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Re: [LPD] Cruising Tom Szasz

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  • ron jordan
    Jim,When you whack a kid on his bottom, it does seem to get his attention. Since this has become illegal, there is lately an epidemic of Attention Deficit
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2005
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      Jim,

      When you whack a kid on his bottom, it does seem to get his attention. Since this
      has become illegal, there is lately an epidemic of Attention Deficit Disorder.

      It should be clear to most which deficit is
      causing which disorder, but its easier to just
      put the kids on pills.

      After Dubya makes abortion illegal, over regulated parents will have no way out what so ever. I should buy a ton of Ritalin stock shortly after that critical supreme court appointment.

      Ron



      -----Original Message-----
      From: jim e larsen
      Sent: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:33:55 -0700
      To: LPD@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [LPD] Cruising Tom Szasz

      Disciplining kids is verboten, bad for their self estine, but there is
      nothing wrong with hooking them on drugs at their tender ages. Warming
      a bottom or a slap on the side of the head - to get their attention -
      will get you in front of the judge.

      Jim



      JOIN the Libertarian Party of Delaware today. Call 302-659-1920 or visit http://www.de.lp.org
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    • Doris Gordon
      ... Since this ... Disorder. ... way out what so ever. I should buy a ton of Ritalin stock shortly after that critical supreme court appointment. ... I hope
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2005
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        > Jim,
        >
        > When you whack a kid on his bottom, it does seem to get his attention.
        Since this
        > has become illegal, there is lately an epidemic of Attention Deficit
        Disorder.
        >
        > It should be clear to most which deficit is
        > causing which disorder, but its easier to just
        > put the kids on pills.
        >
        > After Dubya makes abortion illegal, over regulated parents will have no
        way out what so ever. I should buy a ton of Ritalin stock shortly after that
        critical supreme court appointment.
        >
        > Ron

        I hope you did not mean to imply that government irrationality is a sound
        reason for supporting Roe v. Wade.

        Or did you? :(

        Doris Gordon, Libertarians for Life
        LFL's Web site: http://www.L4L.org
        We use philosophy and science to show why
        abortion is a wrong -- an injustice -- not a right
      • Rachael VerNooy
        Jim and Ron, Are you saying it s okay to hit kids? Yes, I agree with you that it would be great to have government stay out of parenting. And I agree with you
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 1, 2005
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          Jim and Ron,

          Are you saying it's okay to hit kids?

          Yes, I agree with you that it would be great to have government stay
          out of parenting. And I agree with you that Ritalin and similar drugs
          are generally a bad idea!

          However, libertarians do generally support laws against adults
          physically attacking each other, except in self-defense, right?
          Shouldn't we also support the government in preventing people from
          physically attacking kids?

          We are the party that says "I do not believe in or advocate the
          initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social goals."
          I don't think we should advocate the initiation of force as a means of
          achieving personal goals either, and for the same reasons: it's often
          ineffective in the long run, and it's morally wrong to have a society
          ruled by "might makes right."

          Rachael VerNooy
        • jim e larsen
          Rachel Attacking and discipline are two different things. Having been a child once I tend to agree with Dr. Laura, kids are savages that need taming. At a
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 1, 2005
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            Rachel


            Attacking and discipline are two different things. Having been a child
            once I tend to agree with Dr. Laura, kids are savages that need taming.
            At a tender age my father explained it to me in simple terms - sometimes
            you must hit a mule with a 2 x 4 to get his attention. Part of growing
            up is testing limits.

            Main's Law - for every action there is an opposite and equal government
            program!

            The government-bureaucratic solution is ritalin. Does making zombies out
            of kids teach them limits? At what age do they stop taking ritalin?
            What happens then?

            Jim





            On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:03:25 -0400 Rachael VerNooy
            <rachael.vernooy@...> writes:
            > Jim and Ron,
            >
            > Are you saying it's okay to hit kids?
            >
            > Yes, I agree with you that it would be great to have government stay
            >
            > out of parenting. And I agree with you that Ritalin and similar
            > drugs
            > are generally a bad idea!
            >
            > However, libertarians do generally support laws against adults
            > physically attacking each other, except in self-defense, right?
            > Shouldn't we also support the government in preventing people from
            > physically attacking kids?
            >
            > We are the party that says "I do not believe in or advocate the
            > initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social
            > goals."
            > I don't think we should advocate the initiation of force as a means
            > of
            > achieving personal goals either, and for the same reasons: it's
            > often
            > ineffective in the long run, and it's morally wrong to have a
            > society
            > ruled by "might makes right."
            >
            > Rachael VerNooy
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > --------------------~-->
            > <font face=arial size=-1><a
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            540/D=groups/S=1705060169:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1122908986/A=2894321/R=0/SIG=11d
            vsfulr/*http://youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1992
            > ">Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk
            > back!</a>.</font>
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

            >
            >
            > JOIN the Libertarian Party of Delaware today. Call 302-659-1920 or
            > visit http://www.de.lp.org
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • ron jordan
            Jim,Since you asked the age specs for Ritalin, be advised:The growing epidemic of Attention Deficit Disorder, thought to be essentially pediatric, may have
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 1, 2005
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              Jim,

              Since you asked the age specs for Ritalin,
              be advised:

              The growing epidemic of Attention Deficit
              Disorder, thought to be essentially pediatric, may have uncovered yet another epidemic of Adult Attention Deficit Disorder.

              Hope this answers your question about the
              age at which the kids stop taking Ritalin.

              It will soon be somewhere around your age,
              but only if it significantly inteferes with the anti- senile dimentia drugs.

