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Graphics are great, but only when you need them!

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  • rkzbos
    I want to thank those that responded to my first post to this group under New Member (Sun Nov 29). I am thinking about ordering Knoppix For Dummies 2005
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 1, 2009
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      I want to thank those that responded to my first post to this group under New Member (Sun Nov 29). I am thinking about ordering "Knoppix For Dummies 2005 -with a DVD" According to the books description, I could run Knoppix without installing it into my XP computer.

      Because of all of the different Linux flavors (and I do not know what the differences are), I choose Knoppix mainly because I could get it in a dummy book.

      The main reasons why I want to try Linux, is because of my past awful experiences in working with MS Windows. It has been a difficulty since I started with Windows 3.1 back in the early 1990's. The difficulty had a lot to do with the constant upgrading and of course it's commercialism.

      At one point I started to study DOS, and I love learning and using commands in a complete text world, but unfortuanaly I was forced to upgrade the computer to a latter Windows OS and no longer was DOS being supported. I was unhappy when I realized that everything I learn in DOS turned out to be a waste of time. And each Windows OS upgrade brought more problems.

      Finally, I started to search and read about vintage computers and their operating systems and that is when I noticed that the word UNIX, kept showing up. I then found a way to download a Unix telnet program that could work in Windows XP. Shortly after, I found a Unix server and I began studying Unix from a book. (The only problem I have with this Unix program "Puddytel" is that it does not work when I am off line). But I must say Unix is intriguing and it is amazing seeing the internet through LYNX.

      Graphics are great, but only when you need them!

      Questions:

      * I wonder if Knoppix will come with a Unix program with a command line?

      * If I am using Knoppix or another Linux OS, could I control & navigate throughout the OS from a command line?

      * Is the relationship between Unix and Linux like what DOS was to Windows?

      * Should I buy The Linux Bible?

      Thank you
      rkzbos
    • Scott
      ... Well, 2005 is awfully old in the software world. Do you have the ability to download and burn a CD? If so, you re probably better off getting the latest
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 2, 2009
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        On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 05:30:00AM -0000, rkzbos wrote:


        > I want to thank those that responded to my first post to this group under New Member (Sun Nov 29). I am thinking about ordering "Knoppix For Dummies 2005 -with a DVD" According to the books description, I could run Knoppix without installing it into my XP computer.
        >
        Well, 2005 is awfully old in the software world. Do you have the
        ability to download and burn a CD? If so, you're probably better off
        getting the latest Knoppix, or any other desktop distribution's Live CD.

        > Because of all of the different Linux flavors (and I do not know what the differences are), I choose Knoppix mainly because I could get it in a dummy book.
        >
        I understand, but again, 2005 is pretty old. Still, in many ways, not
        too much changes. It starts to get better, then shoots itself in the
        foot, then gets better....


        > The main reasons why I want to try Linux, is because of my past awful experiences in working with MS Windows. It has been a difficulty since I started with Windows 3.1 back in the early 1990's. The difficulty had a lot to do with the constant upgrading and of course it's commercialism.

        > At one point I started to study DOS, and I love learning and using commands in a complete text world, but unfortuanaly I was forced to upgrade the computer to a latter Windows OS and no longer was DOS being supported.

        You can actually still do quite a bit with Windows command line. I'm
        told by those who know it well that it can be suprisingly useful.



        And each Windows OS upgrade brought more problems.

        Heh, you'll find that in most Linux distributions as well.
        Pulseaudio is something that very few people consider to be an
        improvement for sound.

        Between 2.6.29 and 2.6.30 kernels, they managed to lessen the support
        for some Atheros cards, etc. So, keep in mind that stupidity and
        careless programming isn't restricted to commercial operating systems.
        :)


        > Shortly after, I found a Unix server and I began studying Unix from a book. (The only problem I have with this Unix program "Puddytel" is that it does not work when I am off line). But I must say Unix is intriguing and it is amazing seeing the internet through LYNX.
        >
        > Graphics are great, but only when you need them!

        Yeah, good luck convincing Linux developers about that. Rather than
        making wireless drivers, they want to make sure the eye candy is pretty.
        Rather than making sure it will boot properly, they spend their efforts
        hiding the boot process behind a pretty splash screen--like, errm,
        Windows and Mac.

