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Re: [LINUX_Newbies] What distro's to try.

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  • Scott
    ... RH6 is going to be similar to F12-13 or so, with, as you say, a few of the stupidities left out. The currently available RH/CentOS 5.x , however is
    Message 1 of 16 , May 7, 2010
      On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 01:28:23AM -0400, J wrote:

      >
      > You can try CentOS to get a feel for what Red Hat Enterprise Linux is
      > like (which is rather similar to Fedora with fewer boneheaded
      > "features" (right Scott?).

      RH6 is going to be similar to F12-13 or so, with, as you say, a few of
      the stupidities left out. The currently available RH/CentOS 5.x ,
      however is running a kernel that's a few years old, 2.6.18, and the
      versions of packages are far older. That being said, several
      "improvements" aren't in 5.x, which is a good thing, but conversely,
      many programs, e.g. the chromium browser, won't build easily because of
      older versions of kernel and various libs.


      --
      Scott Robbins
      PGP keyID EB3467D6
      ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
      gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

      Xander: You were looking at my neck.
      Angel: What?
      Xander: You were checking out my neck, I saw that.
      Angel: No, I wasn't.
      Xander: Just keep your distance, pal.
      Angel: I wasn't looking at your neck.
      Xander: I told you to eat before we left.
    • Roy
      Trying other distributions is the most computing fun that you can have for free. I have close to twenty partitions spread across three drives and have only
      Message 2 of 16 , May 7, 2010
        Trying other distributions is the most computing fun that you can have for
        free. I have close to twenty partitions spread across three drives and have
        only Kubuntu representing Canonical at present. I also have Sabayon
        (Gentoo-based), PCLinuxOS 2010 (Mandriva-based), SimplyMEPIS 8.5
        (Debian-based), Sidux (Debian-based), openSuSE 11.2 and Fedora 12. I had
        Mandriva 2010 until I replaced it with PCLOS and Debian 5, but replaced it
        with Sidux. All distributions are different and have something going for
        them. It is a question of trying them and matching them with your personal
        preference and needs.

        Distributions that I really like are Fedora 12 (it is for intermediate
        users), PCLinuxOS (only comes in 32-bit, unfortunately) and SimplyMEPIS 8.5.
        Fedora is the most fiddly because you need to tweak it manually. PCLinuxOS
        works great out the box. It is an RPM based distribution that uses Synaptic.
        So if you want to try something really different and don't mind 32-bit then
        this distro might be for you. SimplyMEPIS is a KDE distribution that is
        closest to Debian stable.

        I like Sidux, but it is based on Sid (Debian unstable) and many people may
        find it not stable enough (I don't mind the bleeding edge for some reason).
        Also Debian's community is not known for its friendliness to new users (or
        old for that matter). You really need to mind your Ps and Qs around them.
        They don't mind excoriating or humiliating you over using the wrong term,
        like Linux, Firefox or Thunderbird. It is GNU/Linux, Iceweasel and Icedove,
        idiot!

        Speaking of communities, I really like Fedora's. The only problem for new
        users is that they usually speak way over your head and everything they
        suggest is commandline. Next to Ubuntu, Fedora has the best users.

        Arch is a great distro to try if you want to get back to basics. Sabayon is
        good if you want to give Gentoo a try without building from scratch. If you
        don't want to deviate far from the tree much then you could try Xubuntu,
        Lubuntu and Kubuntu.

        Check out Distrowatch.com for their top 100 list. So many distributions and
        so little time!

        Roy



        On 7 May 2010 06:19, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 01:28:23AM -0400, J wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > You can try CentOS to get a feel for what Red Hat Enterprise Linux is
        > > like (which is rather similar to Fedora with fewer boneheaded
        > > "features" (right Scott?).
        >
        > RH6 is going to be similar to F12-13 or so, with, as you say, a few of
        > the stupidities left out. The currently available RH/CentOS 5.x ,
        > however is running a kernel that's a few years old, 2.6.18, and the
        > versions of packages are far older. That being said, several
        > "improvements" aren't in 5.x, which is a good thing, but conversely,
        > many programs, e.g. the chromium browser, won't build easily because of
        > older versions of kernel and various libs.
        >
        > --
        > Scott Robbins
        > PGP keyID EB3467D6
        > ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
        > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
        >
        > Xander: You were looking at my neck.
        > Angel: What?
        > Xander: You were checking out my neck, I saw that.
        > Angel: No, I wasn't.
        > Xander: Just keep your distance, pal.
        > Angel: I wasn't looking at your neck.
        > Xander: I told you to eat before we left.
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Knowledge Seeker
        I was onto Ubuntu since 7.0, but with every new version Ubuntu seems to walk away from my laptop. With 9.0, it failed on my Athreos wifi card, started giving
        Message 3 of 16 , May 7, 2010
          I was onto Ubuntu since 7.0, but with every new version Ubuntu seems to
          walk away from my laptop. With 9.0, it failed on my Athreos wifi card,
          started giving Kernel crash.

