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Linux is working too well

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  • Roy Charles
    I am getting antsy. Linux is working so well that I have nothing to do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is coming out. Compiz
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
      I am getting antsy. Linux is working so well that I have nothing to do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is coming out. Compiz fusion works perfectly in my two main distros (MEPIS and Kubuntu). I have AWN working in both. Wine works perfectly. VM Server and Virtualbox work perfectly. Virtualbox is seamless. I have every possible bit of eye candy or application working perfectly. I have KDE 4 (don't like it yet), XFCE, Fluxbox, and Enlightenment. I have Firefox 3 and the latest Thunderbird. Spam is under control and I have no virus problems. What to do?

      I have Sabayon to play with, but I have just about exhausted the possibilities there. I could download Hardy Heron and expect a few crashes since it isn't quite ready for prime time. I could try the OpenSUSE alphas I guess.

      I have a copy of OS/X that I could try to run. There are several Hackintosh sites that tell how to run it on a PC, but somehow it seems disloyal.

      For once, I am beginning to hope that something breaks. I am not so lucky. Try as I may I can't break Linux. It just works. If I can't find something new to do, I will have to boot into Windows and I haven't done that since before Christmas. I know what that means, lots of updates and re-booting.

      Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the commercials. Any suggestions?

      ;)






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    • Robert C Wittig
      ... Start writing shell scripts in bash, or one of the other shells. C/C++ is a pretty interesting language, and most of *nix is written in it. Are you using
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
        Roy Charles wrote:

        > Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the commercials. Any suggestions?
        >

        Start writing shell scripts in bash, or one of the other shells.

        C/C++ is a pretty interesting language, and most of *nix is written in it.

        Are you using cron to automate any maintenance tasks, like sending you
        your system logs every morning?

        Have you started working on developing a firewall ruleset with IP Tables?

        Do you have a Windows computer, and if so, do you have Samba set up?


        --
        -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/
        http://robertwittig.net/
        http://robertwittig.org/
        .
      • Scott
        ... Hardy s pretty smooth actually. Fedora Rawhide sounds good for you--each update breaks something new. :) ... Also illegal. Apple, doing the sort of thing
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
          On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 06:33:51PM -0800, Roy Charles wrote:


          >
          > I have Sabayon to play with, but I have just about exhausted the possibilities there. I could download Hardy Heron and expect a few crashes since it isn't quite ready for prime time. I could try the OpenSUSE alphas I guess.
          >

          Hardy's pretty smooth actually. Fedora Rawhide sounds good for you--each
          update breaks something new. :)

          > I have a copy of OS/X that I could try to run. There are several Hackintosh sites that tell how to run it on a PC, but somehow it seems disloyal.
          >

          Also illegal. Apple, doing the sort of thing that makes people call MS
          bad names, says that you are not allowed to run it on non-Apple
          hardware. Can you imagine if MS said, you can only run Windows on
          hardware X?

          However, that's neither here nor there--note that just about everyone
          who posts how they got a Hackintosh going takes pains to hide their
          identity.


          > For once, I am beginning to hope that something breaks. I am not so lucky. Try as I may I can't break Linux. It just works. If I can't find something new to do, I will have to boot into Windows and I haven't done that since before Christmas. I know what that means, lots of updates and re-booting.
          >
          Get a new cheap laptop and try to get wireless working. :)
          I have as much respect for laptop and wireless card manufacturers as I
          do for Apple. :) I think they're all, to use a mature word, doodie
          heads.


          > Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the commercials. Any suggestions?

          All the above, save for the warning about Hackintosh and mentioning it
          publicly--so far, you're fine, you've said you won't do it--were tongue
          in cheek, though there's truth to most of them.

          To be serious, it really depends what you want to do. For instance, if
          you find yourself more interested in trying the command line, ArchLinux
          might be good, it has no GUI configuration tools, but does have
          excellent docs on its wiki.

          Otherwise, the next challenge is to get various applications that make
          you boot into Windows working on your favorite Linux distribution. You
          might try Wine, you might need VMWare or VirtualBox.

          That's often the next step though, for those who really want to step
          away from MS.

          It's good to hear the success stories. It shows how far Linux has come.
          I remember 10 years ago or so, someone writing he knew lots of people
          who had installed Linux but few who were doing any real work with it.

          My page on Japanese in Linux gradually gets shorter and shorter--it used
          to be quite complex, now it's usually
          [yum|apt-get|pacman|emerge]scim-anthy and as the British say, Robert is
          your parent's sibling.


          --
          Scott Robbins
          PGP keyID EB3467D6
          ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
          gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

          Cordelia: I do what I want to do. And I wear what I want to wear.
          And you know what, I'll date whoever the hell I want to date...
          no matter how lame he is.
        • dr_ovalle
          If you want something not to work in Linux, maybe you should try running it in a brand new Acer laptop. Acer is Linux-unfriendly. I bought this brand new Acer
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
            If you want something not to work in Linux, maybe you should try
            running it in a brand new Acer laptop. Acer is Linux-unfriendly.

