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Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install

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  • linuxducks
    Hi Jim ... you might want to read, to get fully caught up, through the articles at my forum here..... Does Windows 8 Secure Boot Block Linux Dual Boot
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 6, 2013
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      Hi Jim ... you might want to read, to get fully caught up, through the articles at my forum here.....
       
      Let me be a dramatical alarmist saying ouch! It is computer suicide to attempt to intall Linux as dual boot on a Windows 8 PC. (disregard).
      That is found as not true but there are things that can go terribly wrong. If familiar with Windows PC security, the new technologies in Windows 8 have replaced BIOS altogether and cause the signed operating system to launch only – and this is solely because of bootkits and rootkits malware that run before traditional antimalware starts protection on bootup and thus are virtually always able to hide themselves from detection. Of course on Vista no rootkit has ever been able to run on it with UAC on as recommended (mandatory for security). I did not see this as improvement as was cracked already before Windows 8 even hit the street! http://www.crn.com/news/security/231903295/windows-8-boot-security-cracked.htm;jsessionid=NZjzL4QedChUWf+VUz6Tyg**.ecappj02
       
      So point is that this can be turned off (not recommended) but there is solutions now apparently in place. I too have a Windows 8 PC but a seperate Linux Netbook. I have endeavored to get to a dual boot with Windows 8 but am tardy to date. So i can not give first hand help from experience but I was well read on it. 
       
      Basically at the end of all the cursing and petitions and the rest of all the arguments, Linux had moved even for the secure key to be able to boot. ....
      Linux Foundation UEFI Secure Boot key for Windows 8 PCs delays explained
      ZDNet http://www.zdnet.com/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-key-for-windows-8-pcs-delays-explained-7000007841/
      Despite the best efforts of Fedora, openSUSE, Ubuntu, and the Linux Foundation, booting Linux on UEFI Secure Boot Windows 8 PCs continues to be a problem . The easiest way to avoid Windows 8 lock-in is to disable UEFI Secure Boot from your system ...
       
      You may want to just jump to turning off the Win8 secure boot technology (not recommended) and go from there or read Updated....
       
      Hurrah! Linux can now run on UEFI Windows 8 PCs
      Computerworld (blog) http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux-and-unix/21768/hurrah-linux-can-now-run-uefi-windows-8-pcs-itbwcw
      The Linux Foundation is happy to announce that its Secure Boot System allows most PCs with pre-installed Windows 8 to boot Linux. It gets around the UEFI key requirement to permit the open-source kernel to get started. Surprisingly, the work was done ...

       
       
      Two Ubuntu Linux versions can now work with Secure Boot
      PCWorld http://www.pcworld.com/article/2028388/two-ubuntu-linux-versions-can-now-work-with-secure-boot.html
      We've already seen major distribution updates such as Fedora 18 include technology to enable booting on Windows 8 Secure Boot hardware, but only last week—after considerable delay—did the Linux Foundation release its Linux Foundation Secure Boot ...
       
      Secure boot loader now available to allow Linux to work on Windows 8 PCs
      PCWorld http://www.pcworld.com/article/2027864/secure-boot-loader-now-available-to-allow-linux-to-work-on-windows-8-pcs.html
      "The Linux Foundation wishes not only to enable Linux to keep booting in the face of the new wave of secure boot systems, but also to enable those technically savvy users who wish to do so to actually take control of the secure boot process by ...
       
      I do not how you arrived so far but if you were unaware of the previous debacle I hope there is not irreperable damages. Since you have not (unwisely) apparently created an Emergency CD Repair CD/DVD for Windows 8 PC (Install, reinstall Windows) there are still options to restore it right from the desktop if there has been un-doable changes to like uninstall linux and reinstall it properly to have it working and Windows 8 properly and as recommended. I have a Yahoo Group for Windows 8 if you need help with that here...
       

      Windows8Club Yahoo Group

      Windows 8 PC Help Club

      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Windows8Club/

      RSS https://groups.google.com/forum/feed/windows-8-club/msgs/rss.xml?num=15

      Jump to...

      How to restore, refresh, or reset your PC - Microsoft Windows Help
      Learn how to reset your PC to its original condition, or refresh it without deleting any of your personal files.
       
      gerald philly pa usa
       

       
       
      Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 2:00 PM
      Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
       


      I recently got a Lenovo  G580 laptop...nice ...no touch screen.  I then proceeded to install Linux Mint 13 "alongside windows."  Install went about a nice as possible.  I then rebooted as usual and the grub menu showed up as usual. Selected Linux Mint and that went ok, too. Everything worked liked a charm....you know by now something is coming. I then decided to shutdown and when I got the grub menu and selected Windows and I got an error message about configuration error....wanted me to get the installation disk and select "repair."  Unfortunetly there were not any...they are on a partition on the hard drive.  So I brought up the bios setup and looked at the drives....legacy vs something that begins  with "e" (default). So I turned the setup to legacy last (I think) and got
      windows to show up.  That's the way it stands now.  If you need details let me know.
      Jim

       
    • linuxducks
      If you wish to start over..... How to Uninstall or Remove Windows 8 From Your Dual-Boot Setup So far we have shown you how to setup a classic dual-boot for
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 7, 2013
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        If you wish to start over.....
         
        How to Uninstall or Remove Windows 8 From Your Dual-Boot Setup
         
        So far we have shown you how to setup a classic dual-boot for Windows 8, and we even showed you how to do it without creating a new partition. If you still are not sold on the new version of Windows, here i’s how to remove it entirely....
        http://www.howtogeek.com/75878/how-to-uninstall-or-remove-windows-8-from-your-dual-boot-setup/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=041011&utm_content=emailsidebar
         
        gerald philly pa usa
         
         
        Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 2:00 PM
        Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
         


        I recently got a Lenovo  G580 laptop...nice ...no touch screen.  I then proceeded to install Linux Mint 13 "alongside windows."  Install went about a nice as possible.  I then rebooted as usual and the grub menu showed up as usual. Selected Linux Mint and that went ok, too. Everything worked liked a charm....you know by now something is coming. I then decided to shutdown and when I got the grub menu and selected Windows and I got an error message about configuration error....wanted me to get the installation disk and select "repair."  Unfortunetly there were not any...they are on a partition on the hard drive.  So I brought up the bios setup and looked at the drives....legacy vs something that begins  with "e" (default). So I turned the setup to legacy last (I think) and got
        windows to show up.  That's the way it stands now.  If you need details let me know.
        Jim

         
      • linuxducks
        This has all the pictures... Good step by step graphic Tutorial. How to Use Refresh and Reset in Windows 8 to Easily Reinstall Your PC Sick of formatting? Then
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 7, 2013
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          This has all the pictures... Good step by step graphic Tutorial.
           
