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colonizing regions with incompatible terrain

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  • stevenmathers
    can a sea power colonize a desert region and thus make it friendly? what about if it was depopulated first? i.e. go in, kill/drive out all the natives, then
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 2, 2005
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      can a sea power colonize a desert region and thus make it friendly?

      what about if it was depopulated first?

      i.e. go in, kill/drive out all the natives, then settle the coast with
      friendly population leaving a bare interior?
    • Matt Holy
      ... It depends on how strict an interpretation your GM is reading from this ... The maximum control status your Nation can achieve in a region will be the
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 3, 2005
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        > can a sea power colonize a desert region and thus make it friendly? what
        > about if it was depopulated first? i.e. go in, kill/drive out all the
        > natives, then settle the coast with friendly population leaving a bare
        > interior?

        It depends on how strict an interpretation your GM is reading from this
        statement:

        -----
        The maximum control status your Nation can achieve in a region will be the
        lower of the two statuses as determined from the following tables:

        Table 2.2. Maximum Region Status by Religion
        Table 2.3. Maximum Region Status by Terrain
        -----

        The base interpretation would indicate that the highest status a Seafaring
        nation can ever *achieve* over a desert region is Non-Paying Tributary, no
        matter how that status is achieved.

        However, I rarely see the full interpretation being used. Usually
        Colonization is something that gets you to full Friendly Status,
        regardless of table 2-3.

        I'd ask your specific GM to be sure, though.

        --Matt
      • stevenmathers
        my interpretation is that the terrain type is a mix of cultural type and geography, with cultural type the most important factor. cultiavted just means that
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 3, 2005
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          my interpretation is that the 'terrain type' is a mix of cultural
          type and geography, with cultural type the most important factor.

          cultiavted just means that a lot of the population lives in large
          urban centres, whereas in wilderness means they dont (tribal
          culture). It doesnt say what the underlying geography is like. on
          the other hand, you have desert, steppe and mountainous. here,
          geography is important, but also culture - desert and steppe are
          nomadic cultures and mountainous is tribal.

          saying that steppe cultures will never be fully integrated to a
          seafaring culture makes perfect sense. saying that an uninhabited
          desert with coastal regions cant support seafaring cities doesnt
          make as much sense. the much reduced agro and taxation factors take
          account of the fact that the seafaring cities arent going to produce
          much in the way of food and regional population.



          --- In LOTE-L@yahoogroups.com, Matt Holy <holyman@b...> wrote:
          >
          > > can a sea power colonize a desert region and thus make it
          friendly? what
          > > about if it was depopulated first? i.e. go in, kill/drive out
          all the
          > > natives, then settle the coast with friendly population leaving
          a bare
          > > interior?
          >
          > It depends on how strict an interpretation your GM is reading from
          this
          > statement:
          >
          > -----
          > The maximum control status your Nation can achieve in a region
          will be the
          > lower of the two statuses as determined from the following tables:
          >
          > Table 2.2. Maximum Region Status by Religion
          > Table 2.3. Maximum Region Status by Terrain
          > -----
          >
          > The base interpretation would indicate that the highest status a
          Seafaring
          > nation can ever *achieve* over a desert region is Non-Paying
          Tributary, no
          > matter how that status is achieved.
          >
          > However, I rarely see the full interpretation being used. Usually
          > Colonization is something that gets you to full Friendly Status,
          > regardless of table 2-3.
          >
          > I'd ask your specific GM to be sure, though.
          >
          > --Matt
        • Matt Holy
          ... If your interpretation is correct, then yes, wiping out a population (the cultural factor) would change the terrain restrictions. I m not so sure that s an
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 3, 2005
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            > my interpretation is that the 'terrain type' is a mix of cultural
            > type and geography, with cultural type the most important factor.

            If your interpretation is correct, then yes, wiping out a population (the
            cultural factor) would change the terrain restrictions. I'm not so sure
            that's an accurate interpretation, however.

            > saying that steppe cultures will never be fully integrated to a
            > seafaring culture makes perfect sense. saying that an uninhabited
            > desert with coastal regions cant support seafaring cities doesnt
            > make as much sense. the much reduced agro and taxation factors take
            > account of the fact that the seafaring cities arent going to produce
            > much in the way of food and regional population.

