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Re: Twice the same program

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  • Paul
    ... I do it so I have two programs on a system with different features. Often of different versions. The version my distribution has sometimes is not the one
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 4, 2013
      --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, "C. Beck" <usabecker@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:40 AM, highskywhy@... <highskywhy@...> wrote:
      > > Good morning
      > > as far as I as newbie
      > > understood Linux
      > > is it possible to install
      > > twice
      > > Firefox
      > > or
      > > Claws
      > > or any other programme?
      > >
      >
      > It is possible, but probably not a very good idea for you to try. You
      > have me curious though; Why would you want to do this?
      >

      I do it so I have two programs on a system with different features. Often of different versions. The version my distribution has sometimes is not the one that I want.

      The Linux Standard Base (LSB) is designed to accommodate doing this in fact with /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin, now /opt too. So I suppose it is not too far fetched.
    • highskywhy@yahoo.de
      Good afternoon Mi Jul 10 15:46:14 2013 Thank You for help. ... There are two reasons: First learning Linux just theoretical question. Second Example. I do
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 10, 2013
        Good afternoon
        Mi Jul 10 15:46:14 2013
        Thank You for help.


        > > Good morning
        > > as far as I as newbie
        > > understood Linux
        > > is it possible to install
        > > twice
        > > Firefox
        > > or
        > > Claws
        > > or any other programme?
        > >
        >
        > It is possible, but probably not a very good idea for you to try. You
        > have me curious though; Why would you want to do this?
        >

        There are two reasons:
        First learning Linux
        just theoretical question.

        Second
        Example. I do install Firefox=FF twice.
        So when one FF is crashing the second one will be alive.
        And claws twice
        I can split email accounts
        two the two programmes.

        It is not urgent or necessary
        but I want to understand Linux.

        Siduction does have Iceweasel.
        I did su apt-get install firefox
        but nothing happened.

        Regards
        Sophie
      • highskywhy@yahoo.de
        Good afternoon Mi Jul 10 15:46:14 2013 Thank You for help. ... * This was also the idea. ... * Yes. ... * Can somebody explain it to me or is it very very
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 10, 2013
          Good afternoon
          Mi Jul 10 15:46:14 2013
          Thank You for help.

          >
          > --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:LINUX_Newbies%40yahoogroups.com>, "C. Beck" <usabecker@...>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:40 AM, highskywhy@... <highskywhy@...> wrote:
          > > > Good morning
          > > > as far as I as newbie
          > > > understood Linux
          > > > is it possible to install
          > > > twice
          > > > Firefox
          > > > or
          > > > Claws
          > > > or any other programme?
          > > >
          > >
          > > It is possible, but probably not a very good idea for you to try. You
          > > have me curious though; Why would you want to do this?
          > >
          >
          > I do it so I have two programs on a system with different features.
          *
          This was also the idea.

          > Often of different versions. The version my distribution has sometimes
          > is not the one that I want.
          *
          Yes.

          > The Linux Standard Base (LSB) is designed to accommodate doing this in
          > fact with /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin, now /opt too. So I suppose it is
          > not too far fetched.
          *
          Can somebody explain it to me
          or is it very very difficult?

          Example: Firefox twice.

          Regards
          Sophie
        • C. Beck
          On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:34 AM, highskywhy@yahoo.de ... ... Whether or not it is very difficult depends entirely on you. Basically, what your current
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 10, 2013
            On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:34 AM, highskywhy@...
            <highskywhy@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Good afternoon
            > Mi Jul 10 15:46:14 2013
            > Thank You for help.
            >
            > >
            > > --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:LINUX_Newbies%40yahoogroups.com>, "C. Beck" <usabecker@...>
            > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:40 AM, highskywhy@... <highskywhy@...> wrote:
            > > > > Good morning
            > > > > as far as I as newbie
            > > > > understood Linux
            > > > > is it possible to install
            > > > > twice
            > > > > Firefox
            > > > > or
            > > > > Claws
            > > > > or any other programme?
            > > > >
            <snip>
            > *
            > Can somebody explain it to me
            > or is it very very difficult?
            >

            Whether or not it is very difficult depends entirely on you.
            Basically, what your current level of understanding is for Linux, OS
            operation, how easy it is for you to learn, etc. all contribute to
            whether or not you will find it difficult. So it is hard to say.
            But for the sake of learning, you might as well try to do it, right?

