Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
Skip to search.
 

Re: [LDSgroups] Happy Chanukah!

Expand Messages
  • Jas E Elliott
    Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really believe that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was only enough oil for one?
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 17 1:19 PM
      Should we really venerate the Maccabees?  Do we really believe that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was only enough oil for one?  Aristobulus, who came to power in 103 BC, imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other.  The last Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to restore peace in 63 BC. 
       
      And do we really believe that God looked with favor as Mattathias killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus? 
       
      Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism?  Was Judaism really superior to Greek philosophy?
       
      Lets have some reasoned discussion.  Jim Elliott
       
      Patlabb@... wrote:
       
      May the Festival of Bring Peace to All the Peoples of the World!



       
    • Patlabb@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jelliott6523@sbcglobal.net writes: Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 21 4:21 AM
        In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jelliott6523@... writes:
        Should we really venerate the Maccabees?  Do we really believe that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was only enough oil for one?  Aristobulus, who came to power in 103 BC, imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other.  The last Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to restore peace in 63 BC. 
         
        And do we really believe that God looked with favor as Mattathias killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus? 
         
        Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism?  Was Judaism really superior to Greek philosophy?
         
        Lets have some reasoned discussion.  Jim Elliott
        Oh boy! You like to open whoop a_s can of worms! :)
        Seriously, the celebration in truth venerates the Jewish Spirit. The Spirit of Renewal. I personally am now attending the Unitarian Church but am incorporating my Jewish Heritage with my Restoration (LIBERAL) beliefs. I think the world would NOT be a better place without Jewish philosophy. If you look at Paul you see a mix of Greek Philosophy with Jewish philosophy. In fact Christianity is such a mixture. Paul, and you must throw away his bigotry toward GAYS and WOMEN, actually incorporated Jewish, Greek and Roman thought and the world is a better place for it! 

        Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS

















      • zion_heritage
        ... God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was only enough oil for one? ***Y shua was attending the Feast of Dedication (see book of John).
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 21 5:49 AM
          --- In LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really believe that
          God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was only
          enough oil for one?

          ***Y'shua was attending the Feast of Dedication (see book of John).
          Many believe He was conceived on the eighth day of Chanukah. I wrote
          an article about some of this here:
          http://www.zionheritage.com/when_messiah_was_born.html
          Saryah
        • Jas E Elliott
          Early Mormons thought of themselves as a peculiar people who were especially loved by God. An early revelation, as originally written, said the Mormons
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 21 9:36 AM
            Early Mormons thought of themselves as a "peculiar people" who were especially loved by God.  An early revelation, as originally written,  said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles. It led to much persecution.   The Jews have the same concept.  They are busy ejecting the rightful owners of Palestine because they think God gave them that land.
             
            Thousands died as the Maccabees family continued to fight for their irrational belief that God would not want them to offer a sacrifice to Zeus.  I think the world would be a better place if Judaism had died out.  There would have been no Holocaust.   Jim Elliott
            Patlabb@... wrote:
            In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jelliott6523@... writes:
            Should we really venerate the Maccabees?  Do we really believe that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was only enough oil for one?  Aristobulus, who came to power in 103 BC, imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other.  The last Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to restore peace in 63 BC. 
             
            And do we really believe that God looked with favor as Mattathias killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus? 
             
            Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism?  Was Judaism really superior to Greek philosophy?
             
            Lets have some reasoned discussion.  Jim Elliott
            Oh boy! You like to open whoop a_s can of worms! :)
            Seriously, the celebration in truth venerates the Jewish Spirit. The Spirit of Renewal. I personally am now attending the Unitarian Church but am incorporating my Jewish Heritage with my Restoration (LIBERAL) beliefs. I think the world would NOT be a better place without Jewish philosophy. If you look at Paul you see a mix of Greek Philosophy with Jewish philosophy. In fact Christianity is such a mixture. Paul, and you must throw away his bigotry toward GAYS and WOMEN, actually incorporated Jewish, Greek and Roman thought and the world is a better place for it! 

            Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS




















             
          • Zion Heritage
            Hello Jas., I ve been pondering that concept lately. Could you please provide a reference and scriptures? Thank you and shalom, Saryah Jas E Elliott
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 21 11:45 AM
              Hello Jas., I've been pondering that concept
              lately.  Could you please provide a reference and scriptures?
              Thank you and shalom,
              Saryah


              Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@...> wrote:
               
              An early revelation, as originally written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles.  It led to much persecution.

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

            • bookofmormonwarrior
              I ll be hiding from whatever lightening bolt heads your way. If you are a believer in the Book of Mormon, perhaps you should read it again, if you are not,
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 21 1:47 PM
                I'll be hiding from whatever lightening bolt heads your way. If you
                are a believer in the Book of Mormon, perhaps you should read it
                again, if you are not, well, perhaps you should read it again.

                --- In LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Early Mormons thought of themselves as a "peculiar people" who were
                especially loved by God. An early revelation, as originally
                written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles.
                It led to much persecution. The Jews have the same concept. They
                are busy ejecting the rightful owners of Palestine because they think
                God gave them that land.
                >
                > Thousands died as the Maccabees family continued to fight for
                their irrational belief that God would not want them to offer a
                sacrifice to Zeus. I think the world would be a better place if
                Judaism had died out. There would have been no Holocaust. Jim
                Elliott
                > Patlabb@... wrote:
                > In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard
                Time, jelliott6523@... writes:
                > Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really believe
                that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was
                only enough oil for one? Aristobulus, who came to power in 103 BC,
                imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other. The last
                Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to
                restore peace in 63 BC.
                >
                > And do we really believe that God looked with favor as Mattathias
                killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus?
                >
                > Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if
                the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism? Was Judaism really
                superior to Greek philosophy?
                >
                > Lets have some reasoned discussion. Jim Elliott
                >
                >
                > Oh boy! You like to open whoop a_s can of worms! :)
                > Seriously, the celebration in truth venerates the Jewish Spirit.
                The Spirit of Renewal. I personally am now attending the Unitarian
                Church but am incorporating my Jewish Heritage with my Restoration
                (LIBERAL) beliefs. I think the world would NOT be a better place
                without Jewish philosophy. If you look at Paul you see a mix of Greek
                Philosophy with Jewish philosophy. In fact Christianity is such a
                mixture. Paul, and you must throw away his bigotry toward GAYS and
                WOMEN, actually incorporated Jewish, Greek and Roman thought and the
                world is a better place for it!
                > Patrick C. L'abbe RN MSN
                >
                >
                >
                > Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS
                >
              • Jas E Elliott
                Book of Commandment section 44 vs 32 reads in part... for I will consecrate the riches of the Gentiles, unto my people which are of the house of Israel. The
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 21 6:39 PM
                  Book of Commandment section 44 vs 32 reads in part..."for I will consecrate the riches of the Gentiles, unto my people  which are of the house of Israel."
                   
                  The 1966 D and C Section 42 11c reads" For I will consecrate of the riches of those who embrace my gospel among the Gentiles unto the poor of my people who are of he house of Israel."
                   
                   
                  When the Church Historian, Heman Smith, noted the differences between the Book of Commandments and the D and C, he ascribed the differences to errors in the Book of Commandments.
                   
                  Richard Howards, Restoration Scriptures points out this ch age and others as well.  Book of Commandments 44:26 instructs Saints to consecrate all their property to the church. 1966  D and C 42 8b instructs the saints to  give of their property for the poor.
                   
