Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?

Expand Messages
  • Paolo Tramannoni
    Hi Sean, ... The second thing I did, when I first received a Triton (the first was playing for a couple days, with no time to sleep) was trying to make a
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1 3:35 AM
      Hi Sean,

      >of us who do not care to spend 12 hours per day trying to make a violin
      >sound like a martian toilet flushing, the K2600 falls way short these days
      >in comparison to a Korg Triton Studio

      The second thing I did, when I first received a Triton (the first was
      playing for a couple days, with no time to sleep) was trying to make
      a violin sound as a martian toilet...

      Kidding apart, I don't think making new sounds is something asking
      you hours of work, unless we are dealing with simulative sounds.
      Powerful synths - and the Kurzweil is the most powerful - are great
      for letting you create that new, unique sound, in just a matter of
      minutes. Just edit some parameters to an existing sound, and you'll
      have a totally new, unheard sound for your next hit.

      >I want a new set of ROMs that are not 11 years old. I know this
      >will piss people off, but the K2600 ROM sucks compared to....well
      >just about every new synth on the planet.

      I just finished composing a soundtrack for a video, soon streamed on
      Rock TV. I used a K2500R+KDFX, with the Orchestral ROM fitted, and
      some additional string ensemble samples. Man, it sounds incredible.
      It doesn't sound as a modern synth faking the orchestra... it sounds
      as a movie soundtrack.

      I had another powerful synth at my disposal, with tons of evocative
      presets. At first, playing those presets gave me the illusion that I
      had the soundtrack ready. Then, the director made me note that there
      wasn't the right feeling. Furthermore, the very nice effects coming
      out of the Mix outputs of that synth were not very useful, since I'll
      end up mixing separate tracks, maybe using the KDFX as an external FX
      processor for my mix.

      And - guess what were Peter Gabriel and his keyboard assistant
      playing during the latest tour for the new album? Old sounds, for
      very fresh music.

      >The polyphony....well I won't even go there.

      This is really the sad matter. I really need a couple Kurzweils
      linked together. A used K2500 may be the answer.

      >SCSI? Outdated!

      What are other high-end workstations using these days? Korg and
      Yamaha workstation do use SCSI. So, where is the competition? I'm
      happy to continue using my SCSI gears everywere, from Macs to
      stand-alone recorders, to samplers. I hope FireWire will soon equip
      samplers, as it is (optionally) equipping the KSP8 and Triton's, but
      I hope you are not suggesting USB as a viable alternative. No longer
      USB for mass storage - never!

      >The tiny LCD...I want a bigger one.

      To waste more time cleaning it?

      >The 2 ton weight?

      This is not an easy issue to solve. Do you want metal, wood, hammer
      action keyboards? You get weight. Plastic would be a solution, but it
      would also make it more fragile, less good for hard work. Is your
      Triton-88 so much more light?

      You forgot to mention the noisy fan. That's going to be a problem in my studio.

      Best regards,
      Paolo

      --
      Paolo Tramannoni
      Porto Recanati - Italy
    • Dave Scrimenti
      Obviously, the main benefit of the Kurz is its programmability. But the better the samples, and the wider variety of them you have, the more likely it is you
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1 8:03 AM
        Obviously, the main benefit of the Kurz is its programmability. But the
        better the samples, and the wider variety of them you have, the more likely
        it is you will be able to create great sounds. Trying to create a good sound
        with a poor sample is like trying to use sophisticated equipment to repair a
        recording made with a $10 mic. It can be done, but it would be alot easier
        if you just made a good recording in the first place. I have bought CD's,
        but they're expensive and take forever to load.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Paulo Abreu" <peabreu@...>
        To: "Kurzlist" <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:07 PM
        Subject: RE: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?


