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Re: Windows7 vs Ubuntu 9.10

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  • loyal_barber
    see below ... Ouch Roy that was harsh. I like you so please take this as intended. That was way harsh. Since this is a Newbies group I suggest we will always
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 31, 2009
      see below

      --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
      >
      > And your point is...????
      >
      > <snip>

      Ouch Roy that was harsh. I like you so please take this as intended.
      That was way harsh. Since this is a Newbies group I suggest we will
      always have the Linux vs. Windows type posts. Just let the next one go.

      Thanks,
      Loyal
    • Roy
      It is a cruel world, what can I say. The world is full of enough contamination that we don t need more here. In the past week I have read thirty similar
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 2009
        It is a cruel world, what can I say. The world is full of enough
        contamination that we don't need more here. In the past week I have read
        thirty similar comparisons, including that one. There was even a good one
        that showed ten or more features that Microsoft claims to have invented, but
        were stolen from Linux and OS/X.

        The last place I expect to see one is in a help forum for Linux. I can get
        them anytime I want. I come here to help and not be propagandized. This is
        Linux board not a Windows promotion platform. It would have been fine had if
        shown the features of Ubuntu (or any other distro) only.

        As soon as Windows is mentioned it invites response and usually it causes
        problems. The hatchets come out (mine included) and Microsoft's name gets
        dragged through the mud (again). Feelings get hurt. Been there. Done that.

        If we are to mature we need to get past any inferiority complex that we may
        have and stop making comparisons. It only succeeds in reinforcing in the
        minds of users that Windows measures up and it doesn't. I just finished
        reading an article written by a former Microsoft employee that says that
        while Windows 7 may stop the bleeding for now, the end game is unchanged.
        The future of operating systems is Linux.

        Mark Shuttleworth has a vested interest in getting users to switch. He has
        invested lots of his own money in Ubuntu. I respect that, but make no
        mistake, he expects to profit from it in the long run. Personally I don't
        care about his timelines for this.

        Linux is what it is. Take it or leave it. We don't need to be number one in
        sales, just in user experience. Our strength is not in our numbers, but our
        approach which is user and community based software freedom. Most people who
        come to Linux get it. They see that we offer something radically different.
        To put us in the same boat as Windows 7 is to do us a grave dissservice.

        I respect that Scott and some of the rest of you use both Windows and Linux.
        I do not. I am Microsoft free and proud of it. There is a dichotomy here.
        The two operating systems are like night and day and should be kept in
        separate boxes (and forums), IMO.

        Roy

        2009/11/1 loyal_barber <loyal_barber@...>

        >
        >
        >
        >
        > see below
        >
        >
        > --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com <LINUX_Newbies%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > And your point is...????
        > >
        > > <snip>
        >
        > Ouch Roy that was harsh. I like you so please take this as intended.
        > That was way harsh. Since this is a Newbies group I suggest we will
        > always have the Linux vs. Windows type posts. Just let the next one go.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Loyal
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scott
        ... Thanks for the explanation. I m not sure I agree with it, but at least it s clearer to me. ... I think Mr. Shuttleworth has done a great deal for Linux,
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 1, 2009
          On Sun, Nov 01, 2009 at 09:07:34AM -0400, Roy wrote:

          > It is a cruel world, what can I say. The world is full of enough

          > contamination that we don't need more here. In the past week I have read
          > thirty similar comparisons, including that one. There was even a good one
          > that showed ten or more features that Microsoft claims to have invented, but
          > were stolen from Linux and OS/X.

          Thanks for the explanation. I'm not sure I agree with it, but at least
          it's clearer to me.

          >
          > Mark Shuttleworth has a vested interest in getting users to switch. He has
          > invested lots of his own money in Ubuntu. I respect that, but make no
          > mistake, he expects to profit from it in the long run. Personally I don't
          > care about his timelines for this.

          I think Mr. Shuttleworth has done a great deal for Linux, getting
          desktop vendors to look at it as something to be noticed. Only since
          Ubuntu have I noticed various vendors mentioning Linux support.

          >
          >
          > I respect that Scott and some of the rest of you use both Windows and Linux.


          Bite your tongue, sirrah! Or at least your fingers. :-) (But not
          hard, it could be painful.)


          I don't use it at home--at work, I only use it to test various things
          that I have implemented on Linux to make sure that it will work for the
          users. However, I am fortunate in that my job involves almost no MS
          support.