            I bought this brand new Acer Aspire 5050-4872, Linpus preinstalled,
            specifically to learn Linux. This is a low price laptop, it costs
            about $800.00 US Dlls here in Mexico. I couldn't even make it work
            OTB, it started in text mode... no way to start an X screen. I asked
            for help to the Linux user group and we spend three hours trying to
            make it work, until they gave up. Then I started trying distros.
            After months trying I finally make to work wifi, the battery is
            recognized since last week, the audio took me a couple of weeks, there
            is no way to make work properly the special hot keys in the keyboard,
            Linux doesn't know yet this machine has Bluetooth and a webcam, but it
            will know I hope, I just need to google a lot more.

            I periodically spend some money in donations to support development,
            all my donations have been to the Sabayon Project. I think this guy,
            Fabio Erculiani is making a great job. I will be happy, if one day I
            try a LiveCD and everything works in this machine.

            There is one good thing in all this: I'm a newbie, but I've been
            forced to learn many things fast, in order to make this machine work,
            and not to feel I threw $ 800.00 to the garbage.
          • Scott
            ... Yup. ... I bought the 4720z. One reason I bought it was because it had been sold in Asia with Linpus. However, it turned out that they used different
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
              On Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 03:58:38AM -0000, dr_ovalle wrote:
              > If you want something not to work in Linux, maybe you should try
              > running it in a brand new Acer laptop. Acer is Linux-unfriendly.

              Yup.

              >
              > I bought this brand new Acer Aspire 5050-4872, Linpus preinstalled,
              > specifically to learn Linux.

              I bought the 4720z. One reason I bought it was because it had been sold
              in Asia with Linpus. However, it turned out that they used different
              hardware there, especially the wireless.

              Most of my work has been in Fedora, but I have various notes on mine
              over at http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/acer4720z.html

              (To get the webcam to at least show my handsome face on screen wasn't
              too hard, so maybe that page might help a bit.)

              You've got sound and wireless going--what I have found (with mine--it's
              a different model of course, so it could be different) is that the
              wireless hot key will toggle the wireless on and off, but unfortunately,
              I can't get the LED that goes with it to work.

              Actually I also made a similar suggestion--I said get a cheap laptop and
              try to make things work. :)

              Yes, it's quite aggravating, and next time, I think I will take more
              care if I buy another laptop. On the other hand, it's often difficult
              to buy online, because they very seldom tell you exactly what wireless
              card is in there--most ads will say, even when you go to specifications,
              something like internal wireless 802.11b/g/n and such.


              --
              Scott Robbins
              PGP keyID EB3467D6
              ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
              gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

              Xander: Oh. Okay. You and Willow go do the superpower thing, I'll
              stay behind and putt around the Batcave with crusty old Alfred
              here.
              Giles: Ah-ah, no. I am no Alfred, sir. No, you forget. Alfred had
              a job.
            • dr_ovalle
              Well, I can t deny it has been fun. Trying to make it work properly has been my pass time for months. There is this little program: acer_acpi It is intended
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
                Well, I can't deny it has been fun. Trying to make it work properly
                has been my pass time for months.

                There is this little program: acer_acpi

                It is intended to make the hotkeys work in Acer laptops, and to make
                the LED, wifi and Bluetooth work. I have to use that driver(?) each
                time I install a new distro, to make my wireless card recognized. I
                didn't understood much of the configuration because the instructions
                are in files inside the driver(?), and in some web pages, where
                someone explains how to do it, they use slang, and is difficult to me
                to understand. Maybe you should try it and see if it works for your
                laptop.
              • Scott
                ... I d seen that, but hadn t tried it. I d tried (without success) an older program, called acerhk. You can always ask when there are things in the files that
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
                  On Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 04:46:10AM -0000, dr_ovalle wrote:

                  >
                  > There is this little program: acer_acpi
                  >
                  > It is intended to make the hotkeys work in Acer laptops, and to make
                  > the LED, wifi and Bluetooth work. I have to use that driver(?) each
                  > time I install a new distro, to make my wireless card recognized. I
                  > didn't understood much of the configuration because the instructions
                  > are in files inside the driver(?), and in some web pages, where
                  > someone explains how to do it, they use slang, and is difficult to me
                  > to understand. Maybe you should try it and see if it works for your
                  > laptop.

                  I'd seen that, but hadn't tried it. I'd tried (without success) an older
                  program, called acerhk.

                  You can always ask when there are things in the files that you don't
                  understand. Sometimes, when writing documentation, developers use
                  mental shorthand--that is, it's clear in their mind, so they don't
                  realize it won't be as clear to other people.


