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Re: [LINUX_Newbies] New features in 11.04

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  • G.LinuxDucks
    UNIX CERTIFICATION..... referenced Unix From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix Unix (officially trademarked as UNIX,
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 31, 2011
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      UNIX CERTIFICATION..... referenced

      Unix
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix

      "Unix (officially trademarked as UNIX, sometimes also written as Unix) is a
      multitasking, multi-user computer operating system originally developed in
      1969 by a group of AT&T employees at Bell Labs, including Ken Thompson,
      Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan, Douglas McIlroy, Steven Gladstone and Joe
      Ossanna. The Unix operating system was first developed in assembly
      language,
      but by 1973 had been almost entirely recoded in C, greatly facilitating its
      further development and porting to other hardware. Today's Unix system
      evolution is split into various branches, developed over time by AT&T as
      well as various commercial vendors, universities (such as University of
      California, Berkeley's BSD), and non-profit organizations.

      The Open Group, an industry standards consortium, owns the UNIX trademark.
      Only systems fully compliant with and certified according to the Single
      UNIX
      Specification are qualified to use the trademark; others might be called
      Unix system-like or Unix-like, although the Open Group disapproves[1] of
      this term. However, the term Unix is often used informally to denote any
      operating system that closely resembles the trademarked system.

      During the late 1970s and early 1980s, the influence of Unix in academic
      circles led to large-scale adoption of Unix (particularly of the BSD
      variant, originating from the University of California, Berkeley) by
      commercial startups, the most notable of which are Solaris, HP-UX and AIX.
      Among all variants of Unix, Linux is the most widely used, powering
      everything from huge data centers to desktop systems to mobile phones to
      embedded devices such as routers. Mac OS X currently has the biggest use on
      personal computers with more than 55 million systems installed. Today, in
      addition to certified Unix systems such as those already mentioned,
      Unix-like operating systems such as MINIX, Linux and BSD descendants
      (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and DragonFly BSD) are commonly encountered. The
      term traditional Unix may be used to describe a Unix or an operating system
      that has the characteristics of either Version 7 Unix or UNIX System V.

      Several graphical operating systems, including MacOS X and Android, can be
      referred to as UNIX-like. ...... "

      IN FULL .....
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix


      gerald philly pa usa
      http://linuxducks.webs.com/
    • Roy
      I meant in a broader context. Windows users will only know that Windows sucks and that it is part of the problem, if they experience it for what it is. If we
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 1, 2011
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        I meant in a broader context. Windows users will only know that Windows
        sucks and that it is part of the problem, if they experience it for what it
        is. If we assist them in living in the delusion that they are in a
        safe environment, then we do them no favours. Aside from that I have become
        a bit jaded about it all. It does not affect me and so why should I care if
        others persist in using an OS made of Swiss cheese.Those Russian botnets
        exploit XP machines and while they are doing harm they would not be able to
        to it as effectively if Microsoft was on the ball.

        Here is an example. Someone will find an exploit and announce it publicly
        so that users will know and expect MS to patch it. So, MS goes all quiet
        first. Then they deny it when asked directly. Then they say they are
        looking into it. Then they admit it and say that they are working on a fix.
        Then they say the fix will be available next patch Tuesday which is two
        weeks away. A month has passed and those botnets have been busy and the
        problem has travelled aroud the world affecting millions of MS customers.
        That would be bad if it happened just once, but it is the script.

        So, little old me, using Linux thinks, if MS does not care, why should I?
        MS has denied that the said botnets use Windows or exploit Windows, but
        they also say that the world will be safer when XP is closed down. We live
        in a world of contradictions. My contradiction is that using Linux to help
        Windows users is like peeing on a forest fire when the forest ranger is
        asleep and the arsonists know it. As I said, I have been around the block a
        few times and have lost my enthusiasm for helping those who do not want it.
        So I handle the contradiction of not seeming to care, by using something
        that is far safer and trying to spread the word that it does not have to be
        this way, rather than saving people who do not know they are in trouble and
        are not asking for my help.