                  Jim Elliott
                   
                   
                   
                  Zion Heritage <zion_heritage@...> wrote:
                  Hello Jas., I've been pondering that concept
                  lately.  Could you please provide a reference and scriptures?
                  Thank you and shalom,
                  Saryah


                  Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                   
                  An early revelation, as originally written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles.  It led to much persecution.
                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail. yahoo.com



                   
                • Jas E Elliott
                  I was raised RLDS. My mother read the B of M to us at bedtime. But I now reject it as well as conventional Christianity. With the exception of Sodom, God
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 21 7:06 PM
                    I was raised RLDS.   My mother read the B of M  to us at bedtime.  But I now reject it as well as conventional Christianity.  With the exception of Sodom, God doesn't seem to go after bad guys very often.  I worry about global warming but not about getting zapped by God.   I don't know if Jason Smith would tolerate it, but I would be glad to discuss the book of Mormon in detail with you.  Would you care to share chapters and verses of the book of Mormon  that seem to display divinity?  Jim Elliott

                    bookofmormonwarrior <bookofmormonwarrior@...> wrote:
                    I'll be hiding from whatever lightening bolt heads your way. If you
                    are a believer in the Book of Mormon, perhaps you should read it
                    again, if you are not, well, perhaps you should read it again.

                    --- In LDSgroups@yahoogrou ps.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@ ...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Early Mormons thought of themselves as a "peculiar people" who were
                    especially loved by God. An early revelation, as originally
                    written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles.
                    It led to much persecution. The Jews have the same concept. They
                    are busy ejecting the rightful owners of Palestine because they think
                    God gave them that land.
                    >
                    > Thousands died as the Maccabees family continued to fight for
                    their irrational belief that God would not want them to offer a
                    sacrifice to Zeus. I think the world would be a better place if
                    Judaism had died out. There would have been no Holocaust. Jim
                    Elliott
                    > Patlabb@... wrote:
                    > In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard
                    Time, jelliott6523@ ... writes:
                    > Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really believe
                    that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was
                    only enough oil for one? Aristobulus, who came to power in 103 BC,
                    imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other. The last
                    Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to
                    restore peace in 63 BC.
                    >
                    > And do we really believe that God looked with favor as Mattathias
                    killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus?
                    >
                    > Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if
                    the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism? Was Judaism really
                    superior to Greek philosophy?
                    >
                    > Lets have some reasoned discussion. Jim Elliott
                    >
                    >
                    > Oh boy! You like to open whoop a_s can of worms! :)
                    > Seriously, the celebration in truth venerates the Jewish Spirit.
                    The Spirit of Renewal. I personally am now attending the Unitarian
                    Church but am incorporating my Jewish Heritage with my Restoration
                    (LIBERAL) beliefs. I think the world would NOT be a better place
                    without Jewish philosophy. If you look at Paul you see a mix of Greek
                    Philosophy with Jewish philosophy. In fact Christianity is such a
                    mixture. Paul, and you must throw away his bigotry toward GAYS and
                    WOMEN, actually incorporated Jewish, Greek and Roman thought and the
                    world is a better place for it!
                    > Patrick C. L'abbe RN MSN
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS
                    >




                     
                  • Zion Heritage
                    Thank you and shalom, Saryah Jas E Elliott wrote: Book of Commandment section 44 vs 32 reads in part... for I will consecrate the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 22 8:52 AM
                      Thank you and shalom,
                      Saryah

                      Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@...> wrote:
                      Book of Commandment section 44 vs 32 reads in part..."for I will consecrate the riches of the Gentiles, unto my people  which are of the house of Israel."
                       
                      The 1966 D and C Section 42 11c reads" For I will consecrate of the riches of those who embrace my gospel among the Gentiles unto the poor of my people who are of he house of Israel."
                       
                       
                      When the Church Historian, Heman Smith, noted the differences between the Book of Commandments and the D and C, he ascribed the differences to errors in the Book of Commandments.
                       
                      Richard Howards, Restoration Scriptures points out this ch age and others as well.  Book of Commandments 44:26 instructs Saints to consecrate all their property to the church. 1966  D and C 42 8b instructs the saints to  give of their property for the poor.
                       