                  --
                  Scott Robbins
                  PGP keyID EB3467D6
                  ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                  Wicca girl: We come together, daughters of Gaia, sisters to the
                  moon. We walk with the darkness, the wolf at our side. Through the
                  waterfall of power, to the blackest heart of eternity. I think we
                  should have a bake sale.
                • ozzyu842
                  Burn a DVD of it and mail it to me!! ;) Bet I ll break it! I ve only been running linux for less than a week and its totally the wrong one. ... do. All of my
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 3, 2008
                    Burn a DVD of it and mail it to me!! ;) Bet I'll break it! I've only
                    been running linux for less than a week and its totally the wrong one.










                    --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy Charles <dunamite_1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I am getting antsy. Linux is working so well that I have nothing to
                    do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is
                    coming out. Compiz fusion works perfectly in my two main distros
                    (MEPIS and Kubuntu). I have AWN working in both. Wine works perfectly.
                    VM Server and Virtualbox work perfectly. Virtualbox is seamless. I
                    have every possible bit of eye candy or application working perfectly.
                    I have KDE 4 (don't like it yet), XFCE, Fluxbox, and Enlightenment. I
                    have Firefox 3 and the latest Thunderbird. Spam is under control and I
                    have no virus problems. What to do?
                    >
                    > I have Sabayon to play with, but I have just about exhausted the
                    possibilities there. I could download Hardy Heron and expect a few
                    crashes since it isn't quite ready for prime time. I could try the
                    OpenSUSE alphas I guess.
                    >
                    > I have a copy of OS/X that I could try to run. There are several
                    Hackintosh sites that tell how to run it on a PC, but somehow it seems
                    disloyal.
                    >
                    > For once, I am beginning to hope that something breaks. I am not so
                    lucky. Try as I may I can't break Linux. It just works. If I can't
                    find something new to do, I will have to boot into Windows and I
                    haven't done that since before Christmas. I know what that means, lots
                    of updates and re-booting.
                    >
                    > Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are
                    not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in
                    Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the
                    commercials. Any suggestions?
                    >
                    > ;)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving
                    junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in
                    Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at
                    http://mail.yahoo.ca
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • chiphead44
                    Roy I know how you feel. I had an iBook G4 for several years. It got to be like I was using it without thinking. Like the thing was thinking for me. I m
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 4, 2008
                      Roy I know how you feel. I had an iBook G4 for several years. It
                      got to be like I was using it without thinking. Like the thing was
                      thinking for me. I'm so used to fixing things (I used to be in the
                      business of fixing Windows machines), that I got antsy. So now I have
                      two IBM compatibles that I run XP and Vista on just so I have
                      something to fix. Of course when I want to get stuff done I still use
                      Ubuntu or OS X. I never have to fix those.


                      Chiphead

                      --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy Charles <dunamite_1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I am getting antsy. Linux is working so well that I have nothing to
                      do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is
                      coming out. Compiz fusion works perfectly in my two main distros
                      (MEPIS and Kubuntu). I have AWN working in both. Wine works perfectly.
                      VM Server and Virtualbox work perfectly. Virtualbox is seamless. I
                      have every possible bit of eye candy or application working perfectly.
                      I have KDE 4 (don't like it yet), XFCE, Fluxbox, and Enlightenment. I
                      have Firefox 3 and the latest Thunderbird. Spam is under control and I
                      have no virus problems. What to do?
                      >
                      > I have Sabayon to play with, but I have just about exhausted the
                      possibilities there. I could download Hardy Heron and expect a few
                      crashes since it isn't quite ready for prime time. I could try the
                      OpenSUSE alphas I guess.
                      >
                      > I have a copy of OS/X that I could try to run. There are several
                      Hackintosh sites that tell how to run it on a PC, but somehow it seems
                      disloyal.
                      >
                      > For once, I am beginning to hope that something breaks. I am not so
                      lucky. Try as I may I can't break Linux. It just works. If I can't
                      find something new to do, I will have to boot into Windows and I
                      haven't done that since before Christmas. I know what that means, lots
                      of updates and re-booting.
                      >
                      > Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are
                      not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in
                      Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the
                      commercials. Any suggestions?
                      >
                      > ;)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving
                      junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in
                      Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at
                      http://mail.yahoo.ca
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • chiphead44
                      Dr I bought an Acer Aspire 4710z. I was hyped about it coming with Linux preinstalled just to find that none gui linspire. I installed Ubuntu 7.04 but the
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 4, 2008
                        Dr I bought an Acer Aspire 4710z. I was hyped about it coming with
                        Linux preinstalled just to find that none gui linspire. I installed
                        Ubuntu 7.04 but the wifi didn't work but everything else seemed to. A
                        few months down the line and 7.10 came out and now the only thing I'm
                        not sure of is the built in web cam since I don't even know what Linux
                        program to use to test it with.

