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FW: US ENGINEERING VS ... ALL THE OTHER GUYS

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  • Edward Dodson
    _____ Their Levees vs. Our Levees Here s how the British hold back the waters from flooding London: And the Dutch solution to protecting an entire nation
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 2, 2006
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      Message

       

       


       


       

      Their  Levees vs.  Our Levees

       

      Here's  how the British hold back the waters from flooding London :  
       


       
       

      And  the Dutch solution to protecting an entire nation that mostly rests below  sea level: 
       


       
       

      The  Italians are defending their city on the sea, Venice :

        

      Giant platforms on hinges raise up to break the waves when they get too high 

       

       

      And  the richest, most powerful and technologically advanced nation on  earth... USA !!!!!! 
       

       

      Go  Corps of Engineers!!!!  

      Hey,  it takes a lot of money to keep corrupt politicians  in office....  

         

       

       

       

    • snswalton
      Sorry, but I do not think this is funny! As I type this my younger brother, David, is in New Orleans building a dam for the US Corp of Engineers. He s a
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 4, 2006
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        Sorry, but I do not think this is funny!
        As I type this my younger brother, David, is in New Orleans building a dam for the US Corp of Engineers.  He's a senior engineer for Kewit.
        The project must be done by 6/1/06.  He does not get to go home to Fort Worth until it's done.  So he & his new bride and their dog Max have moved into a trailer at the job site.  David says the US Corp of Engineers is very bright group of engineers.  The current team on duty includes people from Pittsburgh & Johnstown, PA.

        The Corp of Engineers did not mess things up-the politicans did!

        Respectfully,

        Sue Walton
        proud sister of David Sydney Hoag-Civil Engineer
        proud daughter of Norman Francis Hoag-Civil Engineer 1921-1971
        proud granddaughter of Sydney Kent Johnson-Civil Engineer 1891-1960

        At 05:35 PM 3/2/2006, Edward Dodson wrote:
         
         

         

         
        Their  Levees vs.  Our Levees
         
        Here's  how the British hold back the waters from flooding London:
         
        []

         
         
        And  the Dutch solution to protecting an entire nation that mostly rests below  sea level:
         
        []

         
         
        The  Italians are defending their city on the sea, Venice:
        []   []
        Giant platforms on hinges raise up to break the waves when they get too high 
         
         
        And  the richest, most powerful and technologically advanced nation on  earth...USA!!!!!!
         
         
        Go  Corps of Engineers!!!!  
        []
        Hey,  it takes a lot of money to keep corrupt politicians  in office....  
          
         

         
         


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      • Edward Dodson
        Ed responding... Sue, you wrote: Sorry, but I do not think this is funny! As I type this my younger brother, David, is in New Orleans building a dam for the US
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 4, 2006
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          Ed responding...
          Sue, you wrote:

          Sorry, but I do not think this is funny!
          As I type this my younger brother, David, is in New Orleans building a dam
          for the US Corp of Engineers. He's a senior engineer for Kewit.
          The project must be done by 6/1/06. He does not get to go home to Fort
          Worth until it's done. So he & his new bride and their dog Max have moved
          into a trailer at the job site. David says the US Corp of Engineers is very
          bright group of engineers. The current team on duty includes people from
          Pittsburgh & Johnstown, PA.

          The Corp of Engineers did not mess things up-the politicans did!

          Ed here:
          Sue, as often happens, there are very dedicated people trying to accomplish
          good things under very difficult circumstances. And, as has most likely been
          the case, the scientists and engineers have been warning of the almost
          certain disaster waiting to happen because bad politics resulted in bad
          decisions.

          The other day I heard a scientist interviewed regarding the Mississippi
          delta. He indicated that human interference has prevented the natural
          processes of flooding to deposit sediment and build up the land. His opinion
          was that to offset the ongoing sinking of the land further and further below
          sea level would require the largest building project ever undertaken.

          So, Sue, while these cartoons both amuse and upset at the same time, they do
          indicate that in the U.S. there is a serious problem (primarily political,
          as you say) of burying our heads in shifting sand. That is what these types
          of cartoons do; they make us look for the causes. Even now, the plan is to
          spend billions of dollars to correct problems only to the extent of
          sustaining a level 3 hurricane. Would I return to Louisiana if I had any
          other choice? Not likely.