            > Can somebody explain it to me

            Maybe Paul will chime in to provide better information/reading
            materials as it sounds like he has much more experince with this than
            I do. I will try to explain what I know and think I understand since
            I have some down time. The basic issue with just installing the same
            thing twice in the same place is that the second install will
            overwrite all of the files of the first. So to have two separate
            installations, they need to be installed in two different places.
            There are a few ways to do this:

            1) If you are compiling / building your program from source code with
            gcc, you can set the install location with the option
            '--prefix=name/of/your/install/directory'. Below is a link where you
            can read about gcc, which is collection of program compilers that you
            can probably find in your distributions software collection as an easy
            to install package (maybe).
            <http://gcc.gnu.org/>
            On the menu on the right, you can find the manual. You can also enter
            "Linux compile program tutorial" or "Linux build program from source"
            or similar into your favorite search engine to find plenty of
            walkthrough examples (add the name of your distribution to your search
            string for more specific instructions). I'll caution that you may not
            want to play around with compiling random programs on your everyday
            system as you learn - It can be easy to make a mess that way.

            2) another way is to install your program in a chroot-ed directory - I
            think "chroot" comes from "change root". It is a way to make any
            process launched from a directory to see that directory as root (i.e.,
            "/"). This is useful for aplication testing or multi user systems as
            anything operating in a chrooted directory is locked out of the rest
            of the system. chroot is part of GNU core utilities:
            <http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/coreutils.html#chroot-invocation>
            the wikipedia article has some basic information, so you may want to
            look there also. If you use Debian (and maybe Ubuntu), someone put up
            a tutorial on the debian wiki that includes includes installation of
            debootstrap:
            <http://wiki.debian.org/chroot> <-when they say "building a 'chroot'
            in that tutorial, they are actually talking about making a fairly
            minimal working OS inside of the directory you want to set as a root.
            This is a good place to play around with compiling. :)

            3) You could also use dpkg to set an installation location of a .deb
            package. I do not think APT or aptitude can do this, and I know
            nothing about YUM or RPM. But there are three options in dpkg that
            allow one to set / specify an install location that I have looked at
            before ; '--admindir=dir', 'instdir=dir', and '--root=dir' (where
            'dir' is you directory path I believe)

            dpkg is a command line program to manage Debian packages, which are
            also found in at least Linux Mint and Ubuntu...
            <------dpkg manual page excerpt---->
            --admindir=dir
            Change default administrative directory, which contains
            many files that give information about status of
            installed or uninstalled packages, etc. (Defaults to
            /var/lib/dpkg)
            --instdir=dir
            Change default installation directory which refers to the
            directory where packages are to be installed. instdir is
            also the directory passed to chroot(2) before running
            package’s installation scripts, which means that the
            scripts see instdir as a root directory. (Defaults to /)

            --root=dir
            Changing root changes instdir to dir and admindir to
            dir/var/lib/dpkg.

            <--end excerpt--->

            The above makes me think that it you use '--root=dir' during an
            install command and /dir/var/lib/dpkg exists because you previously
            copied your libriaries there, you could install a different version of
            a program without having dpkg destroy or bother the other program and
            or its dependencies. But unless I am not understanding (and that is
            not a stretch), /dir needs to have a workable system setup as above in
            "2)". I've never tried to install with these options before so can't
            really comment. I've seen people complain about dpkg just in general
            as well, but I've not used it enough to break something yet I suppose.

            4) There are probably other ways to have a certain program installed
            twice and also working, such as editing the configuration files before
            compiling it, or building the packages yourself, but I know even less
            about that.

            Well what I intended to be a quick reply got awful long. I do hope you
            find some of the above links or explanation useful. I'll be glad if
            anyone comes along to expand, clarify, or correct any of what I have
            put above.