                      Jim Elliott
                       
                       
                       
                      Zion Heritage <zion_heritage@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                      Hello Jas., I've been pondering that concept
                      lately.  Could you please provide a reference and scriptures?
                      Thank you and shalom,
                      Saryah


                      Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                       
                      An early revelation, as originally written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles.  It led to much persecution.
                      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail. yahoo.com



                       

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com

                    • bookofmormonwarrior
                      Where would I start...ah how about... I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents... The whole thing is divine. God Bless. ... But I now reject it as well
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 22 1:38 PM
                        Where would I start...ah how about... "I, Nephi, having been born of
                        goodly parents..."
                        The whole thing is divine.

                        God Bless.

                        --- In LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I was raised RLDS. My mother read the B of M to us at bedtime.
                        But I now reject it as well as conventional Christianity. With the
                        exception of Sodom, God doesn't seem to go after bad guys very
                        often. I worry about global warming but not about getting zapped by
                        God. I don't know if Jason Smith would tolerate it, but I would be
                        glad to discuss the book of Mormon in detail with you. Would you
                        care to share chapters and verses of the book of Mormon that seem to
                        display divinity? Jim Elliott
                        >
                        > bookofmormonwarrior <bookofmormonwarrior@...> wrote: I'll
                        be hiding from whatever lightening bolt heads your way. If you
                        > are a believer in the Book of Mormon, perhaps you should read it
                        > again, if you are not, well, perhaps you should read it again.
                        >
                        > --- In LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Early Mormons thought of themselves as a "peculiar people" who
                        were
                        > especially loved by God. An early revelation, as originally
                        > written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles.
                        > It led to much persecution. The Jews have the same concept. They
                        > are busy ejecting the rightful owners of Palestine because they
                        think
                        > God gave them that land.
                        > >
                        > > Thousands died as the Maccabees family continued to fight for
                        > their irrational belief that God would not want them to offer a
                        > sacrifice to Zeus. I think the world would be a better place if
                        > Judaism had died out. There would have been no Holocaust. Jim
                        > Elliott
                        > > Patlabb@ wrote:
                        > > In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard
                        > Time, jelliott6523@ writes:
                        > > Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really believe
                        > that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was
                        > only enough oil for one? Aristobulus, who came to power in 103 BC,
                        > imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other. The last
                        > Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to
                        > restore peace in 63 BC.
                        > >
                        > > And do we really believe that God looked with favor as Mattathias
                        > killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus?
                        > >
                        > > Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if
                        > the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism? Was Judaism
                        really
                        > superior to Greek philosophy?
                        > >
                        > > Lets have some reasoned discussion. Jim Elliott
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Oh boy! You like to open whoop a_s can of worms! :)
                        > > Seriously, the celebration in truth venerates the Jewish Spirit.
                        > The Spirit of Renewal. I personally am now attending the Unitarian
                        > Church but am incorporating my Jewish Heritage with my Restoration
                        > (LIBERAL) beliefs. I think the world would NOT be a better place
                        > without Jewish philosophy. If you look at Paul you see a mix of
                        Greek
                        > Philosophy with Jewish philosophy. In fact Christianity is such a
                        > mixture. Paul, and you must throw away his bigotry toward GAYS and
                        > WOMEN, actually incorporated Jewish, Greek and Roman thought and
                        the
                        > world is a better place for it!
                        > > Patrick C. L'abbe RN MSN
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS
                        > >
                        >
                      • Jas E Elliott
                        Thats about on a par with the first words of Moby Dick--call me Ahab. Help me understand the divinity in these words from Jesus in 3 Nephi 9:51-54 (RLDS
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 23 4:48 AM
                          Thats about on a par with the first words of Moby Dick--call me Ahab.
                           
                          Help me understand the divinity in these words from Jesus  in  3 Nephi 9:51-54 (RLDS version).  Thats 3 Nephi 20:15 and ff in my LDS Book
                           
                          And I say unto you that if the Gentiles do not repent..then ye who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them...as a lion among the beasts of the forest.. etc
                           
                          This seems to be saying that the Indians will attack unrepenant Gentiles.  Does this sound like the Jesus that Christians worship?
                           