          Perhaps the most appropriate public policy decision where New Orleans and
          similarly situated cities and towns are concerned is to remove to higher
          ground now rather than later. In the long run, this may be the only policy
          decision that makes sense for the long term.
        • Paul Metz
          Paul Metz adds: As a Dutchman - usually proud to be - I must confess that the picture of one of the many nice protective works on our coast has a backside.
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 9, 2006
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            Paul Metz adds:
             
            As a Dutchman - usually proud to be - I must confess that the picture of one of the many nice protective works on our coast has a backside.
            Recently a report unveiled that a major control system to close half-open dams in case of heavy weather has serious failures. This risk was kept secret for years and is still without any foreseeable repair. This flaw increases the flood risk for more than a million citizens living behind dikes and below sealevel by a factor 100.
             
            A LVT offers a fair financing mechanism to develop and manage land also in this respect of security. Engineers are just good soldiers, doing their jobs usually well - and always potential victims of bad governance and politics, which we in the Landcafe aim to combat. The cartoons indeed blame the "leaders" not the soldiers, Sue.
             
            The perspective makes our effort urgent: it takes much time to convince majorities in many parliaments and then implement better land management. The predicted sea level rise by up to 7 meter this century will eliminate many cities and large areas of economically used land along the coasts of all continents .... and that is just one of the many damaging impacts of our addiction to oil (now admitted by the president of the USA) - and also to coal and natural gas. However, some are much more addicted than many others, and good governance should and can take that into account by a.o. fair taxation, which makes the polluter/user pay and the citizen benefit.
             
            Therefore, my second addition is that we should update Henry George's definition of "land" and extend it to "nature" or "the planet", i.e. land + all natural and environmental resources. To be clear: burning fossils reduces the availability of land, so landholders are planetary stakeholders. And LVT-promoters should modernise themselves to promoters of the full range of social-ecological tax reform.

            Ed responding...
            Sue, you wrote:

            Sorry, but I do not think this is funny!
            As I type this my younger brother, David, is in New Orleans building a dam
            for the US Corp of Engineers.  He's a senior engineer for Kewit.
            The project must be done by 6/1/06.  He does not get to go home to Fort
            Worth until it's done.  So he & his new bride and their dog Max have moved
            into a trailer at the job site.  David says the US Corp of Engineers is very
            bright group of engineers.  The current team on duty includes people from
            Pittsburgh & Johnstown, PA.

            The Corp of Engineers did not mess things up-the politicans did!

            Ed here:
            Sue, as often happens, there are very dedicated people trying to accomplish
            good things under very difficult circumstances. And, as has most likely been
            the case, the scientists and engineers have been warning of the almost
            certain disaster waiting to happen because bad politics resulted in bad
            decisions.

            The other day I heard a scientist interviewed regarding the Mississippi
            delta. He indicated that human interference has prevented the natural
            processes of flooding to deposit sediment and build up the land. His opinion
            was that to offset the ongoing sinking of the land further and further below
            sea level would require the largest building project ever undertaken.

            So, Sue, while these cartoons both amuse and upset at the same time, they do
            indicate that in the U.S. there is a serious problem (primarily political,
            as you say) of burying our heads in shifting sand. That is what these types
            of cartoons do; they make us look for the causes. Even now, the plan is to
            spend billions of dollars to correct problems only to the extent of
            sustaining a level 3 hurricane. Would I return to Louisiana if I had any
            other choice? Not likely.

            Perhaps the most appropriate public policy decision where New Orleans and
            similarly situated cities and towns are concerned is to remove to higher
            ground now rather than later. In the long run, this may be the only policy
            decision that makes sense for the long term.






          • Wetzel Dave
            Therefore, my second addition is that we should update Henry George s definition of land and extend it to nature or the planet , i.e. land + all natural
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 9, 2006
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              Therefore, my second addition is that we should update Henry George's
              definition of "land" and extend it to "nature" or "the planet", i.e. land +
              all natural and environmental resources. To be clear: burning fossils
              reduces the availability of land, so landholders are planetary stakeholders.
              And LVT-promoters should modernise themselves to promoters of the full range
              of social-ecological tax reform.

              nb

              Henry George's definition of "LAND"

              The term land necessarily includes, not merely the surface of the earth as
              distinguished from water and the air, but the whole material universe
              outside of man himself, for it is only by having access to land, from which
              is very body is drawn, that man can come in contact with or use nature. The
              term land embraces, in short, all natural materials, forces, and
              opportunities" (
              <http://www.schalkenbach.org/library/george.henry/ppcont.html> Progress and
              Poverty, p. 38).