                        Chiphead
                      • Scott
                        ... You can try my page on the Acer 4720z and see if it helps with the wireless. (It will if it s an AR5007EG and running 32 bit.)
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 4, 2008
                          On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 02:08:32AM -0000, chiphead44 wrote:
                          > Dr I bought an Acer Aspire 4710z. I was hyped about it coming with
                          > Linux preinstalled just to find that none gui linspire. I installed
                          > Ubuntu 7.04 but the wifi didn't work but everything else seemed to. A
                          > few months down the line and 7.10 came out and now the only thing I'm
                          > not sure of is the built in web cam since I don't even know what Linux
                          > program to use to test it with.
                          >
                          > Chiphead

                          You can try my page on the Acer 4720z and see if it helps with the
                          wireless. (It will if it's an AR5007EG and running 32 bit.)

                          http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/acer4270z.html

                          I'm not sure how they got it working with wireless with the
                          preinstall--they probably used the ndiswrapper, or perhaps they had an
                          arrangement with Atheros for the madwifi driver, which was lost when you
                          put Ubuntu on it.
                          At any rate, if it is the AR5007EG, it's fairly easy to get it to
                          work--however, on my Acer, I didn't get the LED showing that it's on to
                          work, but, can't have everything.


                          --
                          Scott Robbins
                          PGP keyID EB3467D6
                          ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                          gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                          Whistler: Bottom line is, even if you see them coming, you're not
                          ready for the big moments. No one asks for their life to change,
                          not really. But it does. So, what are we, helpless? Puppets? Nah.
                          The big moments are gonna come, you can't help that. It's what
                          you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you
                          are.
                        • dr_ovalle
                          Well, it looks like that model does not need the acer_acpi driver. In my machine, wireless didn t work, and the wireless card was not recognized, I fix that
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 4, 2008
                            Well, it looks like that model does not need the acer_acpi driver.
                            In my machine, wireless didn't work, and the wireless card was not
                            recognized, I fix that installing acer_acpi.
                            Then I follow the steps in this thread:

                            http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=512828

                            It explains how to make wireless work using ndiswrapper, and the
                            windows driver. If I try those advises today, I can't make wireless
                            work, because, the only way to make this machine work is using
                            ndiswrapper 1.47 or 1.48 (the latest driver is 1.51, just do not work
                            in this machine), and the driver recommended for a 64 bits machine do
                            not work either in this machine, I had to download one from Acer
                            Europe (Do not download a driver for Vista, download a driver for XP).
                            I had to modify those instructions to make it work. And believe me,
                            wireless work in this machine flawless. I'm using Ubuntu now, but
                            last week I was using Sabayon and the steps are different, for make it
                            work in Sabayon it was try and error until it worked, after several
                            advises posted in Gentoo forums, a mix of all that make it work.
                            Maybe I'll write a Wiki when I find out which steps worked in Sabayon,
                            and which not.

                            Follow that thread and is possible than your wireless may work, but
                            try to use ndiswrapper 1.48 and an XP driver if it didn't work.
                            Remember, the XP driver has to be for your machine architecture (32 or
                            64 bits).

                            About the webcam... Scott has a web page where he describes the steps
                            to make the webcam work, but those instructions are for Fedora. I was
                            checking it last night and I think he made the same example in this
                            thread:

                            http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=482967

                            I hope this helps.

                            Arturo


                            --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, "chiphead44" <chiphead44@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dr I bought an Acer Aspire 4710z. I was hyped about it coming with
                            > Linux preinstalled just to find that none gui linspire. I installed
                            > Ubuntu 7.04 but the wifi didn't work but everything else seemed to. A
                            > few months down the line and 7.10 came out and now the only thing I'm
                            > not sure of is the built in web cam since I don't even know what Linux
                            > program to use to test it with.
                            >
                            > Chiphead
                            >
                          • zed
                            ... Cheese is the answer. You ll should find it on you Ubuntu CD. Zed -- zed A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 4, 2008
                              "chiphead44" <chiphead44@...> wrote:

                              > Dr I bought an Acer Aspire 4710z. I was hyped about it coming with
                              > Linux preinstalled just to find that none gui linspire. I installed
                              > Ubuntu 7.04 but the wifi didn't work but everything else seemed to. A
                              > few months down the line and 7.10 came out and now the only thing I'm
                              > not sure of is the built in web cam since I don't even know what Linux
                              > program to use to test it with.

                              Cheese is the answer. You'll should find it on you Ubuntu CD.

                              Zed
                              --
                              zed

                              A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
                            • kevin orourke
                              Hi Roy, Yes, help us other poor saps who are just getting started ? ha ha ha. cheers Kev Roy Charles wrote:
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 5, 2008
                                Hi Roy,
                                Yes, help us other poor saps who are just getting started ? ha ha ha.

