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Re: Reflections to start out the Roman New Year

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  • gywdion
    Greetings All, May this coming New Year provide blessings to you and your families. ... Most of the Gardnerians I know, including myself, acknowledge the fact
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 1, 2013
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      Greetings All,

      May this coming New Year provide blessings to you and your families.
      Please see my comments below concerning this post:

      --- In LancasterPaganCommunity@yahoogroups.com, "Crick" <Crickjump@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hey Folks: As most of us are aware, though Neo Paganism began in the mid 1950's when Gardner cobbled together a bit of this and that to form his concept of paganism, it did not really become noticeable on a societal level until the advent of the Internet. (YES, there was a life before the Internet).

      Most of the Gardnerians I know, including myself, acknowledge the fact that Gardner may have in fact added to a simple BOS which he received from various systems such as Free Masonry, the Rosicrucian Order, AMORC and other sources. This realization does not take away the fact that it is a growing, organic system onto itself that provides a working body of knowledge and initiatory lineage (which no one can completely judge or understand unless they have been initiated). Gardner never stated it was a path that was divinely inspired or a book (Book of Shadows) of dogma to be adhered to blindly. Even those paths that are considered old school have more than likely changed over time, to better reflect the practitioners current time and place within society and through guidance of the Gnostic stream within the path itself. I know this is usually the case through direct experience, as I am also a fellow Pellar of an extended Kord out of Cornwall, who's practices are known to be much older than Gardner's works.

      >
      > And so I have to wonder, is Neo paganism beginning to fade away as so many other fads (for lack of a better word) before it; has?

      No, I don't believe Neo-Paganism is fading at all, although I am seeing a trend towards a desire to learn more about the older core craft practices.

      >
      > Many of the groups that sprang up in the eighties and nineties are now gone or have become dysfunctional.

      Although there are always groups that are becoming dysfunctional partially due to poor leadership and petty disagreements, there also good solid working groups that work quietly behind the scenes with their Egregore.

      >
      > Nearly all of the faux claims about one being a master of this or that and about ones pseudo lineage have all but evaporated. At one time this was daily verbiage on the Internet. In addition, many of the yahoo chat groups have fallen silent.
      >
      > Getting more than three people who call themselves Neo Pagan, together at a gathering takes an act of congress; of which congress as we all know is now one of the most inept institutions in the world today.
      >

      I agree. Many like the idea of playing pagan/witch, but not so much the work that goes with it.

      > And so; what if any, is the future of the Neo Pagan movement?
      >

      I think it will continue to grow, transform and flow as long as there is an interest in other forms of spirituality other than the monotheistic belief systems.

      > Has it had any noticeable impact on society and/or will it have?
      >
      > Has the blatant determination of the Neo Pagan movement to ignore the reality that there are and have always been pagan oriented folks in this world served as a detrimental blow to Neo Paganism?
      >

      I am not sure if I have met to many people that have not believed in older pagan practices. To deny this fact would be to deny the science of anthropology. No practitioners, that I know of, take precious time to deny these facts (but, I know there are so called trolls on the internet, that like to stir up trouble).

      > Should Neo Pagans set an example of responsibility in a society where self-absorbency and apathy are the societal norms? I ask this because being a student of the mystical arts should involve a higher sense of personal responsibility.
      >
      > Is the will power to do so even present in the Neo Pagan community?
      >

      Maybe we should look at individuals instead of groups. To judge the Neo-Pagan community is like the a Catholic judging a Baptist. I don't see where this helps anyone. People are going to practice how they want to practice - no matter what. If someone is hurting others or themselves due to their mystical practices - that is one thing. But, if one is learning to see outside of the Monotheistic box through neo-paganism then why should they be judged? Pagan's come in many different sizes and flavors and paganism is not a one-size-fits-all paradigm. The church has judged us and continues to do so at our expense. If we do the same to our fellow pagans, are we any better than those that oppressed us?