            Seafaring nations can put a city on any type of coastline, regardless of
            terrain, and said city will be friendly to said seafaring nation. I
            thought you were talking about the desert /Region/ itself, which will have
            no bearing on the Status of the city.

            And it does make sense if you look at Status as a nation's ability to
            control a given region. If you just want to simulate coastal populations
            of an empty desert region, I think you do that with a coastal city.

            If you want to populate an entire region with friendly natives, those
            natives will naturally adopt the 'culture' of the terrain type (Steppe,
            Desert, Mountain). They will cease being Seafaring when they no longer
            interact with the sea.

            Also, this is one of the few disadvantages to being a Seafaring nation:
            limited ability to control non-cultivated, non-island regions. If you
            eliminate that disadvantage, being a Seafaring Culture is a no-brainer,
            and I think there should be gives and takes to each culture type. Not one
            that is better across the board (At least not until you hit the
            Ren-Industrial cultures).

            --Matt
          • sstricklin1138
            ... you ... brainer, ... Not one ... I noticed this as well, so added some additional restrictions. Namely, if any of the following states exists for two
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 3, 2005
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              --- In LOTE-L@yahoogroups.com, Matt Holy <holyman@b...> wrote:
              > Also, this is one of the few disadvantages to being a Seafaring
              nation:
              > limited ability to control non-cultivated, non-island regions. If
              you
              > eliminate that disadvantage, being a Seafaring Culture is a no-
              brainer,
              > and I think there should be gives and takes to each culture type.
              Not one
              > that is better across the board (At least not until you hit the
              > Ren-Industrial cultures).


              I noticed this as well, so added some additional restrictions.
              Namely, if any of the following states exists for two consecutive -
              turns the Seafaring nation reverts to a Civilized one:

              - A control status in any land-locked region or city.
              - More than half of its controlled regions do not have a port city.
              - The total GPv of its regions is greater than the total GPv of its
              cities.
              - A Warship Quality Rating that is equal to or lower than its
              Infantry, Cavalry, or Siege Quality Ratings.
            • stevenmathers
              yeah, that makes sense. ... cultural ... population (the ... sure ... uninhabited ... take ... produce ... regardless of ... I ... will have ... to ...
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 4, 2005
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                yeah, that makes sense.

                --- In LOTE-L@yahoogroups.com, Matt Holy <holyman@b...> wrote:
                >
                > > my interpretation is that the 'terrain type' is a mix of
                cultural
                > > type and geography, with cultural type the most important factor.
                >
                > If your interpretation is correct, then yes, wiping out a
                population (the
                > cultural factor) would change the terrain restrictions. I'm not so
                sure
                > that's an accurate interpretation, however.
                >
                > > saying that steppe cultures will never be fully integrated to a
                > > seafaring culture makes perfect sense. saying that an
                uninhabited
                > > desert with coastal regions cant support seafaring cities doesnt
                > > make as much sense. the much reduced agro and taxation factors
                take
                > > account of the fact that the seafaring cities arent going to
                produce
                > > much in the way of food and regional population.
                >
                > Seafaring nations can put a city on any type of coastline,
                regardless of
                > terrain, and said city will be friendly to said seafaring nation.
                I
                > thought you were talking about the desert /Region/ itself, which
                will have
                > no bearing on the Status of the city.
                >
                > And it does make sense if you look at Status as a nation's ability
                to
                > control a given region. If you just want to simulate coastal
                populations
                > of an empty desert region, I think you do that with a coastal city.
                >
                > If you want to populate an entire region with friendly natives,
                those
                > natives will naturally adopt the 'culture' of the terrain type
                (Steppe,
                > Desert, Mountain). They will cease being Seafaring when they no
                longer
                > interact with the sea.
                >
                > Also, this is one of the few disadvantages to being a Seafaring
                nation:
                > limited ability to control non-cultivated, non-island regions. If
                you
                > eliminate that disadvantage, being a Seafaring Culture is a no-
                brainer,
                > and I think there should be gives and takes to each culture type.
                Not one
                > that is better across the board (At least not until you hit the
                > Ren-Industrial cultures).
                >
                > --Matt
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