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RE: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Baylis Road cycle lanes

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  • Rebecca Lack
    Phil Loy posted a query to the e-list two or so years ago asking for opinions on the efficacy of ASLs. Phil did you reach a conclusion? Apols if you did post
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 2, 2010
      Phil Loy posted a query to the e-list two or so years ago asking for opinions on the efficacy of ASLs. Phil did you reach a conclusion? Apols if you did post it and I missed it.
      I'm not in favour of these lanes/lines at and approaching junctions. I feel I am safer and more visible if I take my place on the carriageway as part of the traffic ie in the centre of the lane so I can see and be seen.
      At Baylis Road j/w Waterloo Road, as with the northern end northbound of Waterloo Bridge, there is not space for these lanes and wide vehicles - eg buses (of which there are a great many on these routes) and lorries, etc.
      Rebecca
      shockingpinkbike@...



      To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
      From: guschetto@...
      Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:16:34 -0700
      Subject: Re: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane




























      I used it yesterday and today and I think it's not applicable there because to carry on the cycle lane you need to do a maneuver from the right to the middle the road to go into the cycle lane. Very weird. As i turn left I haven't used it and got more taught keeping on the right hand side. I agree Carolyn. There should be at least right and middle cycle lane.



      Gustavo Gontijo



      ________________________________

      From: Danny Williams <dannyrjw@...>

      To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Wed, 31 March, 2010 8:02:11

      Subject: Re: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane



      Used it again this morning. There was a bus straddling the middle lane at

      the entry point to the lane and vehicles in the left hand side further

      forward (keeping the new bike lane clear). So, it neither let me go straight

      on through the middle or to the left. Not very handy.



      On 31 March 2010 07:54, Carolyn Serter <cssmr1@hotmail. com> wrote:



      >

      > Just to say that there should be a left and middle* cycle lane... although

      > when I used it* a taxi was half way across it!

      >

      > Carolyn Serter

      >

      >

      >

      > To: Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com

      > From: m.cushman@lse. ac.uk

      > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:18:49 +0100

      > Subject: RE: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane

      >

      >

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      > Ta, I'll have a look tomorrow. Putting it in the middle will make

      >

      > turning left more dangerous of course.

      >

      >

      >

      > Mikie

      >

      >

      >

      > -----Original Message-----

      >

      > From: Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com

      >

      > [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Danny Williams

      >

      > Sent: 30 March 2010 20:07

      >

      > To: Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com

      >

      > Subject: Re: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane

      >

      >

      >

      > It has reappeared this morning but is now in the middle of the two lanes

      >

      > rather than on the left hand feeder. It actually makes it much much

      >

      > easier to carry straight over the junction into The Cut. At least it did

      >

      > this morning.

      >

      >

      >

      > On 30 March 2010 17:26, <m.cushman@lse. ac.uk> wrote:

      >

      >

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      > > As part of the much needed resurfacing of Waterloo Road, the eastern

      >

      > > end of Bayliss Road has also been re-surfaced. As a result the cycle

      >

      > > lane has been removed.

      >

      > >

      >

      > > Does anyone know whether this is temporary and the lane will shortly

      >

      > > reappear or have we lost it for good. Bayliss Road/Waterllo Road is a

      >

      > > dangerous junction and the loss of 20 metres of lane approaching it

      >

      > > make life far more hazardous.

      >

      > >

      >

      > > Mike

      >

      > >

      >

      > > Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic

      >

      > > communications disclaimer:

      >

      > > http://www.lse ac.uk/collection s/planningAndCor poratePolicy/ legalandCo

      >

      > > mplianceTeam/ legal/disclaimer .htm

      >

      > >

      >

      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      >

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      >

      >

      > ------------ --------- --------- ------

      >

      >

      >

      > Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:

      >

      > http://www.lcc org.uk/index. asp?PageID= 525

      >

      >

      >

      > Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.

