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Re: What I've been up to with Linux lately

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  • Paul
    ... You don t get it. You don t have to spend any money. You ve already done that. You have to be aware. That you haven t tried yet. When it comes to freedom
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 14, 2012
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      --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
      >
      > It is a bad strategy. I would rather switch to a distro that works than
      > spend money uselessly. My hardware works with every other distro. They have
      > me pegged wrong.
      > I am not a zealot. I am a computer user.
      > Roy

      You don't get it. You don't have to spend any money. You've already done that. You have to be aware. That you haven't tried yet.

      When it comes to freedom color me a zealot.
    • Roy
      Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit Location: Canada For gaming try the latest Ubuntu. The Software centre includes many games not available in other distros as
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 15, 2012
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        Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
        Location: Canada
        For gaming try the latest Ubuntu. The Software centre includes many games
        not available in other distros as Canonical is working closely with
        gaming companies like Electronic Arts and Humble Indie Bundle. Steam for
        Linux is supposedly on its way later this year.

        Paul,

        The conversation re: Debian 6 is going nowhere. I have said two times, so
        this is the third, my ethernet card works with every distro but Debian 6
        and I have tried literally hundreds of distros. It is an OTB Realtek. The
        problem is not the hardware. It is Debian. BTW, it worked with Debian 5 so
        they made it not work by removing the binary blobs. That is okay by me. But
        they did not provide a way to get them that was workable. That left me out
        in the cold as far as Debian 6 went. The fault lies with Debian, not me or
        my card (which is one of the most common cards on the market). My
        conclusion is that they are putting ideology ahead of people. That is why
        Debian has been relegated to a has been distro. I don't know how I could
        conclude otherwise. They do not care about users. They said as much when I
        contacted them. They told me to buy a new card. How is that helpful?

        I appreciate that people are zealous about freedom, but somewhere the
        rubber must reach the road. In order to be successful, you must start where
        people are and move them along gradually. The reality is that most people
        have non-free hardware. You cannot cut them off cold turkey and expect then
        to be happy about it.

        Roy

        On 14 June 2012 22:39, Paul <pfrederick1@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > It is a bad strategy. I would rather switch to a distro that works than
        > > spend money uselessly. My hardware works with every other distro. They
        > have
        > > me pegged wrong.
        > > I am not a zealot. I am a computer user.
        > > Roy
        >
        > You don't get it. You don't have to spend any money. You've already done
        > that. You have to be aware. That you haven't tried yet.
        >
        > When it comes to freedom color me a zealot.
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Paul
        ... No matter how many times you say it you won t change wrong to right. Your Ethernet Adapter works with Debian, you just cannot manage to make it do so. I ve
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 15, 2012
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          --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
          >
          > Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
          > Location: Canada
          > For gaming try the latest Ubuntu. The Software centre includes many games
          > not available in other distros as Canonical is working closely with
          > gaming companies like Electronic Arts and Humble Indie Bundle. Steam for
          > Linux is supposedly on its way later this year.
          >
          > Paul,
          >
          > The conversation re: Debian 6 is going nowhere. I have said two times, so
          > this is the third, my ethernet card works with every distro but Debian 6

          No matter how many times you say it you won't change wrong to right. Your Ethernet Adapter works with Debian, you just cannot manage to make it do so. I've told you how.

          > and I have tried literally hundreds of distros.

          That's nice. I've run Linux for over 17 years now. Who's p*ssing higher up the pole?

          It is an OTB Realtek. The
          > problem is not the hardware. It is Debian. BTW, it worked with Debian 5 so
          > they made it not work by removing the binary blobs. That is okay by me. But
          > they did not provide a way to get them that was workable. That left me out
          > in the cold as far as Debian 6 went. The fault lies with Debian, not me or
          > my card (which is one of the most common cards on the market). My
          > conclusion is that they are putting ideology ahead of people. That is why
          > Debian has been relegated to a has been distro. I don't know how I could
          > conclude otherwise.