                          Jim Elliott
                           

                          bookofmormonwarrior <bookofmormonwarrior@...> wrote:
                          Where would I start...ah how about... "I, Nephi, having been born of
                          goodly parents..."
                          The whole thing is divine.

                          God Bless.

                          --- In LDSgroups@yahoogrou ps.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@ ...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > I was raised RLDS. My mother read the B of M to us at bedtime.
                          But I now reject it as well as conventional Christianity. With the
                          exception of Sodom, God doesn't seem to go after bad guys very
                          often. I worry about global warming but not about getting zapped by
                          God. I don't know if Jason Smith would tolerate it, but I would be
                          glad to discuss the book of Mormon in detail with you. Would you
                          care to share chapters and verses of the book of Mormon that seem to
                          display divinity? Jim Elliott
                          >
                          > bookofmormonwarrior <bookofmormonwarrio r@...> wrote: I'll
                          be hiding from whatever lightening bolt heads your way. If you
                          > are a believer in the Book of Mormon, perhaps you should read it
                          > again, if you are not, well, perhaps you should read it again.
                          >
                          > --- In LDSgroups@yahoogrou ps.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@ >
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Early Mormons thought of themselves as a "peculiar people" who
                          were
                          > especially loved by God. An early revelation, as originally
                          > written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the gentiles.
                          > It led to much persecution. The Jews have the same concept. They
                          > are busy ejecting the rightful owners of Palestine because they
                          think
                          > God gave them that land.
                          > >
                          > > Thousands died as the Maccabees family continued to fight for
                          > their irrational belief that God would not want them to offer a
                          > sacrifice to Zeus. I think the world would be a better place if
                          > Judaism had died out. There would have been no Holocaust. Jim
                          > Elliott
                          > > Patlabb@ wrote:
                          > > In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard
                          > Time, jelliott6523@ writes:
                          > > Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really believe
                          > that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there was
                          > only enough oil for one? Aristobulus, who came to power in 103 BC,
                          > imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other. The last
                          > Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to
                          > restore peace in 63 BC.
                          > >
                          > > And do we really believe that God looked with favor as Mattathias
                          > killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus?
                          > >
                          > > Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if
                          > the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism? Was Judaism
                          really
                          > superior to Greek philosophy?
                          > >
                          > > Lets have some reasoned discussion. Jim Elliott
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Oh boy! You like to open whoop a_s can of worms! :)
                          > > Seriously, the celebration in truth venerates the Jewish Spirit.
                          > The Spirit of Renewal. I personally am now attending the Unitarian
                          > Church but am incorporating my Jewish Heritage with my Restoration
                          > (LIBERAL) beliefs. I think the world would NOT be a better place
                          > without Jewish philosophy. If you look at Paul you see a mix of
                          Greek
                          > Philosophy with Jewish philosophy. In fact Christianity is such a
                          > mixture. Paul, and you must throw away his bigotry toward GAYS and
                          > WOMEN, actually incorporated Jewish, Greek and Roman thought and
                          the
                          > world is a better place for it!
                          > > Patrick C. L'abbe RN MSN
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS
                          > >
                          >




                           
                        • Robert McKay
                          On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 04:48:44 -0800 (PST) Jas E Elliott ... a remnant of the ... forest.. etc ... Gentiles. Does this sound ... Actually, that small bit of
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 23 6:49 AM
                            On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 04:48:44 -0800 (PST) Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@...> writes:
                             
                            > And I say unto you that if the Gentiles do not repent..then ye who are
                            a remnant of the
                            > house of Jacob, go forth among them...as a lion among the beasts of
                            the forest.. etc
                            >
                            > This seems to be saying that the Indians will attack unrepenant
                            Gentiles.  Does this sound
                            > like the Jesus that Christians worship?
                             
