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RE: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Cedars Road Junction

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  • Clare Neely
    Mark, as well as contacting the website I would forward this note to Richard Ambler and ask him or colleagues to raise it in Lambeths meetings with TfL. I
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 22, 2010
      Mark, as well as contacting the website I would forward this note to Richard
      Ambler and ask him or colleagues to raise it in Lambeths meetings with TfL.
      I would also draw up a Mayor Question, MQ, for and send it to our Assembly
      Member, Val Shawcross, Valerie.shawcross@...





      Clare





      _____

      From: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Knox
      Sent: 22 April 2010 00:11
      To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Cedars Road Junction





      I rode home this evening via Cedars Rd and I must admit I had not grasped
      from the emails quite how evil the new arrangement at the junction with
      Clapham Common is.

      The light for the left-turn filter goes green several seconds before the
      light for the straight-ahead movement across to the Common. So, if you are
      positioned within the ASL in a perfectly reasonable place for the
      straight-ahead movement, you suddenly find car-drivers hooting and screaming
      and trying to push through you in order to turn left. I was in the middle of
      the ASL and found myself having to hustle right so as to get out of the way.
      Less assertive cyclists who through habit position themselves on the left of
      the ASL will be really stuffed.

      This is a dangerous, thoughtless bit of designed-in conflict and I would
      urge anybody else who has concerns about it to pester TFL. It's anything but
      obvious from their website who you should write to but this seems the most
      general address for comments: londonstreets@
      <mailto:londonstreets%40tfl.gov.uk> tfl.gov.uk

      Mark Knox

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • wt56fh
      I use this junction every day. Last night it was very obvious that the cars have changed their tactics for the junction and that the cyclists have not yet
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 23, 2010
        I use this junction every day. Last night it was very obvious that the cars have changed their tactics for the junction and that the cyclists have not yet caught on.

        I got to the top and positioned myself to the left of the centre-line in the ASL box. I was then overtaken on my right by a woman in a car who positioned herself well in front of me!
        A bus then pulled up alongside me on my left in the ASL, blocking it for any further cyclists.
        Those cyclists that did arrive then positioned them selves in front of the bus. There was no room to my right or in front of me because of the nice lady in the car (who was now on the phone).
        So when the filter light came on the bus started hooting at the cyclists and shuffling forwards herding them across the junction and potentially into the path of right turning traffic from the main road.

        A pretty typical set of tactics all round sadly. This junction, as it's set out at the moment just doesn't work for cyclists who aren't confident enough to place themselves in the centre of the road, or who wouldn't normally enter an ASL from the right.

        >
        >
        > I rode home this evening via Cedars Rd and I must admit I had not grasped
        > from the emails quite how evil the new arrangement at the junction with
        > Clapham Common is.
        >
        > The light for the left-turn filter goes green several seconds before the
        > light for the straight-ahead movement across to the Common. So, if you are
        > positioned within the ASL in a perfectly reasonable place for the
        > straight-ahead movement, you suddenly find car-drivers hooting and screaming
        > and trying to push through you in order to turn left. I was in the middle of
        > the ASL and found myself having to hustle right so as to get out of the way.
        > Less assertive cyclists who through habit position themselves on the left of
        > the ASL will be really stuffed.
        >
        > This is a dangerous, thoughtless bit of designed-in conflict and I would
        > urge anybody else who has concerns about it to pester TFL. It's anything but
        > obvious from their website who you should write to but this seems the most
        > general address for comments: londonstreets@
        > <mailto:londonstreets%40tfl.gov.uk> tfl.gov.uk
        >
        > Mark Knox
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2818 - Release Date: 04/18/10
        > 07:31:00
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Charlie Holland
        Photos and more on the Real Cycling blogspot http://realcycling.blogspot.com/
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 23, 2010
          Photos and more on the Real Cycling blogspot
          http://realcycling.blogspot.com/
        • simonstill
          ... Well expressed. I ve had an initial response from TFL but no more than to say that it is being looked at. It struck me that in the meantime the junction
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 27, 2010
            --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Holland" <charlie@...> wrote:
            >
            > Photos and more on the Real Cycling blogspot
            > http://realcycling.blogspot.com/
            >

            Well expressed. I've had an initial response from TFL but no more than to say that it is being looked at.