          Maybe if you did not run a distribution based on Debian your words would carry more weight? You run a monkeyed with Debian. End of story. I must assume you need your dope OS cut, and cannot hack it yourself in the pure state.


          They do not care about users. They said as much when I
          > contacted them. They told me to buy a new card. How is that helpful?
          >

          I wasn't there so I don't know what lead to that unfortunate exchange. I've some idea how it transpired though based on what you are writing now.

          > I appreciate that people are zealous about freedom, but somewhere the
          > rubber must reach the road. In order to be successful, you must start where
          > people are and move them along gradually. The reality is that most people
          > have non-free hardware. You cannot cut them off cold turkey and expect then
          > to be happy about it.

          What your argument basically boils down to is simply this, you don't want Debian to properly classify code based on what it is in reality. Non-free closed source is not in Debian's main repository at all in any way, shape, or form. You are trying to fault Debian for doing their job too well. Others of us appreciate the fine work that the Debian maintainers do.

          You actually do too, you just don't know it. Mr. Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit

          All Ubuntu, and Ubuntu spin offs are based on Debian. Any distribution that uses the dpkg package management system is based on Debian. dpkg = Debian PacKaGe manager.

          $ man dpkg

          dpkg(1) dpkg suite dpkg(1)

          NAME
          dpkg - package manager for Debian

          >
          > Roy

          P.S. I have to agree with your Roy you really have gone nowhere with this conversation. In fact I'd have to say you're losing credibility with each post.
        • Roy
          It is not a question of credibility or right or wrong. It is an unwinnable argument, both ways. We have choice. I have chosen what works for me and you have
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 16, 2012
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            It is not a question of credibility or right or wrong. It is an unwinnable
            argument, both ways. We have choice. I have chosen what works for me and
            you have chosen what works for you. Most people avoid Debian and prefer a
            sensible distribution based on it because Debian has made it hard for
            users. Debian's users make it doubly hard when they go on a crusade. I am
            selling nothing and not in a p*ssing contest. You took things out of
            context to make it so. My comment about trying hundreds of distros was
            linked to Debian not working as hundreds of others do, not to any bragging.
            I wonder why you would do such a thing?

            The bottom line is in the numbers. Debian is fading to the point that many
            writers and columnists have questioned its relevance and long term
            viability. There is a reason for that. The stripping away of binary blobs
            in Debian 6 did nothing to help. Erecting barriers to usage is not going to
            make your distribution more popular or more accessible. That was their
            stated goal for Debian 6 and they shot themselves in the foot. In addition,
            they failed to gain the seal of approval from the FSF, so they gained
            nothing.

            Debian is a terrific ecosystem. It is worth preserving and it would be much
            easier for users of Debian forks to respect Debian, if Debian users were
            not so angry at the rest of the world. The hatred goes one way. Debian does
            not respect any distro that builds on it if it makes it more user friendly
            or is not in line with its own philosophy. Other distros are not like that.
            Shuttleworth loves what Mint is doing and says so publicly. He does not
            take every opportunity to dump on it as Debian users do with Ubuntu. In
            Planet Fedora I see lots of respect being given to Fedora derivatives. You
            cannot get respect without giving it.

            You might think that I hate Debian, but I do not. I rag on it because I
            want it to get better and succeed. I have long thought that there is a
            problem in the Debian community and their disrespect for anything that does
            not conform to their ideals, from FF to Ubuntu. There is nothing wrong with
            ideology. We should be free to have opinions that differ. Debian does not
            seem to get that freedom means freedom to disagree.

            We disagree, but it should not result in harsh words, unless you don't
            think that contrary views are unacceptable. If so, then you do not live in
            a free world, but a dictatorship.