      >

      > http://www.lambethc yclists.org. uk

      >

      > http://www.lcc org.uk/

      >

      >

      >

      > Email: lambeth_cyclists@ hotmail.com

      >

      > Yahoo! Groups Links

      >

      >

      >

      > Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic

      > communications disclaimer:

      > http://www.lse ac.uk/collection s/planningAndCor poratePolicy/ legalandComplian ceTeam/legal/ disclaimer. htm

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

      > Send us your Hotmail stories and be featured in our newsletter

      > http://clk.atdmt com/UKM/go/ 195013117/ direct/01/

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      >

      >

      > ------------ --------- --------- ------

      >

      > Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:

      > http://www.lcc org.uk/index. asp?PageID= 525

      >

      > Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.

      > http://www.lambethc yclists.org. uk

      > http://www.lcc org.uk/

      >

      > Email: lambeth_cyclists@ hotmail.com

      > Yahoo! Groups Links

      >

      >

      >

      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vivian McClew
      I m all for ASL s, when they are respected by non-impatient motorists and motorcyclists, they are a life saver. In most cases, the ASL s are in place where it
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 3, 2010
        I'm all for ASL's, when they are respected by non-impatient motorists
        and motorcyclists, they are a life saver. In most cases, the ASL's are
        in place where it requires a change of lane after traffic lights. Not
        everybody is comfortable changing lanes in moving traffic.

        But unless the powers that be properly enforce them, the same as cycle
        lanes (not parking spaces), it's all "cosmetic meassures" as far as I'm
        concerned.

        Enforcement is the key here. Enforcement of the super highways, cycle
        lanes, ASL's and the 20 mph in built up areas.

        I cycle with a camera on my helmet. Here's a vid I shot of a very good
        and considerate lorry driver (second half of vid). And yes, I did take a
        gamble going up on the inside of the lorry, but if the driver is paying
        attention and looking at his/her mirrors, it should't be dangerous,
        should it?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jqYuDoQvD4

        And now that I'm at it, see this very stupid (and I'm being polite here)
        bus driver on Cable Street. Where's a brick when you need one, hey? (bit
        of swearing in this one..!)

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRF3kCEFhyE



        Vivian
        ---
        "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in
        school". No Surrender


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca Lack
        Sent: 02 April 2010 11:06
        To: lambeth_cyclists@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Baylis Road cycle lanes



        Phil Loy posted a query to the e-list two or so years ago asking for
        opinions on the efficacy of ASLs. Phil did you reach a conclusion? Apols
        if you did post it and I missed it. I'm not in favour of these
        lanes/lines at and approaching junctions. I feel I am safer and more
        visible if I take my place on the carriageway as part of the traffic ie
        in the centre of the lane so I can see and be seen. At Baylis Road j/w
        Waterloo Road, as with the northern end northbound of Waterloo Bridge,
        there is not space for these lanes and wide vehicles - eg buses (of
        which there are a great many on these routes) and lorries, etc. Rebecca
        shockingpinkbike@...



        To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
        From: guschetto@...
        Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:16:34 -0700
        Subject: Re: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane




























        I used it yesterday and today and I think it's not applicable
        there because to carry on the cycle lane you need to do a maneuver from
        the right to the middle the road to go into the cycle lane. Very weird.
        As i turn left I haven't used it and got more taught keeping on the
        right hand side. I agree Carolyn. There should be at least right and
        middle cycle lane.



        Gustavo Gontijo



        ________________________________

        From: Danny Williams <dannyrjw@...>

        To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com

        Sent: Wed, 31 March, 2010 8:02:11

        Subject: Re: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane



        Used it again this morning. There was a bus straddling the middle lane
        at

        the entry point to the lane and vehicles in the left hand side further

        forward (keeping the new bike lane clear). So, it neither let me go
        straight

        on through the middle or to the left. Not very handy.



        On 31 March 2010 07:54, Carolyn Serter <cssmr1@hotmail. com> wrote:



        >

        > Just to say that there should be a left and middle* cycle lane...
        > although

        > when I used it* a taxi was half way across it!

        >

        > Carolyn Serter

        >

        >

        >

        > To: Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com

        > From: m.cushman@lse. ac.uk

        > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:18:49 +0100

        > Subject: RE: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > Ta, I'll have a look tomorrow. Putting it in the middle will make

        >

        > turning left more dangerous of course.