        Unfortunately, what you will often find, in the vast majority of
        available distributions, is that the tendency is to hide more and more
        from the user, and make it more difficult for the power user to veer
        from the defaults. However, all is not lost. :)

        >
        > Questions:
        >
        > * I wonder if Knoppix will come with a Unix program with a command line?

        Yes, they haven't yet considered removing the shell from Linux. In
        almost all desktop environments, if you press alt+F2, it will open a
        command line and you can type

        xterm

        Except in Fedora, which doesn't include it by default, feeling that
        everyone will prefer the more bloated gnome-terminal. :)


        >
        > * If I am using Knoppix or another Linux OS, could I control & navigate throughout the OS from a command line?

        Yes, you can. Despite my ranting above, everything can be done from the
        command line.
        >
        > * Is the relationship between Unix and Linux like what DOS was to Windows?

        Not exactly. A very brief history lesson. Unix was developed pretty
        much by AT&T at Berkeley. Linux itself is actually just the kernel,
        which is little beyond device drivers. Similar to a car chassis, with
        no steering wheel, brake, or accelerator.

        The Gnu founding (which stands for Gnu is Not Unix) created much of the
        original software, all of which was very Unix like. The commands will
        be the same, and indeed, O'Reilly includes RedHat Linux in its Unix
        System Administration Book. (The others are AIX, HP-UX, Solaris, and
        FreeBSD, which is also not officially a Unix. The Berkeley software
        people had years of legal battles with AT&T and eventually completely
        rewrote the code.)

        However, although Linux is not Unix, it's basically the same. Any Unix
        book will be full of commands and scripts, and they all work pretty much
        the same. Ironically, FreeBSD which is a server designed operating
        system, and Unix in all but name, is not, officially, Unix, but Mac OS X
        is. (And, much of its Mach kernel is based on FreeBSD.) Being
        certified as Unix basically means spending a great deal of money.

        So, you can use Linux as you would any Unix system, and if you later
        worked with something like AIX or Solaris, you would find much of it to
        be the same.

        >
        > * Should I buy The Linux Bible?

        I'm not familiar with it. There are so many good books out there, it's
        hard to choose one (or even two or three).

        I remember, years ago, finding Linux for Dummies to be pretty bad--with
        all due respect to Mr. Hall, who wrote it, and has done an enormous
        amount for Linux. The Linux Documentation project is usually pretty bad
        too.

        The free online Rute book is pretty good. (Just search for Rute Linux
        book and you'll find various links to it.) Despite my previous
        paragrahp, the Linux Documentation Project's old guide about installing
        and running Linux, though the installation part is completely outdated,
        has a lot of good introductory stuff to the actual use of Linux.

        As I said, I'm not familiar with The Linux Bible, and it too, may be
        excellent.


        --
        Scott Robbins
        PGP keyID EB3467D6
        ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
        gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

        Jonathon: You think I just want attention?
        Buffy: No, I think you're up here in a clock tower with a
        high-powered rifle because you want to blend in.
      • dbneeley
        There are many introduction to Linux files available for download on the Internet, so buying a book would be unnecessary. There have been many improvements
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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          There are many "introduction to Linux" files available for download on the Internet, so buying a book would be unnecessary.

          There have been many improvements to the underlying operation of Linux since 2005, so a more up to date distribution would be advisable.

          *Every* Linux distribution has a very robust command line capability. In addition, there are a variety of command shells you can choose from. One I am particularly fond of, especially for new users, is called "fish"--available to download and install in most distribution repositories.

          The DOS command interpreter, by the way, was a dumbed-down interpretation of UNIX command shells of 20 or so years ago. By contrast, UNIX/Linux commands are far more flexible and sophisticated, but obviously much more complex to learn because of all the choices and variations.

          If you want to run a Linux system without installing it on your hard drive, instead of running from a CD I suggest instead running from a USB flash drive. Many of the most popular distributions can be installed on a thumb drive or other portable USB-connected media by a very nice little utility called "unetbootin". That has both Windows and Linux versions, too, so you can set it up using your existing Windows system if you wish. That way, since the flash drive is recordable, you can actually customize your configuration and download and run programs on it, unlike using a CD. See <http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/>

          If all you want to do is run command line Linux for now, you might consider a small distribution such as Puppy or Damn Small Linux, both of which are supported via unetbootin among many others.