            Roy

            Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
            Location: Canada


            On 15 June 2012 20:05, Paul <pfrederick1@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
            > > Location: Canada
            > > For gaming try the latest Ubuntu. The Software centre includes many games
            > > not available in other distros as Canonical is working closely with
            > > gaming companies like Electronic Arts and Humble Indie Bundle. Steam for
            > > Linux is supposedly on its way later this year.
            > >
            > > Paul,
            > >
            > > The conversation re: Debian 6 is going nowhere. I have said two times, so
            > > this is the third, my ethernet card works with every distro but Debian 6
            >
            > No matter how many times you say it you won't change wrong to right. Your
            > Ethernet Adapter works with Debian, you just cannot manage to make it do
            > so. I've told you how.
            >
            > > and I have tried literally hundreds of distros.
            >
            > That's nice. I've run Linux for over 17 years now. Who's p*ssing higher up
            > the pole?
            >
            > It is an OTB Realtek. The
            > > problem is not the hardware. It is Debian. BTW, it worked with Debian 5
            > so
            > > they made it not work by removing the binary blobs. That is okay by me.
            > But
            > > they did not provide a way to get them that was workable. That left me
            > out
            > > in the cold as far as Debian 6 went. The fault lies with Debian, not me
            > or
            > > my card (which is one of the most common cards on the market). My
            > > conclusion is that they are putting ideology ahead of people. That is why
            > > Debian has been relegated to a has been distro. I don't know how I could
            > > conclude otherwise.
            >
            > Maybe if you did not run a distribution based on Debian your words would
            > carry more weight? You run a monkeyed with Debian. End of story. I must
            > assume you need your dope OS cut, and cannot hack it yourself in the pure
            > state.
            >
            > They do not care about users. They said as much when I
            > > contacted them. They told me to buy a new card. How is that helpful?
            > >
            >
            > I wasn't there so I don't know what lead to that unfortunate exchange.
            > I've some idea how it transpired though based on what you are writing now.
            >
            > > I appreciate that people are zealous about freedom, but somewhere the
            > > rubber must reach the road. In order to be successful, you must start
            > where
            > > people are and move them along gradually. The reality is that most people
            > > have non-free hardware. You cannot cut them off cold turkey and expect
            > then
            > > to be happy about it.
            >
            > What your argument basically boils down to is simply this, you don't want
            > Debian to properly classify code based on what it is in reality. Non-free
            > closed source is not in Debian's main repository at all in any way, shape,
            > or form. You are trying to fault Debian for doing their job too well.
            > Others of us appreciate the fine work that the Debian maintainers do.
            >
            > You actually do too, you just don't know it. Mr. Using Kubuntu 12.04,
            > 64-bit
            >
            > All Ubuntu, and Ubuntu spin offs are based on Debian. Any distribution
            > that uses the dpkg package management system is based on Debian. dpkg =
            > Debian PacKaGe manager.
            >
            > $ man dpkg
            >
            > dpkg(1) dpkg suite dpkg(1)
            >
            > NAME
            > dpkg - package manager for Debian
            >
            > >
            > > Roy
            >
            > P.S. I have to agree with your Roy you really have gone nowhere with this
            > conversation. In fact I'd have to say you're losing credibility with each
            > post.
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ironmantis7x
            This is a cool thread! Lately, I have been using Linux Mint 12 (KDE 32 bit version on my Asus Zenbook) and Linux Mint 13 Maya on my desktop PC. I am turning
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 16, 2012
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              This is a cool thread!
              Lately, I have been using Linux Mint 12 (KDE 32 bit version on my Asus Zenbook) and Linux Mint 13 "Maya" on my desktop PC. I am turning my desktop PC into a web server -- so wish me luck!!

              Love Linux and love Linux Mint!

              ironmantis7x
            • Mani Kandan
              hi iron, Best of luck, before that consider about its security features. By, ManikandanKajendran ________________________________ From: ironmantis7x
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 16, 2012
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                hi iron,
                Best of luck, before that consider about its security features.