              Dave

              Dave Wetzel
              Vice-chair, Transport for London

              [] -----Original Message-----
              From: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LandCafe@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
              Paul Metz
              Sent: 09 March 2006 11:27
              To: 'Edward Dodson'; 'snswalton'; 'Land-Cafe-Group'
              Subject: [LandCafe] US ENGINEERING VS ... ALL THE OTHER GUYS




              Paul Metz adds:

              As a Dutchman - usually proud to be - I must confess that the picture of one
              of the many nice protective works on our coast has a backside.
              Recently a report unveiled that a major control system to close half-open
              dams in case of heavy weather has serious failures. This risk was kept
              secret for years and is still without any foreseeable repair. This flaw
              increases the flood risk for more than a million citizens living behind
              dikes and below sealevel by a factor 100.

              A LVT offers a fair financing mechanism to develop and manage land also in
              this respect of security. Engineers are just good soldiers, doing their jobs
              usually well - and always potential victims of bad governance and politics,
              which we in the Landcafe aim to combat. The cartoons indeed blame the
              "leaders" not the soldiers, Sue.

              The perspective makes our effort urgent: it takes much time to convince
              majorities in many parliaments and then implement better land management.
              The predicted sea level rise by up to 7 meter this century will eliminate
              many cities and large areas of economically used land along the coasts of
              all continents .... and that is just one of the many damaging impacts of our
              addiction to oil (now admitted by the president of the USA) - and also to
              coal and natural gas. However, some are much more addicted than many others,
              and good governance should and can take that into account by a.o. fair
              taxation, which makes the polluter/user pay and the citizen benefit.

              Therefore, my second addition is that we should update Henry George's
              definition of "land" and extend it to "nature" or "the planet", i.e. land +
              all natural and environmental resources. To be clear: burning fossils
              reduces the availability of land, so landholders are planetary stakeholders.
              And LVT-promoters should modernise themselves to promoters of the full range
              of social-ecological tax reform.

              Ed responding...
              Sue, you wrote:

              Sorry, but I do not think this is funny!
              As I type this my younger brother, David, is in New Orleans building a dam
              for the US Corp of Engineers. He's a senior engineer for Kewit.
              The project must be done by 6/1/06. He does not get to go home to Fort
              Worth until it's done. So he & his new bride and their dog Max have moved
              into a trailer at the job site. David says the US Corp of Engineers is very
              bright group of engineers. The current team on duty includes people from
              Pittsburgh & Johnstown, PA.

              The Corp of Engineers did not mess things up-the politicans did!

              Ed here:
              Sue, as often happens, there are very dedicated people trying to accomplish
              good things under very difficult circumstances. And, as has most likely been
              the case, the scientists and engineers have been warning of the almost
              certain disaster waiting to happen because bad politics resulted in bad
              decisions.

              The other day I heard a scientist interviewed regarding the Mississippi
              delta. He indicated that human interference has prevented the natural
              processes of flooding to deposit sediment and build up the land. His opinion
              was that to offset the ongoing sinking of the land further and further below
              sea level would require the largest building project ever undertaken.

              So, Sue, while these cartoons both amuse and upset at the same time, they do
              indicate that in the U.S. there is a serious problem (primarily political,
              as you say) of burying our heads in shifting sand. That is what these types
              of cartoons do; they make us look for the causes. Even now, the plan is to
              spend billions of dollars to correct problems only to the extent of
              sustaining a level 3 hurricane. Would I return to Louisiana if I had any
              other choice? Not likely.

              Perhaps the most appropriate public policy decision where New Orleans and
              similarly situated cities and towns are concerned is to remove to higher
              ground now rather than later. In the long run, this may be the only policy
              decision that makes sense for the long term.








              Check in here via the homepage at http://landcafe.org <http://landcafe.org>

              To post message to group: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
              & please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
              (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)




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            • Paul Metz
              Dave, thanks. Of course Henry George was right. My remarks and suggestion are trying to remind the practitioners who still believe that LVT makes carbon and
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 13, 2006
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                Dave, thanks. Of course Henry George was right. My remarks and suggestion are trying to remind
                the practitioners who still believe that LVT makes carbon and other pollution and natural resource
                use taxes, like oil and mineral mining royalties and fishing and other hunting charges redundant.
                 
                The Polluter and ultimately the User Pays Principle - agreed in the OECD in 1974 and perhaps later
                also at UN level - is in fact an application of the same logic. The OECD and UN failed to recognise the
                economic human right to an equal share of these revenues for the shareholders of Earth, all citizens.
                 
                It would be interesting to have also some quotes from Henry George that go beyond LVT for financing
                the state, public services and communities to real social justice by paying a dividend to the citizens.
                 