            Best,
            ~Chris
          • highskywhy@yahoo.de
            Good afternoon Mi Jul 17 16:39:46 2013 Thank You for help. ... * OK ... * So wait a little bit. ... * Yes. So to have two separate ... * OK ... * OK I could
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 17, 2013
              Good afternoon
              Mi Jul 17 16:39:46 2013
              Thank You for help.

              >>>>> as far as I as newbie
              >>>>> understood Linux
              >>>>> is it possible to install
              >>>>> twice
              >>>>> Firefox
              >>>>> or
              >>>>> Claws
              >>>>> or any other programme?
              >>>>>
              > <snip>
              >> *
              >> Can somebody explain it to me
              >> or is it very very difficult?
              >>
              >
              > Whether or not it is very difficult depends entirely on you.
              *
              OK

              > Basically, what your current level of understanding is for Linux, OS
              > operation, how easy it is for you to learn, etc. all contribute to
              > whether or not you will find it difficult. So it is hard to say.
              > But for the sake of learning, you might as well try to do it, right?
              *
              So
              wait a little bit.

              >
              >> Can somebody explain it to me
              >
              > Maybe Paul will chime in to provide better information/reading
              > materials as it sounds like he has much more experince with this than
              > I do. I will try to explain what I know and think I understand since
              > I have some down time. The basic issue with just installing the same
              > thing twice in the same place is that the second install will
              > overwrite all of the files of the first.
              *
              Yes.

              So to have two separate
              > installations, they need to be installed in two different places.
              > There are a few ways to do this:
              *
              OK
              >
              > 1) If you are compiling / building your program from source code with
              > gcc, you can set the install location with the option
              > '--prefix=name/of/your/install/directory'. Below is a link where you
              > can read about gcc, which is collection of program compilers that you
              > can probably find in your distributions software collection as an easy
              > to install package (maybe).
              > <http://gcc.gnu.org/>
              > On the menu on the right, you can find the manual. You can also enter
              > "Linux compile program tutorial" or "Linux build program from source"
              > or similar into your favorite search engine to find plenty of
              > walkthrough examples (add the name of your distribution to your search
              > string for more specific instructions). I'll caution that you may not
              > want to play around with compiling random programs on your everyday
              > system as you learn - It can be easy to make a mess that way.
              *
              OK
              I could read it but I need time to understand it.

              >
              > 2) another way is to install your program in a chroot-ed directory - I
              > think "chroot" comes from "change root". It is a way to make any
              > process launched from a directory to see that directory as root (i.e.,
              > "/"). This is useful for aplication testing or multi user systems as
              > anything operating in a chrooted directory is locked out of the rest
              > of the system. chroot is part of GNU core utilities:
              *
              OK

              >
              <http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/coreutils.html#chroot-invocation>
              > the wikipedia article has some basic information, so you may want to
              > look there also. If you use Debian (and maybe Ubuntu), someone put up
              > a tutorial on the debian wiki that includes includes installation of
              > debootstrap:
              > <http://wiki.debian.org/chroot> <-when they say "building a 'chroot'
              > in that tutorial, they are actually talking about making a fairly
              > minimal working OS inside of the directory you want to set as a root.
              > This is a good place to play around with compiling. :)
              *
              OK
              >
              > 3) You could also use dpkg to set an installation location of a .deb
              > package. I do not think APT or aptitude can do this, and I know
              > nothing about YUM or RPM. But there are three options in dpkg that
              > allow one to set / specify an install location that I have looked at
              > before ; '--admindir=dir', 'instdir=dir', and '--root=dir' (where
              > 'dir' is you directory path I believe)