          How to Use Refresh and Reset in Windows 8 to Easily Reinstall Your PC
          Sick of formatting? Then learn how to breathe new life into your
          machines without formatting using the new Refresh and Reset features
          present in Windows 8. ....
           
          Now this works as I have had to perform it once already on mine. Works flawlessly like a charm as expected. I am only recommending this as apparently it seems somehow you went ahead and cold-cokked installed Linux as dual boot with Windows 8. This can lead to a disaster if you were not aware of the new secure boot technologies in Windows 8, and is a real wonder how you possibly could have achieved this - and could have only if you had disabled that, is the only way you could have gotten this far with Linux actually booting on the dual boot machine.  Did you disable Windows secure Boot – 8? Then question is who did? It is possible some less than genuine manufacturer has moved to circumvent this and release the Windows PC without protection enabled as a quote convenience to the user – which would leave your brand new latest Windows OS in the stone age as an Windows XP machine without protections offered since then.
           
          I strongly! recommend that you wipe the disk by easily in-place reinstalling Windows 8 and start from scratch! As well I strongly recommend the Resetting as opposed to refreshing, as will guarantee the closest to actually reinstalling Windows from CD/DVD disk. You will be presented with a list of your apps/softwares that were uninstalled when done and ready to go. You can easily reinstall these then. Make sure to FIRST back up any personal files, documents, media files etc you wish to keep and any important Liscense numbers like of softwares or antimalware programs you will need to download and reinstall – must have the product liscense number. Didn’t keep a copy? Open them now and write them down to have them.
           
          With Windows 8 back I would then proceed to Tutorials and How Tos of how to officially properly install Linux as a dual boot and very particularly here with Windows 8, as this new procedure has NEVER occurred before. History has been changed. I am strongly recommending this as having used Windows over 10 years on XP, Vista to 8. You know better if you are a veteran. In short, if this was not performed properly (installing dual boot), and since you do not have a Recovery CD, there is a STRONG chance you may corrupt the Windows OS (operating system) beyong being able to even log in and attempt to rinstall it from in-place Refresh or Reset. Without the Recovery CD in other words and you can not log in – you will have no way to reinstall Windows if necessary. It could be possible from that point to attempt to just wipe the disk entirely installing Linux, but you have lost Windows forever – as your preference is a dual boot system.
           
          INSTALL THIS AS EXTRA SAFEGUARD TO ACCESS WINDOWS ( I did, works like a charm)....
           
          How to Make the F8 Key Work for Safe Mode in Windows 8
          Booting into safe mode became non-trivial in Windows 8, especially if you were accustomed to the old F8 shortcut. Here is how to get F8 working again.
          Note: we aren’t necessary recommending that everybody make this change – we are just showing that it is still an option. You can alternatively use some of the new Windows 8 features to fix your computer instead. ....

          http://www.howtogeek.com/164001/how-to-make-the-f8-key-work-for-safe-mode-in-windows-8/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=270513
           
          (Save this command to a text pad file if you wish to remove, you will see this in tutorial)......

           
          RESET/REMOVE SAFE MODE - COMMAND PROMPT
           
          bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy standard
           
           
          gerald philly pa usa
           
           
           
           
          Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 2:00 PM
          Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
           


          I recently got a Lenovo  G580 laptop...nice ...no touch screen.  I then proceeded to install Linux Mint 13 "alongside windows."  Install went about a nice as possible.  I then rebooted as usual and the grub menu showed up as usual. Selected Linux Mint and that went ok, too. Everything worked liked a charm....you know by now something is coming. I then decided to shutdown and when I got the grub menu and selected Windows and I got an error message about configuration error....wanted me to get the installation disk and select "repair."  Unfortunetly there were not any...they are on a partition on the hard drive.  So I brought up the bios setup and looked at the drives....legacy vs something that begins  with "e" (default). So I turned the setup to legacy last (I think) and got
          windows to show up.  That's the way it stands now.  If you need details let me know.
          Jim

        • C. Beck
          ... and cold-cokked installed Linux as dual boot with Windows 8. [....] Did you disable Windows secure Boot û 8? Then question is who did? It is possible some
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 8, 2013
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            On Sep 7, 2013 4:39 PM, <g.linuxducks@...> wrote:
            >I am only recommending this as apparently it seems somehow you went ahead and cold-cokked installed Linux as dual boot with Windows 8. [....] Did you disable Windows secure Boot – 8? Then question is who did? It is possible some less than genuine manufacturer has moved to circumvent this and release the Windows PC without protection enabled as a quote convenience to the user – which would leave your brand new latest Windows OS in the stone age as an Windows XP machine without protections offered since then.
            >  

            Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages of fear without at least citing your source. It would be nice also if the source were fact-based rather than op.ed.

            > I strongly! recommend that you wipe the disk by easily in-place reinstalling Windows 8 and start from scratch!

            If the bios is in legacy mode, how is reinstalling Windows going to change anything?  It also seems to me that if there is software broken, it would be the boot-OS that needs a firmware update rather than a problem with Windows. 

          • linuxducks
            I wrote what I did from the security stand point that with the Windows OS installed û the major security technologies (secure boot) were circumvented as
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 9, 2013
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              I wrote what I did from the security stand point that with the Windows OS installed – the major security technologies (secure boot) were circumvented as turned off. The information I posted is ENTIRELY based on fact and indeed am one of the sources along with all the others, professional and expert, easily googled or if you want them I will post to you.  I do not subscribe to FUD as you say (Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages) and never will. FUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt 
               
              That was your opinion (Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages) - and NOT welcomed. If you would like to cite your souces that any content of my emails are this? Computer security by all users is to be a priority on any system as expounded on by OS’s and the government and ISPs and on and on - and as Linux sources in general now advise at least using ClamAV to strip off/quarantine/delete any windows malware that may be sent from a Linux machine as well.
               