        >

        >

        >

        > Mikie

        >

        >

        >

        > -----Original Message-----

        >

        > From: Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com

        >

        > [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Danny
        > Williams

        >

        > Sent: 30 March 2010 20:07

        >

        > To: Lambeth_Cyclists@ yahoogroups. com

        >

        > Subject: Re: [Lambeth_Cyclists] bayliss road cycle lane

        >

        >

        >

        > It has reappeared this morning but is now in the middle of the two
        > lanes

        >

        > rather than on the left hand feeder. It actually makes it much much

        >

        > easier to carry straight over the junction into The Cut. At least it
        > did

        >

        > this morning.

        >

        >

        >

        > On 30 March 2010 17:26, <m.cushman@lse. ac.uk> wrote:

        >

        >

        >

        > >

        >

        > >

        >

        > > As part of the much needed resurfacing of Waterloo Road, the eastern

        >

        > > end of Bayliss Road has also been re-surfaced. As a result the cycle

        >

        > > lane has been removed.

        >

        > >

        >

        > > Does anyone know whether this is temporary and the lane will shortly

        >

        > > reappear or have we lost it for good. Bayliss Road/Waterllo Road is
        > > a

        >

        > > dangerous junction and the loss of 20 metres of lane approaching it

        >

        > > make life far more hazardous.

        >

        > >

        >

        > > Mike

        >

        > >

        >

        > > Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic

        >

        > > communications disclaimer:

        >

        > > http://www.lse ac.uk/collection s/planningAndCor poratePolicy/
        > > legalandCo

        >

        > > mplianceTeam/ legal/disclaimer .htm

        >

        > >

        >

        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        > >

        >

        > >

        >

        > >

        >

        >

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        >

        >

        > ------------ --------- --------- ------

        >

        >

        >

        > Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:

        >

        > http://www.lcc org.uk/index. asp?PageID= 525

        >

        >

        >

        > Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.

        >

        > http://www.lambethc yclists.org. uk

        >

        > http://www.lcc org.uk/

        >

        >

        >

        > Email: lambeth_cyclists@ hotmail.com

        >

        > Yahoo! Groups Links

        >

        >

        >

        > Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic

        > communications disclaimer:

        > http://www.lse ac.uk/collection s/planningAndCor poratePolicy/
        > legalandComplian ceTeam/legal/ disclaimer. htm

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

        > Send us your Hotmail stories and be featured in our newsletter

        > http://clk.atdmt com/UKM/go/ 195013117/ direct/01/

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        >

        >

        > ------------ --------- --------- ------

        >

        > Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:

        > http://www.lcc org.uk/index. asp?PageID= 525

        >

        > Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.

        > http://www.lambethc yclists.org. uk

        > http://www.lcc org.uk/

        >

        > Email: lambeth_cyclists@ hotmail.com

        > Yahoo! Groups Links

        >

        >

        >

        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        _________________________________________________________________
        http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/
        Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:
        http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=525

        Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.
        http://www.lambethcyclists.org.uk http://www.lcc.org.uk/

        Email: lambeth_cyclists@...
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • lylbf
        Vivian, How much is a camera and how bulky is it? I m tempted to get one as I ve had three or four near misses recently, have reported them all to the police,
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 4, 2010
          Vivian,

          How much is a camera and how bulky is it? I'm tempted to get one as I've had three or four near misses recently, have reported them all to the police, and had no action taken due to the lack of independent witnesses. Perhaps a nice video clip of an inconsiderate driver cutting me up would help?

          Before I do though, I've raised the matter with Val Shawcross at the GLA. Two of the incidents took place at CCTV-covered junctions, and when you give the police the vehicle type, registration number, and time, I think the least they could do is pull the tapes from TfL for corroboration. As it is, I'm not inclined to go on filling in the forms the police give me each time if they're not going to bother carrying out any sort of investigation.

          Coincidentally the latest LCC e-newsletter had info about a company that had dismissed a driver on the basis of an incident with a cyclist. One of my near-misses involved a lorry; wrote to the MD of the company with vehicle registration, time, date - no response yet ...