        > With all the respect. I think that this last mail really shows how bad it
        > has been for Kurzweil to market such a beautiful and powerful line of
        > synths, squarely as a ROM player...ouch!!! All the K2x00 are sooo much
        more
        > than that... for electric guitar sound it is usually better to play a
        > electric guitar...or have someone play it and sample it..or...buy a sample
        > CD of electric guitars....
        >
        > My only complain with Kurz...besides price, and lack of european support
        > would be the stupid nightmare of its upgrades...its so dated the way a
        K2500
        > must be upgraded...and the nightmare to get ram for this synth...that is
        > awful, not the lack of Rom blocks (for this there are some very good
        > programmers doing CDRoms for the Kurz on this list) nor even
        > polyphony...what about OSC count...if you count the number of
        simultaneously
        > available OSCilators on a K2500/2600 you will see that it is not that far
        > from those britlle and cold 128 voices...rom things :)
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Dave Scrimenti [mailto:dscrimenti@...]
        > Sent: quinta-feira, 31 de Outubro de 2002 20:27
        > To: quantum7; kmay@...
        > Cc: KurzList@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?
        >
        >
        > I think the Kurzweil is inferior to Yamaha and Korg when it comes to
        > guitars, especially electric guitars. The jazz drums are much better on
        > Korg. And none of the Kurz basses can shake the room like the ones on my
        > Yamaha S80. I like the old sounds, and it's great to have them for
        backwards
        > compatibility. But if we ever get a K3000, it should come with 32 meg of
        rom
        > or more, before adding any plug-in boards.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: <kmay@...>
        > To: "quantum7" <quantum7@...>
        > Cc: <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 5:06 PM
        > Subject: Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?
        >
        >
        > >
        > > >>I know this will piss people off, but the K2600
        > > ROM sucks compared to....well just about every new synth on the
        planet.<<
        > >
        > > Curious, What ROM sounds would you like to have on the K2600XS that are
        > > only found on the Triton Studio or the Motif 8?
        > >
        > > >>I want a new set of ROMs
        > > that are not 11 years old.<<
        > >
        > > Are you referring to the new 4th ROM for the K2600 with the Fender
        Rhodes
        > > and Wurlitzer organ sounds??? Did these come standard on Krog and
        Yamaha
        > > 11 years ago?
        > >
        > > And who's got a samples of a Martian flushing a toilet. That I've got
        to
        > > hear.............: - )
        > >
        > > Anyway Heard Bob Moog's back again re-inventing the
        > > wheel..................anybody know what's he's up to?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "quantum7"
        > > <quantum7@charte To:
        > <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
        > > r.net> cc:
        > > Subject: Re: [KL] Re:
        > Future of Kurzweil?
        > > 10/30/2002 02:34
        > > PM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >Honestly, you must have known about Kurzweils track record before you
        > > bought your >machine. They are not known for releasing products every 3
        > > years as some companies are.
        > >
        > > Of course I know that. I've been a HUGE Kurz fan since the K250.
        > > Since
        > > 1991 I have purchased just about every Kurz product that has come out.
        I
        > > just want a 21st century Kurz, not one that is still based on 1991
        > > technology. Even my beatiful purple K2600 is nothing more than a
        K2000
        > > on
        > > steroids. I've seen huge improvements in keyboards from 1991 to 2002
        > > models, but the K2600 is still the same basic K2000 with double the
        > > polyphony and a KDFX.
        > > Yes, the Kurzweil can out-synthesize anything on the planet, but for
        those
        > > of us who do not care to spend 12 hours per day trying to make a violin
        > > sound like a martian toilet flushing, the K2600 falls way short these
        days
        > > in comparison to a Korg Triton Studio, for example. It pisses me off
        > > that
        > > I find the Triton Studio so compelling compared to my beautiful purple
        > > beast
        > > K2600XS. I want Kurzweil to compete again. I want a new set of
        ROMs
        > > that are not 11 years old. I know this will piss people off, but the
        > K2600
        > > ROM sucks compared to....well just about every new synth on the planet.
        > > It kills me to say that, believe me. For the last 5 or 6 years now,
        I
        > > use nothing but samples now. The polyphony....well I won't even go
        > > there.
        > > SCSI? Outdated! The tiny LCD...I want a bigger one. The 2 ton
        > weight?
        > > Give me a break! I used a Triton-88 note board in a band 2 years ago
        and
        > > even with my bad back it was no problem. My K2600XS on the road?
        You
        > > have got to be kidding me! I also want a Kurzweil to actually last
        more
        > > than 2 years without a button or the data wheel wigging out on me.
        > >
        > > I want Kurzweil to rule again! I've stuck up for a praised
        Kurzweil
        > > for so long that I feel I am 'allowed' to bitch and finally get this off
        > of
        > > my chest. AAAAHHHHHH.....I feel better now. May the Gods of the
        > Kurz
        > > forgive me!
        > >
        > > Sean Dockery
        > > www.quantum7.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
        > > kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
        > kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
        > kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
        kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Gregory Shiff
        I have read a lot of people asking for better samples in the Kurz. I don t think this is what the K-seris is all about. They are sick digital synthesizers
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1 8:33 AM
          I have read a lot of people asking for better samples in the Kurz. I don't
          think this is what the K-seris is all about. They are sick digital
          synthesizers with a sampling engine included.

          the basic waveforms: sine, saw, and so forth...are the best building blocks
          for the VAST engine. Try running a guitar sample through a shaper, it will
          get distorted, but not a whole lot else. Start mixing sine wave and saw
          wave, shaper 'em, filter them, reshaper them. oh yeah.