          With 10.1 when I tried installing from standard i386 image, my laptop
          hanged. When I tried installing from alternate CD. It failed to install
          at the step of installing 'base package', corrupted my MBR, so that I
          cant boot in my windows also. Somehow I mended my MBR to boot in WinXP.
          Ubuntu seem to be a far ship for me to sail .....now.

          BTW, my laptop might be bit old. Toshiba Satellite L20. Athreos Wifi,
          Celeron 1.3G, 2GB RAM, 40 GB linux dedicated partition (rest for my own
          and XP), additional SWAP partition, SlimLine DVD writer., ATI Radeon
          Express 200M graphics card.



          On 5/7/2010 6:11 PM, Roy wrote:
          > Trying other distributions is the most computing fun that you can have for
          > free. I have close to twenty partitions spread across three drives and have
          > only Kubuntu representing Canonical at present. I also have Sabayon
          > (Gentoo-based), PCLinuxOS 2010 (Mandriva-based), SimplyMEPIS 8.5
          > (Debian-based), Sidux (Debian-based), openSuSE 11.2 and Fedora 12. I had
          > Mandriva 2010 until I replaced it with PCLOS and Debian 5, but replaced it
          > with Sidux. All distributions are different and have something going for
          > them. It is a question of trying them and matching them with your personal
          > preference and needs.
          >
          > Distributions that I really like are Fedora 12 (it is for intermediate
          > users), PCLinuxOS (only comes in 32-bit, unfortunately) and SimplyMEPIS 8.5.
          > Fedora is the most fiddly because you need to tweak it manually. PCLinuxOS
          > works great out the box. It is an RPM based distribution that uses Synaptic.
          > So if you want to try something really different and don't mind 32-bit then
          > this distro might be for you. SimplyMEPIS is a KDE distribution that is
          > closest to Debian stable.
          >
          > I like Sidux, but it is based on Sid (Debian unstable) and many people may
          > find it not stable enough (I don't mind the bleeding edge for some reason).
          > Also Debian's community is not known for its friendliness to new users (or
          > old for that matter). You really need to mind your Ps and Qs around them.
          > They don't mind excoriating or humiliating you over using the wrong term,
          > like Linux, Firefox or Thunderbird. It is GNU/Linux, Iceweasel and Icedove,
          > idiot!
          >
          > Speaking of communities, I really like Fedora's. The only problem for new
          > users is that they usually speak way over your head and everything they
          > suggest is commandline. Next to Ubuntu, Fedora has the best users.
          >
          > Arch is a great distro to try if you want to get back to basics. Sabayon is
          > good if you want to give Gentoo a try without building from scratch. If you
          > don't want to deviate far from the tree much then you could try Xubuntu,
          > Lubuntu and Kubuntu.
          >
          > Check out Distrowatch.com for their top 100 list. So many distributions and
          > so little time!
          >
          > Roy
          >
          >
          >
          > On 7 May 2010 06:19, Scott<scottro@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >>
          >> On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 01:28:23AM -0400, J wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >>> You can try CentOS to get a feel for what Red Hat Enterprise Linux is
          >>> like (which is rather similar to Fedora with fewer boneheaded
          >>> "features" (right Scott?).
          >>>
          >> RH6 is going to be similar to F12-13 or so, with, as you say, a few of
          >> the stupidities left out. The currently available RH/CentOS 5.x ,
          >> however is running a kernel that's a few years old, 2.6.18, and the
          >> versions of packages are far older. That being said, several
          >> "improvements" aren't in 5.x, which is a good thing, but conversely,
          >> many programs, e.g. the chromium browser, won't build easily because of
          >> older versions of kernel and various libs.
          >>
          >> --
          >> Scott Robbins
          >> PGP keyID EB3467D6
          >> ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
          >> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
          >>
          >> Xander: You were looking at my neck.
          >> Angel: What?
          >> Xander: You were checking out my neck, I saw that.
          >> Angel: No, I wasn't.
          >> Xander: Just keep your distance, pal.
          >> Angel: I wasn't looking at your neck.
          >> Xander: I told you to eat before we left.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this list, please email LINUX_Newbies-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com& you will be removed.Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Scott
          ... A quick aside--as preparation for the upcoming Toystory 3 I rewatched 1 and 2. *Now* I remember why Sid was chosen for the unstable branch. Great movies
          Message 4 of 16 , May 7, 2010
            On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 08:41:52AM -0400, Roy wrote:


            >
            > I like Sidux, but it is based on Sid (Debian unstable) and many people may
            > find it not stable enough

            A quick aside--as preparation for the upcoming Toystory 3 I rewatched 1
            and 2. *Now* I remember why "Sid" was chosen for the unstable branch.