        Using an AV for me is not a good use of my time. I would rather be typing
        long messages to you. :)

        Roy

        Using Kubuntu 11.10, 64-bit
        Location: Canada


        On 31 October 2011 23:11, G.LinuxDucks <g.linuxducks@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > That;s a very unfair position and untrue of Windows and Microsoft. But
        > you mention your reasons which can be understood.
        >
        > I think this is offensive actually ..... (quoted)
        >
        > <<<but we need to burn our fingers a few times before we learn to avoid
        > fire. >>>
        >
        > I am guessing you probably mean the crew that does other than "Safe
        > Practices" - meaning visiting shady areas on the Net, opening spams
        > looking for possible deals actually (Spam Mart lol) , going for free
        > stuff in Peer to Peer, etc.
        >
        > Otherwise (and I had opened a IT Security for Home/Small Business in
        > South East Pennsylvania USA with a couple of programmers in the family)
        > that is very offensive to the chronic 45 to 55 Billion USDollars ripped
        > off from USA Citizens yearly since stats going back to 2005-6 and the
        > approximately 4 percent that became "un-people" that can never get
        > credit cards again because of the credit companies as a direct result of
        > the ID Theft committed against them. These people were as normal and
        > average as any User on the world wide web. They were not security savvy
        > and got scammed, ripped off, and victims of Identity Theft and further
        > in business as victims of crimewares called "Ransomware". These people
        > certainly did not need to ...
        >
        > <<<but we need to burn our fingers a few times before we learn to avoid
        > fire. >>> ....they were innocent victims of crimewares and botnets being
        > run by dangerous murderous internet crime gangs - many being the young
        > "Russian Gangs".
        >
        > This would tread by me into what nobody here wants to here - a windows
        > security thang. Microsoft has been up for monopoly charges several
        > times. No angels - but mostly found innocent. But we are talking Linux
        > security and there are two incidents that turned the head. One was Linux
        > was among a handful of others in official legal publications legally
        > termed as "riskware " in 2009 I believe it was. Microsoft Windows has
        > never been legally termed as "riskware". This is a legal court term too.
        > Linux NEVER disputed that. The other is that Windows Vista is the ONLY
        > found operating system and software that does not allow rootkits to run
        > on or in it as Linux does. Neither had Linux achieved Unix Certification
        > whereas Windows was the only one to do so until very very very recently.
        > For education visit "Vista Bashing". Bill Gates and Microsoft were ready
        > to sue at law for libel the lies and defaming of Vista that had reached
        > levels of actually hurting sales. Some Linux users and otherwise love to
        > be Windows Bashers and will lie through their teeth while doing it -
        > possibly even setting up their new marks for cyber crime on Linux. The
        > truth came out that it was software creators that have been the largest
        > security hole on Windows - not Windows. That's what the Vista release
        > was all about. It was so sophisticated that even the antivirus companies
        > took a couple of years to create "Vista Certified" products. Most - the
        > best they could create was "Works With Vista" and most all software
        > creators to this day. This shows who the master programmers are in the
        > world. This is why it is locked code as 90 percent of the world uses it.
        > Sure they got rich. So did Henry Ford and still sells a reasonably
        > priced product with all the competition. Windows Vista was actually the
        > crown jewel of security software for the decade (2000 - 2010). Viruses
        > can NOT write to the computer disk in Vista. Rootkits can NOT run on
        > Vista with UAC on as instructed and recommended (User Account Control).
        > I don;t believe there is any other such operating system in the world.
        > It was intentionally designed for this and Bill Gates and Microsoft
        > challenged the world to create more secure softwares. They knew Vista
        > would bomb heavily because of software compatibility. This was quite
        > INTENTIONAL. It was their crown jewel in computing security by creating
        > the actual operating system itself as the most secure software in the
        > world. It has taken this long to this year but the first reports of UAC
        > being cracked by malware have come in.
        >
        > The whole point was that in security I did my homework and know what I
        > am talking about. What is to blame is not Windows for you. What is to
        > blame is the cyber criminal underground. These have so unmercifully
        > without conscience attacked the world community of computer users in
        > theft that makes the old american mafia look like a cancelled brownie
        > meeting. A golden horde.
        >
        > I respect Linux and Users, and I am one and a contributor and will
        > continue to be so for life no doubt. I don't think the spread of "feel
        > good security" ignorantly or otherwise is helping anyone and especially
        > the person trying to hide behind it - not believing it themselves. I
        > feel your (quoted ) <<<I am a bit jaded about Windows.>>> should be
        > where it belongs - against Cyber Thieves and not Windows. FYI... again
        > Windows has been Unix Certified years and years ago meaning stable and
        > secure. Linux has not achieved that as being only "Unix-Like" Certified
        > as somewhat unstable and somewhat not secure.
        >
        > I think you need a lesson in security which may change your "jaded
        > opinions of windows". In law and fact, the show is on the other foot and
        > we should not deceive people as you made the best security point to
        > being a responsible Netizen by securing your computer with your best
        > ability as being malware free.
        >
        > That was a fantastic truth ISPs and the entire security community have
        > wished for all users on all systems. That is my view and teaching that
        > the beginning of wisdom on any computer is to "Never operate any
        > computer without antivirus minimum". Period.
        >
        > gerald philly pa usa
        > Perhaps a new string about security is necessary.
        > (I have been on windows over 10 years)
        >
        >
        > On 10/30/2011 5:13 PM, Roy wrote:
        > > If anyone is unsure, the DO err on the side of caution. You are right. As
        > > you use Linux then you will see what I said about being not worth the
        > > effort. If I was a good citizen then I would care about spreading viruses
        > > to Windows users. While I can' t be infected I can still be a carrier. If
        > > you are conscientious, then this is a serious consideration. I am a bit
        > > jaded about Windows. I figure that people get what they deserve. That may
        > > sound harsh, but we need to burn our fingers a few times before we learn
        > to
        > > avoid fire.
        > >
        > > I appreciate your thoughts. It makes me remember how I once felt. It is
        > not
        > > wrong to feel like protecting others. I just feel the futility of it
        > when I
        > > know how big the problem is and how little MS cares about users or
        > > security. Their answer is UEFI (not their invention, just their
        > > excuse)which is like wrapping Swiss cheese in a zip lock. You can keep
        > > things out but it is still Swiss cheese inside. Once you open the bag you
        > > will risk mold and contamination. If they really cared then they would
        > fill
        > > the ziplock with something more substantial.
        > >
        > >
        > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/sep/28/windows-8-secure-boot-worry
        > >
        > > Roy
        > >
        > > Using Kubuntu 11.10, 64-bit
        > > Location: Canada
        > >
        > >
        > > On 29 October 2011 20:06, G.LinuxDucks<g.linuxducks@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Well thanks Roy. I was hoping this did not get taken wrong to be
        > >> anything other than how it turned out as some civil discussion. I
        > >> appreciate you taking the time and sharing your extensive experience - a
        > >> veteran now 10 year user of Linux. Anyone can plainly see you had/have
        > >> no reason to lie about anything and your long experience is the great
        > >> value here. You have made many good points. I think your views are most
        > >>
        > --------------cut----------------------------------cut------------------- /
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • G.LinuxDucks
        Well and back to you..... I must say either you are very uninformed in Security or either than you are an intentional product basher . I will not go further
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 1, 2011
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          Well and back to you..... I must say either you are very uninformed in
          Security or either than you are an intentional "product basher". I will
          not go further but to explain my statement....