            It struck me that in the meantime the junction could be made safe with 3 strips of Gaffa tape about 20cm long and a step ladder. Anyone local enough to make a visit?
          • Philip Loy
            ... - A bit of guerrilla highway modification that could be used for a high publicity PR stunt and photo opp. Not that I m suggesting anything mind you, as a
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 29, 2010
              --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "simonstill" <simon@...> wrote:
              >
              > I've had an initial response from TFL but no more than to say that
              > it is being looked at.
              >
              > It struck me that in the meantime the junction could be made safe
              > with 3 strips of Gaffa tape about 20cm long and a step ladder.
              > Anyone local enough to make a visit?


              - A bit of guerrilla highway modification that could be used for a high publicity PR stunt and photo opp. Not that I'm suggesting anything mind you, as a responsible member of the Lambeth community. However, it would very much be in keeping with the DIY ethos of the 'John Lewis council' vision:

              http://is.gd/bMYlz

              Has anyone raised this with Val Shawcross, GLA member for Lambeth/ Southwark yet? If not I might draft a TfL question for her.

              The junction of Baylis Road and Waterloo Road was raised recently. A couple of weeks ago I happen to be passing and so watched the traffic behaviour with the new road layout for a few cycles of the lights as I had nothing better to do (well I had really but I wanted to see it).

              On paper (or tarmac) the new ASL struck me as actually an intelligent layout to what otherwise is a standard textbook approach. There is a risk that a designers will consult a reference book and use the standard layout with a feeder lane on the left, the default design. But actually, some thought did go into this:

              http://twitgoo.com/okdfp

              In the Baylis Road case, I would suggest that the straight-ahead movement into The Cut probably needs more facilitation than the left-turn, which is an easier manoeuvre anyway. But I haven't seen the junction in the AM peak which is when I suspect there will be most left-turns, so I can't say with certainty that this really is the best deisgn for this junction. One problem of course is that it can be encroached:

              http://twitgoo.com/okdi9

              But the situation in the Baylis Road junction is that the road approaches at something of an angle, which might be one of several reasons why vehicles encroach on the ASL. In the Cedars Road situation the road is straight and the ASL with a central feeder lane like the one above (especially a longer one) would be seen from quite far back.

              The other option is for TfL to return the signalling to the way it was before, and to ask why they hadn't considered the needs of cyclists along a key cycle route.

              Philip
            • Danny Williams
              Baylis Road is really working for me. I go straight over into the Cut every morning and the cycle lane in the middle has made it much easier to take a path to
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 29, 2010
                Baylis Road is really working for me. I go straight over into the Cut every
                morning and the cycle lane in the middle has made it much easier to take a
                path to the front of the motor traffic and then to stay in front along the
                Cut.

                The only problem is that taxis pulling out from the slip road dwon from
                Waterloo tend to just pull out when they feel like it, blocking the entry
                point to the new central lane because they are pulling across into the right
                hand main lane (hope that makes sense). So, if anything, the cycle lane
                should be extended or the Keep Clear box should be properly enforced.