            Great movies by the way, Joss Whedon wrote, or helped write, the first
            one, don't know about 2 and the upcoming 3.)
            >


            > Speaking of communities, I really like Fedora's. The only problem for new
            > users is that they usually speak way over your head and everything they
            > suggest is commandline. Next to Ubuntu, Fedora has the best users.


            I'd have to agree with that--as a former mod on their forms, I remember
            from my very first post how nice the respondents were. Very nice bunch
            of people, from the admins and mods on down. The developers vary, some
            really caring about the users and fighting for them, and others---well,
            never mind.

            >
            > Arch is a great distro to try if you want to get back to basics.

            Also very nice and helpful people on the forums, as well as one of the
            best wikis around.


            --
            Scott Robbins
            PGP keyID EB3467D6
            ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
            gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

            Anya: You know, you can laugh, but I have witnessed a
            millennium of treachery and oppression from the males of the species,
            and I have nothing but contempt for the whole libidinous lot of them.
            Xander: Then why are you talking to me?
            Anya: I don't have a date for the prom.
          • Darksyde
            ... I ll second the recommendation of Mint, my first officially adopted distro, and second Debian as well. Fedora s nice, though I personally don t care for
            Message 5 of 16 , May 7, 2010
              --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, "sgttutt2001" <sgttutt2001@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have installed Ubuntu 10.04 which I like, but would it be worth to try another distro? I have a external HD that I would install it on. I know that everyone has their favorite one. Any recommendations would be welcomed.
              >
              > i am still a newbie to Linux.
              >
              > KT
              >
              I'll second the recommendation of Mint, my first officially adopted distro, and second Debian as well. Fedora's nice, though I personally don't care for KDE. MEPIS is simple and straightforward (KDE again), but you may want to skip over (for now anyway) Damn Small Linux which is really only valuable (IMHO) if you have an older machine. Best bet: check out DistroWatch and burn a live disk of every one that sounds interesting.
              Mark
            • Roy
              Fedora is either GNOME or KDE. Most associate Fedora with being a GNOME distro. Mint is a good distro, but I did not include Mint because he already has Ubuntu
              Message 6 of 16 , May 7, 2010
                Fedora is either GNOME or KDE. Most associate Fedora with being a GNOME
                distro.

                Mint is a good distro, but I did not include Mint because he already has
                Ubuntu and Mint is just Ubuntu plus a few extras whereas SimplyMEPIS is
                Debian which is quite different. If he wants a different experience then he
                should avoid Mint. However, if he had started with something other than
                Ubuntu then Mint would be an obvious choice.

                I did not mention openSuSE. It also is worth trying although it is not
                newbie friendly IMO.

                Roy

                On 7 May 2010 13:21, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com <LINUX_Newbies%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "sgttutt2001" <sgttutt2001@...> wrote:
                > >id
                > > I have installed Ubuntu 10.04 which I like, but would it be worth to try
                > another distro? I have a external HD that I would install it on. I know that
                > everyone has their favorite one. Any recommendations would be welcomed.
                > >
                > > i am still a newbie to Linux.
                > >
                > > KT
                > >
                > I'll second the recommendation of Mint, my first officially adopted distro,
                > and second Debian as well. Fedora's nice, though I personally don't care for
                > KDE. MEPIS is simple and straightforward (KDE again), but you may want to
                > skip over (for now anyway) Damn Small Linux which is really only valuable
                > (IMHO) if you have an older machine. Best bet: check out DistroWatch and
                > burn a live disk of every one that sounds interesting.
                > Mark
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Roy
                First off there is no 10.1 of Ubuntu.You probably mean 10.04. Linux and laptops are particularly difficult because laptops use so much proprietary hardware and
                Message 7 of 16 , May 8, 2010
                  First off there is no 10.1 of Ubuntu.You probably mean 10.04.

                  Linux and laptops are particularly difficult because laptops use so much
                  proprietary hardware and Linux is open source. The job of backward
                  engineering software to fit proprietary hardware is huge, if you think about
                  it. Windows does not have to do this because Microsoft sets standards and
                  OEMs comply. This cosy relationship leaves users out of the equation. It
                  exists to sell more hardware and more copies of Windows. Upgrading in
                  Windows may force users to buy new equipment. Just keep this in mind when
                  you knock what Ubuntu or other distros are attempting to do.