          Cheers,

          David

          --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "Vivian McClew" <vmcclew@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm all for ASL's, when they are respected by non-impatient motorists
          > and motorcyclists, they are a life saver. In most cases, the ASL's are
          > in place where it requires a change of lane after traffic lights. Not
          > everybody is comfortable changing lanes in moving traffic.
          >
          > But unless the powers that be properly enforce them, the same as cycle
          > lanes (not parking spaces), it's all "cosmetic meassures" as far as I'm
          > concerned.
          >
          > Enforcement is the key here. Enforcement of the super highways, cycle
          > lanes, ASL's and the 20 mph in built up areas.
          >
          > I cycle with a camera on my helmet. Here's a vid I shot of a very good
          > and considerate lorry driver (second half of vid). And yes, I did take a
          > gamble going up on the inside of the lorry, but if the driver is paying
          > attention and looking at his/her mirrors, it should't be dangerous,
          > should it?
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jqYuDoQvD4
          >
          > And now that I'm at it, see this very stupid (and I'm being polite here)
          > bus driver on Cable Street. Where's a brick when you need one, hey? (bit
          > of swearing in this one..!)
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRF3kCEFhyE
          >
          >
          >
          > Vivian
          > ---
          > "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in
          > school". No Surrender
        • Vivian McClew
          I got a Veho Muvi, hugely popular. I got it off Amazon.co.uk for a bit more than £50, plust the sports kit that comes with the stuff to attach it to your
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 4, 2010
            I got a Veho Muvi, hugely popular. I got it off Amazon.co.uk for a bit
            more than £50, plust the sports kit that comes with the stuff to attach
            it to your helmet.

            This is the official website: (don't be intimidated by the price, you
            can get them a lot cheaper in Amazon and other outlets).

            http://www.veho-uk.com/ProductDetail.aspx?id=87

            Amazon:

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/Veho-VCC-003-Muvi-Micro-Camcorder/dp/B0029631VI/
            ref=pd_cp_ce_0

            At night, as long as the streets have some lighting, it shoots OK. Total
            darnkess, not so good.

            Here's one I made in January.

            http://www.vimeo.com/9071918

            I bought this camera in December, still not bored of it! LOVE IT! :-)

            Ps: it's not rainproof.

            Vivian
            ---
            "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in
            school". No Surrender


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lylbf
            Sent: 04 April 2010 13:07
            To: Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Lambeth_Cyclists] Re: Baylis Road cycle lanes


            Vivian,

            How much is a camera and how bulky is it? I'm tempted to get one as
            I've had three or four near misses recently, have reported them all to
            the police, and had no action taken due to the lack of independent
            witnesses. Perhaps a nice video clip of an inconsiderate driver cutting
            me up would help?

            Before I do though, I've raised the matter with Val Shawcross at the
            GLA. Two of the incidents took place at CCTV-covered junctions, and
            when you give the police the vehicle type, registration number, and
            time, I think the least they could do is pull the tapes from TfL for
            corroboration. As it is, I'm not inclined to go on filling in the forms
            the police give me each time if they're not going to bother carrying out
            any sort of investigation.

            Coincidentally the latest LCC e-newsletter had info about a company that
            had dismissed a driver on the basis of an incident with a cyclist. One
            of my near-misses involved a lorry; wrote to the MD of the company with
            vehicle registration, time, date - no response yet ...

            Cheers,

            David

            --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, "Vivian McClew" <vmcclew@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I'm all for ASL's, when they are respected by non-impatient motorists
            > and motorcyclists, they are a life saver. In most cases, the ASL's are

            > in place where it requires a change of lane after traffic lights. Not
            > everybody is comfortable changing lanes in moving traffic.
            >
            > But unless the powers that be properly enforce them, the same as cycle

            > lanes (not parking spaces), it's all "cosmetic meassures" as far as
            > I'm concerned.
            >
            > Enforcement is the key here. Enforcement of the super highways, cycle
            > lanes, ASL's and the 20 mph in built up areas.
            >
            > I cycle with a camera on my helmet. Here's a vid I shot of a very good