          Your proponent is your advice of the Linux alternative to all this and
          here.... (quoted)
          <<<If we assist them in living in the delusion that they are in a safe
          environment, then we do them no favors.>>>
          .... is you doing exactly that. I remind you that Linux and Firefox have
          both been legally listed as riskware in official legal reports not too
          long ago, and have corrected greatly. Windows has never been listed as
          riskware. Internet Explorer is rated as the safest browser worldwide
          since Version 8 and including newer version 9. Microsoft Internet
          Explorer is part of the Windows Operating System and ergo has already
          been rated as secure and stable so it goes as being the ONLY browser
          worldwide to ever achieve "Unix Certification" because Microsoft Windows
          has been the only Operating System to achieve "Unix Certification" and
          therefore Internet Explorer being a part of that has been rated that. It
          is not a separate part of Windows as some add on software or in any
          bloatware package. It is part of the Windows Operating System. In that
          Linux has not been able to achieve Unix Certification is just one fact
          and legally that it is not more safe or more secure than Microsoft
          Windows - and neither Apple/Mac.
          Linux has never denied or disputed these FACTS though you have by
          offering the alternative in the light of untrue product bashing. Linux
          speaks for itself. It does not have to lie about other products to make
          a dishonest buck. I have not known persons involved in Linux to be of
          such ill repute as one may believe by your promotion of it. You are not
          promoting Linux but rather dishonesty as false advertising and doing
          Linux or Windows Users ANY favor at all by your dishonesty or ignorance
          - as you have not made clear which yet. Ask anyone at Linux in other
          words and they will say No Thanks we don;t use or need that kind of
          Product Promotion and neither would we employ such an individual to do
          so. Linux ezines must stand on their own merit as you must by their posts.