                  That being said, Ubuntu works surprisingly well as many people here can
                  attest. It takes patience and perseverance to troubleshoot problems. I have
                  found that where one distro fails another may work. The reason is that they
                  use different kernels and boot loaders. Some BIOSes use funky settings which
                  can throw off the boot loading process and cause kernel panics and hanging.
                  You need to use settings or parameters in grub to bypass these unorthodox
                  settings. So you can try other distributions (there are over 300) or try to
                  play around with the settings in Ubuntu to get it to boot.

                  I have found PCLinuxOS and SimplyMEPIS to work well with tricky hardware.

                  Roy

                  On 7 May 2010 11:50, Knowledge Seeker <knowledgeseeker78@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > I was onto Ubuntu since 7.0, but with every new version Ubuntu seems to
                  > walk away from my laptop. With 9.0, it failed on my Athreos wifi card,
                  > started giving Kernel crash.
                  >
                  > With 10.1 when I tried installing from standard i386 image, my laptop
                  > hanged. When I tried installing from alternate CD. It failed to install
                  > at the step of installing 'base package', corrupted my MBR, so that I
                  > cant boot in my windows also. Somehow I mended my MBR to boot in WinXP.
                  > Ubuntu seem to be a far ship for me to sail .....now.
                  >
                  > BTW, my laptop might be bit old. Toshiba Satellite L20. Athreos Wifi,
                  > Celeron 1.3G, 2GB RAM, 40 GB linux dedicated partition (rest for my own
                  > and XP), additional SWAP partition, SlimLine DVD writer., ATI Radeon
                  > Express 200M graphics card.
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jane Delawney
                  Duh. Have been a watcher but not contributor to this list for ages; so don t know what the accepted format it. Top post or bottom post? Going for safety:
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 8, 2010
                    Duh. Have been a watcher but not contributor to this list for ages; so
                    don't know what the accepted format it. Top post or bottom post?

                    Going for safety: bottom post coming up.

                    On 07/05/10 02:03, sgttutt2001 wrote:
                    > I have installed Ubuntu 10.04 which I like, but would it be worth to try another distro? I have a external HD that I would install it on. I know that everyone has their favorite one. Any recommendations would be welcomed.
                    >
                    > i am still a newbie to Linux.
                    >
                    > KT
                    >
                    >
                    Hello there,

                    In case you find it helpful: I am the original non-techie! I started
                    using Linux because I was so sick of the security issues that come
                    bundled with Windoze. As a complete ignoramus, technophobe and general
                    command line eejit, I have been running Mandrake / Mandriva Linux as an
                    *almost* pure GUI OS since 2001. That's right; as a pointy-clicky non
                    technical Windoze refugee, with a blind spot for learning technical
                    stuff, I have still been able to run a viable system, use the internet
                    (both dial-up and broadband), do eBay, watch videos on YouTube, use mail
                    and newsgroups, do pretty much everything I want to do out there, with
                    the help of Mandriva forums, a smidgen of intelligent googling, and a
                    little (but not too much) recourse to linuxquestions.org and this
                    mailing list.

                    I'd highly recommend this underrated, French RH derivative; they've
                    moved far beyond their origins by this time and represent a solid,
                    stable OS which is totally newbie-friendly ... as long as you know *the
                    secret* of course, which is easy-urpmi.zarb.org for adding media
                    sources. Once you've got all your free and non-free repositories -
                    include PLF please! - configured (and these days, zarb will do it
                    automatically, you don't even have to copy-and-paste into a root
                    console) it really is possible to run this system through the GUI 99.9%
                    of the time. I love it. I'm free of Windoze, and my blind spot is not an
                    issue.

                    As time has gone on, I've gotten a little bolder, and have even managed
                    to build a working Debian system on my other box - though I hasten to
                    add that this doesn't mean I suddenly turned into a geek, it means the
                    Debian developers have provided a much more eejit-friendly installer for
                    Lenny! But I'm still going to be using Mandriva for most of my day to
                    day computing.

                    I've tried most of the distros people have mentioned - Mint is pretty;
                    but the only one so far that has configured the wireless nic on my
                    laptop without issues was SimplyMepis - nobody mentioned that yet, it's
                    another Debian derivative, and for me it works well in that one respect.
                    And I have a netbook that uses Asus's own little distro, though they now
                    seem to have stopped supporting this, which is rather a shame (it's
                    Debian by any other name though).