      > And lastly, has the tenets of Neo Paganism been a bit too altruistic in defining itself as a community?
      >
      > Please keep in mind that these questions do not necessarily reflect my personal views. As an intellectual and as one who has walked the pagan path for a few years or so, I profer these questions, solely as topic starters and to hear your thoughts. And quite frankly, to get folks once more engaged in their own destiny.
      >
      > Remember: every gathering is the sum of its members, and as such we are all responsible (yes folks used to take responsibility, shudder) for whatever concept of society that we engage in. So please share your thoughts in regards to the bigger picture we call life…
      >
      >

      Blessings - Yntra an Korn!

      Gwydion

      > Have a prosperous Roman New Year
      >
      >
      > Crick
      >
    • Nikki
      Greetings all! Yes, I am back after a long year of illness. Older, yes, and perhaps a tad wiser. It s a joy to be here again. As the good FR VON mentioned,
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 2, 2013
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        Greetings all!
         
        Yes, I am back after a long year of illness. Older, yes, and perhaps a tad wiser. It's a joy to be here again.
         
        As the good FR VON mentioned, there's a comfort, a comfort that I see as stemming from the mainstreaming of neo-paganism. One could fool oneself into believing s/he had achieved a path, thinking that alone was a static achievement.
         
        Some of us discover that ain't so.  A few dare to seek beyond complacency, seeking perhaps to understand, to touch what we can only glimpse a very small part of, to harness the energies we discover within and without.
        For my part, I know the surface of "it" is only a tease. I need to seek my way into the jewel.
         
        OT:   Many, many thanks, Crick, for the Library link.  You've given us a mighty gift.
         
        Stay warm,
         
        Seasons
         

        Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 11:30 AM
        Subject: Re: [LancasterPaganCommunity] Reflections to start out the Roman New Year

         

        Greeting Brother:

        In short, I think the Neo Pagan/New Age movement did a lot to increase awareness among the general population that there is an alternative way (versus traditional belief systems) to view the universe and one's connection to deity.  In my opinion, it was a comfortable way of introducing concepts which otherwise would have been seen as taboo. As with most organized systems, the rituals, dogma etc are provided to help the initiate develop a strong foundation of knowledge and skill.  At some point, however, one needs progress beyond the intro materials and to develop more advanced skills.  For some reason, it doesn't appear that this is happening.  Perhaps the packaging of the basic knowledge was so comfortable that people never felt a desire to advance. Another reason for the lack of advancement could be the "degree" system. I've never been a fan of titles or degrees as it gives the initiate the false impression that they are nearing the end of a journey.  My wife and I recently completed the Wiccan Third Degree -- for no reason other than the fact that it was something that we wanted to do. They were good people but I had to laugh silently to myself when I was told that I could now start a coven of my own. Not to sound egotistical but I was probably the most advanced practitioner in the room and have performed rituals that they have never heard of. My point being that if I were a relatively new convert to Neo Paganism I would be feeling really good about my achievement and not focused on advancement. The expectation was never made for me to advance beyond the wiccan dogma - only to start a new coven and spread the wiccan dogma.  People need to realize that life is a continuous journey where rigid dogma gets thrown out of the window. Life is a beautiful journey - learn as much as you can from as many belief systems as you can - always refine and advance the practice of your Craft - and live it to the fullest! 

        VON


        From: Crick <Crickjump@...>
        To: LancasterPaganCommunity@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, December 29, 2012 10:36:16 AM
        Subject: [LancasterPaganCommunity] Reflections to start out the Roman New Year

         

        Hey Folks: As most of us are aware, though Neo Paganism began in the mid 1950's when Gardner cobbled together a bit of this and that to form his concept of paganism, it did not really become noticeable on a societal level until the advent of the Internet. (YES, there was a life before the Internet).

        And so I have to wonder, is Neo paganism beginning to fade away as so many other fads (for lack of a better word) before it; has?

        Many of the groups that sprang up in the eighties and nineties are now gone or have become dysfunctional.