          --
          Scott Robbins
          PGP keyID EB3467D6
          ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
          gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

          Xander: Jeez. You mean Oz just sent for his stuff and didn't even
          call her? That's pretty harsh.
          Anya: I only wish I had my powers back. I'd liquefy his entrails
          for her.
          Xander: That's sweet.
        • J
          ... I would agree with you Roy, except on one thing... this is the NEWBIES list... and thus, it s expected that the people who come here seeking help and
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 2, 2009
            On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 08:07, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:

            > The last place I expect to see one is in a help forum for Linux. I can get
            > them anytime I want. I come here to help and not be propagandized. This is
            > Linux board not a Windows promotion platform. It would have been fine had if
            > shown the features of Ubuntu (or any other distro) only.
            >
            > As soon as Windows is mentioned it invites response and usually it causes
            > problems. The hatchets come out (mine included) and Microsoft's name gets
            > dragged through the mud (again). Feelings get hurt. Been there. Done that.

            I would agree with you Roy, except on one thing... this is the NEWBIES
            list... and thus, it's expected that the people who come here seeking
            help and answers are just that, newbies with little to no experience.
            Now, they HAD to come from somewhere... and it's a 98% certainty that
            they came from Windows.

            So while the typical Windows Vs Linux discussion IS overdone and
            annoying even at the best of times, for the newbies that come here
            from that world, allowing them to ask the questions "Why is Linux
            better than Windows," or "I can do X in Windows, how can I do it in
            Linux?" and discussing the reasons behind that is informative and
            educational.

            > I respect that Scott and some of the rest of you use both Windows and Linux.
            > I do not. I am Microsoft free and proud of it. There is a dichotomy here.
            > The two operating systems are like night and day and should be kept in
            > separate boxes (and forums), IMO.

            I'd agree with you about keeping them separate IF the question is "How
            do I get X to run on my Vista machine?" but other such things I have
            no problem with at all. HOWEVER, that feeling ONLY applies here. I
            would not tolerate the same discussion on Linux@, RedHat@ or any of
            the other non-newbie lists I'm on.

            If you can be 100% MS free, I am proud of you, and say
            congratulations. I can't say the same... I need a Windows system to
            handle certain tasks, and for my wife, because try as I might, she
            just can't get the hang of Linux.

            Both are just tools. Neither OS is the saviour of the human race,
            neither is any more important to me than a couple of hammers, or
            chainsaws. Both are tools, both have their uses, both have their pros
            and cons.

            At one time I was an OS zealot but grew out of it because it's really
            kind of pointless to say My hammer is better than your hammer and I
            refuse to use your hammer at all!.

            Anyway, I'm glad you stand up for your beliefs... that's very
            important in this day and age, and I respect you greatly for it.

            Cheers
            Jeff


            --

            Jonathan Swift - "May you live every day of your life." -
            http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html
          • Roy
            Written while grumpy ;) Last time that I checked it is called LINUX_Newbies and not Windows-LINUX_Newbies. The problem is that most users need to forget about
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 2, 2009
              Written while grumpy ;)

              Last time that I checked it is called LINUX_Newbies and not
              Windows-LINUX_Newbies.

              The problem is that most users need to forget about Windows when they
              migrate to Linux. If they try to apply Windows thinking to Linux they get
              confused. There is no c: drive. Get used to it.

              You also introduce foreign ideas that have no place or serve little purpose.
              You get such things as How to defragment a hard drive. There is a reason why
              this is hard to do in Linux. There is little or no use for it. The same can
              be said for anti-viruses. They don't work as in Windows because we don't
              have a problem, yet. If there was a problem someone would devise a better
              solution.

              Many problems that new users have in Linux can be resolved if they change
              their thinking and thought like a Linux user. If they don't then they will
              become frustrated and find the transition harder than it needs to be.

              There are a few things that are basic.

              1) Linux uses a different file system. Forget about Windows file system and
              its naming restrictions. Learn the Linux way.

              2) Linux can read and write to Windows file systems but Windows can't. It
              needs help of third party software.

              3) Windows programmes were written for Windows. Don't be surprised that they
              don't work in a different operating system. There are no such things as .exe
              files in Linux. In fact there are few suffixes to worry about at all.

              4) You don't have to hunt software or go to the store to find it.
              Applications are stored centrally in repositories that are maintained in
              safe and secure places. It is for your convenience and protection.