          Personally, though, I would go with a distribution that has a large repository of pre-configured program binaries.

          David

          LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, "rkzbos" <jackrossini@...> wrote:
          >
          > I want to thank those that responded to my first post to this group under New Member (Sun Nov 29). I am thinking about ordering "Knoppix For Dummies 2005 -with a DVD" According to the books description, I could run Knoppix without installing it into my XP computer.
          >
          > Because of all of the different Linux flavors (and I do not know what the differences are), I choose Knoppix mainly because I could get it in a dummy book.
          >
          > The main reasons why I want to try Linux, is because of my past awful experiences in working with MS Windows. It has been a difficulty since I started with Windows 3.1 back in the early 1990's. The difficulty had a lot to do with the constant upgrading and of course it's commercialism.
          >
          > At one point I started to study DOS, and I love learning and using commands in a complete text world, but unfortuanaly I was forced to upgrade the computer to a latter Windows OS and no longer was DOS being supported. I was unhappy when I realized that everything I learn in DOS turned out to be a waste of time. And each Windows OS upgrade brought more problems.
          >
          > Finally, I started to search and read about vintage computers and their operating systems and that is when I noticed that the word UNIX, kept showing up. I then found a way to download a Unix telnet program that could work in Windows XP. Shortly after, I found a Unix server and I began studying Unix from a book. (The only problem I have with this Unix program "Puddytel" is that it does not work when I am off line). But I must say Unix is intriguing and it is amazing seeing the internet through LYNX.
          >
          > Graphics are great, but only when you need them!
          >
          > Questions:
          >
          > * I wonder if Knoppix will come with a Unix program with a command line?
          >
          > * If I am using Knoppix or another Linux OS, could I control & navigate throughout the OS from a command line?
          >
          > * Is the relationship between Unix and Linux like what DOS was to Windows?
          >
          > * Should I buy The Linux Bible?
          >
          > Thank you
          > rkzbos
          >
        • Roy
          You can run Ubuntu 9.10 from the Live CD and use this resource: http://guvnr.com/pc/karmic-koala-bible/ It is a free online Ubuntu 9.10 Bible. Knoppix was
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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            You can run Ubuntu 9.10 from the Live CD and use this resource:
            http://guvnr.com/pc/karmic-koala-bible/

            It is a free online Ubuntu 9.10 Bible.

            Knoppix was great in its day, but it isn't representative of what is
            happening now with Linux distributions.

            A better option would be to use a usb distribution with persistence so that
            you can install and make changes. Visit http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ for
            instructions. It is dead simple.

            You can also opt for a Wubi installation of Ubuntu if you use Windows. See:
            http://wubi-installer.org/

            There are many possibilities to explore Linux without much experience or
            knowledge.