          You are spreading a delusion in security by 'product bashing' and your
          facts are less than laughable when examined. This is what "product
          bashing" generally refers to - based on a foundation of mistruths and
          open lies. Sometimes it is disallowed at a handful of forums I have
          noticed and for obvious reasons.

          NOT TRUE.... quoted
          <<<Here is an example. Someone will find an exploit and announce it
          publicly so that users will know and expect MS to patch it.>>>
          That is illegal. No one may post legally any such code as proof of
          concept or otherwise that is destructive to networks, equipment,
          personal or company/corporate computers, etc. on the world wide web for
          public or private view. My source is a friend who is employed by
          MalwareBytes.Org in malware research whom I reported to an exact episode
          of same and was immediately removed from the world web and actions taken
          by Agencies.

          NOT TRUE.... quoted
          <<<Then they admit it and say that they are working on a fix. Then they
          say the fix will be available next patch Tuesday which is two weeks
          away.>>>
          You are OBVIOUSLY product bashing or have made up a COMPLETE FANTASY
          about Microsoft Windows or are simply completely ignorant of the truth.
          The vast majority of Windows Users are well aware that through the
          beginning to mid "XP Years" that Windows Updates were released
          immediately after testing. This changed a few years ago, to as well
          accommodate IT on corporate levels, to every Second Tuesday of the month
          dubbed "Patch Tuesday". Any CRITICAL or ZERO DAY PATCH/FIX is released
          IMMEDIATELY as OFFICIALLY called an OUT-OF CYCLE Microsoft Windows
          Critical Update.

          NOT TRUE.....quoted
          <<<Those Russian botnets exploit XP machines and while they are doing
          harm they would not be able to to it as effectively if Microsoft was on
          the ball.>>>
          I just posted correction to your mistruths. The Microsoft "Out Of Cycle"
          Windows Update immediately patches security holes and/or code hardens.
          Botnets are not known as primary culprits in these exploits. "Scareware"
          as term for fake, rogue, pirated rebranded faulty malware infested
          antimalware products are the primary attackers. The American FBI has
          listed this as many many many others have. In fact the infamous SpyAxe
          was about first to do so in the WMF Metafile zero day in Windows half a
          decade ago. Using ignorance or mistruths via product bashing is NOT
          helping Linux. You may be even HURTING new Linux users as thinking
          that's the way ALL Linux people are - completely dishonest liars and
          product bashers, what good could the product be ? You don;t want to do
          that do you ? ! Then don't !

          NOT TRUE .....quoted
          <<<It does not affect me and so why should I care if others persist in
          using an OS made of Swiss cheese.>>>
          Again, if you are product bashing via number of Security Updates to
          Windows by calling it "swiss cheese" meaning full of security holes the
          nefarious can exploit then we look to Linux Updates and as well your
          mention of them being published.... If we use your analogy of what
          constitutes "swiss cheese" let's look at how many holes Linux has as
          compared to Windows (which has had a handful in the last year - and I
          run both a XP and Vista computer.....
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/9
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/10
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/11
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/13
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/233
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/234
          Fwd: [USN-1137-1] Eucalyptus vulnerability
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/292
          Fwd: [USN-1138-1] DBus-GLib vulnerability
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/294
          Fwd: [USN-1138-2] NetworkManager and ModemManager update
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/295
          Fwd: [USN-1140-1] PAM vulnerabilities
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/302
          Fwd: [USN-1139-1] Bind vulnerabilities
          Fwd: [USN-1146-1] Linux kernel vulnerabilities
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/318
          Fw: [USN-1147-1] GIMP vulnerability
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/324
          Fwd: [USN-1151-1] Nagios vulnerabilities
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/330
          Fwd: [USN-1152-1] libvirt vulnerabilities
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/336
          Fwd: [USN-1153-1] libxml2 vulnerability
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/337
          Fwd: [USN-1154-1] OpenJDK 6 vulnerabilities
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/338
          Fwd: [USN-1155-1] NBD vulnerability
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinuxDucks/message/351

          OKAY THAT IS IN ABOUT ONE MONTH'S TIME ! ! ! Quazillions of Updates.
          Windows has NEVER had such a caseload of Windows Updates. No need to
          look it up or go ahead and google it. As source, I have been on Windows
          with one of the very first Windows XP computers sold in Nov. 2001 to
          present and Vista and 7 as well - and have had two or three offers from
          some important security firms actually to boot (I am disabled and
          declined).

