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Re: YesM2

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  • John
    ... North Dakota is bigger than many European countries. The area is 71,000 squ miles while the UK is 94,000 squ miles. The population of ND is 690,000 (the
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 14, 2012
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      --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:
      >
      > There are these 1.5 min bites of his:
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsDF3aa_eo
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfuz9Nvs5xQ&feature=related
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGzW817Y3Q&feature=related
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1SgqOzKRU4&feature=related
      >
      > What is he doing that other have not figured out.
      > OK I worked in Saudi Arabia and paid no income tax
      > because the oil revenues were so high. I see no
      > massive oil reserves, or other resources, in ND.

      North Dakota is bigger than many European countries. The area is 71,000 squ miles while the UK is 94,000 squ miles. The population of ND is 690,000 (the size of a city) while the UK has 62 million.

      ND has the Bakken oil shale fields. Which "may" produce a million barrel per day - same as the North Sea now. But they need energy to extract the oil from the shale (nuclear?). Shale oil is poor quality and requires much refining while the standard of North Sea oil does not, nor needs much energy to extract. The controversial fracking is used in shale oil and gas extraction. OK this may be fine in a wilderness state like ND. Fracking is used in Lancashire, England, for gas and caused a minor earth tremor - some optimistically say that the field can supply all the UK with gas for 50 years, we shall see.

      So, ND may get away with no property taxes and income taxes - a mini Saudi Arabia - an oil economy. This is not representative of most other economies, so not worth the bother to look into any further.
    • Scott Bergeson
      http://yesm2.com/ Same as http://www.empowerthetaxpayer.org/main/ Quoting John on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:17:39 -0000: There are these 1.5 min bites of his [Robert
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 14, 2012
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        http://yesm2.com/
        Same as http://www.empowerthetaxpayer.org/main/

        Quoting John on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:17:39 -0000:

        There are these 1.5 min bites of his [Robert Hale's]:

        Property Taxes and Special Interests 1:06
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsDF3aa_eo

        Abolishing The Property Tax - Revenue Replacement 2:46
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfuz9Nvs5xQ

        The Problem With Property Taxes 2:10
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGzW817Y3Q
        [Embedded at overly ornate http://yesm2.com/ above.]

        Property Taxes - Local Control? 1:44
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1SgqOzKRU4

        And Scott on the Spot on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:16:15 -0000

        ___SSBaker___
        The property tax - at least the part on
        Land - is progressive, not regressive.
        -----

        Hey, don't let these brain donors' (replaced
        with scrambled ovum urinum eggs) nonsense addle
        (liquid manure appearing noble) yours, too.
        Land as "property" is nearly the whole problem
        with what purports to be "civilization" -
        actually, kleptocracy or social division.
        http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6385&t=KJV
        Quit taxing Robert Hale's tipi!

        ___SSBaker___
        This is just wrong and reminds me of revenue-gutting
        Howard Jarvis' campaign in California that has
        nearly destroyed that state, while enabling land
        hogging oil & gas companies to pay next to nothing
        on their lands. This is a disinformation campaign,
        probably backdoor financed by the big landowners who
        would prefer we didn't shine the spotlight on them.
        -----

        Or Howard Jarvis' heirs. A Steven Lawrence of San Jose runs the Website.

        People do not argue with the teachings of Henry
        George; they simply do not know it. He who
        becomes acquainted with it, cannot but agree.
        -Count Leo Tolstoy
      • John
        ... It is in the Anglo-Saxon psyche that you own land 100% - and its is 100% your and and all the resources on it are yours - elements taken up by Rothbard.
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 15, 2012
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          --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Scott Bergeson <scottb@...> wrote:

          > ___SSBaker___
          > The property tax - at least the part on
          > Land - is progressive, not regressive.
          > -----

          > Land as "property" is nearly the whole problem
          > with what purports to be "civilization" -
          > actually, kleptocracy or social division.

          It is in the Anglo-Saxon psyche that you own land 100% - and its is 100% your and and all the resources on it are yours - elements taken up by Rothbard.

          The right wing USAians want no taxes on anything - who pays for community services I don't know - and then the thought that they are only custodians of the land sends their heads in a spin. They are against taxing of their land in any way shape or form.