                    Dunno if any of that is helpful - but yes, if you're not fond of the
                    CLI, it IS possible to use Linux as a GUI OS. I've been doing it for 10
                    years with Mandrake / Mandriva, and I don't regret a moment.

                    cheers

                    JD
                  • Jane Delawney
                    Duh. Have been a watcher but not contributor to this list for ages; so don t know what the accepted format it. Top post or bottom post? Going for safety:
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 8, 2010
                      Duh. Have been a watcher but not contributor to this list for ages; so
                      don't know what the accepted format it. Top post or bottom post?

                      Going for safety: bottom post coming up.

                      On 07/05/10 02:03, sgttutt2001 wrote:
                      > I have installed Ubuntu 10.04 which I like, but would it be worth to
                      > try another distro? I have a external HD that I would install it on. I
                      > know that everyone has their favorite one. Any recommendations would
                      > be welcomed.
                      >
                      > i am still a newbie to Linux.
                      >
                      > KT
                      >
                      Hello there,

                      In case you find it helpful: I am the original non-techie! I started
                      using Linux because I was so sick of the security issues that come
                      bundled with Windoze. As a complete ignoramus, technophobe and general
                      command line eejit, I have been running Mandrake / Mandriva Linux as an
                      *almost* pure GUI OS since 2001. That's right; as a pointy-clicky non
                      technical Windoze refugee, with a blind spot for learning technical
                      stuff, I have still been able to run a viable system, use the internet
                      (both dial-up and broadband), do eBay, watch videos on YouTube, use mail
                      and newsgroups, do pretty much everything I want to do out there, with
                      the help of Mandriva forums, a smidgen of intelligent googling, and a
                      little (but not too much) recourse to linuxquestions.org and this
                      mailing list.

                      I'd highly recommend this underrated, French RH derivative; they've
                      moved far beyond their origins by this time and represent a solid,
                      stable OS which is totally newbie-friendly ... as long as you know *the
                      secret* of course, which is easy-urpmi.zarb.org for adding media
                      sources. Once you've got all your free and non-free repositories -
                      include PLF please! - configured (and these days, zarb will do it
                      automatically, you don't even have to copy-and-paste into a root
                      console) it really is possible to run this system through the GUI 99.9%
                      of the time. I love it. I'm free of Windoze, and my blind spot is not an
                      issue.

                      As time has gone on, I've gotten a little bolder, and have even managed
                      to build a working Debian system on my other box - though I hasten to
                      add that this doesn't mean I suddenly turned into a geek, it means the
                      Debian developers have provided a much more eejit-friendly installer for
                      Lenny! But I'm still going to be using Mandriva for most of my day to
                      day computing.

                      I've tried most of the distros people have mentioned - Mint is pretty;
                      but the only one so far that has configured the wireless nic on my
                      laptop without issues was SimplyMepis - nobody mentioned that yet, it's
                      another Debian derivative, and for me it works well in that one respect.
                      And I have a netbook that uses Asus's own little distro, though they now
                      seem to have stopped supporting this, which is rather a shame (it's
                      Debian by any other name though).

                      Dunno if any of that is helpful - but yes, if you're not fond of the
                      CLI, it IS possible to use Linux as a GUI OS. I've been doing it for 10
                      years with Mandrake / Mandriva, and I don't regret a moment.

                      cheers

                      JD

                      PS please excuse if this post appears twice, having (non OS related)
                      issues with the mail server.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Scott
                      ... Inline. :) That is, answer point A under point A, point B under point B. That being said, as you ve noticed, people post in all sorts of ways, but in
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 8, 2010
                        On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 12:44:54AM +0100, Jane Delawney wrote:
                        > Duh. Have been a watcher but not contributor to this list for ages; so
                        > don't know what the accepted format it. Top post or bottom post?

                        Inline. :) That is, answer point A under point A, point B under point
                        B.
                        That being said, as you've noticed, people post in all sorts of ways,
                        but in general, the most technically oriented members, most of whom are
                        IT professionals, post in line. (Save for when someone <waves to Jeff>
                        has to use their smartphone).

                        Said IT pros also tend to trim, that is eliminate unnecessary points
                        from the mail that they're answering. However, especially on this list,
                        where it becomes a major issue each time it's raised, post as you
                        wish--just note again that the majority of the more experienced are more
                        likely to read a properly formatted post.

                        >

                        > On 07/05/10 02:03, sgttutt2001 wrote:
                        > > I have installed Ubuntu 10.04 which I like, but would it be worth to try another distro? I have a external HD that I would install it on. I know that everyone has their favorite one. Any recommendations would be welcomed.
                        > >
                        > > i am still a newbie to Linux.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > Hello there,
                        >
                        > In case you find it helpful: I am the original non-techie! I started
                        > using Linux because I was so sick of the security issues that come
                        > bundled with Windoze. As a complete ignoramus, technophobe and general
                        > command line eejit, I have been running Mandrake / Mandriva Linux as an
                        > *almost* pure GUI OS since 2001.