        Nearly all of the faux claims about one being a master of this or that and about ones pseudo lineage have all but evaporated. At one time this was daily verbiage on the Internet. In addition, many of the yahoo chat groups have fallen silent.

        Getting more than three people who call themselves Neo Pagan, together at a gathering takes an act of congress; of which congress as we all know is now one of the most inept institutions in the world today.

        And so; what if any, is the future of the Neo Pagan movement?

        Has it had any noticeable impact on society and/or will it have?

        Has the blatant determination of the Neo Pagan movement to ignore the reality that there are and have always been pagan oriented folks in this world served as a detrimental blow to Neo Paganism?

        Should Neo Pagans set an example of responsibility in a society where self-absorbency and apathy are the societal norms? I ask this because being a student of the mystical arts should involve a higher sense of personal responsibility.

        Is the will power to do so even present in the Neo Pagan community?

        And lastly, has the tenets of Neo Paganism been a bit too altruistic in defining itself as a community?

        Please keep in mind that these questions do not necessarily reflect my personal views. As an intellectual and as one who has walked the pagan path for a few years or so, I profer these questions, solely as topic starters and to hear your thoughts. And quite frankly, to get folks once more engaged in their own destiny.

        Remember: every gathering is the sum of its members, and as such we are all responsible (yes folks used to take responsibility, shudder) for whatever concept of society that we engage in. So please share your thoughts in regards to the bigger picture we call life…

        Have a prosperous Roman New Year


        Crick

        No virus found in this message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5997 - Release Date: 12/30/12

      • Shawnee Frasca
        Omg Seasons, I am so happy to see you post and hear your health has improved. You have been in my thoughts and heart many times. Love, light, & laughter
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 2, 2013
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          Omg Seasons,

          I am so happy to see you post and hear your health has improved.  You have been in my thoughts and heart many times.

          Love, light, & laughter
          Shawnee
          Emerald FaeryHawk

          -----Original Message-----

          From: Nikki
          Sent: 2 Jan 2013 15:41:24 GMT
          To: LancasterPaganCommunity@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [LancasterPaganCommunity] Reflections to start out the Roman New Year



          Greetings all!
           
          Yes, I am back after a long year of illness. Older, yes, and perhaps a tad wiser. It's a joy to be here again.
           
          As the good FR VON mentioned, there's a comfort, a comfort that I see as stemming from the mainstreaming of neo-paganism. One could fool oneself into believing s/he had achieved a path, thinking that alone was a static achievement.
           
          Some of us discover that ain't so.  A few dare to seek beyond complacency, seeking perhaps to understand, to touch what we can only glimpse a very small part of, to harness the energies we discover within and without.
          For my part, I know the surface of "it" is only a tease. I need to seek my way into the jewel.
           
          OT:   Many, many thanks, Crick, for the Library link.  You've given us a mighty gift.
           
          Stay warm,
           
          Seasons
           

          Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 11:30 AM
          Subject: Re: [LancasterPaganCommunity] Reflections to start out the Roman New Year

           

          Greeting Brother:

          In short, I think the Neo Pagan/New Age movement did a lot to increase awareness among the general population that there is an alternative way (versus traditional belief systems) to view the universe and one's connection to deity.  In my opinion, it was a comfortable way of introducing concepts which otherwise would have been seen as taboo. As with most organized systems, the rituals, dogma etc are provided to help the initiate develop a strong foundation of knowledge and skill.  At some point, however, one needs progress beyond the intro materials and to develop more advanced skills.  For some reason, it doesn't appear that this is happening.  Perhaps the packaging of the basic knowledge was so comfortable that people never felt a desire to advance. Another reason for the lack of advancement could be the "degree" system. I've never been a fan of titles or degrees as it gives the initiate the false impression that they are nearing the end of a journey.  My wife and I recently completed the Wiccan Third Degree -- for no reason other than the fact that it was something that we wanted to do. They were good people but I had to laugh silently to myself when I was told that I could now start a coven of my own. Not to sound egotistical but I was probably the most advanced practitioner in the room and have performed rituals that they have never heard of. My point being that if I were a relatively new convert to Neo Paganism I would be feeling really good about my achievement and not focused on advancement. The expectation was never made for me to advance beyond the wiccan dogma - only to start a new coven and spread the wiccan dogma.  People need to realize that life is a continuous journey where rigid dogma gets thrown out of the window. Life is a beautiful journey - learn as much as you can from as many belief systems as you can - always refine and advance the practice of your Craft - and live it to the fullest! 