                                cheers Kev

                                Roy Charles <dunamite_1@...> wrote: I am getting antsy. Linux is working so well that I have nothing to do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is coming out. Compiz fusion works perfectly in my two main distros (MEPIS and Kubuntu). I have AWN working in both. Wine works perfectly. VM Server and Virtualbox work perfectly. Virtualbox is seamless. I have every possible bit of eye candy or application working perfectly. I have KDE 4 (don't like it yet), XFCE, Fluxbox, and Enlightenment. I have Firefox 3 and the latest Thunderbird. Spam is under control and I have no virus problems. What to do?

                                I have Sabayon to play with, but I have just about exhausted the possibilities there. I could download Hardy Heron and expect a few crashes since it isn't quite ready for prime time. I could try the OpenSUSE alphas I guess.

                                I have a copy of OS/X that I could try to run. There are several Hackintosh sites that tell how to run it on a PC, but somehow it seems disloyal.

                                For once, I am beginning to hope that something breaks. I am not so lucky. Try as I may I can't break Linux. It just works. If I can't find something new to do, I will have to boot into Windows and I haven't done that since before Christmas. I know what that means, lots of updates and re-booting.

                                Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the commercials. Any suggestions?

                                ;)

                                Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                love not hate and we all learn from each other.
                                go forth through life with a closed mind and you will experience nothing.
                                make money your secondary goal and the love of others your first.
                                do not hate just understand

                                ---------------------------------
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Roy Charles
                                ... From: chiphead44 To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2008 9:03:22 PM Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: Linux is
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 5, 2008
                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                  From: chiphead44 <chiphead44@...>
                                  To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2008 9:03:22 PM
                                  Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: Linux is working too well


                                  Roy I know how you feel. I had an iBook G4 for several years. It
                                  got to be like I was using it without thinking. Like the thing was
                                  thinking for me. I'm so used to fixing things (I used to be in the
                                  business of fixing Windows machines), that I got antsy. So now I have
                                  two IBM compatibles that I run XP and Vista on just so I have
                                  something to fix. Of course when I want to get stuff done I still use
                                  Ubuntu or OS X. I never have to fix those.

                                  Chiphead

                                  Hi, I don't think we've met before!



                                  I cured what ails me today. I installed Fedora 8 64 bit and added all of the development repositories. It kept me busy all day. It was fun. Sort of.



                                  Now I remember why I don't use RPM based distros any more. I have not seen so may broken dependencies in years. I can not imagine what happens in yum when it checks for dependencies and then begins to download, only to tell you that it was a waste of time because the dependencies cannot be satisfied. At least Synaptic in Debian/ Ubuntu tells me up front. Usually. It seems to be standard practice with yum to waste your time.

                                  I retreated into sanity of my usual desktop. Boring can be okay. I will continue to play with Fedora for awhile.

                                  My problem is that I not really used a computer to do what most people do. Instead I tinker and break things and enjoy the installing and re-installing. I never really considered that people might actually use them for anything worthwhile. ;)

                                  I have used computers for almost thirty years and never got this before. It has been my sandbox. I have never been a gamer and social networking has no appeal. I don't seem to know how to use them to do any actual work. :(












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                                • Scott
                                  ... Naw, that s not fair. If you re using the devel repos, you re asking for trouble. Like I said, each day breaks something else. Remember, the devel repos
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 5, 2008
                                    On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 04:18:25PM -0800, Roy Charles wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I cured what ails me today. I installed Fedora 8 64 bit and added all of the development repositories. It kept me busy all day. It was fun. Sort of.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Now I remember why I don't use RPM based distros any more. I have not seen so may broken dependencies in years. I can not imagine what happens in yum when it checks for dependencies and then begins to download, only to tell you that it was a waste of time because the dependencies cannot be satisfied. At least Synaptic in Debian/ Ubuntu tells me up front. Usually. It seems to be standard practice with yum to waste your time.
                                    >

                                    Naw, that's not fair. If you're using the devel repos, you're asking
                                    for trouble. Like I said, each day breaks something else.

                                    Remember, the devel repos are installing Fedora 9 alpha.



                                    > My problem is that I not really used a computer to do what most people do. Instead I tinker and break things and enjoy the installing and re-installing. I never really considered that people might actually use them for anything worthwhile. ;)
                                    >
                                    As I always say, we geek types see the computer as an end in
                                    itself--normal people see it as a means to an end.