                            Actually, that small bit of text doesn't provide a sufficient basis for judgment.<g>
                             
                            It does sound like the "remnant of the house of Jacob" are supposed to rampage among the gentiles.  However, without looking at the context (which I'll not do - I'm too comfortable in this chair to get up and grab my BoM<g>), it seems that the verse could conceivably have more than one possible meaning.  It might be metaphorical.  It's possible that the going forth is to be with the power of God in conversion to Christ.  It doesn't sound like that, at least not in isolation, and I don't say that is the meaning - but it's one possibility.
                             
                            And then there are these statstatementsor about Jesus from His revelation:
                             
                            "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matt. 10:34)
                             
                            "From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty." (Rev. 19:15)
                             
                            If these things are accurate representations of Jesus - and there is no rational basis for thinking otherwise - then we must face that fact that He isn't some saccharine sweet teacher who would never harm a fly.  This is the Christ, remember, who physically overturned tables, and physically drove the money changer out of the temple - clearly He's not a wimp.  This is the Chirst whoChristred to John in terrifying terms: "Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash.  His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire.  His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.  In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.  When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man." (Rev. 1:12-17)
                             
                            It is true that Jesus is a loving Savior.  As someone once put it, "I asked Jesus how much He loved me - and He spread out His arms and died."  But as the exact representation of God's nature (Heb. 1:3) He reveals not merely love, but holiness; not merely salvation from sin, but judgment of sin; not merely the rescue of believers, but the destruction of those who reject Him.  You can't have a good Christ without having a Christ who responds with wrath against evil - for if He did not, He could not be good in any meaningful sense.  It was Christ's wrath against wickedness that first motivated me to seek His salvation; as the Puritans understood very well, unless one recognizes he is need of salvation, he won't desire salvation.
                             
                            However, I didn't mean to preach.  It's just that I'm a preacher, and it comes natural.<g>
                             
                            Robert McKay
                            goffscalifornia@...
                            Coming soon - Half-Life
                            ---------------------------------
                            Is it faith to understand nothing, and merely submit your convictions implicitly to the Church?    --John Calvin
                          • Patlabb@aol.com
                            In a message dated 12/23/2006 9:07:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jelliott6523@sbcglobal.net writes: And I say unto you that if the Gentiles do not
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 23 11:35 AM
                              In a message dated 12/23/2006 9:07:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jelliott6523@... writes:
                              And I say unto you that if the Gentiles do not repent..then ye who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them...as a lion among the beasts of the forest.. etc
                               
                              This seems to be saying that the Indians will attack unrepentant Gentiles.  Does this sound like the Jesus that Christians worship?
                              Jesus was love, all about love...not vengeance and retribution. The Christian message has been lost on several generations of the Church
                               

                              Patrick C. L'abbe RN MSN

                              Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS

















                            • bookofmormonwarrior
                              I m not going to get in an argument over whether God is loving or couldn t care less, it s a rather pointless argument. ... Ahab. ... Nephi 9:51-54 (RLDS
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 23 5:13 PM
                                I'm not going to get in an argument over whether God is loving or
                                couldn't care less, it's a rather pointless argument.