              What I wrote IN context is as I would do realizing things about the current set up. That is to reinstall Windows the new Win8 way and have it reset to including the secure boot technologies. This is actually and virtually entire reality that this is the only real area currently that Windows has a security edge over Linux with Vista and Win8 that do not allow and block rootkits/bootkits from running. They can run on Linux. Rootkits are the second worst computer threat behind botnets and usually always require wiping the disk and reinstalling the OS (operating system) as the only cure. Rarely do anti-rootkit utilites do much more than dectect as even opposed to actually removing rootkits.
               
              So my whole point was if the user wanted to maintain as recommended a secure system and computer then to do it from scratch first setting up windows properly as recommended by professionals and experts and gov and isp and etc etc etc. If you are against all that for simple convenience of use etc etc etc, maybe you should not promote circumventing operating systems security technologies from the too familiar relaxed lazy and apathetic attituded too prevalent in the community so many now speak against as is injurious to the community.
               
              You have Linus Torvalds as credited as principal founder of Linux with Canonical (Ubuntu) and then countless others who have gone through the process with all the time and money of making Linux dual-bootable with Windows 8 (even including petitions that circulated from others) – and why would they do this if it was “spreading doom and dread messages” to quote you? Is Linus Torvalds and Canonical and the rest of the Linux Foundation etc etc etc spreading doom and dread messages in making available Linux with secure boot compatible with Windows 8 now? Even Linux servers are using it as SuSe for one. These are FUD? If it was FUD why has the Linux Foundation even bothered a second look?
               
              My replies to the user where that I strongly recommend he start over and set up his computer as recommended with ALL security features in place. Advising security is NOT FUD! It is a mega billion dollar industry of and intregal part of the world wide web. I posted the link (my forum string) to many, many, many of the professionals articles dealing with Linux secure boot with Win8 from the beginning forward that covered the whole controversy as it began. Reading in between the lines allows gaining the knowledge of what is going on and NECESSARY for setting up a Windows 8 PC as dual boot with Linux. You claimed I did not post sources. Did you even bother to read those sources I posted? BELOW IS ONE OF A ZILLION SOURCES OF LINUX SECURE BOOT WITH WINDOWS 8 – GOOGLE THE REST PLEASE...... Thank you for your indulgence before falsely accusin people! ! !
               
              ONE OF MANY....... 
               
              Secure boot loader now available to allow Linux to work on Windows 8 PCs
               
              QUOTED:
               
              "Freeing the way for independent Linux distributions to be installed on Windows 8 computers, the Linux Foundation has released software that will allow Linux to work with computers running the UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) firmware.
               
              The Linux Foundation Secure Boot System solves a fundamental problem for many Linux distributions, by providing a way for a Linux-based OS to run on new hardware controlled by UEFI firmware, also known as "secure-boot" technology.
               
              "The Linux Foundation wishes not only to enable Linux to keep booting in the face of the new wave of secure boot systems, but also to enable those technically savvy users who wish to do so to actually take control of the secure boot process by installing their own platform key," wrote Linux Foundation technical advisory board member James Bottomley, who led the development of the bootloader, in a statement.
               
              As a potential replacement to the long-used BIOS firmware, UEFI is an industry initiative to secure computers against malware by designing the computer's firmware to require a trusted key before booting the operating system, or any hardware inside the computer, such as a graphics card.
               
              UEFI would provide a foundation for a chain of trust that would connect all the way up to the software layer, which could thwart attempts to install illicit, and harmful, software on computers.
               
              Windows 8
              Microsoft requires UEFI on all machines running Windows 8. While OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) have the option of providing a way to turn off UEFI so other OSes can run on the machine, many in the Linux community fear that OEMs will not provide a UEFI off-switch, thereby not allowing other OSes without a key to run on these machines.
               
              A generic Linux distribution will not run on a Windows 8 computer without keys.
               
              "In secure mode ... the platform will only execute EFI binaries signed with a key that is whitelisted in the UEFI secure boot signature database," Bottomley explained.
               
              The latest releases of many major Linux distributions now include a bootloader or a shim of some sort to work with UEFI, including Ubuntu 12.10 and Fedora 18. This UEFI requirement, however, has been seen as a roadblock for those who like to create their own distributions of Linux. The Linux Foundation bootloader provides a hash code, certified by Microsoft, and support infrastructure to boot a generic Linux kernel.
               
              "We have in place a protocol where Microsoft is happy for us to hand off from the initial Microsoft signed EFI binary load to a separately verified EFI binary chain, which the individual distributions control," Bottomley wrote.
               
              Other efforts
              This is not the first approach someone in the Linux camp has devised for working with UEFI. Security developer Matthew Garrett released his own shim last year.
               
              A shim is different from a bootloader even though both override the UEFI security system to load Linux. Garrett's shim is hardcoded to work with a specific generic bootloader, called elilo, that boots the Linux kernel.
               
              UEFI
              The Linux Foundation bootloader, which Bottomley said technically is more of "a preloader," can work with any generic Linux bootloader. "We did this because our mission is to enable any bootloader in the Linux ecosystem to work with secure boot," Bottomley said.
               
              Garrett and Bottomley are discussing the possibility of merging Garrett's shim with the Linux Foundation's bootloader. Garrett helped Bottomley create the bootloader, as did other developers from the Linux Foundation, Red Hat, and Canonical.
               
              UEFI has proved to be a challenge to implement even for Microsoft Windows. Garrett also reported that certain Samsung laptops running Windows 8 could permanently stop working due to a bug in how the Samsung firmware stores system crash data in the UEFI storage space. "
               
              UNQUOTE
               
              PS..... JAMES J., THE USER STARTING THIS HELP STRING, HAS NOT REPLIED AND SAID THAT HE DID NOT WANT THE SECURE BOOT SET UP. IF HE DOES, HE ALSO WROTE HE DID NOT HAVE A RESCUE CD THAT COULD BE USED TO REINSTALL WINDOWS AND START OVER AND THEN INSTALL LINUX PROPERLY AS RECOMMENDED. I GAVE SOURCES/LINKS OF HOW TO DO THAT WITHOUT THE EMERGENCY CD/DVD REPAIR DISK (RESCUE DISK) BY THE BUILT IN NEW TECHNOLIGIES IN WINDOWS 8 – REFRESH AND RESET OPTIONS. IF HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN ALL THAT LET HIM SAY SO. YOU CAN DISABLE THE NEW WIN 8 TECHNOLOGY (SECURE BOOT) AND NOT RECOMMENDED AS WINDOWS USER.
               
