Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: CAP

Expand Messages
  • roy_langston
    ... The support is to landowners, not country dwellers. ... European agriculture is typically not price competitive with imports in the absence of protections.
    Message 1 of 43 , Nov 20, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "k_r_johansen" <kjetil.r.johansen@...> wrote:

      > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@> wrote:
      > >
      > > About right. Approx 50% of the EU budget is allocated to the Common Agricultural Policy. CAP is supporting a lifestyle of a very small minority of country dwellers in a poor performing industry, agriculture. In effect that is its prime function.

      The support is to landowners, not country dwellers.

      > I disagree that agriculture is a poor performing industry.

      European agriculture is typically not price competitive with imports in the absence of protections.

      > Obviously it feeds us quite well.

      But expensively. Three of my kids toured Europe this past summer, and the prices of groceries shocked them.

      > I guess I have a bias since I come from a farming background, but the idea that farmers are not performing or progressing is false. But progress have come in spite of the CAP, not because.

      True, as CAP subsidizes the owners of inefficient as well as efficient farms.

      > It's just that farming will and always will be, extremely competitive, at least when producing straight commodities. However a small portion of the population, they are thousands of sellers competing against millions of sellers abroad. Add natural risks, and it's a pretty non-attractive business to be in compare with other jobs/investments.

      Right. Because the product is a commodity, competition eliminates profit to the producer, and the only ones making any money from it are the landowners.

      > When subsidies were enacted into full force half a century ago, it was probably good intentions, as they saw the returns to farming fall in comparison with other sectors. But the experience is that farmer incomes are still lower than other workers, and that a large portion of the subsidies are just capitalized into land rents, and tradeable quotas/subsidy rights, that would plummet in value if CAP was abolished. So it's pretty much pointless.
      > There are probably some support mechanisms that have external benefits, r&d, keeping hedgerows nice and tidy, some level of food security etc., but generally the CAP is just a subsidy to landownership.

      As with any other publicly funded or charitable benefit program, it's quite difficult to design farming supports that don't just go to landowners and other rent seekers. A UIE would help, of course, as would replacing the taxes on labor and capital with LVT, abolishing seed patents, etc.

      -- Roy Langston
    • Harry Pollard
      The point is, Scott, that the little fields of Britain cannot compete with the mass production of the US. Harry ********************** *The Alumni Group * *The
      Message 43 of 43 , Dec 1, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        The point is, Scott, that the little fields of Britain cannot compete with the mass production of the US.

        Harry

        ********************
        The Alumni Group 
        The Henry George School
        of Los Angeles
        Tujunga   CA   90243
        (818) 352-4141
        ********************



        On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Scott Bergeson <scottb@...> wrote:
         

        Quoting Harry Pollard on Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:06:15 -0800:

        ___Harry___
        if we import our bulk foods, farm land is given over to animals,
        which provide instant food while crops are being started (not
        to mention they improve fertility rather than use it up).
        -----

        Importing meat and animal feed needn't be a huge strategic
        concern, if you're willing, when besieged, to slaughter
        most of the animals (preserving the meat, of course) and
        switch to a primarily vegetarian diet.

        ___Harry___
        As you know, the combine harvesters in the US probably
        work all day in a field, then stop until next morning
        when they continue harvesting in the same field.
        -----

        Many of them have lights. Combines are a separate business
        from farming. They migrate, following the harvest.


      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.