                On 29 April 2010 14:16, Philip Loy <philip_loy@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com<Lambeth_Cyclists%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "simonstill" <simon@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > I've had an initial response from TFL but no more than to say that
                > > it is being looked at.
                > >
                > > It struck me that in the meantime the junction could be made safe
                > > with 3 strips of Gaffa tape about 20cm long and a step ladder.
                > > Anyone local enough to make a visit?
                >
                > - A bit of guerrilla highway modification that could be used for a high
                > publicity PR stunt and photo opp. Not that I'm suggesting anything mind you,
                > as a responsible member of the Lambeth community. However, it would very
                > much be in keeping with the DIY ethos of the 'John Lewis council' vision:
                >
                > http://is.gd/bMYlz
                >
                > Has anyone raised this with Val Shawcross, GLA member for Lambeth/
                > Southwark yet? If not I might draft a TfL question for her.
                >
                > The junction of Baylis Road and Waterloo Road was raised recently. A couple
                > of weeks ago I happen to be passing and so watched the traffic behaviour
                > with the new road layout for a few cycles of the lights as I had nothing
                > better to do (well I had really but I wanted to see it).
                >
                > On paper (or tarmac) the new ASL struck me as actually an intelligent
                > layout to what otherwise is a standard textbook approach. There is a risk
                > that a designers will consult a reference book and use the standard layout
                > with a feeder lane on the left, the default design. But actually, some
                > thought did go into this:
                >
                > http://twitgoo.com/okdfp
                >
                > In the Baylis Road case, I would suggest that the straight-ahead movement
                > into The Cut probably needs more facilitation than the left-turn, which is
                > an easier manoeuvre anyway. But I haven't seen the junction in the AM peak
                > which is when I suspect there will be most left-turns, so I can't say with
                > certainty that this really is the best deisgn for this junction. One problem
                > of course is that it can be encroached:
                >
                > http://twitgoo.com/okdi9
                >
                > But the situation in the Baylis Road junction is that the road approaches
                > at something of an angle, which might be one of several reasons why vehicles
                > encroach on the ASL. In the Cedars Road situation the road is straight and
                > the ASL with a central feeder lane like the one above (especially a longer
                > one) would be seen from quite far back.
                >
                > The other option is for TfL to return the signalling to the way it was
                > before, and to ask why they hadn't considered the needs of cyclists along a
                > key cycle route.
                >
                > Philip
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Carolyn Serter
                Hi Danny Totally agree, especially the taxis who may have the knowledge but lack road sense! Carolyn Serter ...
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 29, 2010
                  Hi Danny

                  Totally agree, especially the taxis who may have the 'knowledge' but lack road sense!

                  Carolyn Serter



                  > To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: dannyrjw@...
                  > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:31:51 +0100
                  > Subject: Re: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Cedars Road Junction
                  >
                  > Baylis Road is really working for me. I go straight over into the Cut every
                  > morning and the cycle lane in the middle has made it much easier to take a
                  > path to the front of the motor traffic and then to stay in front along the
                  > Cut.
                  >
                  > The only problem is that taxis pulling out from the slip road dwon from
                  > Waterloo tend to just pull out when they feel like it, blocking the entry
                  > point to the new central lane because they are pulling across into the right
                  > hand main lane (hope that makes sense). So, if anything, the cycle lane
                  > should be extended or the Keep Clear box should be properly enforced.
                  >
                  > On 29 April 2010 14:16, Philip Loy <philip_loy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com<Lambeth_Cyclists%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > > "simonstill" <simon@...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I've had an initial response from TFL but no more than to say that
                  > > > it is being looked at.
                  > > >
                  > > > It struck me that in the meantime the junction could be made safe
                  > > > with 3 strips of Gaffa tape about 20cm long and a step ladder.
                  > > > Anyone local enough to make a visit?
                  > >
                  > > - A bit of guerrilla highway modification that could be used for a high
                  > > publicity PR stunt and photo opp. Not that I'm suggesting anything mind you,
                  > > as a responsible member of the Lambeth community. However, it would very
                  > > much be in keeping with the DIY ethos of the 'John Lewis council' vision:
                  > >
                  > > http://is.gd/bMYlz
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone raised this with Val Shawcross, GLA member for Lambeth/
                  > > Southwark yet? If not I might draft a TfL question for her.
                  > >
                  > > The junction of Baylis Road and Waterloo Road was raised recently. A couple
                  > > of weeks ago I happen to be passing and so watched the traffic behaviour
                  > > with the new road layout for a few cycles of the lights as I had nothing
                  > > better to do (well I had really but I wanted to see it).
                  > >
                  > > On paper (or tarmac) the new ASL struck me as actually an intelligent
                  > > layout to what otherwise is a standard textbook approach. There is a risk
                  > > that a designers will consult a reference book and use the standard layout
                  > > with a feeder lane on the left, the default design. But actually, some
                  > > thought did go into this:
                  > >
                  > > http://twitgoo.com/okdfp
                  > >
                  > > In the Baylis Road case, I would suggest that the straight-ahead movement
                  > > into The Cut probably needs more facilitation than the left-turn, which is
                  > > an easier manoeuvre anyway. But I haven't seen the junction in the AM peak
                  > > which is when I suspect there will be most left-turns, so I can't say with
                  > > certainty that this really is the best deisgn for this junction. One problem
                  > > of course is that it can be encroached:
                  > >
                  > > http://twitgoo.com/okdi9
                  > >
                  > > But the situation in the Baylis Road junction is that the road approaches
                  > > at something of an angle, which might be one of several reasons why vehicles
                  > > encroach on the ASL. In the Cedars Road situation the road is straight and
                  > > the ASL with a central feeder lane like the one above (especially a longer
                  > > one) would be seen from quite far back.
                  > >
                  > > The other option is for TfL to return the signalling to the way it was
                  > > before, and to ask why they hadn't considered the needs of cyclists along a
                  > > key cycle route.
                  > >
                  > > Philip
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:
                  > http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=525
                  >
                  > Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.
                  > http://www.lambethcyclists.org.uk
                  > http://www.lcc.org.uk/
                  >
                  > Email: lambeth_cyclists@...
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >

