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Dick's WOW iterative polar alignement success

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  • linden_dave
    Hey, I think I might have missed a couple of posts on this! Might it be possible to get a one-post recap on just how the success was achieved? Sounds like
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 1, 2002
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      Hey,

      I think I might have missed a couple of posts on this! Might it be
      possible to get a one-post recap on just how the success was
      achieved? Sounds like something that might need to be made part of
      out database, heck if Dick got it....

      TIA!

      Dave

      --- In LX200GPS@y..., "autostaretx" <rseymour@w...> wrote:
      > Prata...
      >
      > I want to THANK YOU for thrashing this procedure out with Clay...
      > last night i tried it (polaris/arcturus and back again...)
      > and, after the Polar Easy (which used those two) and two more
      > cycles of Polaris (adjust tripod to remove half of error),
      > GoTo Arcturus (sync), repeast (i did -not- delay 15 minutes, but
      > my Polaris adjustments probably took over 5 minutes each).
      > Repeat until happy or bored.
      >
      > Finally, a successful polar setup!
      >
      > Thanks (you, too, Clay)
      > --dick
      > p.s. this may mean i have to keep my wooden wedgie...
    • jonmichaelalberts
      Dave, That is a great idea, especially for newbies like me. What would be kewl is if Scott or someone could come up with several checklists (or at least
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 1, 2002
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        Dave,

        That is a great idea, especially for newbies like me. What would be
        kewl is if Scott or someone could come up with several checklists (or
        at least condensed versions) for the various ways to polar align
        (just to help learn anyway). I would do it, but I'm not qualified.
        I don't even have my own "wedgie" yet <bg>

        Michael

        --- In LX200GPS@y..., "linden_dave" <d.birmingham@w...> wrote:
        > Hey,
        >
        > I think I might have missed a couple of posts on this! Might it be
        > possible to get a one-post recap on just how the success was
        > achieved? Sounds like something that might need to be made part of
        > out database, heck if Dick got it....
      • sa_chiz
        Dave, Michael: While I would love to do this, it really needs to be dome by someone with actual Polar alignment experience - I have none. I would be happy to
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 2, 2002
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          Dave, Michael:

          While I would love to do this, it really needs to be dome by someone
          with actual Polar alignment experience - I have none. I would be
          happy to format & post the information, but I have not tried to
          capture it because I don't understand half of it!!!

          Who wants to be our Polar alignment Champion?

          Scott.



          --- In LX200GPS@y..., "jonmichaelalberts" <jonmichaelalberts@y...>
          wrote:
          > Dave,
          >
          > That is a great idea, especially for newbies like me. What would
          be
          > kewl is if Scott or someone could come up with several checklists
          (or
          > at least condensed versions) for the various ways to polar align
          > (just to help learn anyway). I would do it, but I'm not
          qualified.
          > I don't even have my own "wedgie" yet <bg>
          >
          > Michael
          >
          > --- In LX200GPS@y..., "linden_dave" <d.birmingham@w...> wrote:
          > > Hey,
          > >
          > > I think I might have missed a couple of posts on this! Might it
          be
          > > possible to get a one-post recap on just how the success was
          > > achieved? Sounds like something that might need to be made part
          of
          > > out database, heck if Dick got it....
        • linden_dave
          ... someone ... Hey Scott, I think I understand half of it too, that must mean together we DO understand it! When I first saw your last question I misread
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 2, 2002
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            --- In LX200GPS@y..., "sa_chiz" <schizzo@e...> wrote:
            > Dave, Michael:
            >
            > While I would love to do this, it really needs to be dome by
            someone
            > with actual Polar alignment experience - I have none. I would be
            > happy to format & post the information, but I have not tried to
            > capture it because I don't understand half of it!!!
            >
            > Who wants to be our Polar alignment Champion?
            >
            > Scott.

            Hey Scott,

            I think I understand half of it too, that must mean together we DO
            understand it! <g>

            When I first saw your last question I misread it, I thought it
            said "chum..." and that could be me!

            Clear, Dark Skies!

            Dave

            12" f/10 LX200GPS (BeBE) s/n 05008
            Supercharged at ASO by Doc Clay, # 243-2012
            Birmingham Astronomical Center
            N 42° 59' 23.1" / W 083° 46' 29.7"

            "Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity."
            Anonymous
          • Aluizio Prata, Jr.
            Dear Dr. Sherrod: Thanks for your email. I believe now I have a reasonable grip on the iterative process and its rational. By the way, I was also able to
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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              Dear Dr. Sherrod:

              Thanks for your email. I believe now I have a reasonable grip on the iterative
              process and its rational.

              By the way, I was also able to iteratively align on Vega and Polaris, without
              the 15 minutes wait, but I had to try to understand the error and think as I
              iterated (is was not as simple as just halving the error distance).

              During the summer Arcturus will be there, and it is in RA opposition to
              Polaris. The pair can then be used to iterate by halving the error distance
              and acheive under 1 minute error polar alignement incredibly fast (around five
              minutes). With your help I now know that this is particular to the Polaris and
              Arcturus combination. However, it surely is nice to have a very fast procedure
              to use during the summer months.