                By,
                ManikandanKajendran



                ________________________________
                From: ironmantis7x <ironmantis7x@...>
                To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:37 PM
                Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: What I've been up to with Linux lately


                 
                This is a cool thread!
                Lately, I have been using Linux Mint 12 (KDE 32 bit version on my Asus Zenbook) and Linux Mint 13 "Maya" on my desktop PC. I am turning my desktop PC into a web server -- so wish me luck!!

                Love Linux and love Linux Mint!

                ironmantis7x




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Paul
                ... You ve some crazy notions I ll give you that. There is Debian which is the wellspring then there are all the down stream pretenders that just muddy the
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 16, 2012
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                  --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > It is not a question of credibility or right or wrong. It is an unwinnable
                  > argument, both ways. We have choice. I have chosen what works for me and
                  > you have chosen what works for you. Most people avoid Debian and prefer a
                  > sensible distribution based on it because Debian has made it hard for
                  > users. Debian's users make it doubly hard when they go on a crusade. I am
                  > selling nothing and not in a p*ssing contest. You took things out of
                  > context to make it so. My comment about trying hundreds of distros was
                  > linked to Debian not working as hundreds of others do, not to any bragging.
                  > I wonder why you would do such a thing?
                  >
                  > The bottom line is in the numbers. Debian is fading to the point that many
                  > writers and columnists have questioned its relevance and long term
                  > viability. There is a reason for that. The stripping away of binary blobs
                  > in Debian 6 did nothing to help. Erecting barriers to usage is not going to
                  > make your distribution more popular or more accessible. That was their
                  > stated goal for Debian 6 and they shot themselves in the foot. In addition,
                  > they failed to gain the seal of approval from the FSF, so they gained
                  > nothing.
                  >
                  > Debian is a terrific ecosystem. It is worth preserving and it would be much
                  > easier for users of Debian forks to respect Debian, if Debian users were
                  > not so angry at the rest of the world. The hatred goes one way. Debian does
                  > not respect any distro that builds on it if it makes it more user friendly
                  > or is not in line with its own philosophy. Other distros are not like that.
                  > Shuttleworth loves what Mint is doing and says so publicly. He does not
                  > take every opportunity to dump on it as Debian users do with Ubuntu. In
                  > Planet Fedora I see lots of respect being given to Fedora derivatives. You
                  > cannot get respect without giving it.
                  >
                  > You might think that I hate Debian, but I do not. I rag on it because I
                  > want it to get better and succeed. I have long thought that there is a
                  > problem in the Debian community and their disrespect for anything that does
                  > not conform to their ideals, from FF to Ubuntu. There is nothing wrong with
                  > ideology. We should be free to have opinions that differ. Debian does not
                  > seem to get that freedom means freedom to disagree.
                  >
                  > We disagree, but it should not result in harsh words, unless you don't
                  > think that contrary views are unacceptable. If so, then you do not live in
                  > a free world, but a dictatorship.
                  >
                  > Roy
                  >
                  > Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
                  > Location: Canada

                  You've some crazy notions I'll give you that. There is Debian which is the wellspring then there are all the down stream pretenders that just muddy the waters. Your mind has been polluted by the impure.

                  Pray to St. iGNUcius to deliver you from evil and save your mortal soul!

                  http://stallman.org/saint.html
                • Roy
                  Thanks for your concern for my soul. :) Most people are polluted and there are few purists. I agree that Debian does great upstream work and this is what they
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 17, 2012
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                    Thanks for your concern for my soul. :)

                    Most people are polluted and there are few purists. I agree that Debian
                    does great upstream work and this is what they excel at. Most people do not
                    get the water at the source. They get it close to where they live and work.
                    People live and work in all kinds of situations which means that there is
                    no one kind of user. People have varying needs and we cannot all drink from
                    the same cup. That is the crux of the matter. Debian and software freedom
                    types want everybody to drink the same Kool-Aid as they do.

                    Freedom has to mean that people are truly free. If you allow one person or
                    group to narrowly define your freedom then you are not free. You live in a
                    cage.