                        Wow, no one mentioned Mandriva? Hrrm, I should have thrown in a mention
                        of it.



                        That's right; as a pointy-clicky non
                        > technical Windoze refugee, with a blind spot for learning technical
                        > stuff, I have still been able to run a viable system, use the internet
                        > (both dial-up and broadband), do eBay, watch videos on YouTube, use mail
                        > and newsgroups, do pretty much everything I want to do out there, with
                        > the help of Mandriva forums, a smidgen of intelligent googling, and a
                        > little (but not too much) recourse to linuxquestions.org and this
                        > mailing list.
                        >
                        > I'd highly recommend this underrated, French RH derivative

                        I think it lost popularity for several reasons--they were charging for
                        it, which bothered people, they put in non-open source things, meaning
                        it was actually useful, back before that was popular, and so on.
                        However, yes, it's an excellent beginner's distro, that is also used by
                        the guru. And yes, originally it wsa an RH derivative, the big
                        difference at the time, back in the late 90's, IIRC, was that they
                        wanted KDE vs. RH's Gnome.

                        However, they are, as you say, well beyond that now.

                        >
                        > I've tried most of the distros people have mentioned - Mint is pretty;
                        > but the only one so far that has configured the wireless nic on my
                        > laptop without issues was SimplyMepis - nobody mentioned that yet

                        Actually, I think Roy did. :)

                        Interesting though, for me Mepis had more trouble with my wireless than
                        some of the others. I think Mepis is a great distro, very friendly,
                        helpful forums, with developers active there, and I think that had
                        Warren not gotten ill, and had Ubuntu not come along, it would have bee
                        what Ubuntu is now.


                        > another Debian derivative, and for me it works well in that one respect.
                        > And I have a netbook that uses Asus's own little distro, though they now
                        > seem to have stopped supporting this, which is rather a shame (it's
                        > Debian by any other name though).

                        I never did use it--it was Xandros, a commercial distro based on Debian.
                        From what I understood (never having used it, only hearsay) it was
                        somewhat crippled though. This was, unfortunately, the case on most of
                        the netbooks that came Linux--Acer used Linpus, which was a really
                        screwed up version of Fedora 8, MSI, I think, used a crippled version of
                        Novell's commercial SuSE, etc.
                        >
                        > Dunno if any of that is helpful - but yes, if you're not fond of the
                        > CLI, it IS possible to use Linux as a GUI OS. I've been doing it for 10
                        > years with Mandrake / Mandriva, and I don't regret a moment.

                        Yup agreed. I'd say the same for most of the desktop distributions now,
                        which of course, aggravates the heck out of we dinosaurs who prefer
                        command line. It's not bad to have GUI tools--what aggravates we
                        dinosaurs is when they tie things like networking to the GUI.


                        --
                        Scott Robbins
                        PGP keyID EB3467D6
                        ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                        gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                        Buffy: You know, for someone who teaches human behavior, you
                        might try showing some.
                        Professor Walsh:It's not my job to coddle my students.
                        Buffy: You're right. A human being in pain has nothing to do with
                        your job. (leaves)
                        Professor Walsh: I like her.
                        Riley: Really? You don't think she's a little peculiar?
                      • Jane Delawney
                        Just a couple more small points re: newb distros (& stuff :) ): ... They do indeed, which is why I asked; and I m sure there are others out there who have been
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 8, 2010
                          Just a couple more small points re: newb distros (& stuff :) ):

                          On 09/05/10 02:53, Scott wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 12:44:54AM +0100, Jane Delawney wrote:
                          > > Duh. Have been a watcher but not contributor to this list for ages; so
                          > > don't know what the accepted format it. Top post or bottom post?
                          >
                          > Inline. :) That is, answer point A under point A, point B under point
                          > B.
                          > That being said, as you've noticed, people post in all sorts of ways,
                          They do indeed, which is why I asked; and I'm sure there are others out
                          there who have been equally confused, not having access to the knowledge
                          of who might be the 'most technically orientated' or otherwise.
                          >
                          >
                          > -just note again that the majority of the more experienced are more
                          > likely to read a properly formatted post.
                          'properly formatted' well there is the rub indeed - I've many years of
                          experience of reading and contributing to message boards, mailing lists
                          and usenet groups, and have been slapped upside the head by 'experts'
                          all over the place for top posting ... or bottom posting ... or *most
                          often actually* for posting inline 'because it's confusing and bad for
                          people on Digest Mode'.

                          If as an 18+ yr netizen I can't win what can real noobs hope for?