            Roy



            2009/12/3 dbneeley <dbneeley@...>

            >
            >
            > There are many "introduction to Linux" files available for download on the
            > Internet, so buying a book would be unnecessary.
            >
            > There have been many improvements to the underlying operation of Linux
            > since 2005, so a more up to date distribution would be advisable.
            >
            > *Every* Linux distribution has a very robust command line capability. In
            > addition, there are a variety of command shells you can choose from. One I
            > am particularly fond of, especially for new users, is called
            > "fish"--available to download and install in most distribution repositories.
            >
            > The DOS command interpreter, by the way, was a dumbed-down interpretation
            > of UNIX command shells of 20 or so years ago. By contrast, UNIX/Linux
            > commands are far more flexible and sophisticated, but obviously much more
            > complex to learn because of all the choices and variations.
            >
            > If you want to run a Linux system without installing it on your hard drive,
            > instead of running from a CD I suggest instead running from a USB flash
            > drive. Many of the most popular distributions can be installed on a thumb
            > drive or other portable USB-connected media by a very nice little utility
            > called "unetbootin". That has both Windows and Linux versions, too, so you
            > can set it up using your existing Windows system if you wish. That way,
            > since the flash drive is recordable, you can actually customize your
            > configuration and download and run programs on it, unlike using a CD. See <
            > http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/>
            >
            > If all you want to do is run command line Linux for now, you might consider
            > a small distribution such as Puppy or Damn Small Linux, both of which are
            > supported via unetbootin among many others.
            >
            > Personally, though, I would go with a distribution that has a large
            > repository of pre-configured program binaries.
            >
            > David
            >
            >
            > LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com <LINUX_Newbies%40yahoogroups.com>, "rkzbos"
            > <jackrossini@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I want to thank those that responded to my first post to this group under
            > New Member (Sun Nov 29). I am thinking about ordering "Knoppix For Dummies
            > 2005 -with a DVD" According to the books description, I could run Knoppix
            > without installing it into my XP computer.
            > >
            > > Because of all of the different Linux flavors (and I do not know what the
            > differences are), I choose Knoppix mainly because I could get it in a dummy
            > book.
            > >
            > > The main reasons why I want to try Linux, is because of my past awful
            > experiences in working with MS Windows. It has been a difficulty since I
            > started with Windows 3.1 back in the early 1990's. The difficulty had a lot
            > to do with the constant upgrading and of course it's commercialism.
            > >
            > > At one point I started to study DOS, and I love learning and using
            > commands in a complete text world, but unfortuanaly I was forced to upgrade
            > the computer to a latter Windows OS and no longer was DOS being supported. I
            > was unhappy when I realized that everything I learn in DOS turned out to be
            > a waste of time. And each Windows OS upgrade brought more problems.
            > >
            > > Finally, I started to search and read about vintage computers and their
            > operating systems and that is when I noticed that the word UNIX, kept
            > showing up. I then found a way to download a Unix telnet program that could
            > work in Windows XP. Shortly after, I found a Unix server and I began
            > studying Unix from a book. (The only problem I have with this Unix program
            > "Puddytel" is that it does not work when I am off line). But I must say Unix
            > is intriguing and it is amazing seeing the internet through LYNX.
            > >
            > > Graphics are great, but only when you need them!
            > >
            > > Questions:
            > >
            > > * I wonder if Knoppix will come with a Unix program with a command line?
            > >
            > > * If I am using Knoppix or another Linux OS, could I control & navigate
            > throughout the OS from a command line?
            > >
            > > * Is the relationship between Unix and Linux like what DOS was to
            > Windows?
            > >
            > > * Should I buy The Linux Bible?
            > >
            > > Thank you
            > > rkzbos
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Darksyde
            ... From personal experience the Dummies books are decent but, as others have said, you want to get something more up-to-date than 2005 if you plan to actually
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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              --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, "rkzbos" <jackrossini@...> wrote:
              >
              > I want to thank those that responded to my first post to this group under New Member (Sun Nov 29). I am thinking about ordering "Knoppix For Dummies 2005 -with a DVD" According to the books description, I could run Knoppix without installing it into my XP computer.
              >
              > Because of all of the different Linux flavors (and I do not know what the differences are), I choose Knoppix mainly because I could get it in a dummy book.
              >
              > The main reasons why I want to try Linux, is because of my past awful experiences in working with MS Windows. It has been a difficulty since I started with Windows 3.1 back in the early 1990's. The difficulty had a lot to do with the constant upgrading and of course it's commercialism.
              >
              > At one point I started to study DOS, and I love learning and using commands in a complete text world, but unfortuanaly I was forced to upgrade the computer to a latter Windows OS and no longer was DOS being supported. I was unhappy when I realized that everything I learn in DOS turned out to be a waste of time. And each Windows OS upgrade brought more problems.
              >
              > Finally, I started to search and read about vintage computers and their operating systems and that is when I noticed that the word UNIX, kept showing up. I then found a way to download a Unix telnet program that could work in Windows XP. Shortly after, I found a Unix server and I began studying Unix from a book. (The only problem I have with this Unix program "Puddytel" is that it does not work when I am off line). But I must say Unix is intriguing and it is amazing seeing the internet through LYNX.
              >
              > Graphics are great, but only when you need them!
              >
              > Questions:
              >
              > * I wonder if Knoppix will come with a Unix program with a command line?
              >
              > * If I am using Knoppix or another Linux OS, could I control & navigate throughout the OS from a command line?
              >
              > * Is the relationship between Unix and Linux like what DOS was to Windows?
              >
              > * Should I buy The Linux Bible?
              >
              > Thank you
              > rkzbos
              >
              From personal experience the Dummies books are decent but, as others have said, you want to get something more up-to-date than 2005 if you plan to actually install that particular distro. But one of the great things about Linux distro's is that most can be run "live" so you don't have to commit to one flavor without trying it first.
              Knoppix is only one of many distro's which are available with a "For Dummies" book and there are several that, IMO, are more user-friendly, such as Ubuntu. You might check with your local library to see if they have "Ubuntu for Dummies" or any other of the books for that matter. There's no need to buy one if you can borrow one from the library, and of course it still comes with the CD or DVD.
              Another suggestion is to simply download and burn your own disk but, again, you may want to start with a distro that is a bit easier such as Puppy or SimplyMEPIS. My first Linux experience was with "OpenSUSE for Dummies" and, quite frankly, I didn't like it for what I later discovered was its desktop. This may sound silly but after trying several Linux distro's I realized that I hated the KDE desktop which many people prefer. My point is that you may be dissuaded from Linux for a minor reason that is not an issue with another distro. One such issue is whether the system recognizes your hardware, esp. your wifi card, video and sound card and printer. Unless I'm mistaken, Ubuntu is still one of the best for hardware recognition.
              Lastly, should you prefer to buy a disk rather than burn one (I felt this way for a year or so), consider sites such as DistroWatch http://distrowatch.com/ There you have the option of downloading the iso file or purchasing a disk or thumbdrive. Incidentally, there's a "Linux Starter Kit" (magazine with disk) available with Ubuntu 9.04 for U.S. $14.99 at http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/
              Sorry for getting carried away but I know how intimidating the initial dive into Linux can be and sometimes no one can help a newb like another newb.
              Mark
              Linux Mint 6 (Felicia)
              P.S. As I remember the Linux Bible is pretty good for reference but you'll probably find it better to begin with a book, magazine or PDF dedicated to the specific distro you are using.
            • J
              ... And it should also be said that, distro to distro, in GENERAL, they are all the same. The dressing may be a bit different, but underneath they are all the
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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                On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:42, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:

                >  From personal experience the Dummies books are decent but, as others have said,
                > you want to get something more up-to-date than 2005 if you plan to actually install that
                > particular distro.  But one of the great things about Linux distro's is that most can be
                > run "live" so you don't have to commit to one flavor without trying it first.

                And it should also be said that, distro to distro, in GENERAL, they
                are all the same. The dressing may be a bit different, but underneath
                they are all the same.

                Take cars for instance.

                All cars are the same. They all have tires, brakes, transmission,
                differential, suspension, engine, etc. They are all propelled exactly
                the same way. The difference is mere window dressing.

                Some cars have automatic transmissions, some manual. Some have soft
                suspensions for comfort, some have stiff suspensions for performance.
                Some have small, economical engines, some have large, powerful ones.
                Some have engines that work with batteries to drive the wheels. Some
                have 4 doors, some have more or less doors... but they all have and do
                the same things, just in slightly different ways.

                Linux Distributions are like that. Some use RPM, some use DEB. Some
                have GNOME, some have KDE, some have other window managers, or none at
                all.

                But underneath, they all have the same commands, the same shells
                (terminals), the same kernel (accepting minor differences for drivers
                and kernel patches). They all log using syslogd, they all support
                internal network routing. They all use and can access the same
                filesystems.

                And as far as the GUI goes, as long as you have experience using them,
                you can use them all, you just have to find where the various things
                are hidden in each one (which menu holds system settings, and which
                one holds GUI settings, for instance).

                There've been some good recommendations on distros in this thread
                other posts in this group, I won't add to them, but i will second the
                suggestion that you find a few that offer live cds and try them out.
                You may hate the first one you try, but love the second one. You may
                go through three or four that you like, then find one that fits you.

                This also makes me wonder. Do LUGs (Linux User Groups) still do
                installfests? Back in the day, installfests were big deals, and I
                participated in many in my home LUG, and after going to work for Red
                Hat, I participated as a Red Hat employee at several others, and I
                know that other distro companies also sent reps out to installfests
                around the world to help people out and introduce them to LInux.

                So even if they don't do installfests, looking for a local LUG is an
                excellent way of A: making new friends, B: learning about linux, and
                C: having a face to face group that you can talk to and actually show,
                in person, what problem you're having...