                                    --
                                    Scott Robbins
                                    PGP keyID EB3467D6
                                    ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                                    gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                                    Xander: So, do we have to speak Spanish when we see him?' Cause
                                    I don't know anything much besides 'Doritos' and 'chihuahua.'
                                  • Roy Charles
                                    ... From: Scott To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2008 8:14:46 PM Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: Linux is
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 5, 2008
                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: Scott <scottro@...>
                                      To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2008 8:14:46 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: Linux is working too well

                                      On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 04:18:25PM -0800, Roy Charles wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I cured what ails me today. I installed Fedora 8 64 bit and added all of the development repositories. It kept me busy all day. It was fun. Sort of.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Now I remember why I don't use RPM based distros any more. I have not seen so may broken dependencies in years. I can not imagine what happens in yum when it checks for dependencies and then begins to download, only to tell you that it was a waste of time because the dependencies cannot be satisfied. At least Synaptic in Debian/ Ubuntu tells me up front. Usually. It seems to be standard practice with yum to waste your time.
                                      >

                                      Naw, that's not fair. If you're using the devel repos, you're asking
                                      for trouble. Like I said, each day breaks something else.

                                      Remember, the devel repos are installing Fedora 9 alpha.

                                      > My problem is that I not really used a computer to do what most people do. Instead I tinker and break things and enjoy the installing and re-installing. I never really considered that people might actually use them for anything worthwhile. ;)
                                      >
                                      As I always say, we geek types see the computer as an end in
                                      itself--normal people see it as a means to an end.

                                      --
                                      Your point is well taken. I am comparing apples to oranges, a perfectly working distro with one that is 64 bit plus the development streams. However, yum should still do a better job of finding them before trying to download them.if there is a dependency problem, it should have picked this up when it says, "Resolving dependencies". After this it shows you that it has to download the dependencies and then it proceeds to download. Then afterwards it aborts and tells you there is a dependency error. They should never be queued in the first place. This is confusing at best.

                                      In Synaptic for Mepis or Ubuntu, it tells you that the application cannot be downloaded due to unresolved dependencies before it is queued which is where it should happen. An unnecessary annoyance to be sure.

                                      I put up with Mandrake for two years, so I am familiar with dependency Hell. This experience rekindled old bad memories. The scale of them was due to problems of my own making. The way they are handled is Fedora's fault.

                                      This should not put anybody off of using Fedora. It has some great and unique features. The look is much better than when I used it last (FC 4). I have dabbled a bit in virtual machines. There is lots of potential there. I liked it enough that I will keep it around for awhile.



















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                                    • Scott
                                      ... Actually, I ve had similar problems with Hardy 64 bit--although I think it installed everything else. ... Maybe it s because we run CentOS and RH servers
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 5, 2008
                                        On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 07:31:35PM -0800, Roy Charles wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > Now I remember why I don't use RPM based distros any more. I have not seen so may broken dependencies in years. I can not imagine what happens in yum when it checks for dependencies and then begins to download, only to tell you that it was a waste of time because the dependencies cannot be satisfied. At least Synaptic in Debian/ Ubuntu tells me up front. Usually. It seems to be standard practice with yum to waste your time.
                                        > >

                                        Actually, I've had similar problems with Hardy 64 bit--although I think
                                        it installed everything else.

                                        > Your point is well taken. I am comparing apples to oranges, a perfectly working distro with one that is 64 bit plus the development streams. However, yum should still do a better job of finding them before trying to download them.if there is a dependency problem, it should have picked this up when it says, "Resolving dependencies". After this it shows you that it has to download the dependencies and then it proceeds to download. Then afterwards it aborts and tells you there is a dependency error. They should never be queued in the first place. This is confusing at best.
                                        >
                                        Maybe it's because we run CentOS and RH servers at work, so I use Fedora
                                        on my workstations, maybe it's because I started with RedHat and learned
                                        a great deal with it, but I feel towards Fedora like I would a disliked
                                        relative--I don't like it that much but feel obligated to defend it. :)

                                        Two possible solutions (frankly, I admit neither are documented in any
                                        obvious place.)
                                        There's a plugin yum-fixbroken or ignorebroken or something similar. Oh,
                                        the Fedora box is on, hold on a sec. Ah, yum-skip-broken. So, install
                                        it.
                                        yum -y install yum-skip-broken

                                        Then, when you use yum you can do
                                        yum -y skip-broken update

                                        It will then work without all that fuss. (It might be --skip-broken,
                                        hrrm, according to yum --help, that's what it is.)

                                        A better solution, in my humble opinion, is the smart package manager.
                                        The smart program is a package manager that can handle debs, rpms and
                                        probably some others. It's MUCH faster than yum.
                                        It also handles broken dependencies better than apt or yum. (Supposedly
                                        anyway.) A case study by SuSE which doesn't use any of these, I don't
                                        think.

                                        http://www.suselinuxsupport.de/wikka.php?wakka=smartcasestudies


                                        It really is fast. It works more like apt than yum, I think--that is,
                                        you do smart update, then smart upgrade. Running smart update just
                                        updates the list as does apt-get update.