                                --- In LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Thats about on a par with the first words of Moby Dick--call me
                                Ahab.
                                >
                                > Help me understand the divinity in these words from Jesus in 3
                                Nephi 9:51-54 (RLDS version). Thats 3 Nephi 20:15 and ff in my LDS
                                Book
                                >
                                > And I say unto you that if the Gentiles do not repent..then ye
                                who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them...as a
                                lion among the beasts of the forest.. etc
                                >
                                > This seems to be saying that the Indians will attack unrepenant
                                Gentiles. Does this sound like the Jesus that Christians worship?
                                >
                                > Jim Elliott
                                >
                                >
                                > bookofmormonwarrior <bookofmormonwarrior@...> wrote:
                                > Where would I start...ah how about... "I, Nephi, having
                                been born of
                                > goodly parents..."
                                > The whole thing is divine.
                                >
                                > God Bless.
                                >
                                > --- In LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I was raised RLDS. My mother read the B of M to us at bedtime.
                                > But I now reject it as well as conventional Christianity. With the
                                > exception of Sodom, God doesn't seem to go after bad guys very
                                > often. I worry about global warming but not about getting zapped by
                                > God. I don't know if Jason Smith would tolerate it, but I would be
                                > glad to discuss the book of Mormon in detail with you. Would you
                                > care to share chapters and verses of the book of Mormon that seem
                                to
                                > display divinity? Jim Elliott
                                > >
                                > > bookofmormonwarrior <bookofmormonwarrior@> wrote: I'll
                                > be hiding from whatever lightening bolt heads your way. If you
                                > > are a believer in the Book of Mormon, perhaps you should read it
                                > > again, if you are not, well, perhaps you should read it again.
                                > >
                                > > --- In LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com, Jas E Elliott <jelliott6523@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Early Mormons thought of themselves as a "peculiar people" who
                                > were
                                > > especially loved by God. An early revelation, as originally
                                > > written, said the Mormons would inherit the wealth of the
                                gentiles.
                                > > It led to much persecution. The Jews have the same concept. They
                                > > are busy ejecting the rightful owners of Palestine because they
                                > think
                                > > God gave them that land.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thousands died as the Maccabees family continued to fight for
                                > > their irrational belief that God would not want them to offer a
                                > > sacrifice to Zeus. I think the world would be a better place if
                                > > Judaism had died out. There would have been no Holocaust. Jim
                                > > Elliott
                                > > > Patlabb@ wrote:
                                > > > In a message dated 12/21/2006 5:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard
                                > > Time, jelliott6523@ writes:
                                > > > Should we really venerate the Maccabees? Do we really believe
                                > > that God wrought a miracle to allow 8 lights to burn when there
                                was
                                > > only enough oil for one? Aristobulus, who came to power in 103
                                BC,
                                > > imprisoned three of his brothers and killed the other. The last
                                > > Macabbeans couldn't decide who was to rule and Rome took over to
                                > > restore peace in 63 BC.
                                > > >
                                > > > And do we really believe that God looked with favor as
                                Mattathias
                                > > killed a Syrian official who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus?
                                > > >
                                > > > Would the world be a better or worse place to live in today if
                                > > the Syrians had succeeded in eradicating Judaism? Was Judaism
                                > really
                                > > superior to Greek philosophy?
                                > > >
                                > > > Lets have some reasoned discussion. Jim Elliott
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Oh boy! You like to open whoop a_s can of worms! :)
                                > > > Seriously, the celebration in truth venerates the Jewish
                                Spirit.
                                > > The Spirit of Renewal. I personally am now attending the
                                Unitarian
                                > > Church but am incorporating my Jewish Heritage with my
                                Restoration
                                > > (LIBERAL) beliefs. I think the world would NOT be a better place
                                > > without Jewish philosophy. If you look at Paul you see a mix of
                                > Greek
                                > > Philosophy with Jewish philosophy. In fact Christianity is such a
                                > > mixture. Paul, and you must throw away his bigotry toward GAYS
                                and
                                > > WOMEN, actually incorporated Jewish, Greek and Roman thought and
                                > the
                                > > world is a better place for it!
                                > > > Patrick C. L'abbe RN MSN
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Happy Chanukah and MERRY CHRISTMAS
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Patlabb@aol.com
                                In a message dated 12/23/2006 9:41:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bookofmormonwarrior@yahoo.com writes: I m not going to get in an argument over whether God
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 24 4:48 AM
                                  In a message dated 12/23/2006 9:41:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bookofmormonwarrior@... writes:
                                  I'm not going to get in an argument over whether God is loving or
                                  couldn't care less, it's a rather pointless argument.

                                  A pointless argument? Maybe to the extreme right wing who would have us believe George Bush talks to God and ordained a Jihad against Muslims...so much hate and war in the name of a God of Love...No wonder Jesus weeps at His followers...
                                   
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.