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                • Rebecca Lack
                  Having read all the posts to the e-list over the past couple of weeks, I went to Cedars Road today to have a shufty. I spent around 45 mins watching the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 29, 2010
                    Having read all the posts to the e-list over the past couple of weeks, I went to Cedars Road today to have a shufty.
                    I spent around 45 mins watching the junction between around 16.00 and 16.45. I took off my hi viz jacket and took out my copy of the Standard to 'read'. So I was there and visible but perhaps not obviously a cyclist. I noticed that:* the green phase times are generous* the ASL is set along way back from the lights for no obvious reason.
                    It was daylight, excellent visibility and not yet the evening peak. Yet, I reckon 1 in 2 times the junction was not used as intended.
                    What I saw was:* drivers not noticing they had a left filter and either waiting until the lights for all traffic changed before moving off or, if there were more than one vehicle turning left, being hooted until s/he realised (which made the experience a noisy and aggressive-sounding);* drivers encroaching into the ASL * drivers/motorcyclists filling the ASL* drivers/motorcyclists who had plenty of time to stop in front of the ASL, passing through the cyclist box and waiting the other side of it. (There was a period when for **each** phase of the lights a driver crossed the ASL and waited under the lights! This stopped when my companion arrived - it seemed the presence of two bikes, and two people standing at the junction was sufficiently obvious that drivers paid attention to the layout or thought we were officials of some kind* drivers continuing through the junction on red when they had had time to stop.
                    As I watched, no cyclist who arrived at the junction while the lights were red, used the junction in accordance with the markings. Of course, what I couldn't tell was if this was in response to the challenges of the junction or whether they handled every lit junction in that way.
                    Phil, I took photos of around 4 instances of drivers waiting for the lights to change, while positioned clear (ahead) of the ASL, I can send you these if they would be helpful. You have my email address...
                    Rebecca
                    shockingpinkbike@...



                    To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                    From: philip_loy@...
                    Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:16:19 +0000
                    Subject: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Cedars Road Junction
































                    --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "simonstill" <simon@...> wrote:

                    >

                    > I've had an initial response from TFL but no more than to say that

                    > it is being looked at.

                    >

                    > It struck me that in the meantime the junction could be made safe

                    > with 3 strips of Gaffa tape about 20cm long and a step ladder.

                    > Anyone local enough to make a visit?



                    - A bit of guerrilla highway modification that could be used for a high publicity PR stunt and photo opp. Not that I'm suggesting anything mind you, as a responsible member of the Lambeth community. However, it would very much be in keeping with the DIY ethos of the 'John Lewis council' vision:



                    http://is.gd/bMYlz



                    Has anyone raised this with Val Shawcross, GLA member for Lambeth/ Southwark yet? If not I might draft a TfL question for her.



                    The junction of Baylis Road and Waterloo Road was raised recently. A couple of weeks ago I happen to be passing and so watched the traffic behaviour with the new road layout for a few cycles of the lights as I had nothing better to do (well I had really but I wanted to see it).



