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Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110

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  • Paul Havers
    So what s wrong with us Southerners? I live in the South West a drive to either B ham or Manchester would be horrendous you must be one of the lucky ones and
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 26, 2002
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      So what's wrong with us Southerners?
      I live in the South West a drive to either B'ham or Manchester would be horrendous
      you must be one of the lucky ones and don't use the M25

      (no hard feelings I hope)

      Paul


      At 08:37 01/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:
      Why a LOndon location for conference site?  It's easier to fly into
      Manchester and Birmingham; also, there are more Poles in the central and
      northern part of England and in Scotland.  And, it's cheaper.  Bradford
      university has a professor who has done considerable research on the Poles
      in Bradford.  There is another professor at Warwick University and a couple
      in Scotland, all researching Poles in Britain.  I have traveled to
      conferences in Poland and Holland to deliver elements of my research on the
      topic of Sybiraki in Canada and have found great interest among academic;
      many who knew only snippets of a story, but most who found the information
      quite new.  There are other European, American, and even Australian
      academics researching the topic.  If a conference was organized, would it be
      the kind that would draw academics, who could share their research, with the
      hope that proceedings would be published, or would it be a popular
      conference?  I'm interested in this...
      Helen.
      p.s. does anyone else know of academics/students/researchers conducting
      research on the wide theme of Sybiraki, relocated globally?
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:22 PM
      Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110


      > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
      > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
      > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
      > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
      > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
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      > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > There are 6 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      >       1. Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >            From: jagna8@...
      >       2. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >            From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
      >       3. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >            From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
      >       4. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >            From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
      >       5. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
      >       6. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      >    Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:29:25 EST
      >    From: jagna8@...
      > Subject: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >
      > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event? All
      > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
      > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
      try
      > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
      > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
      and
      > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
      > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
      their
      > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
      > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
      trip
      > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
      exhibitions
      > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
      MPs) -
      > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
      > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
      'compilations'
      > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey
      to
      > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in, some
      > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
      > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
      > conclusion.
      > Cheers for now, Jagna
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:52 +0000 (GMT)
      >    From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >
      > Dear all
      >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
      > Jagna's email very encouraging.
      >
      > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive
      > and very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
      >
      > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
      > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
      > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
      > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
      sufferings
      > and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story that needs
      > to be told.
      >
      > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
      > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
      >
      > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
      >
      > Best wishes
      >
      > George
      >
      > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?
      All
      > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
      > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
      try
      > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
      > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
      and
      > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
      > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
      their
      > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
      > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
      trip
      > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
      exhibitions
      > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
      MPs) -
      > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
      > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
      'compilations'
      > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian
      odyssey to
      > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
      some
      > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
      > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
      > > conclusion.
      > > Cheers for now, Jagna
      >
      >
      > --
      > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
      > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
      > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
      > Manchester UK M13 9PL
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 3
      >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:54:37 +1100
      >    From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      > Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
      > For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
      the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
      are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
      tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
      being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
      churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
      have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
      try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
      Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
      our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
      Land of our ancestors.
      > Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister are
      going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
      > Regards to everybody.
      > George Krajewski (Jurek)
      >   ----- Original Message -----
      >   From: Eve5J@...
      >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM
      >   Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >
      >   Dear Listers:
      >
      >   This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
      >   In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed.  Shortly
      >   I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
      >   the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
      >   posted a while ago for land compensation.  Although, as my
      >   father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
      >   receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
      >   and neither is revenge.  The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
      >   admission of guilt.
      >
      >   I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
      >   apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
      >   to the "wolf" at War's end.  Since the majority of the world
      >   continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
      >   during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
      >   any time in the near future.  This fact still shocks me almost
      >   as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
      >   Chris's site.
      >
      >   Eve Jankowicz
      >
      >
      >     Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
      >     Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
      >     under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on
      >     Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
      >     question was brought up.
      >
      >     Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been acknowledged
      >     for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it is
      >     a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
      >     even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
      >     residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
      >     assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.
      >
      >     Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
      >     and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
      >     What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
      >     Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as Stalin's
      >     son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
      >     writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
      >     Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
      >     revisionism, denial and whitewashing.
      >
      >     Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
      >     and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I doubt
      >     if it was shown by Moscow TV.
      >
      >     Chris, Toronto
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >     Chris,
      >
      >     When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
      >     in war?
      >
      >     We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
      >     till we are all blue in the face.  Money cannot compensate
      >     for anything, least of all the loss of  loved ones.
      >
      >     This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
      >     (bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
      >     families.  It's not a platform for airing our personal
      >     views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
      >     Elizabeth
      >
      >        From: "polish" <polish@...>
      >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >     Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
      >
      >     ____________________________________________________________________
      >
      >     Message: 8
      >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
      >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
      >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >     I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be
      able to
      >     provide this material to us.
      >     --
      >     Stefan
      >
      >     > Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
      >     > site.
      >
      >     >> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with
      The
      >     >> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
      >     >> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
      >     >> University of Toronto
      >     >> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41
      >
      >
      >     Message: 9
      >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
      >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
      >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >     If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and
      mutual
      >     support under our shared aims.  Yes, this is about recognition and it
      is
      >     about our loved ones and not just about money.
      >
      >     Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
      >     Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or
      simply
      >     worked to death in the remote USSR.  I believe that Chris' website
      "Poland's
      >     Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this
      story
      >     all too well.
      >     (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)
      >
      >     It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to
      feel a
      >     sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were
      denied
      >     for decades by the powers of the world.  Often, this question of
      >     "compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is
      required to
      >     achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move
      forward
      >     in greater harmony and understanding.
      >
      >     Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany
      was
      >     recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or
      their
      >     families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
      >     --
      >     Stefan
      >
      >     > Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
      >     >> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
      >     >> in war?
      >     >>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians
      to
      >     >>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII
      and
      >     >>> under Stalinism
      >
      >     Message: 10
      >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
      >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
      >     Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
      >
      >     I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"
      will be
      >     shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the
      Holocaust
      >     Commemoration.
      >
      >     Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few
      years
      >     time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more
      broadly
      >     recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
      >     Stefan
      >
      >     Message: 11
      >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
      >        From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...>
      >     Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia
      >
      >     Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
      >     support for our shared aims.
      >
      >     However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
      >     statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
      >     understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
      >     me and my family, and to many others.
      >
      >     Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
      >     compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
      >     acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
      >     brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
      >
      >     Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
      >     and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
      >     views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
      >     we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
      >     historical footnote?
      >
      >     If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
      >     return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
      >     uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
      >     killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
      >     this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
      >     train trip to History repeating iteslf.
      >
      >     Chris
      >
      >     Message: 12
      >        Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
      >        From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...>
      >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >     I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to
      keep
      >     alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a
      >     monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts
      to
      >     subjugate and obliterate Poland.
      >
      >     I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians
      are the
      >     same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not.
      The
      >     poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a
      legacy of
      >     betrayal and malice on her part.
      >
      >     They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can
      provide
      >     a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
      >     relatives suffered under the Russians.
      >
      >
      >
      >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
      >        From: rwtruksa@...
      >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >     Well said Stefan
      >     It is  about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of
      polish
      >     nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off
      the face
      >     of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7
      million of
      >     innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings
      and it
      >     is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted..  Perhaps it is
      not in
      >     the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
      >     Wanda
      >
      >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
      >     Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?
      >
      >     Dear John,
      >     It is one month exactly since you joined the group.  As a new member
      you may
      >     not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial
      discord or
      >     enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more
      evil.
      >
      >     To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments
      from
      >     members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.  I
      will
      >     not hesitate to do that if necessary.
      >
      >     Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few
      exchanges
      >     and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and
      recognise
      >     the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland
      that
      >     resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?
      >
      >     I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive
      debates,
      >     the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
      >     "projects" or initiatives.  One of these which is gathering strength
      is the
      >     screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around
      the
      >     world.  Another is the development of a database of deportee families
      and
      >     where they ended up after the war.  If you would like to assist with
      these
      >     or other programs, please let me know.
      >
      >     Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
      >     Stefan Wisniowski
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      >   +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
      >   +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
      >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      >   +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
      >   +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
      >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      >   +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
      >   +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      >   +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
      >   +    Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >   +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
      >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      >   +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
      >   +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      >
      >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 4
      >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:06:54 +0100
      >    From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      > Dzien dobry Jurek (George),
      >
      > Who, or what is the Goyniewicz Foundation?
      > Where is it?
      >
      > To whom, in the Polish government,  do we write to lobby
      > for full restoration of this Foundation's funding?
      >
      > Elizabeth
      >
      >   ----- Original Message -----
      >   From: george krajewski
      >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      >   Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM
      >   Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
      >
      >
      >   Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
      >   For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
      the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
      are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
      tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
      being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
      churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
      have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
      try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
      Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
      our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
      Land of our ancestors.
      >   Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister
      are going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
      >   Regards to everybody.
      >   George Krajewski (Jurek)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 5
      >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:30:53 +1300
      >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >
      > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
      > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
      > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
      >
      > JR
      >
      > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
      >
      > > Dear all
      > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
      > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
      > >
      > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
      > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
      > >
      > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
      > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
      > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
      > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
      > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
      > > that needs to be told.
      > >
      > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
      > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
      > >
      > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
      > >
      > > Best wishes
      > >
      > > George
      > >
      > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
      > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
      > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
      > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
      > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
      > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
      > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
      > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
      > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
      > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
      > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
      > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
      > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
      > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
      > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
      > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
      > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
      > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
      > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
      > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
      > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
      > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
      > >
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      >
      > John Roy-Wojciechowski
      > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
      > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
      > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
      > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 6
      >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:32:13 +1300
      >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
      >
      > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
      > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
      > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
      >
      > JR
      >
      > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
      >
      > > Dear all
      > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
      > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
      > >
      > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
      > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
      > >
      > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
      > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
      > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
      > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
      > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
      > > that needs to be told.
      > >
      > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
      > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
      > >
      > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
      > >
      > > Best wishes
      > >
      > > George
      > >
      > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
      > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
      > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
      > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
      > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
      > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
      > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
      > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
      > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
      > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
      > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
      > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
      > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
      > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
      > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
      > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
      > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
      > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
      > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
      > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
      > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
      > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
      > >
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      > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
      > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
      > > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
      > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
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      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > John Roy-Wojciechowski
      > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
      > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
      > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
      > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >


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    • Elizabeth
      Paul, As you know, I m an internet newbie . What does .....@sympatico.ca (particularly the ca ) stand for in Helen s email address? Is that the symbol
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 26, 2002
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        Paul,
         
        As you know, I'm an internet "newbie".
        What does .....@...  (particularly the "ca")
        stand for in  Helen's email address?  Is that the
        "symbol" for where she lives perhaps?
         
        Elizabeth
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 4:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110

        So what's wrong with us Southerners?
        I live in the South West a drive to either B'ham or Manchester would be horrendous
        you must be one of the lucky ones and don't use the M25

        (no hard feelings I hope)

        Paul


        At 08:37 01/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:
        Why a LOndon location for conference site?  It's easier to fly into
        Manchester and Birmingham; also, there are more Poles in the central and
        northern part of England and in Scotland.  And, it's cheaper.  Bradford
        university has a professor who has done considerable research on the Poles
        in Bradford.  There is another professor at Warwick University and a couple
        in Scotland, all researching Poles in Britain.  I have traveled to
        conferences in Poland and Holland to deliver elements of my research on the
        topic of Sybiraki in Canada and have found great interest among academic;
        many who knew only snippets of a story, but most who found the information
        quite new.  There are other European, American, and even Australian
        academics researching the topic.  If a conference was organized, would it be
        the kind that would draw academics, who could share their research, with the
        hope that proceedings would be published, or would it be a popular
        conference?  I'm interested in this...
        Helen.
        p.s. does anyone else know of academics/students/researchers conducting
        research on the wide theme of Sybiraki, relocated globally?
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
        To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:22 PM
        Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110