                Paul Metz

                Therefore, my second addition is that we should update Henry George's
                definition of "land" and extend it to "nature" or "the planet", i.e. land +
                all natural and environmental resources. To be clear: burning fossils
                reduces the availability of land, so landholders are planetary stakeholders.
                And LVT-promoters should modernise themselves to promoters of the full range
                of social-ecological tax reform.

                nb

                Henry George's definition of "LAND"

                The term land necessarily includes, not merely the surface of the earth as
                distinguished from water and the air, but the whole material universe
                outside of man himself, for it is only by having access to land, from which
                is very body is drawn, that man can come in contact with or use nature. The
                term land embraces, in short, all natural materials, forces, and
                opportunities" (
                <http://www.schalkenbach.org/library/george.henry/ppcont.html> Progress and
                Poverty, p. 38).

                Dave

                Dave Wetzel
                Vice-chair, Transport for London  
                 
                 

                []  -----Original Message-----
                From: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LandCafe@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                Paul Metz
                Sent: 09 March 2006 11:27
                To: 'Edward Dodson'; 'snswalton'; 'Land-Cafe-Group'
                Subject: [LandCafe] US ENGINEERING VS ... ALL THE OTHER GUYS




                Paul Metz adds:

                As a Dutchman - usually proud to be - I must confess that the picture of one
                of the many nice protective works on our coast has a backside.
                Recently a report unveiled that a major control system to close half-open
                dams in case of heavy weather has serious failures. This risk was kept
                secret for years and is still without any foreseeable repair. This flaw
                increases the flood risk for more than a million citizens living behind
                dikes and below sealevel by a factor 100.

                A LVT offers a fair financing mechanism to develop and manage land also in
                this respect of security. Engineers are just good soldiers, doing their jobs
                usually well - and always potential victims of bad governance and politics,
                which we in the Landcafe aim to combat. The cartoons indeed blame the
                "leaders" not the soldiers, Sue.

                The perspective makes our effort urgent: it takes much time to convince
                majorities in many parliaments and then implement better land management.
                The predicted sea level rise by up to 7 meter this century will eliminate
                many cities and large areas of economically used land along the coasts of
                all continents .... and that is just one of the many damaging impacts of our
                addiction to oil (now admitted by the president of the USA) - and also to
                coal and natural gas. However, some are much more addicted than many others,
                and good governance should and can take that into account by a.o. fair
                taxation, which makes the polluter/user pay and the citizen benefit.

                Therefore, my second addition is that we should update Henry George's
                definition of "land" and extend it to "nature" or "the planet", i.e. land +
                all natural and environmental resources. To be clear: burning fossils
                reduces the availability of land, so landholders are planetary stakeholders.
                And LVT-promoters should modernise themselves to promoters of the full range
                of social-ecological tax reform.

                Ed responding...
                Sue, you wrote:

                Sorry, but I do not think this is funny!
                As I type this my younger brother, David, is in New Orleans building a dam
                for the US Corp of Engineers.  He's a senior engineer for Kewit.
                The project must be done by 6/1/06.  He does not get to go home to Fort
                Worth until it's done.  So he & his new bride and their dog Max have moved
                into a trailer at the job site.  David says the US Corp of Engineers is very
                bright group of engineers.  The current team on duty includes people from
                Pittsburgh & Johnstown, PA.

                The Corp of Engineers did not mess things up-the politicans did!

                Ed here:
                Sue, as often happens, there are very dedicated people trying to accomplish
                good things under very difficult circumstances. And, as has most likely been
                the case, the scientists and engineers have been warning of the almost
                certain disaster waiting to happen because bad politics resulted in bad
                decisions.

                The other day I heard a scientist interviewed regarding the Mississippi
                delta. He indicated that human interference has prevented the natural
                processes of flooding to deposit sediment and build up the land. His opinion
                was that to offset the ongoing sinking of the land further and further below
                sea level would require the largest building project ever undertaken.

                So, Sue, while these cartoons both amuse and upset at the same time, they do
                indicate that in the U.S. there is a serious problem (primarily political,
                as you say) of burying our heads in shifting sand. That is what these types
                of cartoons do; they make us look for the causes. Even now, the plan is to
                spend billions of dollars to correct problems only to the extent of
                sustaining a level 3 hurricane. Would I return to Louisiana if I had any
                other choice? Not likely.

                Perhaps the most appropriate public policy decision where New Orleans and
                similarly situated cities and towns are concerned is to remove to higher
                ground now rather than later. In the long run, this may be the only policy
                decision that makes sense for the long term.








                Check in here via the homepage at http://landcafe.org <http://landcafe.org>

                To post message to group: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
                & please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
                (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)




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