                    On paper (or tarmac) the new ASL struck me as actually an intelligent layout to what otherwise is a standard textbook approach. There is a risk that a designers will consult a reference book and use the standard layout with a feeder lane on the left, the default design. But actually, some thought did go into this:



                    http://twitgoo.com/okdfp



                    In the Baylis Road case, I would suggest that the straight-ahead movement into The Cut probably needs more facilitation than the left-turn, which is an easier manoeuvre anyway. But I haven't seen the junction in the AM peak which is when I suspect there will be most left-turns, so I can't say with certainty that this really is the best deisgn for this junction. One problem of course is that it can be encroached:



                    http://twitgoo.com/okdi9



                    But the situation in the Baylis Road junction is that the road approaches at something of an angle, which might be one of several reasons why vehicles encroach on the ASL. In the Cedars Road situation the road is straight and the ASL with a central feeder lane like the one above (especially a longer one) would be seen from quite far back.



                    The other option is for TfL to return the signalling to the way it was before, and to ask why they hadn't considered the needs of cyclists along a key cycle route.



                    Philip


















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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Vivian McClew
                    Hi there! I use this junction at rush hour (7:10 am) on my commute to work and I have to say that the new layout is very welcome, at least by yours truly! I
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 1, 2010
                      Hi there!

                      I use this junction at rush hour (7:10 am) on my commute to work and I
                      have to say that the new layout is very welcome, at least by yours
                      truly! I have not seen many cars encroaching the ASL - something that I
                      have to say I see more and more, cars stopping behind the line - and for
                      those of us going straight into The Cut it works very well. I find it
                      very easy to filter into that middle lane. I think it also works for
                      cyclists who are turning left.

                      So, yes, IMO the new layout works very well. I used to hate that
                      junction, mainly b/c drivers stop at the lights, with all the intention
                      of turning left, but their indicator is not on. If the drivers bother to
                      use it, they turn it on as the lights turn green. That's too late for
                      the cyclist going straight ahead.

                      Oh, and a road nicely paved is ALWAYS welcome! :-)

                      Vivian
                      ---
                      "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in
                      school". No Surrender


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Loy
                      Sent: 29 April 2010 14:16
                      To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Cedars Road Junction


                      In the Baylis Road case, I would suggest that the straight-ahead
                      movement into The Cut probably needs more facilitation than the
                      left-turn, which is an easier manoeuvre anyway. But I haven't seen the
                      junction in the AM peak which is when I suspect there will be most
                      left-turns, so I can't say with certainty that this really is the best
                      deisgn for this junction. One problem of course is that it can be
                      encroached:

                      http://twitgoo.com/okdi9

                      But the situation in the Baylis Road junction is that the road
                      approaches at something of an angle, which might be one of several
                      reasons why vehicles encroach on the ASL. In the Cedars Road situation
                      the road is straight and the ASL with a central feeder lane like the one
                      above (especially a longer one) would be seen from quite far back.

                      The other option is for TfL to return the signalling to the way it was
                      before, and to ask why they hadn't considered the needs of cyclists
                      along a key cycle route.

                      Philip






                      ------------------------------------

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                      http://www.lambethcyclists.org.uk
                      http://www.lcc.org.uk/

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                    • Carolyn Serter
                      Hi Viv I agree the new Bayliss/Waterloo rd. junction layout is much better, but it is not Cedars Road junction :) Carolyn Serter To:
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 1, 2010
                        Hi Viv

                        I agree the new Bayliss/Waterloo rd. junction layout is much better, but it is not Cedars Road junction :)

                        Carolyn Serter



                        To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                        From: vmcclew@...
                        Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 09:35:23 +0100
                        Subject: RE: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Cedars Road Junction




























                        Hi there!



                        I use this junction at rush hour (7:10 am) on my commute to work and I

                        have to say that the new layout is very welcome, at least by yours

                        truly! I have not seen many cars encroaching the ASL - something that I

                        have to say I see more and more, cars stopping behind the line - and for

                        those of us going straight into The Cut it works very well. I find it

                        very easy to filter into that middle lane. I think it also works for

                        cyclists who are turning left.



                        So, yes, IMO the new layout works very well. I used to hate that

                        junction, mainly b/c drivers stop at the lights, with all the intention

                        of turning left, but their indicator is not on. If the drivers bother to

                        use it, they turn it on as the lights turn green. That's too late for

                        the cyclist going straight ahead.