                    People can choose to do that of their own free will. But when you remove
                    the other choices as valid options or you attempt to ridicule them into
                    submission then you remove free choice. This parallels what is happening in
                    society today where one religious group tries to forces its morals on
                    another group. If people choose them freely then that is consensus, but
                    when they are forced both sides lose. The side which loses its freedom is
                    forced into submission (often at a high cost), but the one doing to forcing
                    loses their moral superiority and become hypocrites.

                    For me, it is an educational issue. I agree with free software as an
                    *ideal*, but am practical. We need to work towards it as a goal and not try
                    to force it on people and in the meantime we need to educate and work hard.
                    It may not sound like it, but I am a FSF supporter and admire RMS. I am
                    also a critic because I think they have an admirable goal, but want to fast
                    track things.

                    When we discuss things we can agree on some level. I agree with you in
                    principle. It is the practise on which we disagree. That does not make me
                    or you wrong. It is a process and that takes time.

                    Roy

                    Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
                    Location: Canada


                    On 16 June 2012 17:34, Paul <pfrederick1@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > It is not a question of credibility or right or wrong. It is an
                    > unwinnable
                    > > argument, both ways. We have choice. I have chosen what works for me and
                    > > you have chosen what works for you. Most people avoid Debian and prefer a
                    > > sensible distribution based on it because Debian has made it hard for
                    > > users. Debian's users make it doubly hard when they go on a crusade. I am
                    > > selling nothing and not in a p*ssing contest. You took things out of
                    > > context to make it so. My comment about trying hundreds of distros was
                    > > linked to Debian not working as hundreds of others do, not to any
                    > bragging.
                    > > I wonder why you would do such a thing?
                    > >
                    > > The bottom line is in the numbers. Debian is fading to the point that
                    > many
                    > > writers and columnists have questioned its relevance and long term
                    > > viability. There is a reason for that. The stripping away of binary blobs
                    > > in Debian 6 did nothing to help. Erecting barriers to usage is not going
                    > to
                    > > make your distribution more popular or more accessible. That was their
                    > > stated goal for Debian 6 and they shot themselves in the foot. In
                    > addition,
                    > > they failed to gain the seal of approval from the FSF, so they gained
                    > > nothing.
                    > >
                    > > Debian is a terrific ecosystem. It is worth preserving and it would be
                    > much
                    > > easier for users of Debian forks to respect Debian, if Debian users were
                    > > not so angry at the rest of the world. The hatred goes one way. Debian
                    > does
                    > > not respect any distro that builds on it if it makes it more user
                    > friendly
                    > > or is not in line with its own philosophy. Other distros are not like
                    > that.
                    > > Shuttleworth loves what Mint is doing and says so publicly. He does not
                    > > take every opportunity to dump on it as Debian users do with Ubuntu. In
                    > > Planet Fedora I see lots of respect being given to Fedora derivatives.
                    > You
                    > > cannot get respect without giving it.
                    > >
                    > > You might think that I hate Debian, but I do not. I rag on it because I
                    > > want it to get better and succeed. I have long thought that there is a
                    > > problem in the Debian community and their disrespect for anything that
                    > does
                    > > not conform to their ideals, from FF to Ubuntu. There is nothing wrong
                    > with
                    > > ideology. We should be free to have opinions that differ. Debian does not
                    > > seem to get that freedom means freedom to disagree.
                    > >
                    > > We disagree, but it should not result in harsh words, unless you don't
                    > > think that contrary views are unacceptable. If so, then you do not live
                    > in
                    > > a free world, but a dictatorship.
                    > >
                    > > Roy
                    > >
                    > > Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
                    > > Location: Canada
                    >
                    > You've some crazy notions I'll give you that. There is Debian which is the
                    > wellspring then there are all the down stream pretenders that just muddy
                    > the waters. Your mind has been polluted by the impure.
                    >
                    > Pray to St. iGNUcius to deliver you from evil and save your mortal soul!
                    >
                    > http://stallman.org/saint.html
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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