1156Re: [Lambengolmor] An experiment in translation
- Aug 27, 2014
negation expressed in English by the adverb "never" is transferred
> to the verb later in this line, partly because it is
also because I did
> Tolkien's comments about negation (see below), but
Ryszard and Björn
> not find a satisfactory translation of such adverb.
'time' (V:370), i.e. *'in
> coincided in using a compound of _ú-_ + _lúme_
(IV:72), but that
> no time', that reminds of _ullume_ in Fíriel's song
Fíriel's song is _úye sére
> word is problematic. The complete sentence of
for ever', where
> indo-ninya símen ullume_, 'my heart resteth not here
_úye_ *'does not'. So
> the negative sense is already present in the verb
... not for ever'),
> it could be a double negation (lit. *'does not rest
similar as 'never'; but
> which could support using _ullume_ or something
meant 'for ever'.
> it could also be that _ullume_ *'in no time' just
_úlume_ as "'ever',
> Actually, WPP:156 cites a note dated 1964 glossing
> at all times (in a series or period)".
My use of _úlume_ is based on that note. I assumed that _úlume_ ... _lá_ 'ever ... not' would equal 'never'.
_íre_ 'when' from
> On the other hand, Ryszard and Björn used
written _yáíre_ by
> Fíriel's song. (I initially thought that Björn had
fortuituous result of a lost
> blending both words, but that seems to be a
> line break: the notes of the message and the oddly
verse, although Björn
> vowels suggest that _yá_ belongs to the previous
> did not explain its meaning there.)
Yes, somehow the line break disappeared on its way to Yahoo.
The _yá_ is that of the Etymologies ('ago', V:399). Thus _vanwe andave yá_ is intended to mean 'past (pl.) long ago'.
_latina_ related to
> _latine_: 'free' (pl.). Plural of the adjective
with obstacles", derived
> "freedom of movement, of things not encumbered
Each author has made
> from the root LAT- (WPP:159, also cited in VT41:5).
one is Björn's
> a different proposal for this adjective. The closest
_lerina_ 'of things:
> *_lérine_: he likely derived it from the adjective
"owned"', cited in a note about the
> not guarded, reserved, made fast, or
wrote in parallel
> root LER- (WPP:160, VT41:5), which Tolkien obviously
> with the note of LAT-.
The _é_ is a typo; it should be _lerine_ of course. Thank you for spotting this.
<> Björn Fromén
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