                        Oh, and a road nicely paved is ALWAYS welcome! :-)



                        Vivian

                        ---

                        "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in

                        school". No Surrender



                        -----Original Message-----

                        From: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com

                        [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Loy

                        Sent: 29 April 2010 14:16

                        To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com

                        Subject: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Cedars Road Junction



                        In the Baylis Road case, I would suggest that the straight-ahead

                        movement into The Cut probably needs more facilitation than the

                        left-turn, which is an easier manoeuvre anyway. But I haven't seen the

                        junction in the AM peak which is when I suspect there will be most

                        left-turns, so I can't say with certainty that this really is the best

                        deisgn for this junction. One problem of course is that it can be

                        encroached:



                        http://twitgoo.com/okdi9



                        But the situation in the Baylis Road junction is that the road

                        approaches at something of an angle, which might be one of several

                        reasons why vehicles encroach on the ASL. In the Cedars Road situation

                        the road is straight and the ASL with a central feeder lane like the one

                        above (especially a longer one) would be seen from quite far back.



                        The other option is for TfL to return the signalling to the way it was

                        before, and to ask why they hadn't considered the needs of cyclists

                        along a key cycle route.



                        Philip



                        ------------------------------------



                        Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:

                        http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=525



                        Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.

                        http://www.lambethcyclists.org.uk

                        http://www.lcc.org.uk/



                        Email: lambeth_cyclists@...

                        Yahoo! Groups Links


















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                      • simonstill
                        1 Proposal came from Bus Priority team focussed on benefits for route 345. A swept path analysis indicated that buses and HGVs turning left from the Cedars
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 18, 2010
                          1


                          Proposal came from Bus Priority team focussed on benefits for route 345.



                          A swept path analysis indicated that buses and HGVs turning left from
                          the Cedars Road approach can do so without using the offside lane, which
                          would have stationary traffic at times as a result of the proposals.

                          The proposal to introduce a left turn filter phase on the Cedars Road
                          approach is a low cost option that would provide consistent and
                          continual benefits to traffic at the junction without disadvantages to
                          pedestrians or cyclists.



                          Approval document seems to be the

                          Directorate of traffic operations traffic signal supplementary report.
                          5/6/09



                          The Promoter has stated that there will be neutral impact on cyclists
                          but as there is an Advanced Stop-line on Cedars Road, giving a green
                          indication to left-turning vehicles only whilst indicating red to
                          right-turning traffic may cause conflicts within the cycle-only area
                          downstream of the ASL where there is no lane segregation. This has been
                          discussed with John Lee of the Cycling Centre of Excellence and he has
                          stated a preference for the ASL to apply to the offside lane only or one
                          split in half but he will accept the existing layout.



                          Summary of assessment

                          ….However, the potential safety issue for cyclists as a result of
                          this change must be addressed.

                          Recommended to proceed.



                          Email response from Signals team – 4/9/2009



                          I would not object to the proposed change at Cedars Road signals as the
                          left-turn `early start' is only for about 7 seconds. I suggest
                          that the junction is monitored to see if there are any problems with
                          cyclists positioning and obstruction. If problems arose then either a
                          short central feeder lane or off-side only ASL could be considered.



                          My Conclusions

                          - Promoter's assessment that there would be no disadvantage to
                          cyclists (with no evidence provided) was questioned at approval stage

                          - Cycling Centre of Excellence failed to really engage

                          - Statement that "Potential safety issue for cyclists must be
                          addressed" was ignored (it was not made a condition of approval)

                          - Further highlight of potential issues for cyclists subsequently
                          made by Signals team.



                          I presume the emails we've sent them, and comments here, should
                          indicate that there ARE problems for cyclists. What do people suggest
                          as next steps?



                          --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Knox" <mpknox@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I rode home this evening via Cedars Rd and I must admit I had not
                          grasped from the emails quite how evil the new arrangement at the
                          junction with Clapham Common is.