        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
        > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
        > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
        > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
        > +    Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > There are 6 messages in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        >       1. Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >            From: jagna8@...
        >       2. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >            From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
        >       3. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >            From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
        >       4. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >            From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
        >       5. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
        >       6. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 1
        >    Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:29:25 EST
        >    From: jagna8@...
        > Subject: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >
        > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event? All
        > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
        > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
        try
        > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
        > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
        and
        > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
        > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
        their
        > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
        > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
        trip
        > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
        exhibitions
        > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
        MPs) -
        > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
        > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
        'compilations'
        > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey
        to
        > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in, some
        > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
        > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
        > conclusion.
        > Cheers for now, Jagna
        >
        >
        > [This message contained attachments]
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 2
        >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:52 +0000 (GMT)
        >    From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >
        > Dear all
        >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
        > Jagna's email very encouraging.
        >
        > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive
        > and very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
        >
        > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
        > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
        > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
        > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
        sufferings
        > and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story that needs
        > to be told.
        >
        > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
        > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
        >
        > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
        >
        > Best wishes
        >
        > George
        >
        > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?
        All
        > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
        > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
        try
        > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
        > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
        and
        > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
        > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
        their
        > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
        > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
        trip
        > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
        exhibitions
        > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
        MPs) -
        > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
        > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
        'compilations'
        > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian
        odyssey to
        > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
        some
        > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
        > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
        > > conclusion.
        > > Cheers for now, Jagna
        >
        >
        > --
        > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
        > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
        > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
        > Manchester UK M13 9PL
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 3
        >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:54:37 +1100
        >    From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        > Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
        > For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
        the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
        are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
        tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
        being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
        churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
        have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
        try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
        Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
        our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
        Land of our ancestors.
        > Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister are
        going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
        > Regards to everybody.
        > George Krajewski (Jurek)
        >   ----- Original Message -----
        >   From: Eve5J@...
        >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM
        >   Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >
        >   Dear Listers:
        >
        >   This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
        >   In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed.  Shortly
        >   I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
        >   the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
        >   posted a while ago for land compensation.  Although, as my
        >   father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
        >   receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
        >   and neither is revenge.  The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
        >   admission of guilt.
        >
        >   I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
        >   apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
        >   to the "wolf" at War's end.  Since the majority of the world
        >   continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
        >   during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
        >   any time in the near future.  This fact still shocks me almost
        >   as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
        >   Chris's site.
        >
        >   Eve Jankowicz
        >
        >
        >     Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
        >     Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
        >     under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on
        >     Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
        >     question was brought up.
        >
        >     Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been acknowledged
        >     for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it is
        >     a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
        >     even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
        >     residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
        >     assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.
        >
        >     Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
        >     and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
        >     What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
        >     Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as Stalin's
        >     son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
        >     writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
        >     Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
        >     revisionism, denial and whitewashing.
        >
        >     Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
        >     and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I doubt
        >     if it was shown by Moscow TV.
        >
        >     Chris, Toronto
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >     Chris,
        >
        >     When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
        >     in war?
        >
        >     We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
        >     till we are all blue in the face.  Money cannot compensate
        >     for anything, least of all the loss of  loved ones.
        >
        >     This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
        >     (bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
        >     families.  It's not a platform for airing our personal
        >     views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
        >     Elizabeth
        >
        >        From: "polish" <polish@...>
        >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >     Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
        >
        >     ____________________________________________________________________
        >
        >     Message: 8
        >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
        >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
        >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >     I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be
        able to
        >     provide this material to us.
        >     --
        >     Stefan
        >
        >     > Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
        >     > site.
        >
        >     >> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with
        The
        >     >> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
        >     >> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
        >     >> University of Toronto
        >     >> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41
        >
        >
        >     Message: 9
        >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
        >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
        >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >     If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and
        mutual
        >     support under our shared aims.  Yes, this is about recognition and it
        is
        >     about our loved ones and not just about money.
        >
        >     Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
        >     Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or
        simply
        >     worked to death in the remote USSR.  I believe that Chris' website
        "Poland's
        >     Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this
        story
        >     all too well.
        >     (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)
        >
        >     It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to
        feel a
        >     sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were
        denied
        >     for decades by the powers of the world.  Often, this question of
        >     "compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is
        required to
        >     achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move
        forward
        >     in greater harmony and understanding.
        >
        >     Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany
        was
        >     recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or
        their
        >     families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
        >     --
        >     Stefan
        >
        >     > Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
        >     >> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
        >     >> in war?
        >     >>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians
        to
        >     >>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII
        and
        >     >>> under Stalinism
        >
        >     Message: 10
        >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
        >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
        >     Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
        >
        >     I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"
        will be
        >     shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the
        Holocaust
        >     Commemoration.
        >
        >     Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few
        years
        >     time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more
        broadly
        >     recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
        >     Stefan
        >
        >     Message: 11
        >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
        >        From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...>
        >     Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia
        >
        >     Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