                                        >
                                        > I put up with Mandrake for two years, so I am familiar with dependency Hell. This experience rekindled old bad memories. The scale of them was due to problems of my own making. The way they are handled is Fedora's fault.
                                        >

                                        Again, defending something I don't really like--
                                        There is what I consider carelessness with the developers. On the one
                                        hand, they'll say, (and this makes sense) that with Alpha versions,
                                        they're testing one thing or another and don't worry too much if it
                                        breaks something else at that point. On the other hand, it often seems
                                        that Fedora innovates and Ubuntu perfects. Fedora's last RELEASE (not
                                        an alpha) had pulse audio which caused problems for many people. The
                                        fact that they also decided, around the same time, to connect
                                        ConsoleKit, which is just for Gnome, with sound permissions didn't help,
                                        making it harder to figure out what was causing a problem. I got in
                                        involved in the bug report, and disagreed with the developer, but not
                                        wanting to get into an argument, basically said, I see your point, but I
                                        think a few lines in the README at least would save people some
                                        aggravation.

                                        Now Ubuntu is putting it in their alpha. Firstly, they have an
                                        announcement--rather than Fedora's Look, we have pulseaudio, the best
                                        thing since sliced bread, they have we're putting in pulse-audio, right
                                        now we have problem X, Y and Z with it.
                                        However, no permission problems, I don't need to be running Gnome for
                                        sound to work--in Fedora there are workarounds, but basically, if you
                                        don't run Gnome, or don't have the root password, be prepared for
                                        silence.

                                        Personally, I think both ALSA and pulse-audio are answers to questions
                                        no one asked--the old sound systems worked pretty well, now one
                                        frequently has to google to get sound working. (Although again, Ubuntu,
                                        with their stated number one bug being that there are more machines with
                                        Windows than with Ubuntu, is dong a good job with sound--as is
                                        PCLinuxOS.

                                        On the other hand, with Fedora, you're sort of prepared for things like
                                        that. Still, last November, some decisions broke sound for just about
                                        everyone. Poor planning. Granted, RH enterprise is basically a server
                                        O/S and few bosses let you stick a soundcard in a rack server, but,
                                        Fedora itself is also a desktop distribution.


                                        > This should not put anybody off of using Fedora. It has some great and unique features. The look is much better than when I used it last (FC 4). I have dabbled a bit in virtual machines. There is lots of potential there. I liked it enough that I will keep it around for awhile.
                                        >
                                        It has its good points. Really, as I said, I use it more from necessity
                                        than choice. My first love is probably FreeBSD, but as I get busier with
                                        the new job, I realize how much time it requires to keep it working.
                                        Before this job I primarily ran FreeBSD, with ArchLinux on a laptop for
                                        the things that FreeBSD didn't do as well then--wireless (though the
                                        MadWifi Ace is a FreeBSD developer) and flash 9.

                                        These days, I still have it on my main workstation, though I might
                                        change that to Fedora when I upgrade my hardare. My laptop runs Fedora
                                        and Ubuntu--Ubuntu because it's so ubiquitous that I figure if I job
                                        hunt again, it's good to know. Then, I have one partition with
                                        PCLinuxOS, just for fun, because so many people say nice things about
                                        it, and of course, one with my beloved ArchLinux. I prefer a minimalist
                                        distro--the trouble with Fedora is that if you try to go minimalist,
                                        something will insist it needs something else. So, I have Gnome
                                        installed on it, even though I boot into console and run fluxbox.

                                        >

                                        --
                                        Scott Robbins
                                        PGP keyID EB3467D6
                                        ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                                        gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                                        Cordelia: We were just discussing whether or not we should
                                        offer to pay Gunn.
                                        Angel: No you weren't.
                                        Wesley: Well, our discussions tend to go about 3 minutes, then it's
                                        strictly name calling and hair pulling.
                                      • Michael
                                        It s great to hear you ve got your system working so smoothly, Roy, but if you can t break yours perhaps you could advise on how I could repair mine, which
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Mar 5, 2008
                                          It's great to hear you've got your system working so
                                          smoothly, Roy, but if you can't break yours perhaps
                                          you could advise on how I could repair mine, which
                                          snapped this afternoon...

                                          The system is a Dell Inspiron 1420, running a Netgear
                                          wireless connection via NDISWrapper. As far as I can
                                          discover the connection's perfect: Network Manager
                                          gives me green lights, prism2 is blacklisted, the
                                          terminal says NDIS is running and it loads on cue
                                          at start-up. But when I open a browser it's blank.

                                          Yesterday I installed the Guard Dog and Firestarter
                                          firewalls to try them. Both are gone but it's my
                                          guess they closed some vital ports, including port
                                          80, and I don't know how to reverse the damage??