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • simonstill
                          ... Apologies if that mail was hard to read. I formatted it using the rich text editor on the web interface only to find all of the formatting stripped out
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 18, 2010
                            --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "simonstill" <simon@...> wrote:
                            Apologies if that mail was hard to read. I formatted it using the 'rich text editor' on the web interface only to find all of the formatting stripped out both online and in the mail...
                          • Philip Loy
                            ... Simon, thank you for taking the time to pursue this via FoI with TfL, this is great. It is clear that the highway authority has failed to highlight the
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 18, 2010
                              --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "simonstill" wrote:
                              >
                              > I presume the emails we've sent them, and comments here, should
                              > indicate that there ARE problems for cyclists. What do people
                              > suggest as next steps?


                              Simon, thank you for taking the time to pursue this via FoI with TfL, this is great.

                              It is clear that the highway authority has failed to highlight the safety problems the proposed signal changes entails. In fact it's so fundamental I wonder how attentive the people responsible were, and whether there isn't a case for negligence.

                              The report states:

                              "the proposal would benefit all traffic on this approach equally" - incorrect, it is of huge disbenefit to cycle traffic.

                              "Cyclists & Pedestrians. Neutral impact on both" - incorrect, it has a detrimental impact on cyclist safety and probably adds more crossing time for pedestrians.

                              If I've read the data correctly, on Tuesday 3rd March 2009 there were apparently 153 cyclists going north on Cedars Road between 6pm and 7pm.

                              In the same period, there were 12 buses turning left, the vehicles which the signal modification was allegedly supposed to benefit. Hardly seems worth it, does it?

                              You ask about the next stage. Don't waste time - go straight to the top. Clare has suggested a Mayoral Question to be sent to the Assembly
                              Member for Lambeth & Southwark, Val Shawcross.

                              The question needs to highlight the fact that no consultation was undertaken with user group stakeholders (i.e. us), and that that the failure to appreciate the requirements for cyclists on what is a major and designated cycle route was so fundamental that not recognising it should surely border on negligence.

                              thanks
                              Philip
                            • Nick Ormiston-Smith
                              ... Those 12 buses probably contain approx 500 people. (all of which have chosen not to take a car) Cheers Nick ... Nick Ormiston-Smith Data Analysis and
                              Message 14 of 18 , Aug 18, 2010
                                > In the same period, there were 12 buses turning left, the vehicles which the signal modification was allegedly supposed to benefit. Hardly seems worth it, does it?

                                Those 12 buses probably contain approx 500 people. (all of which have chosen not to take a car)

                                Cheers

                                Nick

                                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Nick Ormiston-Smith
                                Data Analysis and Research Manager
                                Statistical Information Team

                                Ext 8094
                                http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/

                                From: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Loy
                                Sent: 18 August 2010 18:18
                                To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Cedars Road Junction

                                 


                                --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "simonstill" wrote:
                                >
                                > I presume the emails we've sent them, and comments here, should
                                > indicate that there ARE problems for cyclists. What do people
                                > suggest as next steps?

                                Simon, thank you for taking the time to pursue this via FoI with TfL, this is great.

                                It is clear that the highway authority has failed to highlight the safety problems the proposed signal changes entails. In fact it's so fundamental I wonder how attentive the people responsible were, and whether there isn't a case for negligence.

                                The report states:

                                "the proposal would benefit all traffic on this approach equally" - incorrect, it is of huge disbenefit to cycle traffic.

                                "Cyclists & Pedestrians. Neutral impact on both" - incorrect, it has a detrimental impact on cyclist safety and probably adds more crossing time for pedestrians.

                                If I've read the data correctly, on Tuesday 3rd March 2009 there were apparently 153 cyclists going north on Cedars Road between 6pm and 7pm.

                                In the same period, there were 12 buses turning left, the vehicles which the signal modification was allegedly supposed to benefit. Hardly seems worth it, does it?

                                You ask about the next stage. Don't waste time - go straight to the top. Clare has suggested a Mayoral Question to be sent to the Assembly
                                Member for Lambeth & Southwark, Val Shawcross.

                                The question needs to highlight the fact that no consultation was undertaken with user group stakeholders (i.e. us), and that that the failure to appreciate the requirements for cyclists on what is a major and designated cycle route was so fundamental that not recognising it should surely border on negligence.