              BTW (by the way) IN A DUAL BOOT – LINUX HAS FULL ACCESS TO WINDOWS. THERE IS POSSIBILITY OF CROSS PLATFORM INFECTION IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE. HIGHLY UNLIKELY. IF CYBER CRIME ACHIEVES IT NO DOUBT WILL BE THROUGH A LINUX ROOTKIT. THAT IS A FURTHER REASON I PROMTED ESET FOR LINUX – FULL WINDOWS AND LINUX PROTECTION. HOPEFULLY YOU DO NOT FEEL NOD32 IS FUD?
               
              IF YOU ARE OWNER/MODERATOR OF THIS GROUP PLEASE SAY SO AS YOU HAVE GROUP RULES TO BE ADHERED TO. IF YOU FEEL I PROMOTE FUD I OBVIOUSLY DISAGREE AND CONSIDER THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK BUT THIS IS NOT MY GROUP AND I WELL UNDERSTAND GROUP RULES – VIOLATE AND YOU GET THE BOOT. I FEEL I HAVE AT LEAST SCRATCHED THE SURFACE IN SUPPORTING MY EMAIL POSTS AS HAVING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FUD OR “SPREADING DOOM AND DREAD MESSAGES” AS YOU ACCUSE ME OF. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY YOU SAID THAT ABOUT ALL OF LINUX AND WINDOWS COMBINED AND ARE PROMOTING SPREADING DUMB PILLS THEN. I DO NOT SUSCRIBE TO THAT SCHOOL AT ALL. COMMUNITY WEBSITES AND FORUMS AND GROUPS THAT OFFER FREE TECH HELP DO SO BECAUSE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE AND CAN HELP KNOWING THE COSTS OF NOT-FREE HELP AND ARE IN GENERAL PROMOTING A HEALTHY CLIMTAE FOR THE COMMUNITY OF COMPUTER USERS TO PARTICIPATE IN – NOT SPREADING FEEL GOOD CONVENIENCE AND DUMB PILLS WHEN IT COMES TO THE SAFETY OF ALL THE COMMIUNITY OF COMPUTER USERS OF ALL OPERATING SYSTEMS INCLUDED.
               
              THANK YOU FOR STATING YOUR OWN OPINIONS RATHER THAN ACCUSING OTHERS OPINIONS THAT YOU APPEAR TO NOT HAVE KNOWLEDGE IN WHAT YOU SAID!
               
              gerald philly pa usa
               
               
              From: C. Beck
              Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 9:31 AM
              Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install

              On Sep 7, 2013 4:39 PM, <g.linuxducks@...> wrote:
              >I am only recommending this as apparently it seems somehow you
              went ahead and cold-cokked installed Linux as dual boot with Windows 8. [....] Did you disable Windows secure Boot – 8? Then question is who did? It is possible some less than genuine manufacturer has moved to circumvent this and release the Windows PC without protection enabled as a quote convenience to the user – which would leave your brand new latest Windows OS in the stone age as an Windows XP machine without protections offered since then.

              Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages of fear without at least citing your source. It would be nice also if the source were fact-based rather than op.ed.

              > I strongly! recommend that you wipe the disk by easily in-place

              reinstalling Windows 8 and start from scratch!

              If the bios is in legacy mode, how is reinstalling Windows going to change anything?  It also seems to me that if there is software broken, it would be the boot-OS that needs a firmware update rather than a problem with Windows. 


               
            • Joan Leach
              Today s Distrowatch.com Weekly question has some info on this topic. http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130909#qa Joan in Reno ... installed – the
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 9, 2013
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                Today's Distrowatch.com Weekly question has some info on this topic.

                http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130909#qa

                Joan in Reno


                From: "g.linuxducks@..." <g.linuxducks@...>
                To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 1:34 PM
                Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install

                 
                I wrote what I did from the security stand point that with the Windows OS installed – the major security technologies (secure boot) were circumvented as turned off. The information I posted is ENTIRELY based on fact and indeed am one of the sources along with all the others, professional and expert, easily googled or if you want them I will post to you.  I do not subscribe to FUD as you say (Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages) and never will. FUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt 
                 
                That was your opinion (Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages) - and NOT welcomed. If you would like to cite your souces that any content of my emails are this? Computer security by all users is to be a priority on any system as expounded on by OS’s and the government and ISPs and on and on - and as Linux sources in general now advise at least using ClamAV to strip off/quarantine/delete any windows malware that may be sent from a Linux machine as well.
                 
                What I wrote IN context is as I would do realizing things about the current set up. That is to reinstall Windows the new Win8 way and have it reset to including the secure boot technologies. This is actually and virtually entire reality that this is the only real area currently that Windows has a security edge over Linux with Vista and Win8 that do not allow and block rootkits/bootkits from running. They can run on Linux. Rootkits are the second worst computer threat behind botnets and usually always require wiping the disk and reinstalling the OS (operating system) as the only cure. Rarely do anti-rootkit utilites do much more than dectect as even opposed to actually removing rootkits.
                 
                So my whole point was if the user wanted to maintain as recommended a secure system and computer then to do it from scratch first setting up windows properly as recommended by professionals and experts and gov and isp and etc etc etc. If you are against all that for simple convenience of use etc etc etc, maybe you should not promote circumventing operating systems security technologies from the too familiar relaxed lazy and apathetic attituded too prevalent in the community so many now speak against as is injurious to the community.
                 
                You have Linus Torvalds as credited as principal founder of Linux with Canonical (Ubuntu) and then countless others who have gone through the process with all the time and money of making Linux dual-bootable with Windows 8 (even including petitions that circulated from others) – and why would they do this if it was “spreading doom and dread messages” to quote you? Is Linus Torvalds and Canonical and the rest of the Linux Foundation etc etc etc spreading doom and dread messages in making available Linux with secure boot compatible with Windows 8 now? Even Linux servers are using it as SuSe for one. These are FUD? If it was FUD why has the Linux Foundation even bothered a second look?
                 