                Cheers
                Jeff



                --

                Mike Ditka - "If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have
                given us arms." -
                http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mike_ditka.html
              • Scott
                ... Hrrm, nwo that I think of it, it seems that the nylug hasn t had one for a very long time. It s so much easier to install these days, the need has
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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                  On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 12:43:35PM -0500, J wrote:
                  > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:42, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > This also makes me wonder. Do LUGs (Linux User Groups) still do
                  > installfests? Back in the day, installfests were big deals, and I
                  > participated in many in my home LUG, and after going to work for Red
                  > Hat, I participated as a Red Hat employee at several others, and I
                  > know that other distro companies also sent reps out to installfests
                  > around the world to help people out and introduce them to LInux.

                  Hrrm, nwo that I think of it, it seems that the nylug hasn't had one for
                  a very long time. It's so much easier to install these days, the need
                  has diminished, I guess.



                  --
                  Scott Robbins
                  PGP keyID EB3467D6
                  ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                  Spike: Nasty sort of fellow. Lucky for you blighters I was
                  here, eh?
                  Giles: Yes. Thank you. Although your heroism is slightly muted by the
                  fact that you were helping Adam to start a war that would kill us
                  all.
                  Xander: You probably just saved us so we wouldn't stake you right
                  here.
                  Spike: Well, yeah. Did it work?
                • J
                  ... nwo? Freudian slip? Do you bow before our new global overlords? ;-) Ya know, it dawned on me that this is actually pretty sad, and a failing. Sure,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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                    On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 13:08, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                    > On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 12:43:35PM -0500, J wrote:
                    >> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:42, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> This also makes me wonder.  Do LUGs (Linux User Groups) still do
                    >> installfests?  Back in the day, installfests were big deals, and I
                    >> participated in many in my home LUG, and after going to work for Red
                    >> Hat, I participated as a Red Hat employee at several others, and I
                    >> know that other distro companies also sent reps out to installfests
                    >> around the world to help people out and introduce them to LInux.
                    >
                    > Hrrm, nwo that I think of it, it seems that the nylug hasn't had one for
                    > a very long time. It's so much easier to install these days, the need
                    > has diminished, I guess.

                    nwo? Freudian slip? Do you bow before our new global overlords? ;-)

                    Ya know, it dawned on me that this is actually pretty sad, and a
                    failing. Sure, installfests were great for getting Linux installed,
                    but just because any n00b with a cd burner can download an iso and
                    boot a disk can do it these days does not negate the need for such a
                    thing...

                    For example, and not picking on rkzbos specifically, but he's talking
                    about buying a Dummies book and installing from that. This is EXACTLY
                    what installfests were all about. Not just getting it installed,
                    though believe me, I did some where a single install was an all day
                    marathon (and one involved Doug DeJulio rewriting a network driver on
                    the spot).

                    But this seems like a great idea for introduction... Install Linux,
                    and walk the user through the process, plus have some lectures, or
                    various open sessions or BOF sessions or something like that to
                    educate the new users beyond "Here's your CD, have a nice day"...

                    Plus, the ones I went to usually had a beer cooler too ;-)