          VON


          From: Crick <Crickjump@...>
          To: LancasterPaganCommunity@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, December 29, 2012 10:36:16 AM
          Subject: [LancasterPaganCommunity] Reflections to start out the Roman New Year

           

          Hey Folks: As most of us are aware, though Neo Paganism began in the mid 1950's when Gardner cobbled together a bit of this and that to form his concept of paganism, it did not really become noticeable on a societal level until the advent of the Internet. (YES, there was a life before the Internet).

          And so I have to wonder, is Neo paganism beginning to fade away as so many other fads (for lack of a better word) before it; has?

          Many of the groups that sprang up in the eighties and nineties are now gone or have become dysfunctional.

          Nearly all of the faux claims about one being a master of this or that and about ones pseudo lineage have all but evaporated. At one time this was daily verbiage on the Internet. In addition, many of the yahoo chat groups have fallen silent.

          Getting more than three people who call themselves Neo Pagan, together at a gathering takes an act of congress; of which congress as we all know is now one of the most inept institutions in the world today.

          And so; what if any, is the future of the Neo Pagan movement?

          Has it had any noticeable impact on society and/or will it have?

          Has the blatant determination of the Neo Pagan movement to ignore the reality that there are and have always been pagan oriented folks in this world served as a detrimental blow to Neo Paganism?

          Should Neo Pagans set an example of responsibility in a society where self-absorbency and apathy are the societal norms? I ask this because being a student of the mystical arts should involve a higher sense of personal responsibility.

          Is the will power to do so even present in the Neo Pagan community?

          And lastly, has the tenets of Neo Paganism been a bit too altruistic in defining itself as a community?

          Please keep in mind that these questions do not necessarily reflect my personal views. As an intellectual and as one who has walked the pagan path for a few years or so, I profer these questions, solely as topic starters and to hear your thoughts. And quite frankly, to get folks once more engaged in their own destiny.

          Remember: every gathering is the sum of its members, and as such we are all responsible (yes folks used to take responsibility, shudder) for whatever concept of society that we engage in. So please share your thoughts in regards to the bigger picture we call life…

          Have a prosperous Roman New Year


          Crick

          No virus found in this message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5997 - Release Date: 12/30/12



        • spiritseekingtruth
          Should Neo Pagans set an example of responsibility in a society where self-absorbency and apathy are the societal norms? This is quite a question. The
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 2, 2013
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            "Should Neo Pagans set an example of responsibility in a society where
            self-absorbency and apathy are the societal norms?"

            This is quite a question. The simple answer is yes but then every group should be willing to step up and set an example. The problem is that every group, including neo pagans, are part of that society of self-absorbency and apathy, and its easier to go with the flow than to move beyond the accepted norm. And then of course there are the problems caused when one group or another does try to set themselves apart and make things better because their view narrows and all that they don't agree with becomes evil and should be wiped out. The Roman Catholic Church is a fine example of this.

            Change will come for good or bad. Some will try to make a difference while others will continue to contribute to the stagnation and then still more will sit in the middle, hope for the best, and miss the wonders that life holds.
          • ethne goath
            Gwydion, Very well said and that is why I enoyed the chats with coffee:) Ethne
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 2, 2013
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              Gwydion,
               
              Very well said and that is why I enoyed the chats with coffee:)
               
              Ethne
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