              Otherwise today's kids are likely to be buried with a bottle somewhere in there with the usual shopping bag full of prescription meds that everyone else has
              at your age.

              So at least they'll get the full benefit of enlightened gubmit sponsored child rearing and only an extra life long bottle or three by the time they're your age.

              Ron



              -----Original Message-----
              From: jim e larsen
              Sent: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:40:56 -0700
              To: LPD@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [LPD] hitting kids (was: Cruising Tom Szasz)

              Rachel


              Attacking and discipline are two different things. Having been a child
              once I tend to agree with Dr. Laura, kids are savages that need taming.
              At a tender age my father explained it to me in simple terms - sometimes
              you must hit a mule with a 2 x 4 to get his attention. Part of growing
              up is testing limits.

              Main's Law - for every action there is an opposite and equal government
              program!

              The government-bureaucratic solution is ritalin. Does making zombies out
              of kids teach them limits? At what age do they stop taking ritalin?
              What happens then?

              Jim





              On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:03:25 -0400 Rachael VerNooy
              <rachael.vernooy@...> writes:
              > Jim and Ron,
              >
              > Are you saying it's okay to hit kids?
              >
              > Yes, I agree with you that it would be great to have government stay
              >
              > out of parenting. And I agree with you that Ritalin and similar
              > drugs
              > are generally a bad idea!
              >
              > However, libertarians do generally support laws against adults
              > physically attacking each other, except in self-defense, right?
              > Shouldn't we also support the government in preventing people from
              > physically attacking kids?
              >
              > We are the party that says "I do not believe in or advocate the
              > initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social
              > goals."
              > I don't think we should advocate the initiation of force as a means
              > of
              > achieving personal goals either, and for the same reasons: it's
              > often
              > ineffective in the long run, and it's morally wrong to have a
              > society
              > ruled by "might makes right."
              >
              > Rachael VerNooy
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > --------------------~-->
              > <font face=arial size=-1><a
              >
              href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hn9dhfg/M=362329.6886306.7839369.3040
              540/D=groups/S=1705060169:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1122908986/A=2894321/R=0/SIG=11d
              vsfulr/*http://youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1992
              > ">Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk
              > back!</a>.</font>
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

              >
              >
              > JOIN the Libertarian Party of Delaware today. Call 302-659-1920 or
              > visit http://www.de.lp.org
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              JOIN the Libertarian Party of Delaware today. Call 302-659-1920 or visit http://www.de.lp.org
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Rachael VerNooy
              I completely agree that forcing kids to take Ritalin is a bad idea. Forced medication, for people of any age who are committing no crime, is wrong.
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 2, 2005
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                I completely agree that forcing kids to take Ritalin is a bad idea.
                Forced medication, for people of any age who are committing no crime,
                is wrong. Furthermore, if teachers are finding that many of their
                students "need" Ritalin, they should be looking elsewhere for
                solutions. I personally don't think the government should force kids to
                go to school, but if they do, they should limit their force to
                schoolwork and not interfere with children's biochemistry.

                Szasz is on the right track when he advocates patients being a charge
                of their "treatment" and requiring patient consent for hospitalization
                and medication.

                I can see we disagree somewhat on child-rearing ideas, but that's
                off-topic for this list...

                Rachael
              • ron jordan
                Rachael,The teacher s union probably has the administration of Ritalin written into their job description.The People wish to continue with their rite to
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 2, 2005
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                  Rachael,

                  The teacher's union probably has the administration of Ritalin written into their job description.

                  The People wish to continue with their rite
                  to free gubmit baby sitting. Its understandable that anyone might want
                  their undisciplined kids out of the house.
                  To a growing extent their kids come home from school pacified with various psycho-
                  tropic drugs. This is simply regarded a welcome extension of the free gubmit service.

                  You must admit that this does avoid the
                  barbarism of spanking, and is generally
                  thought of as the progressive and responsible thing to do.

                  You should realize that half of the children
                  are aborted, and the remaining half are basically institutionalized i.e. public schooled, with a growing number being placed on psycho-tropic drugs. Modern institutionalization itself likely depends on
                  drug induced compliance, when punishment has fallen so far out of fashion.
                  Ask any teacher or prison guard, and they
                  will tell you that they could not do theirs jobs with out it.........

                  Its the way that soccer moms prefer to live
                  their lives, and soccer moms are a formidable voting block in real politics.

                  Lexapro stock is a fine investment, and Dr.
                  Szasz is generally regarded as a flake by
                  the psychiatric industrial complex. Conversely, Tom Cruise is good looking.
                  The soccer moms might listen to half of what he has to say for a week, and ignore
                  the fact that he is a prominent cult member.

                  Ron


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Rachael VerNooy
                  Sent: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:59:47 -0700
                  To: LPD@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [LPD] kids, ritalin, mental "illness"

                  I completely agree that forcing kids to take Ritalin is a bad idea.
                  Forced medication, for people of any age who are committing no crime,
                  is wrong. Furthermore, if teachers are finding that many of their
                  students "need" Ritalin, they should be looking elsewhere for
                  solutions. I personally don't think the government should force kids to
                  go to school, but if they do, they should limit their force to
                  schoolwork and not interfere with children's biochemistry.

                  Szasz is on the right track when he advocates patients being a charge
                  of their "treatment" and requiring patient consent for hospitalization
                  and medication.

                  I can see we disagree somewhat on child-rearing ideas, but that's
                  off-topic for this list...

                  Rachael




                  JOIN the Libertarian Party of Delaware today. Call 302-659-1920 or visit http://www.de.lp.org
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
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