                My replies to the user where that I strongly recommend he start over and set up his computer as recommended with ALL security features in place. Advising security is NOT FUD! It is a mega billion dollar industry of and intregal part of the world wide web. I posted the link (my forum string) to many, many, many of the professionals articles dealing with Linux secure boot with Win8 from the beginning forward that covered the whole controversy as it began. Reading in between the lines allows gaining the knowledge of what is going on and NECESSARY for setting up a Windows 8 PC as dual boot with Linux. You claimed I did not post sources. Did you even bother to read those sources I posted? BELOW IS ONE OF A ZILLION SOURCES OF LINUX SECURE BOOT WITH WINDOWS 8 – GOOGLE THE REST PLEASE...... Thank you for your indulgence before falsely accusin people! ! !
                 
                ONE OF MANY....... 
                 
                Secure boot loader now available to allow Linux to work on Windows 8 PCs
                 
                QUOTED:
                 
                "Freeing the way for independent Linux distributions to be installed on Windows 8 computers, the Linux Foundation has released software that will allow Linux to work with computers running the UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) firmware.
                 
                The Linux Foundation Secure Boot System solves a fundamental problem for many Linux distributions, by providing a way for a Linux-based OS to run on new hardware controlled by UEFI firmware, also known as "secure-boot" technology.
                 
                "The Linux Foundation wishes not only to enable Linux to keep booting in the face of the new wave of secure boot systems, but also to enable those technically savvy users who wish to do so to actually take control of the secure boot process by installing their own platform key," wrote Linux Foundation technical advisory board member James Bottomley, who led the development of the bootloader, in a statement.
                 
                As a potential replacement to the long-used BIOS firmware, UEFI is an industry initiative to secure computers against malware by designing the computer's firmware to require a trusted key before booting the operating system, or any hardware inside the computer, such as a graphics card.
                 
                UEFI would provide a foundation for a chain of trust that would connect all the way up to the software layer, which could thwart attempts to install illicit, and harmful, software on computers.
                 
                Windows 8
                Microsoft requires UEFI on all machines running Windows 8. While OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) have the option of providing a way to turn off UEFI so other OSes can run on the machine, many in the Linux community fear that OEMs will not provide a UEFI off-switch, thereby not allowing other OSes without a key to run on these machines.
                 
                A generic Linux distribution will not run on a Windows 8 computer without keys.
                 
                "In secure mode ... the platform will only execute EFI binaries signed with a key that is whitelisted in the UEFI secure boot signature database," Bottomley explained.
                 
                The latest releases of many major Linux distributions now include a bootloader or a shim of some sort to work with UEFI, including Ubuntu 12.10 and Fedora 18. This UEFI requirement, however, has been seen as a roadblock for those who like to create their own distributions of Linux. The Linux Foundation bootloader provides a hash code, certified by Microsoft, and support infrastructure to boot a generic Linux kernel.
                 
                "We have in place a protocol where Microsoft is happy for us to hand off from the initial Microsoft signed EFI binary load to a separately verified EFI binary chain, which the individual distributions control," Bottomley wrote.
                 
                Other efforts
                This is not the first approach someone in the Linux camp has devised for working with UEFI. Security developer Matthew Garrett released his own shim last year.
                 
                A shim is different from a bootloader even though both override the UEFI security system to load Linux. Garrett's shim is hardcoded to work with a specific generic bootloader, called elilo, that boots the Linux kernel.
                 
                UEFI
                The Linux Foundation bootloader, which Bottomley said technically is more of "a preloader," can work with any generic Linux bootloader. "We did this because our mission is to enable any bootloader in the Linux ecosystem to work with secure boot," Bottomley said.
                 
                Garrett and Bottomley are discussing the possibility of merging Garrett's shim with the Linux Foundation's bootloader. Garrett helped Bottomley create the bootloader, as did other developers from the Linux Foundation, Red Hat, and Canonical.
                 
                UEFI has proved to be a challenge to implement even for Microsoft Windows. Garrett also reported that certain Samsung laptops running Windows 8 could permanently stop working due to a bug in how the Samsung firmware stores system crash data in the UEFI storage space. "
                 
                UNQUOTE
                 
                PS..... JAMES J., THE USER STARTING THIS HELP STRING, HAS NOT REPLIED AND SAID THAT HE DID NOT WANT THE SECURE BOOT SET UP. IF HE DOES, HE ALSO WROTE HE DID NOT HAVE A RESCUE CD THAT COULD BE USED TO REINSTALL WINDOWS AND START OVER AND THEN INSTALL LINUX PROPERLY AS RECOMMENDED. I GAVE SOURCES/LINKS OF HOW TO DO THAT WITHOUT THE EMERGENCY CD/DVD REPAIR DISK (RESCUE DISK) BY THE BUILT IN NEW TECHNOLIGIES IN WINDOWS 8 – REFRESH AND RESET OPTIONS. IF HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN ALL THAT LET HIM SAY SO. YOU CAN DISABLE THE NEW WIN 8 TECHNOLOGY (SECURE BOOT) AND NOT RECOMMENDED AS WINDOWS USER.
                 
                BTW (by the way) IN A DUAL BOOT – LINUX HAS FULL ACCESS TO WINDOWS. THERE IS POSSIBILITY OF CROSS PLATFORM INFECTION IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE. HIGHLY UNLIKELY. IF CYBER CRIME ACHIEVES IT NO DOUBT WILL BE THROUGH A LINUX ROOTKIT. THAT IS A FURTHER REASON I PROMTED ESET FOR LINUX – FULL WINDOWS AND LINUX PROTECTION. HOPEFULLY YOU DO NOT FEEL NOD32 IS FUD?
                 