              5) Hardware may be the same, but Linux handles the hardware differently. You
              don't need driver disks because the kernel handles most of the chores. There
              are rare exceptions to standard practice.

              6) Security in Linux is considered a serious matter. Get used to giving
              passwords. They exist for your protection.

              7) Linux does not have a central registry that can become bloated,
              fragmented and defective, rendering your system useless.

              8) The loading process is different. It is modular. Things that you don't
              need to know about are hidden and reserved in areas that you should not
              access unless you know what you are doing.

              If people cannot live with these basic facts then they should stick to
              Windows. If they want Linux then they should think Linux.

              Most people do get it. They understand that Linux is a different operating
              system, but by always referencing things to windows we are doing ourselves a
              disservice. They ask good how do you do this or that questions.

              Windows does not need any promotion. The Microsoft spin doctors are out
              there. They are spending $300 million on marketing Windows 7. We do not need
              to do the job for them.

              I realize that I am a Linux advocate. Not everybody is. I am not paid to do
              it. I do it because I can. I have the time to do it because unlike many
              people I don't have a 9 - 5 commitment. It is frustrating when I find Linux
              people playing into the hands of those who are opposed to Linux. The battle
              between Windows and open source has not even begun. We are seen as their
              number one competitor, even though Apple has a greater market share. The
              reason is that Apple has its own hardware, but Linux competes for the same
              PC market.

              Any press for Windows furthers Windows and makes our work harder. I found
              the piece that was posted to be unnecessary and out of place on a help
              forum. This is all I will say on the matter. I just urge people to reflect a
              bit before they post pieces about Windows and Microsoft.

              Roy

              2009/11/2 J <dreadpiratejeff@...>

              >
              >
              > On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 08:07, Roy <linuxcanuck@...<linuxcanuck%40gmail.com>>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > The last place I expect to see one is in a help forum for Linux. I can
              > get
              > > them anytime I want. I come here to help and not be propagandized. This
              > is
              > > Linux board not a Windows promotion platform. It would have been fine had
              > if
              > > shown the features of Ubuntu (or any other distro) only.
              > >
              > > As soon as Windows is mentioned it invites response and usually it causes
              > > problems. The hatchets come out (mine included) and Microsoft's name gets
              > > dragged through the mud (again). Feelings get hurt. Been there. Done
              > that.
              >
              > I would agree with you Roy, except on one thing... this is the NEWBIES
              > list... and thus, it's expected that the people who come here seeking
              > help and answers are just that, newbies with little to no experience.
              > Now, they HAD to come from somewhere... and it's a 98% certainty that
              > they came from Windows.
              >
              > So while the typical Windows Vs Linux discussion IS overdone and
              > annoying even at the best of times, for the newbies that come here
              > from that world, allowing them to ask the questions "Why is Linux
              > better than Windows," or "I can do X in Windows, how can I do it in
              > Linux?" and discussing the reasons behind that is informative and
              > educational.
              >
              > > I respect that Scott and some of the rest of you use both Windows and
              > Linux.
              > > I do not. I am Microsoft free and proud of it. There is a dichotomy here.
              > > The two operating systems are like night and day and should be kept in
              > > separate boxes (and forums), IMO.
              >
              > I'd agree with you about keeping them separate IF the question is "How
              > do I get X to run on my Vista machine?" but other such things I have
              > no problem with at all. HOWEVER, that feeling ONLY applies here. I
              > would not tolerate the same discussion on Linux@, RedHat@ or any of
              > the other non-newbie lists I'm on.
              >
              > If you can be 100% MS free, I am proud of you, and say
              > congratulations. I can't say the same... I need a Windows system to
              > handle certain tasks, and for my wife, because try as I might, she
              > just can't get the hang of Linux.
              >
              > Both are just tools. Neither OS is the saviour of the human race,
              > neither is any more important to me than a couple of hammers, or
              > chainsaws. Both are tools, both have their uses, both have their pros
              > and cons.
              >
              > At one time I was an OS zealot but grew out of it because it's really
              > kind of pointless to say My hammer is better than your hammer and I
              > refuse to use your hammer at all!.
              >
              > Anyway, I'm glad you stand up for your beliefs... that's very
              > important in this day and age, and I respect you greatly for it.
              >
              > Cheers
              > Jeff
              >
              > --
              >
              > Jonathan Swift - "May you live every day of your life." -
              > http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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