          The value of the land, which was created by the community, they see are theirs to appropriate at will. Reclaiming that community created value to them is someone stealing from them and "taxing" their own mini country, their land. All self-centeredness and greed.

          In ND. If the shale oil does bring in enough revenue to eliminate property and other state taxes - including taxation of land and its values, then land prices will rise like crazy. The lack of taxes will expand the economy and demand for land will increase, meaning the speculators will move in and many will hoard land. This occurred in Saudi Arabia in the 1970s.

          There has to be a mechanism to prevent harmful speculation in land and its resources. LVT does that in the medium to short term. The expanding economy may increase and value as land will be in demand - as occurred in Denmark in the late 1950s. That took them by surprise. Eventually the economy will overtake land and in effect land will drop in price relating to the greater economy.
        • Scott on the Spot
          None of these videos has over 500 views, most under 200. I left the following comment on all of them, and it s not worth my time to do more: Tax the land, not
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 15, 2012
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            None of these videos has over 500 views, most under 200. I left the
            following comment on all of them, and it's not worth my time to do more:
            Tax the land, not the buildings on it. That would discourage speculation
            on the former, high land prices, land monopoly, and encourage building
            on the Land.
            This guy is ridiculous. Everyone would crowd into the most desirable
            land with no property tax. Prices would skyrocket even more than they
            already have (as the tax goes up, the land cost goes down). Look up
            Geoism/Georgism. This was figured out 132 years ago, in "Progress and
            Poverty" one of the best-selling economics books of all time.

            This is a Howard Jarvis type campaign, designed to obfuscate and delude
            the public, while giving the oil and gas industry a forever free pass on
            paying land taxes, and pretending it is the evil government that is
            gobbling up land (really? Are those government oil&gas wells all over
            North Dakota? Didn't think so...). The NG industry knows the price of
            NG has plunged, and they want to protect their holdings while they sit
            back and wait for the price of NG to go back up, before drilling again.
            This is the worst kind of deception.

            If you want to see what real Youtube traffic looks like, check out
            anything done by Jenna Marbles, nearly all over 10 million views. Oy
            vey....

            Oh, and can we stop with the brain-name calling?
            --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Scott Bergeson <scottb@...> wrote:
            >
            > http://yesm2.com/
            > Same as http://www.empowerthetaxpayer.org/main/
            >
            > Quoting John on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:17:39 -0000:
            >
            > There are these 1.5 min bites of his [Robert Hale's]:
            >
            > Property Taxes and Special Interests 1:06
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsDF3aa_eo
            >
            > Abolishing The Property Tax - Revenue Replacement 2:46
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfuz9Nvs5xQ
            >
            > The Problem With Property Taxes 2:10
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGzW817Y3Q
            > [Embedded at overly ornate http://yesm2.com/ above.]
            >
            > Property Taxes - Local Control? 1:44
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1SgqOzKRU4
            >
            > And Scott on the Spot on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:16:15 -0000
            >
            > ___SSBaker___
            > The property tax - at least the part on
            > Land - is progressive, not regressive.
            > -----
            >
            > Hey, don't let these brain donors' (replaced
            > with scrambled ovum urinum eggs) nonsense addle
            > (liquid manure appearing noble) yours, too.
            > Land as "property" is nearly the whole problem
            > with what purports to be "civilization" -
            > actually, kleptocracy or social division.
            >
            http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6385&t=\
            KJV
            > Quit taxing Robert Hale's tipi!
            >
            > ___SSBaker___
            > This is just wrong and reminds me of revenue-gutting
            > Howard Jarvis' campaign in California that has
            > nearly destroyed that state, while enabling land
            > hogging oil & gas companies to pay next to nothing
            > on their lands. This is a disinformation campaign,
            > probably backdoor financed by the big landowners who
            > would prefer we didn't shine the spotlight on them.
            > -----
            >
            > Or Howard Jarvis' heirs. A Steven Lawrence of San Jose runs the
            Website.
            >
            > People do not argue with the teachings of Henry
            > George; they simply do not know it. He who
            > becomes acquainted with it, cannot but agree.
            > -Count Leo Tolstoy
            >
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