          Greg

          www.gregoryshiff.com
          Persona Records
          www.personarecords.com






          >From: "Dave Scrimenti" <dscrimenti@...>
          >To: "Kurzlist" <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>,"Paulo Abreu" <peabreu@...>
          >CC: <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?
          >Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:03:21 -0500
          >MIME-Version: 1.0
          >Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.88]) by
          >mc4-f8.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 1 Nov
          >2002 08:05:30 -0800
          >Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov
          >2002 16:03:18 -0000
          >Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 1 Nov 2002 16:03:14 -0000
          >Received: (qmail 18894 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 16:03:14 -0000
          >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP;
          >1 Nov 2002 16:03:14 -0000
          >Received: from unknown (HELO smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net) (64.8.50.39) by
          >mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 16:03:14 -0000
          >Received: from juicehound ([24.49.189.235]) by
          >smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15
          >smtprelay7 Dec 7 2001 09:58:59) with SMTP id H4WN9B02.W15; Fri, 1
          >Nov 2002 11:03:11 -0500 X-eGroups-Return:
          >sentto-2721907-9307-1036166598-gshiff=hotmail.com@...
          >X-Sender: dscrimenti@...
          >X-Apparently-To: KurzList@yahoogroups.com
          >Message-ID: <001c01c281c0$34272600$6401a8c0@juicehound>
          >References: <FFEHLBBIBACMJOEMHCJKGEKLCCAA.peabreu@...>
          >X-Priority: 3
          >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
          >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
          >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
          >Mailing-List: list KurzList@yahoogroups.com; contact
          >KurzList-owner@yahoogroups.com
          >Delivered-To: mailing list KurzList@yahoogroups.com
          >Precedence: bulk
          >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:KurzList-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
          >Return-Path:
          >sentto-2721907-9307-1036166598-gshiff=hotmail.com@...
          >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Nov 2002 16:05:30.0640 (UTC)
          >FILETIME=[8052A900:01C281C0]
          >
          >Obviously, the main benefit of the Kurz is its programmability. But the
          >better the samples, and the wider variety of them you have, the more likely
          >it is you will be able to create great sounds. Trying to create a good
          >sound
          >with a poor sample is like trying to use sophisticated equipment to repair
          >a
          >recording made with a $10 mic. It can be done, but it would be alot easier
          >if you just made a good recording in the first place. I have bought CD's,
          >but they're expensive and take forever to load.
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: "Paulo Abreu" <peabreu@...>
          >To: "Kurzlist" <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
          >Cc: <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:07 PM
          >Subject: RE: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?
          >
          >
          > > With all the respect. I think that this last mail really shows how bad
          >it
          > > has been for Kurzweil to market such a beautiful and powerful line of
          > > synths, squarely as a ROM player...ouch!!! All the K2x00 are sooo much
          >more
          > > than that... for electric guitar sound it is usually better to play a
          > > electric guitar...or have someone play it and sample it..or...buy a
          >sample
          > > CD of electric guitars....
          > >
          > > My only complain with Kurz...besides price, and lack of european support
          > > would be the stupid nightmare of its upgrades...its so dated the way a
          >K2500
          > > must be upgraded...and the nightmare to get ram for this synth...that is
          > > awful, not the lack of Rom blocks (for this there are some very good
          > > programmers doing CDRoms for the Kurz on this list) nor even
          > > polyphony...what about OSC count...if you count the number of
          >simultaneously
          > > available OSCilators on a K2500/2600 you will see that it is not that
          >far
          > > from those britlle and cold 128 voices...rom things :)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Dave Scrimenti [mailto:dscrimenti@...]
          > > Sent: quinta-feira, 31 de Outubro de 2002 20:27
          > > To: quantum7; kmay@...
          > > Cc: KurzList@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?
          > >
          > >
          > > I think the Kurzweil is inferior to Yamaha and Korg when it comes to
          > > guitars, especially electric guitars. The jazz drums are much better on
          > > Korg. And none of the Kurz basses can shake the room like the ones on my
          > > Yamaha S80. I like the old sounds, and it's great to have them for
          >backwards
          > > compatibility. But if we ever get a K3000, it should come with 32 meg of
          >rom
          > > or more, before adding any plug-in boards.
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: <kmay@...>
          > > To: "quantum7" <quantum7@...>
          > > Cc: <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 5:06 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [KL] Re: Future of Kurzweil?
          > >
          > >
          > > >
          > > > >>I know this will piss people off, but the K2600