                                thanks
                                Philip


                                This communication is from Cancer Research UK. Our website is at www.cancerresearchuk.org. We are a registered charity in England and Wales (1089464) and in Scotland (SC041666) and a company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales under number 4325234. Our registered address is 61 Lincoln's Inn Fields, London WC2A 3PX. Our central telephone number is 020 7242 0200.

                                From 1 October 2010 our registered address will be Angel Building, 407 St John Street, London, EC1V 4AD.

                                This communication and any attachments contain information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of disclosure, distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it or in any attachments is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete the email and destroy any copies of it.

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                              • Philip Loy
                                ... Ah yes, good point, presuming the buses are full. Curious though that the focus is route 345 and not say the 137. Not sure what other buses go that way.
                                Message 15 of 18 , Aug 18, 2010
                                  --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, Nick Ormiston-Smith <nick.ormiston-smith@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Those 12 buses probably contain approx 500 people. (all of which
                                  > have chosen not to take a car)


                                  Ah yes, good point, presuming the buses are full. Curious though that the focus is route 345 and not say the 137. Not sure what other buses go that way.

                                  Philip
                                • clneely@kemerton.force9.co.uk
                                  Simon, absolutely endorse Philip s suggestion to go straight to the top. Valerie Shawcross address is valerie.shawcross@london.gov.uk. Last date for the 19th
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Aug 18, 2010
                                    Simon, absolutely endorse Philip's suggestion to go straight to the top. Valerie Shawcross address is valerie.shawcross@....

                                    Last date for the 19th September MQs is 6th September.


                                    Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: "Philip Loy" <philip_loy@...>
                                    Sender: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:17:57
                                    To: <Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Reply-To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Cedars Road Junction


                                    --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "simonstill" wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I presume the emails we've sent them, and comments here, should
                                    > indicate that there ARE problems for cyclists. What do people
                                    > suggest as next steps?


                                    Simon, thank you for taking the time to pursue this via FoI with TfL, this is great.

                                    It is clear that the highway authority has failed to highlight the safety problems the proposed signal changes entails. In fact it's so fundamental I wonder how attentive the people responsible were, and whether there isn't a case for negligence.

                                    The report states:

                                    "the proposal would benefit all traffic on this approach equally" - incorrect, it is of huge disbenefit to cycle traffic.

                                    "Cyclists & Pedestrians. Neutral impact on both" - incorrect, it has a detrimental impact on cyclist safety and probably adds more crossing time for pedestrians.

                                    If I've read the data correctly, on Tuesday 3rd March 2009 there were apparently 153 cyclists going north on Cedars Road between 6pm and 7pm.

                                    In the same period, there were 12 buses turning left, the vehicles which the signal modification was allegedly supposed to benefit. Hardly seems worth it, does it?

                                    You ask about the next stage. Don't waste time - go straight to the top. Clare has suggested a Mayoral Question to be sent to the Assembly
                                    Member for Lambeth & Southwark, Val Shawcross.

                                    The question needs to highlight the fact that no consultation was undertaken with user group stakeholders (i.e. us), and that that the failure to appreciate the requirements for cyclists on what is a major and designated cycle route was so fundamental that not recognising it should surely border on negligence.

                                    thanks
                                    Philip







                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • simonstill
                                    ... What I really don t understand is how this was meant to help. I think some of the data does try to measure congestion but I ve never seen any evidence of
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Aug 19, 2010
                                      --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "Philip Loy" <philip_loy@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      > If I've read the data correctly, on Tuesday 3rd March 2009 there were apparently 153 cyclists going north on Cedars Road between 6pm and 7pm.
                                      >
                                      > In the same period, there were 12 buses turning left, the vehicles which the signal modification was allegedly supposed to benefit. Hardly seems worth it, does it?

                                      What I really don't understand is how this was meant to help. I think some of the data does try to measure congestion but I've never seen any evidence of buses not getting through the junction in a single light cycle - vehicles turning right yes, but not those turning left. There's a bus lane along the length of Cedars Road and it's only possible for 3 or 4 cars to be ahead of the bus stop - well within the junction capacity.
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