                IF YOU ARE OWNER/MODERATOR OF THIS GROUP PLEASE SAY SO AS YOU HAVE GROUP RULES TO BE ADHERED TO. IF YOU FEEL I PROMOTE FUD I OBVIOUSLY DISAGREE AND CONSIDER THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK BUT THIS IS NOT MY GROUP AND I WELL UNDERSTAND GROUP RULES – VIOLATE AND YOU GET THE BOOT. I FEEL I HAVE AT LEAST SCRATCHED THE SURFACE IN SUPPORTING MY EMAIL POSTS AS HAVING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FUD OR “SPREADING DOOM AND DREAD MESSAGES” AS YOU ACCUSE ME OF. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY YOU SAID THAT ABOUT ALL OF LINUX AND WINDOWS COMBINED AND ARE PROMOTING SPREADING DUMB PILLS THEN. I DO NOT SUSCRIBE TO THAT SCHOOL AT ALL. COMMUNITY WEBSITES AND FORUMS AND GROUPS THAT OFFER FREE TECH HELP DO SO BECAUSE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE AND CAN HELP KNOWING THE COSTS OF NOT-FREE HELP AND ARE IN GENERAL PROMOTING A HEALTHY CLIMTAE FOR THE COMMUNITY OF COMPUTER USERS TO PARTICIPATE IN – NOT SPREADING FEEL GOOD CONVENIENCE AND DUMB PILLS WHEN IT COMES TO THE SAFETY OF ALL THE COMMIUNITY OF COMPUTER USERS OF ALL OPERATING SYSTEMS INCLUDED.
                 
                THANK YOU FOR STATING YOUR OWN OPINIONS RATHER THAN ACCUSING OTHERS OPINIONS THAT YOU APPEAR TO NOT HAVE KNOWLEDGE IN WHAT YOU SAID!
                 
                gerald philly pa usa
                 
                 
                From: C. Beck
                Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 9:31 AM
                Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install

                On Sep 7, 2013 4:39 PM, <g.linuxducks@...> wrote:
                >I am only recommending this as apparently it seems somehow you went ahead and cold-cokked installed Linux as dual boot with Windows 8. [....] Did you disable Windows secure Boot – 8? Then question is who did? It is possible some less than genuine manufacturer has moved to circumvent this and release the Windows PC without protection enabled as a quote convenience to the user – which would leave your brand new latest Windows OS in the stone age as an Windows XP machine without protections offered since then.
                Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages of fear without at least citing your source. It would be nice also if the source were fact-based rather than op.ed.
                > I strongly! recommend that you wipe the disk by easily in-place reinstalling Windows 8 and start from scratch!
                If the bios is in legacy mode, how is reinstalling Windows going to change anything?  It also seems to me that if there is software broken, it would be the boot-OS that needs a firmware update rather than a problem with Windows. 

                 


              • C. Beck
                ... I did not intend you suggest you subscribe to FUD. I interpreted your accusation that a PC not using secure boot UEIF was in the stone age as the
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 9, 2013
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                  On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:34 PM, <g.linuxducks@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I wrote what I did from the security stand point that with the Windows OS installed – the major security technologies (secure boot) were circumvented as turned off. The information I posted is ENTIRELY based on fact and indeed am one of the sources along with all the others, professional and expert, easily googled or if you want them I will post to you. I do not subscribe to FUD as you say (Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages) and never will. FUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
                  >
                  > That was your opinion (Please do not spread "doom and dread" messages)

                  I did not intend you suggest you subscribe to FUD. I interpreted your
                  accusation that a PC not using secure boot UEIF was "in the stone age"
                  as the equivalent of "doom and dread". You will notice that statement
                  of yours in my previous email is what I quoted and replied to.


                  [...]
                  > My replies to the user where that I strongly recommend he start over and set up his computer as recommended with ALL security features in place. Advising security is NOT FUD!
                  [...]
                  > Thank you for your indulgence before falsely accusin people! ! !

                  Advising security sounds fantastic. I think suggesting that computers
                  not using your preference of boot manager and security as "in the
                  stone age" is less fantastic. I will say "I'm sorry", and hope we can
                  leave it at that. If you do not take my apology, I will accept that
                  and be glad to discontinue future discussion between us.

                  Sincerely,
                  CB
                • linuxducks
                  Here is another with some plain good old plenty of plain talk information. loosely from what memory recalls as I have been following this but not lately, is
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 9, 2013
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                    Here is another with some plain good old plenty of plain talk information. loosely from what memory recalls as I have been following this but not lately, is that Linux finally came up with the Secure Key route. The way toattack this task of dual boot Linux and Windows 8 is to go to the Windows side of the aisle. Simply, and beyond a lot of misinformation and disinformation and said to say from the linux side is that NO monopoly was created by Microsoft on computers with the secure boot Windows 8. They have been up once in the 1980s for that. They are NOT up for that now at this late date and would have been if they were guilty – believe it as mad as the Linux side became. So all it is to set up things is simply entering a secure key yourself in Windows 8 to be able to run Linux dual boot. You have to set up Windows to install Linux and NOT the other way around.
                     
                    LINK
                    If I Buy a Computer with Windows 8 and Secure Boot Can I Still Install Linux?
                     
                    As well I remember the article I was reading that actually the USA Government required Windows to produce an anti-rootkit/bootkit lock out technology and was the pressure to create Windows 8. I could try to find that link buried somewhere – so this was not some NEW Micro$oft game to mess with the public and other OSs as Linux. They were pressured by the American Government to do so. There is also the on by default for the new machines.
                     
                    gerald philly pa usa
                     
                    Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 5:29 PM
                    Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
                     


                    Today's Distrowatch.com Weekly question has some info on this topic.

                    http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130909#qa

                    Joan in Reno
                     
                  • pfrederick1
                    Some Linux distributions offer keyed kernels. Red Hat and SUSE Enterprise Linux I believe. That does not mean any Linux kernel can use secure boot though. I
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 10, 2013
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                      Some Linux distributions offer keyed kernels. Red Hat and SUSE Enterprise Linux I believe. That does not mean any Linux kernel can use secure boot though. I have not heard that UEFI was made by any mandate of the US government either. EFI was made by a consortium of corporations, including Intel, and some other big names, then extended by Microsoft into UEFI.


                      Whatever the motives were the end result has been greater difficulty in getting Linux to run on machines that have UEFI. Not running Windows at all UEFI does me absolutely no good whatsoever. The next time I am shopping around for a new system I will be looking for non-UEFI alternatives for myself too. I probably won't run x86 architecture at all, but will go with something ARM based. In time I can see ARM being the dominant platform for running Linux on.