                          >
                          > Wow, no one mentioned Mandriva? Hrrm, I should have thrown in a mention
                          > of it.
                          >
                          >
                          > > I'd highly recommend this underrated, French RH derivative
                          >
                          > I think it lost popularity for several reasons--they were charging for
                          > it
                          Mandrake / Mandriva have indeed charged for their product, but only for
                          the full on professional version of the distro which includes months of
                          technical support (which one could argue is what they charge for).
                          Personally I have only ever used free download versions of Mandrake or
                          Mandriva. They are fully functional and if you want a pure free software
                          version, you can get such a version of Mandy with no trouble. Their
                          website gives full instructions and information about the versions.

                          Even if you want to use a few proprietary modules eg. NVIDIA drivers,
                          you don't have to pay for them, they are free as in beer (but possibly
                          not as in freedom).But that's the same with all distros.

                          > which bothered people, they put in non-open source things, meaning
                          > it was actually useful, back before that was popular, and so on.
                          > However, yes, it's an excellent beginner's distro, that is also used by
                          > the guru. And yes, originally it wsa an RH derivative, the big
                          > difference at the time, back in the late 90's, IIRC, was that they
                          > wanted KDE vs. RH's Gnome.
                          No way I'm going to get into a KDE vs Gnome discussion :)

                          >
                          > > I have a netbook that uses Asus's own little distro, though they now
                          > > seem to have stopped supporting this, which is rather a shame (it's
                          > > Debian by any other name though).
                          >
                          > I never did use it--it was Xandros, a commercial distro based on Debian.
                          > >From what I understood (never having used it, only hearsay) it was
                          > somewhat crippled though.
                          You had to do some savvy googling to avoid setting up repositories which
                          would kill your OS because they'd provide incompatible packages via a
                          plain old apt-get update.

                          However even without updates the Asus distro still *works*, and supports
                          my mobile broadband dongle fine. Just don't expect it to keep up with
                          the smartphone :(


                          > > Dunno if any of that is helpful - but yes, if you're not fond of the
                          > > CLI, it IS possible to use Linux as a GUI OS. I've been doing it for 10
                          > > years with Mandrake / Mandriva, and I don't regret a moment.
                          >
                          > Yup agreed. I'd say the same for most of the desktop distributions now,
                          > which of course, aggravates the heck out of we dinosaurs who prefer
                          > command line. It's not bad to have GUI tools--what aggravates we
                          > dinosaurs is when they tie things like networking to the GUI.
                          Who is 'they' here? I'd always supposed that my complete inability to do
                          networking via CLI was down to my lameness, not to anything the distro
                          developers have done. But I'd definitely be the last person to work it
                          out if that was indeed the case.

                          All I was trying to say was to the original poster: yes, there is at
                          least one more option for you, beyond Ubuntu and the others you
                          mentioned. If I can use a distro as a near-pure GUI OS for 10 years,
                          anyone should be able to use it. Anyone! I'm not advocating the demise
                          of CLI linux. I only wish I had the technical nous to use it! But I
                          don't, I doubt I ever will have, and surely it can't be a bad thing if
                          someone like me can despite everything manage to be Redmond-free for so
                          long.

                          'I'm a PC, and I don't do Windows'.

                          JD
                        • Scott
                          ... Fedora, for one. Though I believe it s improving, and one can now, in theory at least, use their GUI tool NetworkManager without having to have Gnome
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 9, 2010
                            On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 06:04:10AM +0100, Jane Delawney wrote:
                            > Just a couple more small points re: newb distros (& stuff :) ):
                            >
                            > > which of course, aggravates the heck out of we dinosaurs who prefer
                            > > command line. It's not bad to have GUI tools--what aggravates we
                            > > dinosaurs is when they tie things like networking to the GUI.

                            > Who is 'they' here?

                            Fedora, for one. Though I believe it's improving, and one can now, in
                            theory at least, use their GUI tool NetworkManager without having to
                            have Gnome running.


                            I'd always supposed that my complete inability to do
                            > networking via CLI was down to my lameness, not to anything the distro
                            > developers have done. But I'd definitely be the last person to work it
                            > out if that was indeed the case.

                            Nope. For example, with Mint, at one point, I changed the default
                            window manager from Gnome to fluxbox. Suddenly, no network.

                            All such things can usually be fixed, but with so many distributions
                            around, one gets to the point where they figure, why bother? With
                            Fedora (and I'm sure this is true for others), when experienced, one can
                            more or less easily work around it.