                    --

                    Samuel Goldwyn - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be
                    right, but I am never wrong." -
                    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html
                  • Darksyde
                    ... Now that sounds like a great way to be introduced to Linux! I, sadly, live in a small city where about a dozen people whom I ve talked to know the least
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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                      --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, J <dreadpiratejeff@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 13:08, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                      > > On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 12:43:35PM -0500, J wrote:
                      > >> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:42, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> This also makes me wonder.  Do LUGs (Linux User Groups) still do
                      > >> installfests?  Back in the day, installfests were big deals, and I
                      > >> participated in many in my home LUG, and after going to work for Red
                      > >> Hat, I participated as a Red Hat employee at several others, and I
                      > >> know that other distro companies also sent reps out to installfests
                      > >> around the world to help people out and introduce them to LInux.
                      > >
                      > > Hrrm, nwo that I think of it, it seems that the nylug hasn't had one for
                      > > a very long time. It's so much easier to install these days, the need
                      > > has diminished, I guess.
                      >
                      > nwo? Freudian slip? Do you bow before our new global overlords? ;-)
                      >
                      > Ya know, it dawned on me that this is actually pretty sad, and a
                      > failing. Sure, installfests were great for getting Linux installed,
                      > but just because any n00b with a cd burner can download an iso and
                      > boot a disk can do it these days does not negate the need for such a
                      > thing...
                      >
                      > For example, and not picking on rkzbos specifically, but he's talking
                      > about buying a Dummies book and installing from that. This is EXACTLY
                      > what installfests were all about. Not just getting it installed,
                      > though believe me, I did some where a single install was an all day
                      > marathon (and one involved Doug DeJulio rewriting a network driver on
                      > the spot).
                      >
                      > But this seems like a great idea for introduction... Install Linux,
                      > and walk the user through the process, plus have some lectures, or
                      > various open sessions or BOF sessions or something like that to
                      > educate the new users beyond "Here's your CD, have a nice day"...
                      >
                      > Plus, the ones I went to usually had a beer cooler too ;-)
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      > Samuel Goldwyn - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be
                      > right, but I am never wrong." -
                      > http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html
                      >
                      Now that sounds like a great way to be introduced to Linux! I, sadly, live in a small city where about a dozen people whom I've talked to know the least thing about Linux, and only one or two have used it. Fortunately there's a library, a great source for Dummies guides which do come in handy when there are no people around to help.
                      I'm not sure where Jack lives but I later found that there is a LUG about 30 miles from here so I hope he will check into that option too. What's the site where LUG contact information is listed?
                      Mark
                      P.S. I wonder about the market potential for "Tux Beer".
                    • J
                      ... I don t know any more... You used to be able to find info on LUGs at the various Distro websites, linux.org, and places like that... I haven t really
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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                        On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 17:00, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:

                        >  Now that sounds like a great way to be introduced to Linux!  I, sadly, live in a small city
                        > where about a dozen people whom I've talked to know the least thing about Linux, and
                        > only one or two have used it.  Fortunately there's a library, a great source for Dummies
                        > guides which do come in handy when there are no people around to help.
                        >  I'm not sure where Jack lives but I later found that there is a LUG about 30 miles from here
                        > so I hope he will check into that option too.  What's the site where LUG contact
                        > information is listed?
                        >  Mark
                        >  P.S. I wonder about the market potential for "Tux Beer".

                        I don't know any more... You used to be able to find info on LUGs at
                        the various Distro websites, linux.org, and places like that... I
                        haven't really looked in a long time.

                        MOst, if not all, of them though, have their own websites, so you can
                        probably find them by searching for Linux User Group in your area and
                        cities around you...

                        As for beer... I don't know... could be an interesting idea.

                        There was, and maybe still is, an open source cola though, years
                        ago... it was pretty tasty... kinda like an RC Cola if you're from the
                        south and know what RC is. You could get their exact recipe and
                        HOWTOs for making it from their website, and the recipe was even
                        printed on the cans at one point. I came home with a whole case of
                        that stuff from OSCON and loved every drop...

                        In fact, here's their wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_(drink)

                        Cheers,

                        Jeff



                        --

                        Joan Crawford - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar.
                        Everything I earn, I spend." -
                        http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html
                      • Bruce Kemp
                        ... I found this http://freebeer.org/blog/recipe/ Bruce -- Registered Linux user number 482434. Nudists are people who wear one-button suits.
                        Message 11 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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                          J wrote:
                          > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 17:00, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >> P.S. I wonder about the market potential for "Tux Beer".
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          I found this http://freebeer.org/blog/recipe/
                          Bruce

                          --
                          Registered Linux user number 482434.

                          Nudists are people who wear one-button suits.
                        • dbneeley
                          Linux User Group list: David
                          Message 12 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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                            Linux User Group list:

                            <http://www.linux.org/groups/>

                            David


                            --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, J <dreadpiratejeff@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 17:00, Darksyde <m_alexander61@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >  Now that sounds like a great way to be introduced to Linux!  I, sadly, live in a small city
                            > > where about a dozen people whom I've talked to know the least thing about Linux, and
                            > > only one or two have used it.
                            > I don't know any more... You used to be able to find info on LUGs at
                            > the various Distro websites, linux.org, and places like that... I
                            > haven't really looked in a long time.
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