                      --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, <linux_newbies@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Here is another with some plain good old plenty of plain talk information. loosely from what memory recalls as I have been following this but not lately, is that Linux finally came up with the Secure Key route. The way toattack this task of dual boot Linux and Windows 8 is to go to the Windows side of the aisle. Simply, and beyond a lot of misinformation and disinformation and said to say from the linux side is that NO monopoly was created by Microsoft on computers with the secure boot Windows 8. They have been up once in the 1980s for that. They are NOT up for that now at this late date and would have been if they were guilty – believe it as mad as the Linux side became. So all it is to set up things is simply entering a secure key yourself in Windows 8 to be able to run Linux dual boot. You have to set up Windows to install Linux and NOT the other way around.
                       
                      LINK
                      If I Buy a Computer with Windows 8 and Secure Boot Can I Still Install Linux?
                       
                      As well I remember the article I was reading that actually the USA Government required Windows to produce an anti-rootkit/bootkit lock out technology and was the pressure to create Windows 8. I could try to find that link buried somewhere – so this was not some NEW Micro$oft game to mess with the public and other OSs as Linux. They were pressured by the American Government to do so. There is also the on by default for the new machines.
                       
                      gerald philly pa usa
                       
                      Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 5:29 PM
                      Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
                       


                      Today's Distrowatch.com Weekly question has some info on this topic.

                      http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130909#qa

                      Joan in Reno
                       
                    • James Jolin
                      Having started this thread I have enough of a solution after reading all the various threads. If I want to run Mint 15 I just go into the bios and change boot
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 10, 2013
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                        Having started this thread I have enough of a solution after reading all the various threads.  If I want to run Mint 15 I just go into the bios and change boot priority to legacy and for windows I use ufei.  Works until something better comes along.  Thanks alot for the info.
                        Jim



                        On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 8:45 AM, <pfrederick1@...> wrote:
                         

                        Some Linux distributions offer keyed kernels. Red Hat and SUSE Enterprise Linux I believe. That does not mean any Linux kernel can use secure boot though. I have not heard that UEFI was made by any mandate of the US government either. EFI was made by a consortium of corporations, including Intel, and some other big names, then extended by Microsoft into UEFI.


                        Whatever the motives were the end result has been greater difficulty in getting Linux to run on machines that have UEFI. Not running Windows at all UEFI does me absolutely no good whatsoever. The next time I am shopping around for a new system I will be looking for non-UEFI alternatives for myself too. I probably won't run x86 architecture at all, but will go with something ARM based. In time I can see ARM being the dominant platform for running Linux on.




                        --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, <linux_newbies@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Here is another with some plain good old plenty of plain talk information. loosely from what memory recalls as I have been following this but not lately, is that Linux finally came up with the Secure Key route. The way toattack this task of dual boot Linux and Windows 8 is to go to the Windows side of the aisle. Simply, and beyond a lot of misinformation and disinformation and said to say from the linux side is that NO monopoly was created by Microsoft on computers with the secure boot Windows 8. They have been up once in the 1980s for that. They are NOT up for that now at this late date and would have been if they were guilty – believe it as mad as the Linux side became. So all it is to set up things is simply entering a secure key yourself in Windows 8 to be able to run Linux dual boot. You have to set up Windows to install Linux and NOT the other way around.
                         
                        LINK
                        If I Buy a Computer with Windows 8 and Secure Boot Can I Still Install Linux?
                         
                        As well I remember the article I was reading that actually the USA Government required Windows to produce an anti-rootkit/bootkit lock out technology and was the pressure to create Windows 8. I could try to find that link buried somewhere – so this was not some NEW Micro$oft game to mess with the public and other OSs as Linux. They were pressured by the American Government to do so. There is also the on by default for the new machines.
                         
                        gerald philly pa usa
                         
                        Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 5:29 PM
                        Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
                         


                        Today's Distrowatch.com Weekly question has some info on this topic.

                        http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130909#qa

                        Joan in Reno
                         


                      • C. Beck
                        ... If you prefer the secure boot security, there should be an option to put the UEFI into setup mode to add your own key for whatever you are about to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 11, 2013
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                          On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:11 PM, James Jolin <james.jolin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Having started this thread I have enough of a solution after reading all the various threads. If I want to run Mint 15 I just go into the bios and change boot priority to legacy and for windows I use ufei. Works until something better comes along. Thanks alot for the info.
                          > Jim
                          >

                          If you prefer the secure boot security, there should be an option to
                          put the UEFI into setup mode to add your own key for whatever you are
                          about to install. If I remember what I have read and understood it
                          properly, several distros are also shipping the OS with a key
                          purchased from Microsoft. Ubuntu is doing that from 12.10 on, so
                          Maybe mint will pick it up also in the near future. I would prefer
                          figuring out how to add the key myself (or just disabling it as you
                          have) if I ever purchase Windows 8 hardware.
                        • linuxducks
                          Sorry, forgot to add this link if helpful, as you were saying you did not have the back up emergency repair disk..... How to Create and Use a Recovery Drive or
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 12, 2013
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                            Sorry, forgot to add this link if helpful, as you were saying you did not have the back up emergency repair disk.....
                             
                            How to Create and Use a Recovery Drive or System Repair Disc in Windows 8
                            Windows 8 allows you to create a recovery drive (USB) or system repair disc (CD or DVD) that can be used to troubleshoot and restore your computer. Each type of recovery media gives you access to Windows’ advanced startup options. ...

                            http://www.howtogeek.com/131907/how-to-create-and-use-a-recovery-drive-or-system-repair-disc-in-windows-8/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=281212 
                             
                            gerald philly pa usa
                             
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:11 PM
                            Subject: Re: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
                             


                            Having started this thread I have enough of a solution after reading all the various threads.  If I want to run Mint 15 I just go into the bios and change boot priority to legacy and for windows I use ufei.  Works until something better comes along.  Thanks alot for the info.
                            Jim



                            On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 8:45 AM, <pfrederick1@...> wrote:
                             

                            Some Linux distributions offer keyed kernels. Red Hat and SUSE Enterprise Linux I believe. That does not mean any Linux kernel can use secure boot though. I have not heard that UEFI was made by any mandate of the US government either. EFI was made by a consortium of corporations, including Intel, and some other big names, then extended by Microsoft into UEFI.

