £1 million or £2 million or whatever the cut-off point is.3) Poor Widow Bogey.4) Irrelevance. Massive windfall gains have accrued to everybody who bought a house in London over the past few decades, regardless of whether they were otherwise hard-working, careful savers or honest taxpayers.5) A few of them yes, the proposed "mansion tax" would be about as terrible as an interest rate hike of rather less than one per cent. We can reasonably expect them to have budgeted for that, and they'll still probably be paying less than they originally budgeted for if they bought more than five years ago.6) Since when does not being "capital-rich" have anything to do with it? isn't the traditional rallying cry that "Taxes on the rental value of land would hit the capital-rich, cash-poor"?7) Who by implication are tenants. The Home-Owner-Ist élite celebrates the fact that London rents are rising year on year, and the tax would be borne by the owners not the tenants anyway.8) Poor Widow Bogey again. Is it so terrible if they bank some of their million pound winnings and move elsewhere, so that a truly hard working/high earning family can move in?9) Outright lie.10) Outright lie.11) Outright lie based on actual fact. The Morbidly Obese One claimed recently that doing a full Council Tax revaluation for the whole of the country would cost about £260 million, which is less than £10 per home and is the sort of thing that ought to be done in the interests of fairness anyway, or would you rather than HMRC saves itself a few quid by insisting you continue to pay tax based on your earnings of twenty-one years ago?12) But they don't say it. Therefore lie.13) Woah! Let's say we scrapped NIC, VAT and higher rate income tax and just had flat 20% flat income tax. Would that be "politics of envy" or a "rich giveaway"? For sure, somebody earning a million quid a year would be about £400,000 a year better off, but he'd still be chipping in £200,000 a year to the general pot, i.e. forty times as much as an average earner. Why is it so terrible to expect somebody in a £2 million house to pay ten times as much Council Tax as somebody in a median value home? Why does the latter count as "politics of envy" but not a proposal for a low-rate flat income tax?14) The Council Tax is pennies, it raises less than the taxes on booze and fags. And even the "mansion tax" would be a lot, lot, lot less than what the old Domestic Rates would have been, which the Tories thoughtfully abolished in the 1980s.15) Taxes on land are neither costly to administer nor particularly bureaucratic. That £260 million potential cost of a full Council Tax revaluation is less than one per cent of annual Council Tax receipts, and collection rates are very good (which means that the honest don't end up paying for the dishonest).16) Define "fair".17) But income tax is also an "attack on Londoners" because people in London have the highest incomes. Simple fact is that a tax on land values is a tax on land values, if land values are highest in London, then so be it.18) Lie. People who are sitting on massive unearned windfall land price gains have usually done little or nothing to deserve them, it's like a lottery but more corrupt (and yes, I have also banked massive unearned windfall land price gains, which I duly declared for CGT, unlike most MPs, and it just sort of lands on your doormat, there is little skill or hard work involved).
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