          > > > ROM sucks compared to....well just about every new synth on the
          >planet.<<
          > > >
          > > > Curious, What ROM sounds would you like to have on the K2600XS that
          >are
          > > > only found on the Triton Studio or the Motif 8?
          > > >
          > > > >>I want a new set of ROMs
          > > > that are not 11 years old.<<
          > > >
          > > > Are you referring to the new 4th ROM for the K2600 with the Fender
          >Rhodes
          > > > and Wurlitzer organ sounds??? Did these come standard on Krog and
          >Yamaha
          > > > 11 years ago?
          > > >
          > > > And who's got a samples of a Martian flushing a toilet. That I've got
          >to
          > > > hear.............: - )
          > > >
          > > > Anyway Heard Bob Moog's back again re-inventing the
          > > > wheel..................anybody know what's he's up to?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > "quantum7"
          > > > <quantum7@charte To:
          > > <KurzList@yahoogroups.com>
          > > > r.net> cc:
          > > > Subject: Re: [KL] Re:
          > > Future of Kurzweil?
          > > > 10/30/2002 02:34
          > > > PM
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >Honestly, you must have known about Kurzweils track record before you
          > > > bought your >machine. They are not known for releasing products every
          >3
          > > > years as some companies are.
          > > >
          > > > Of course I know that. I've been a HUGE Kurz fan since the K250.
          > > > Since
          > > > 1991 I have purchased just about every Kurz product that has come out.
          >I
          > > > just want a 21st century Kurz, not one that is still based on 1991
          > > > technology. Even my beatiful purple K2600 is nothing more than a
          >K2000
          > > > on
          > > > steroids. I've seen huge improvements in keyboards from 1991 to 2002
          > > > models, but the K2600 is still the same basic K2000 with double the
          > > > polyphony and a KDFX.
          > > > Yes, the Kurzweil can out-synthesize anything on the planet, but for
          >those
          > > > of us who do not care to spend 12 hours per day trying to make a
          >violin
          > > > sound like a martian toilet flushing, the K2600 falls way short these
          >days
          > > > in comparison to a Korg Triton Studio, for example. It pisses me
          >off
          > > > that
          > > > I find the Triton Studio so compelling compared to my beautiful purple
          > > > beast
          > > > K2600XS. I want Kurzweil to compete again. I want a new set of
          >ROMs
          > > > that are not 11 years old. I know this will piss people off, but the
          > > K2600
          > > > ROM sucks compared to....well just about every new synth on the
          >planet.
          > > > It kills me to say that, believe me. For the last 5 or 6 years
          >now,
          >I
          > > > use nothing but samples now. The polyphony....well I won't even go
          > > > there.
          > > > SCSI? Outdated! The tiny LCD...I want a bigger one. The 2 ton
          > > weight?
          > > > Give me a break! I used a Triton-88 note board in a band 2 years ago
          >and
          > > > even with my bad back it was no problem. My K2600XS on the road?
          >You
          > > > have got to be kidding me! I also want a Kurzweil to actually last
          >more
          > > > than 2 years without a button or the data wheel wigging out on me.
          > > >
          > > > I want Kurzweil to rule again! I've stuck up for a praised
          >Kurzweil
          > > > for so long that I feel I am 'allowed' to bitch and finally get this
          >off
          > > of
          > > > my chest. AAAAHHHHHH.....I feel better now. May the Gods of the
          > > Kurz
          > > > forgive me!
          > > >
          > > > Sean Dockery
          > > > www.quantum7.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
          > > > kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
          > > kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
          > > kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
          >kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >To QUIT KurzList, send a *blank* message to
          >kurzlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >It will take from 24 to 48 hours for Yahoo!Groups to cancel you.
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


          _________________________________________________________________
          Get faster connections�-- switch to�MSN Internet Access!
          http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
        • Mike Hall
          ... Exactly!!! And I don t want it to be one -- for me, that implies a short product lifetime. Do all you keyboard players practice for 1/2 hour a day (or
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1 9:10 AM
            Mike Warpenburg wrote:

            > I agree. The Kurz is simply not a "Dial and Smile" machine, ...

            Exactly!!! And I don't want it to be one -- for me, that implies a short product
            lifetime.

            Do all you keyboard players practice for 1/2 hour a day (or more?) to perfect your
            craft?

            Why then would someone not choose to dig into the Kurzweil for a puny 1/2 hour a day, to
            perfect their understanding of their instrument?

            Yeah, yeah, I know: wife, kids, house, day job, dog, neighbors, hot water heater, autumn
            leaves, and the mindset that it's just an expensive Casio. :-)

            --
            Mike Hall
            http://www.enteract.com/~mghall
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.