                             

                            Whatever the motives were the end result has been greater difficulty in getting Linux to run on machines that have UEFI. Not running Windows at all UEFI does me absolutely no good whatsoever. The next time I am shopping around for a new system I will be looking for non-UEFI alternatives for myself too. I probably won't run x86 architecture at all, but will go with something ARM based. In time I can see ARM being the dominant platform for running Linux on.

                             

                          • linuxducks
                            Sorry again it seems I did not post these article sources, as may have been the contorversy, if you will, as perhaps why I was considered FUD by a Group
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 12, 2013
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                              Sorry again it seems I did not post these article sources, as may have been the contorversy, if you will, as perhaps why I was considered FUD by a Group Member..... and I hope he reads these!
                              Sorry if I gave any wrong impressions as some alarmist speaking out of there hat. I do a lot of research in computer security and is much harder in Linux than Windows (lol).  Now again, so I do not seem an alarmist, I am intimating only that things are possible - not as occurring on some regular basis. As with most posted Linux malware - much just seems nothing more than proof-of-concept type malware rather than actual infection reports. SEE http://www.techopedia.com/definition/4066/proof-of-concept-poc
                               
                              Me personally, I know better than to just ignore or be apathetic towards computer security with any Operating System. Chatter has only increased in just recent months to couple years for Linux and Mac/Apple. It is my belief it is just the calm before the storm for other than Windows systems. Be prepared is a good motto. Otherwise, with Linux users it is okay for them to think me a nervous nellie. Perhaps just mentioning things turns just that little attention needed to keep in the back of mind somewhere - to adopt prevention. This is my last post here as I have taken up too much time. Again my apologies if i was not clear enough and seemed coming out of FUD left field! 
                               
                              The following deal with having a dual boot system and the future perhaps will hold Linux cross infecting Windows having full access to it just being on the computer in  dual boot configuration. Possible? Proable? I will leave that up to the reader and Linux experts - the creators of it. This gives a whole new slant on articles like "10 Ways to Use Linux to Fix Your Windows PC" whereby Linux will actually infect Windows (future shock?).
                               
                               
                              I posted these at my blog here.... (BRIEF BELOW)
                              New virus infects Linux and Windows platforms (cross-platform infections)
                               
                              New virus infects Linux and Windows platforms (cross-platform infections)…..
                              Winux Virus
                              New virus infects Linux and Windows platforms: security technology studies microsoft windows versions linux viruses malicious payload william stearns….
                              Winux: Two in One Virus
                              The first Windows, Linux cross-platform virus discovered
                              “Virus researchers have discovered a new breed of virus that infects both Windows and Linux files on Intel-based Pentium PC’s. Considered a proof-of-concept virus, it has not been found in-the-wild. As such, it is not posing a threat to users, but could signal the beginning of a new precedent in virus writing – the cross-platform threat. Within less than a day of discovery, the new virus has already been assigned a number of different names, including Linux.PEElf.2132, W32.Winux, Linux.Winux, W32/Lindose, and W32.PEElf.2132.  …..
                               
                              HISTORY…..
                              Cross-platform Virus Infects Linux And Windows
                              April 7, 2006
                              A Russian security company announced Friday that it had found a cross-over virus that can infect PCs running either the open-source Linux or Microsoft Windows operating systems. Dubbed “Linux.Bi.a” and “Win32.Bi.a,” the split-personality malware doesn’t do any damage. Instead, said Moscow-based Kaspersky Labs in an online briefing, it’s a proof-of-concept to prove that a cross-platform virus is possible.
                              Java Based Cross Platform Malware Trojan (Mac/Linux/Windows)
                              20 January 2011
                              It’s pretty rare to read about malware on the Linux or Mac OSX platforms and even more rare to read about cross-platform malware which targets both AND Windows by using Java. A neat piece of coding indeed, it targets vulnerabilities in all 3 operating systems – the sad thing? The malware itself is vulnerable to a basic directory traversal exploit, which means rival gangs can actually commandeer the infected targets.
                              They went to lengths to keep it secure and unseen (encrypted communications etc) – but didn’t program the malware itself securely…
                               
                              Computerworld -
                              Kaspersky Labs is reporting a new proof-of-concept virus capable of infecting both Windows and Linux systems.
                              The cross-platform virus is relatively simple and appears to have a low impact, according to Kaspersky. Even so, it could be a sign that virus writers are beginning to research ways of writing new code capable of infecting multiple platforms, said Shane Coursen, senior technical consultant at Kaspersky.
                               
                              RELATED:
                              Torvalds Patches Linux Kernel, Fixes Broken Virus -
                              PCWorld
                              After discovering that the virus didn’t work on recent versions of Linux, …
                              ” We may see another virus using the same method of cross-platform infection. … ”
                               
                              Linux malware From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                              A new area of concern identified in 2007 is that of cross-platform … was discovered that contained a script that used the infected Linux PC in denial-of- service attacks. … There are a number of anti-virus applications available for Linux, …. Windows Viruses”.
                               
                              Research Item:
                              Executable and Linkable Format
                              From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                               
                              FOR THE REST SEE FOR YOURSELF
                              linux kernel rootkit
                               
                              linux botnet
                               
                              FANTASY?
                              The First Linux Botnet
                              The main thing keeping Linux desktops out of botnets is the sophistication of their users, but the people who built Psyb0t knew most people don't pay much attention to router security.
                              They're calling it the first botnet designed for broadband equipment and routers, and that it is. But it's also the first of something else: Psyb0t is the first Linux botnet.
                               
                              And even though it's running on hardware devices and even though it's running on Linux, and an obscure distribution of Linux at that, the basic mechanisms of it aren't that different from "conventional" botnets that run on Windows PCs. There's a lesson here. ....
                               
                              THE LINKS SHOULD COVER WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. MY LAST POST TO THIS THREAD!
                               
                              gerald philly pa usa
                               
                               
                               
                              Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:11 PM
                              Subject: Re: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Windows 8 and Linux install
                               


                              Having started this thread I have enough of a solution after reading all the various threads.  If I want to run Mint 15 I just go into the bios and change boot priority to legacy and for windows I use ufei.  Works until something better comes along.  Thanks alot for the info.
                              Jim


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