                                          If you guys have any advice on how to correct this
                                          mess I'd appreciate the info -- Having to communicate
                                          with humanity using the Redmond virus is really
                                          making me sick.

                                          Thanks,

                                          Michael.
                                          [using Kubuntu 7.10]
                                        • barnabywalker
                                          ... do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is coming out. Compiz fusion works perfectly in my two main distros (MEPIS and Kubuntu). I
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Mar 9, 2008
                                            --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy Charles <dunamite_1@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I am getting antsy. Linux is working so well that I have nothing to
                                            do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is
                                            coming out. Compiz fusion works perfectly in my two main distros
                                            (MEPIS and Kubuntu). I have AWN working in both. Wine works perfectly.
                                            VM Server and Virtualbox work perfectly. Virtualbox is seamless. I
                                            have every possible bit of eye candy or application working perfectly.
                                            I have KDE 4 (don't like it yet), XFCE, Fluxbox, and Enlightenment. I
                                            have Firefox 3 and the latest Thunderbird. Spam is under control and I
                                            have no virus problems. What to do?
                                            >
                                            > I have Sabayon to play with, but I have just about exhausted the
                                            possibilities there. I could download Hardy Heron and expect a few
                                            crashes since it isn't quite ready for prime time. I could try the
                                            OpenSUSE alphas I guess.
                                            >
                                            > I have a copy of OS/X that I could try to run. There are several
                                            Hackintosh sites that tell how to run it on a PC, but somehow it seems
                                            disloyal.
                                            >
                                            > For once, I am beginning to hope that something breaks. I am not so
                                            lucky. Try as I may I can't break Linux. It just works. If I can't
                                            find something new to do, I will have to boot into Windows and I
                                            haven't done that since before Christmas. I know what that means, lots
                                            of updates and re-booting.
                                            >
                                            > Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are
                                            not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in
                                            Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the
                                            commercials. Any suggestions?
                                            >
                                            > ;)


                                            Here's a couple of Challenges.

                                            Can't get my microphone on two different headsets to work with Skype
                                            in Mepis or PCLinuxOS. And I open so many, way too many tabs in
                                            Firefox 2, to find that my Mplayer stutters when playing YouTube.

                                            Barnaby
                                          • Roy Charles
                                            ... From: barnabywalker To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 4:32:22 PM Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: Linux
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Mar 13, 2008
                                              ----- Original Message ----
                                              From: barnabywalker <barnabywalker@...>
                                              To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 4:32:22 PM
                                              Subject: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: Linux is working too well

                                              --- In LINUX_Newbies@ yahoogroups. com, Roy Charles <dunamite_1@ ...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I am getting antsy. Linux is working so well that I have nothing to
                                              do. All of my distros boot and work perfectly. Nothing much new is
                                              coming out. Compiz fusion works perfectly in my two main distros
                                              (MEPIS and Kubuntu). I have AWN working in both. Wine works perfectly.
                                              VM Server and Virtualbox work perfectly. Virtualbox is seamless. I
                                              have every possible bit of eye candy or application working perfectly.
                                              I have KDE 4 (don't like it yet), XFCE, Fluxbox, and Enlightenment. I
                                              have Firefox 3 and the latest Thunderbird. Spam is under control and I
                                              have no virus problems. What to do?
                                              >
                                              > I have Sabayon to play with, but I have just about exhausted the
                                              possibilities there. I could download Hardy Heron and expect a few
                                              crashes since it isn't quite ready for prime time. I could try the
                                              OpenSUSE alphas I guess.
                                              >
                                              > I have a copy of OS/X that I could try to run. There are several
                                              Hackintosh sites that tell how to run it on a PC, but somehow it seems
                                              disloyal.
                                              >
                                              > For once, I am beginning to hope that something breaks. I am not so
                                              lucky. Try as I may I can't break Linux. It just works. If I can't
                                              find something new to do, I will have to boot into Windows and I
                                              haven't done that since before Christmas. I know what that means, lots
                                              of updates and re-booting.
                                              >
                                              > Sometimes Linux is just too good for a tinkerer. These things are
                                              not said to brag. I just want to show the possibilities that exist in
                                              Linux. They appear to be endless, but I feel like a Maytag man in the
                                              commercials. Any suggestions?
                                              >
                                              > ;)

                                              Here's a couple of Challenges.

                                              Can't get my microphone on two different headsets to work with Skype
                                              in Mepis or PCLinuxOS. And I open so many, way too many tabs in
                                              Firefox 2, to find that my Mplayer stutters when playing YouTube.

                                              Barnaby


                                              Does the microphone work outside of Skype? Have you opened the mixer to see if it is turned on? Many distros start with only the master sound control activated. all others are muted. You have to go to the mixer sound panel and push the sliders up for the microphone.



                                              Roy



                                              __._,_._






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