          Now via YOUR definition of "SWISS CHEESE" - we are looking at it ! ! !
          Linux would be that and NOT Windows. Neither has Linux been attacked on
          the level Windows has been since it all began around the beginning of
          this last decade.... 2000 to 2010. Frankly there security departments
          have not had the level of attack and defense and will NOT achieve their
          sophistication until the next decade after 2020 IF they were attacked
          like Windows was/is starting tomorrow. Again experience is the best
          teacher in some cases. In security you gain a "nose" and can sniff
          trouble and were as, or before, it happens. These are the top employees
          in security.

          And the truth is, as I said Linux speaks for itself, here we see how
          busy they are and produce their equivalent of Windows Critical Security
          Updates through Update Manager. The ORIGINAL security argument came (and
          from many people as you speak here) about 2006 to 2008 that Linux,
          Apple/Mac, and Firefox were virtually malware immune and make Windows
          look like a joke. This lying and unfaithful and mistruths have been
          shown as the basis of dishonest or uninformed and sometimes even called
          "newbie hype" - basis or foundation and platform for "product bashing"
          and why this is frowned upon and most times actually disallowed by all
          honest users in the Community of computer operators on the worldwide web.

          The truth in the above argument was based upon that 90 percent of all
          world computer ran Windows and was "were the money" is for those
          committing cyber theft via cyber crimewares such as password stealing
          viruses that also ran through Firefox via Java exploits, spyware
          installations, other crimewares as ransomware. It is too risky and
          costly for the cyber criminal underground to go "social engineering"
          hunting in tiny ponds where there is little internet financial
          transaction occurring - the other 10 percent of operating systems
          including Linux and Apple/Mac. THIS was and still is the truth about
          Windows being attacked so heavily and we have not even touched on
          Botnets via Botherders, Botlords, Botmasters committing corporate cyber
          crime via their botnet attacks in the form of Denial of Service
          Distribution Attacks (DDoS) holding corporations worldwide for illegal
          extortion ! Windows computers.

          When the level of attacks happen to Linux and Apple/Mac that have
          occurred to Windows we will see how they fair. They will either do as
          good a job or a horrible one being way behind the patch/fix/updates
          immediately necessary. From what I have seen I would say their first
          incidents will be as awkward as it was for Windows.

          Remember that just very recently both Linux Kernel Org and the Linux
          Software Repository have been hacked. This has NEVER occurred with
          Windows save the one incident of the Windows Updates website itself
          blocked by hackers temporarily during a zero day keeping slothful users
          from getting the Critical Update/Patch to block them out. These slothful
          users either by apathy or bad directions from bad or uninformed user
          helpers or simple ignorance of not knowing did not have Windows Updates
          set to Automatic Install as instructed and recommended to by Microsoft
          and the vast majority of responsible informed Windows users as we are
          and know to be.

          NOW I do not wish to take back some compliments I made towards you but I
          think I SHOULD as I now suspect in your several answers together as I
          very slightly suspected that you are doing NOTHING but your little
          PRODUCT BASHING of Windows skit for all Linux Users. I feel the
          Owner/Moderator of this group should take action for same. I have made
          the case I feel for that.

          The discussion here was not Linux or Windows - but SECURITY - which is
          what you have dishonestly or ignorantly given what you called.... (quoted)
          <<<If we assist them in living in the delusion that they are in a safe
          environment, then we do them no favours.>>>
          You have given such delusion as to condemn yourself as dishonest in your
          product bashing portrayal of your position as being security correct
          with and for Linux to at least all the users in this group and all RSS
          Visitors to the group worldwide via RSS Readers of Public messages.

          I will NOT post again and will maintain my position - and well spelled
          out - that I feel you have been dishonest and are nothing more than a
          Windows Product Basher as dishonest mistruths. In security we teach
          truth to the public so that they are enabled and EMPOWERED to make
          INFORMED DECISIONS as to computer security and their own security
          solutions for the same. Product Bashers do their best to misguide this
          most times as self aggrandizing but are very hurtful to uninformed
          followers. This is the main reason product bashers in security are
          immediately disallowed to continue further.