                            --
                            Scott Robbins
                            PGP keyID EB3467D6
                            ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                            gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6


                            Giles: This one?
                            Buffy: Amethyst.
                            Giles: Used for?
                            Buffy: Breath mints?
                            Giles: Charm bags, money spells and for cleansing one's aura.
                            Buffy: Okay, so how do you know if one's aura's dirty? Somebody
                            comes by with a finger and writes 'wash me' on it?
                          • Roy
                            I started out in Mandrake around ten years ago. It was my first distro. I remember it with some affection and some dread. I lived through two years of RPM hell
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 9, 2010
                              I started out in Mandrake around ten years ago. It was my first distro. I
                              remember it with some affection and some dread. I lived through two years of
                              RPM hell as it was called then. Now RPM has improved and in some ways it is
                              better than DEB. I really like Fedora's use of Presto where it only
                              downloads delta changes to a package. I hope that Ubuntu decides to
                              implement it. I even belonged to their club for a couple of years at $96 per
                              year which was a lot back then. I have all of my CDs still somewhere in a
                              box.

                              I still use Mandrake occasionally. It is a complete release, although it has
                              nowhere near enough packages for me. Every distro has its strengths and
                              weaknesses. Mandrake can be flaky. It will work really well with one
                              hardware configuration and not even be able to install on another. When I
                              first got this computer four years ago I could not run Mandrake for over a
                              year. Then it caught up to the technology of the time.

                              My biggest beef with Mandrake today is the use of LILO and the fact that it
                              does not detect and install boot loaders for all of my distributions. That
                              being said Mandrake has a good community, good online support, and lots of
                              features worth bragging about. It is an excellent choice if your application
                              requirements are limited. Of the RPM distros it is among my favourites,
                              ahead of openSuSE but behind PCLinuxOS (which was forked from Mandrake) and
                              Fedora which is to my mind the best intermediate distribution there is.

                              One thing that I did notice with the release of Mandriva 2010 last fall was
                              that they managed to get Nvidia with compositing and special effects to work
                              out of the box with Plymouth while Fedora 12 required you to fudge the
                              settings. Even Ubuntu 10.04 with alpha one months later had problems with
                              managing this and mine with 10.04 final looks terrible (lo res kubuntu)
                              until I get the GUI login window. So Mandriva has done lots of good work to
                              achieve what others cannot.

                              Roy

                              On 9 May 2010 06:09, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 06:04:10AM +0100, Jane Delawney wrote:
                              > > Just a couple more small points re: newb distros (& stuff :) ):
                              > >
                              > > > which of course, aggravates the heck out of we dinosaurs who prefer
                              > > > command line. It's not bad to have GUI tools--what aggravates we
                              > > > dinosaurs is when they tie things like networking to the GUI.
                              >
                              > > Who is 'they' here?
                              >
                              > Fedora, for one. Though I believe it's improving, and one can now, in
                              > theory at least, use their GUI tool NetworkManager without having to
                              > have Gnome running.
                              >
                              >
                              > I'd always supposed that my complete inability to do
                              > > networking via CLI was down to my lameness, not to anything the distro
                              > > developers have done. But I'd definitely be the last person to work it
                              > > out if that was indeed the case.
                              >
                              > Nope. For example, with Mint, at one point, I changed the default
                              > window manager from Gnome to fluxbox. Suddenly, no network.
                              >
                              > All such things can usually be fixed, but with so many distributions
                              > around, one gets to the point where they figure, why bother? With
                              > Fedora (and I'm sure this is true for others), when experienced, one can
                              > more or less easily work around it.
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Scott Robbins
                              > PGP keyID EB3467D6
                              > ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                              > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
                              >
                              > Giles: This one?
                              > Buffy: Amethyst.
                              > Giles: Used for?
                              > Buffy: Breath mints?
                              > Giles: Charm bags, money spells and for cleansing one's aura.
                              > Buffy: Okay, so how do you know if one's aura's dirty? Somebody
                              > comes by with a finger and writes 'wash me' on it?
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Scott
                              ... Maybe that reflects their RH roots? I find that Fedora doesn t recognize anything but other RH distros, e.g., CentOS, and, from what I see on the Fedora
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 9, 2010
                                On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 08:27:57AM -0400, Roy wrote:


                                >
                                > My biggest beef with Mandrake today is the use of LILO and the fact that it
                                > does not detect and install boot loaders for all of my distributions.

                                Maybe that reflects their RH roots? I find that Fedora doesn't
                                recognize anything but other RH distros, e.g., CentOS, and, from what I
                                see on the Fedora forums, Windows. (Don't know about that one, I don't
                                have Windows on anything save a single boot machine at work.)

                                --
                                Scott Robbins
                                PGP keyID EB3467D6
                                ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                                gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                                Spike: What's Big Blue doing anyway?
                                The Judge: I am preparing.
                                Spike: It's interesting to me that preparing looks a great bit
                                like sitting on your ass.
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