              Take care,

              Prata

              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Clay Sherrod
              To: LX200GPS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 12:05 AM
              Subject: Re: [LX200GPS] Re: iterative polar alignement procedure


              Hello Prata - just checked my messages (it's 2:03 am)....and curiously I just came in from an exhausting two hours of iterative alignment on a 16" scope, using Vega as my standard....AND my 15-minute interval.

              Turning out just beautifully. I thought about cutting the sequence time short, but golly when you have done it this way for 12 years and it works - why change!

              About one more hour and this scope will be locked down tight!

              Dr. Clay


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Aluizio Prata, Jr.
              To: LX200GPS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:18 PM
              Subject: Re: [LX200GPS] Re: iterative polar alignement procedure



              Thanks Dr. Sherrod. You can be assured that I will try out your
              recommendation.

              Take care,

              Prata

              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Clay Sherrod
              To: LX200GPS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [LX200GPS] Re: iterative polar alignement procedure


              One last comment on this until we beat this horse senseless....

              The 15-minute tracking on your target star in my opinion is vital for precise alignment. Sure you can do it quicker, but where is the sky going in 15 minutes....it will still be there and your alignment will be all the better.

              You CAN achieve alignment through the iterative method without the delay of 15 minutes before iterations, but you will most definitely achieve BETTER alignment for your location if you merely take your time and do it the right way!

              Dr. Clay


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: tbhausen
              To: LX200GPS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 6:30 PM
              Subject: [LX200GPS] Re: iterative polar alignement procedure


              --- In LX200GPS@y..., "Aluizio Prata, Jr." <prata@u...> wrote:

              > By the way, Prof Covington has an interesting paper on
              >
              > precisely this subject at:
              >
              > http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/astro/iterating.pdf

              Very good link there--thank you. I'll be trying it.

              Todd
              Warsaw, IN


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            • Aluizio Prata, Jr.
              Thanks for your email. Did you do anything else special to your scope to get the 2 arcminutes pointing error? I sometimes get as bad as 4 arcminutes pointing
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                Thanks for your email. Did you do anything else special
                to your scope to get the 2 arcminutes pointing error? I
                sometimes get as bad as 4 arcminutes pointing error, and
                I am getting greedy...

                Also, why did you have to unclamp/clam the RA, as opposed
                to just synchronizing again? Am I missing something here?

                Prata

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: autostaretx
                To: LX200GPS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:58 AM
                Subject: [LX200GPS] Re: iterative polar alignement procedure.. WOW


                Prata...

                I want to THANK YOU for thrashing this procedure out with Clay...
                last night i tried it (polaris/arcturus and back again...)
                and, after the Polar Easy (which used those two) and two more
                cycles of Polaris (adjust tripod to remove half of error),
                GoTo Arcturus (sync), repeast (i did -not- delay 15 minutes, but
                my Polaris adjustments probably took over 5 minutes each).
                Repeat until happy or bored.

                the rest of my evening's targets arrived consistently within a
                2 arcmin circle.
                At first that circle was in the lower left (i.e scope arrived
                5 arcmin north, 10 arcmin east, of target), but i unclamped and
                reclamped the RA axis to remove that consistent "east" part.
                After that, things arrived centered RA wise.
                Everywhere: Capella, Pollux, Procyon, Spica, Arcturus, Vega, Mizar.
                I didn't nee to sync for the rest of the evening.

                Finally, a successful polar setup!

                (frosting on the cake: an ISS pass, in Polar, which did NOT require
                continuous, frantic slewing... it actually stayed in the 20 arcmin
                field of view for up to ten seconds at a time, with only tiny burps
                of speed-6 to keep it there... until i lost it near the pole)

                Thanks (you, too, Clay)
                --dick
                p.s. this may mean i have to keep my wooden wedgie...


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              • autostaretx
                ... I -chose- to do the unclamp/clamp, since every GoTo across the entire sky (N, S, E, W) was off by a consistent amount -in RA only-. Unclamp/clamp is the
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                  --- In LX200GPS@y..., "Aluizio Prata, Jr." <prata@u...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks for your email. Did you do anything else special
                  > to your scope to get the 2 arcminutes pointing error? I
                  > sometimes get as bad as 4 arcminutes pointing error, and
                  > I am getting greedy...
                  >
                  > Also, why did you have to unclamp/clam the RA, as opposed
                  > to just synchronizing again? Am I missing something here?

                  I -chose- to do the unclamp/clamp, since every GoTo
                  across the entire sky (N, S, E, W) was off by a consistent amount
                  -in RA only-. Unclamp/clamp is the quietest way to adjust
                  that without otherwise disturbing operations.

                  If i had used SYNC in the East, it may have had a deleterious
                  effect in the North or West.

                  I'm a firm believer in using a technique which seems appropriate
                  for the situation at hand. If my pointing errors had involved a
                  DEC or variable factor, i would not have used unclamp/clamp.

                  have fun
                  --dick
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