          The only way I could not believe you are performing Windows Product
          Bashing is perhaps for you to read some, and study some, and verify
          some, and come back with some reply to admit you were ignorantly wrong
          in your statements. (I am a group owner and would have banned you
          already ! )

          Otherwise I need NOT reply further. My reply of information to you is
          quite sufficient as just a little more than 'surface'.

          gerald philly pa usa
          Amateur Forensics (computer)
          Webmaster http://bluecollarpc.us/

          IF YOU WISH TO HONESTLY PROMOTE WONDERFUL LINUX WITH THE REST PLEASE DO
          NOT RESORT TO DISHONEST DECEITFUL PRODUCT BASHING. YOU ARE HURTING NO
          ONE BUT YOUR OWN REPUTATION AND PERHAPS THE MINDS OF THE NOVICES. THANK
          YOU !

          --a concerned, VERY concerned Linux User and contributor !


          On 11/1/2011 6:58 AM, Roy wrote:
          > I meant in a broader context. Windows users will only know that Windows
          > sucks and that it is part of the problem, if they experience it for what it
          > is. If we assist them in living in the delusion that they are in a
          > safe environment, then we do them no favours. Aside from that I have become
          > a bit jaded about it all. It does not affect me and so why should I care if
          > others persist in using an OS made of Swiss cheese.Those Russian botnets
          > exploit XP machines and while they are doing harm they would not be able to
          > to it as effectively if Microsoft was on the ball.
          >
          > Here is an example. Someone will find an exploit and announce it publicly
          > so that users will know and expect MS to patch it. So, MS goes all quiet
          > first. Then they deny it when asked directly. Then they say they are
          > looking into it. Then they admit it and say that they are working on a fix.
          > Then they say the fix will be available next patch Tuesday which is two
          > weeks away. A month has passed and those botnets have been busy and the
          > problem has travelled aroud the world affecting millions of MS customers.
          > That would be bad if it happened just once, but it is the script.
          >
          > So, little old me, using Linux thinks, if MS does not care, why should I?
          > MS has denied that the said botnets use Windows or exploit Windows, but
          > they also say that the world will be safer when XP is closed down. We live
          > in a world of contradictions. My contradiction is that using Linux to help
          > Windows users is like peeing on a forest fire when the forest ranger is
          > asleep and the arsonists know it. As I said, I have been around the block a
          > few times and have lost my enthusiasm for helping those who do not want it.
          > So I handle the contradiction of not seeming to care, by using something
          > that is far safer and trying to spread the word that it does not have to be
          > this way, rather than saving people who do not know they are in trouble and
          > are not asking for my help.
          >
          > Using an AV for me is not a good use of my time. I would rather be typing
          > long messages to you. :)
          >
          > Roy
          >
          > Using Kubuntu 11.10, 64-bit
          > Location: Canada
          >
          >
          > On 31 October 2011 23:11, G.LinuxDucks<g.linuxducks@...> wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          -------------cut----------------cut----------------------- /
        • G.LinuxDucks
          no karma games by others thank you ! DONE ! I thank any for your time and interest that were involved in this now closed discussion by me unless otherwise
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 1, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            no karma games by others thank you !
            DONE !
            I thank any for your time and interest that were involved in this now
            closed discussion by me unless otherwise asked - as security issues are
            time consuming, not actually at the top of the popularity list lol, and
            basically a pain in the butt.

            gerald philly pa usa
          • Roy
            You are on my troll ignore list. You are being intentionally annoying and verging on being offensive. I have explained my position over and over. You do get it
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 2, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              You are on my troll ignore list. You are being intentionally annoying and
              verging on being offensive. I have explained my position over and over. You
              do get it and come back with long circular arguments that will cause me to
              have to repeat myself which is not a good use of my time and boring for
              others.

              Roy

              Using Kubuntu 11.10, 64-bit
              Location: Canada


              On 1 November 2011 23:21, G.LinuxDucks <g.linuxducks@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > no karma games by others thank you !
              > DONE !
              > I thank any for your time and interest that were involved in this now
              > closed discussion by me unless otherwise asked - as security issues are
              > time consuming, not actually at the top of the popularity list lol, and
              > basically a pain in the butt.
              >
              > gerald philly pa usa
              >
              >
              >


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