            > and considerate lorry driver (second half of vid). And yes, I did take

            > a gamble going up on the inside of the lorry, but if the driver is
            > paying attention and looking at his/her mirrors, it should't be
            > dangerous, should it?
            >
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jqYuDoQvD4
            >
            > And now that I'm at it, see this very stupid (and I'm being polite
            > here) bus driver on Cable Street. Where's a brick when you need one,
            > hey? (bit of swearing in this one..!)
            >
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRF3kCEFhyE
            >
            >
            >
            > Vivian
            > ---
            > "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in
            > school". No Surrender




            ------------------------------------

            Too many e-mails? Don't leave! Advice here:
            http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=525

            Lambeth Cyclists are a branch of the London Cycling Campaign.
            http://www.lambethcyclists.org.uk http://www.lcc.org.uk/

            Email: lambeth_cyclists@...
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Philip Loy
            ... Rebecca, sorry for taking ages to reply to this. Even now this isn t a full response - I have more to say but for now let me share with you some
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 7, 2010
              --- In Lambeth_Cyclists@yahoogroups.com, Rebecca Lack wrote:
              >
              > Phil Loy posted a query to the e-list two or so years ago asking
              > for opinions on the efficacy of ASLs. Phil did you reach a
              > conclusion?

              Rebecca, sorry for taking ages to reply to this. Even now this isn't a full response - I have more to say but for now let me share with you some observations of Trevor Parsons of Hackney Cyclists as he puts it very well, and there's no point re-inventing the wheel, even if it is a bicycle wheel.

              Philip

              as below, more later...


              --------------------------------------------------------------------
              Mar 24, 2010
              Re: Preventing left hooks

              Ross observed:

              > waiting in a traffic queue at the rear of a vehicle, where the
              > exhaust is not an attractive option. you wont hear me saying no
              > thanks to ASLs provided at the front of traffic queues

              Knowing what a competent and well-informed rider he is, I'm sure Ross would decline the charms of the ASL in a case such as this:

              http://www.hackney-cyclists.org.uk/worth_the_wait.jpg

              (Photo taken at the south end of Southwark Bridge, from the comfort and safety of my position in the queue).

              Even if one concludes that, on balance, nearside lead-in lanes are desirable, it's hard to deny that they regularly encourage people into risky situations.

              Cheers,
              Trevor

              --------------------------------------------------------------------
              Mar 18, 2010
              Re: Preventing left hooks

              As ever, it's about making good judgements when balancing convenience and risk.

              I'm certainly not saying that it's never a good idea to make your way to the front of a queue. But currently most people push to the front as a default behaviour, unless it is physically impossible. Lead-in cycle lanes reinforce this behaviour. In a proportion of these cases, due to the traffic dynamics of the moment (eg a truck present in the queue, or the queue starting to move), the risk incurred in getting ahead is unreasonably high.

              People's unwillingness to queue is of course due largely to lack of patience, but it's also partly attributable to good old cyclist inferiority complex. Until you realise that you are an equal component of traffic, with the same rights and responsibilities as every other vehicle driver, you won't feel justified in taking the space necessary for ensuring your safety -- and that includes the space behind another vehicle in a queue.

              A handy spin-off of being willing to queue is that you have a much more relaxing time when the queue starts to move again, eg when the lights turn green. If you've put yourself in pole position ahead of a line of much more powerful vehicles, there's a very strong compulsion to make a sprint start, and less confident riders are often forced out of the safety of the primary position as they furiously pedal to get away. If you have a place in the queue a few vehicles back, you benefit from the 'concertina effect' when the vehicles ahead of you start moving, and your acceleration is typically much more gentle. (I tend to end up sailing past most of those who filtered to the front within a couple of hundred yards anyway).

              Of course, at peak times the queues can be pretty long, and this is when having a cycle-permeable street network really comes into its own, so that people can mix and match between main streets and back streets as suits their particular journey, routing around queues and busy junctions as much as possible.

              As things currently stand, motor-traffic congestion is inevitable and in many (though not all) respects good for cycling. We work around it by providing a fine-meshed network for cycle traffic, while restricting the through motor traffic to the coarse mesh. Thank goodness this is an aim we all agree on.

              Cheers,
              Trevor

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