              *
              OK

              >
              > dpkg is a command line program to manage Debian packages, which are
              > also found in at least Linux Mint and Ubuntu...
              > <------dpkg manual page excerpt---->
              > --admindir=dir
              > Change default administrative directory, which contains
              > many files that give information about status of
              > installed or uninstalled packages, etc. (Defaults to
              > /var/lib/dpkg)
              > --instdir=dir
              > Change default installation directory which refers to the
              > directory where packages are to be installed. instdir is
              > also the directory passed to chroot(2) before running
              > package’s installation scripts, which means that the
              > scripts see instdir as a root directory. (Defaults to /)
              >
              > --root=dir
              > Changing root changes instdir to dir and admindir to
              > dir/var/lib/dpkg.
              >
              > <--end excerpt--->
              >
              > The above makes me think that it you use '--root=dir' during an
              > install command and /dir/var/lib/dpkg exists because you previously
              > copied your libriaries there, you could install a different version of
              > a program without having dpkg destroy or bother the other program and
              > or its dependencies. But unless I am not understanding (and that is
              > not a stretch), /dir needs to have a workable system setup as above in
              > "2)". I've never tried to install with these options before so can't
              > really comment. I've seen people complain about dpkg just in general
              > as well, but I've not used it enough to break something yet I suppose.
              >
              > 4) There are probably other ways to have a certain program installed
              > twice and also working, such as editing the configuration files before
              > compiling it, or building the packages yourself, but I know even less
              > about that.
              >
              > Well what I intended to be a quick reply got awful long. I do hope you
              > find some of the above links or explanation useful. I'll be glad if
              > anyone comes along to expand, clarify, or correct any of what I have
              > put above.
              *
              Thank You very much.
              I ll print it and study it.

              I have learned a lot about the construction of Linux.


              Here are questions:
              What browsers does exist:
              I know
              arora
              midori
              chrome
              chromium
              firefox iceweasel
              opera
              epiphany

              Are there more?
              I am looking for an easy one for easy homepages.
              All have their problems
              but Ff is best.

              Regards
              Sophie
            • highskywhy@yahoo.de
              Good afternoon Mi Jul 17 16:39:46 2013 Thank You for help. ... * Thank You. The computer is more smooth now after study Linux more and more. First year very
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 17, 2013
                Good afternoon
                Mi Jul 17 16:39:46 2013
                Thank You for help.


                >>> > is it possible to install
                >>> > twice
                >>> > Firefox


                >>
                >> There are two reasons:
                >> First learning Linux
                >> just theoretical question.
                >
                > This is why I used to do a lot of random research when I was first
                > introduced to Unix and Linux. I always enjoyed learning new things.
                > I wish I had time to take some classes or do more individual study
                > now, but I've mostly dropped down to casual linux use over the last 5
                > years now that the job I have no longer requires it. I hope you
                > continu to enjoy the learning journey. :-)
                *
                Thank You.
                The computer is more smooth now after study Linux more and more.
                First year very often I needed to do ALT STRG F1.


                >
                >>
                >> Second
                >> Example. I do install Firefox=FF twice.
                >> So when one FF is crashing the second one will be alive.
                >> And claws twice
                >> I can split email accounts
                >> two the two programmes.
                >
                > I tried to explain as much as I understand on this topic in another
                > email.
                *
                I read it.
                Thank You.

                I wanted to point out here though that claws is supposed to
                > support multiple email accounts as per their features page:
                > <http://www.claws-mail.org/features.php?section=general>
                *
                Thank _You.
                I am using 5 email accounts
                in one claws.

                But for separate
                privat
                business
                two times claws would be helpful

                Today I use thunderbird private
                claws for business.


                >
                > Also, just in case you have a problem with that error message in
                > Firefox "firefox is already running please close it first" or
                > whatever it is, you can open a terminal and usually solve the issue
                > with one of the following commands:
                >
                >>>> killall firefox
                *
                Thank You.

                What will happen:
                I open
                terminal 1

                I open terminal 2

                Both terminals I am starting
                firefox.

                Are both firefox indenpendent?


                >
                > OR
                >
                >>>> ps -A | grep firefox
                > that returns the process number of the running firefox, then:
                >>>> kill -9 XXXX
                > but instead of XXXX above, use the number of the firefox process. The
                > '-9' is sending a kill signal that will not be ignored. You can use
                > '-15' to send something more along the lines of a request that the
                > program shuts down. search for 'Linux kill signals" to learn more
                > about that if you are interested.
                >
                > Best, ~C
                >

                *
                Thank You.

                Thank You also for the kill command.

                Regards
                Sophie
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