        >     support for our shared aims.
        >
        >     However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
        >     statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
        >     understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
        >     me and my family, and to many others.
        >
        >     Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
        >     compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
        >     acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
        >     brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
        >
        >     Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
        >     and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
        >     views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
        >     we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
        >     historical footnote?
        >
        >     If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
        >     return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
        >     uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
        >     killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
        >     this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
        >     train trip to History repeating iteslf.
        >
        >     Chris
        >
        >     Message: 12
        >        Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
        >        From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...>
        >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >     I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to
        keep
        >     alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a
        >     monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts
        to
        >     subjugate and obliterate Poland.
        >
        >     I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians
        are the
        >     same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not.
        The
        >     poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a
        legacy of
        >     betrayal and malice on her part.
        >
        >     They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can
        provide
        >     a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
        >     relatives suffered under the Russians.
        >
        >
        >
        >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
        >        From: rwtruksa@...
        >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >     Well said Stefan
        >     It is  about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of
        polish
        >     nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off
        the face
        >     of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7
        million of
        >     innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings
        and it
        >     is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted..  Perhaps it is
        not in
        >     the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
        >     Wanda
        >
        >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
        >     Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?
        >
        >     Dear John,
        >     It is one month exactly since you joined the group.  As a new member
        you may
        >     not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial
        discord or
        >     enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more
        evil.
        >
        >     To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments
        from
        >     members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.  I
        will
        >     not hesitate to do that if necessary.
        >
        >     Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few
        exchanges
        >     and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and
        recognise
        >     the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland
        that
        >     resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?
        >
        >     I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive
        debates,
        >     the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
        >     "projects" or initiatives.  One of these which is gathering strength
        is the
        >     screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around
        the
        >     world.  Another is the development of a database of deportee families
        and
        >     where they ended up after the war.  If you would like to assist with
        these
        >     or other programs, please let me know.
        >
        >     Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
        >     Stefan Wisniowski
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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        >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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        >
        >
        > [This message contained attachments]
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 4
        >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:06:54 +0100
        >    From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        > Dzien dobry Jurek (George),
        >
        > Who, or what is the Goyniewicz Foundation?
        > Where is it?
        >
        > To whom, in the Polish government,  do we write to lobby
        > for full restoration of this Foundation's funding?
        >
        > Elizabeth
        >
        >   ----- Original Message -----
        >   From: george krajewski
        >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        >   Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM
        >   Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
        >
        >
        >   Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
        >   For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
        the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
        are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
        tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
        being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
        churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
        have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
        try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
        Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
        our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
        Land of our ancestors.
        >   Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister
        are going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
        >   Regards to everybody.
        >   George Krajewski (Jurek)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [This message contained attachments]
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 5
        >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:30:53 +1300
        >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >
        > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
        > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
        > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
        >
        > JR
        >
        > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
        >
        > > Dear all
        > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
        > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
        > >
        > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
        > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
        > >
        > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
        > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
        > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
        > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
        > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
        > > that needs to be told.
        > >
        > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
        > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
        > >
        > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
        > >
        > > Best wishes
        > >
        > > George
        > >
        > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
        > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
        > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
        > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
        > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
        > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
        > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
        > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
        > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
        > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
        > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
        > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
        > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
        > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
        > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
        > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
        > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
        > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
        > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
        > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
        > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
        > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
        > >
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        > > ->
        > >
        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
        > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
        > > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
        > > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > John Roy-Wojciechowski
        > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
        > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
        > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
        > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 6
        >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:32:13 +1300
        >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
        >
        > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
        > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
        > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
        >
        > JR
        >
        > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
        >
        > > Dear all
        > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
        > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
        > >
        > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
        > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
        > >
        > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
        > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
        > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
        > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
        > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
        > > that needs to be told.
        > >
        > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
        > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
        > >
        > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
        > >
        > > Best wishes
        > >
        > > George
        > >
        > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
        > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
        > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
        > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
        > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
        > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
        > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
        > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
        > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
        > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
        > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
        > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
        > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
        > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
        > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
        > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
        > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
        > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
        > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
        > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
        > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
        > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
        > >
        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > > ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE
        > > CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial
        > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/bTwplB/TM
        > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
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        > >
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        > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
        > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
        > > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
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        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > John Roy-Wojciechowski
        > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
        > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
        > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
        > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >


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      • Elizabeth
        Helen, Just an idea : how about getting in touch with Prof. Norman Davies (Wolfson College, Oxford) the guy who wrote God s Playground, a History of Poland .
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 26, 2002
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        • 0 Attachment
          Helen,

          Just an idea : how about getting in touch with
          Prof. Norman Davies (Wolfson College, Oxford)
          the guy who wrote "God's Playground, a History of Poland".
          Couple of years ago I flew to London (from the Netherlands)
          to hear him deliver a lecture on Poland at the Slavonic Institute,
          London.

          I've got a feeling the subject Sybiraki would interest him.

          Elizabeth

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "H. MacDonald" <hel.mac@...>
          To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 2:37 PM
          Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110


          > Why a LOndon location for conference site? It's easier to fly into
          > Manchester and Birmingham; also, there are more Poles in the central and
          > northern part of England and in Scotland. And, it's cheaper. Bradford
          > university has a professor who has done considerable research on the Poles
          > in Bradford. There is another professor at Warwick University and a
          couple
          > in Scotland, all researching Poles in Britain. I have traveled to
          > conferences in Poland and Holland to deliver elements of my research on
          the
          > topic of Sybiraki in Canada and have found great interest among academic;
          > many who knew only snippets of a story, but most who found the information
          > quite new. There are other European, American, and even Australian
          > academics researching the topic. If a conference was organized, would it
          be
          > the kind that would draw academics, who could share their research, with
          the
          > hope that proceedings would be published, or would it be a popular
          > conference? I'm interested in this...
          > Helen.
          > p.s. does anyone else know of academics/students/researchers conducting
          > research on the wide theme of Sybiraki, relocated globally?
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
          > To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:22 PM
          > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110
          >
          >
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
          > > + Research, Remembrance, Recognition
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + Websites: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
          > > + http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
          > > + Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
          > > + Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
          > > + saying who you are and your interest in the group
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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          > > + Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > There are 6 messages in this issue.
          > >
          > > Topics in this digest:
          > >
          > > 1. Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > > From: jagna8@...
          > > 2. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > > From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
          > > 3. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > > From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
          > > 4. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > > From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
          > > 5. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > > From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
          > > 6. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > > From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > > Message: 1
          > > Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:29:25 EST
          > > From: jagna8@...
          > > Subject: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > >
          > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?
          All
          > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
          > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
          > try
          > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
          > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
          > and
          > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
          > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
          > their
          > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
          > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
          > trip
          > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
          > exhibitions
          > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
          > MPs) -
          > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
          > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
          > 'compilations'
          > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian
          odyssey
          > to
          > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
          some
          > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
          > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
          > > conclusion.
          > > Cheers for now, Jagna
          > >
          > >
          > > [This message contained attachments]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > > Message: 2
          > > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:52 +0000 (GMT)
          > > From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > >
          > > Dear all
          > > Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
          > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
          > >
          > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive
          > > and very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
          > >
          > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
          > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
          > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
          > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
          > sufferings
          > > and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story that needs
          > > to be told.
          > >
          > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
          > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
          > >
          > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
          > >
          > > Best wishes
          > >
          > > George
          > >
          > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?
          > All
          > > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
          > > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice -
          will
          > try
          > > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to
          find -
          > > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
          patriotic,
          > and
          > > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we
          should
          > > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit
          of
          > their
          > > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
          > > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during
          our
          > trip
          > > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
          > exhibitions
          > > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
          > MPs) -
          > > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
          > > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
          > 'compilations'
          > > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian
          > odyssey to
          > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
          > some
          > > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
          > > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
          > > > conclusion.
          > > > Cheers for now, Jagna
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
          > > Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
          > > University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
          > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > > Message: 3
          > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:54:37 +1100
          > > From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
          > > For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
          > the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
          > are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we
          send
          > tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
          > being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
          > churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that
          we
          > have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
          > try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
          > Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
          > our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
          > Land of our ancestors.
          > > Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister
          are
          > going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
          > > Regards to everybody.
          > > George Krajewski (Jurek)
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Eve5J@...
          > > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM
          > > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > >
          > > Dear Listers:
          > >
          > > This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
          > > In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed. Shortly
          > > I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
          > > the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
          > > posted a while ago for land compensation. Although, as my
          > > father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
          > > receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
          > > and neither is revenge. The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
          > > admission of guilt.
          > >
          > > I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
          > > apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
          > > to the "wolf" at War's end. Since the majority of the world
          > > continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
          > > during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
          > > any time in the near future. This fact still shocks me almost
          > > as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
          > > Chris's site.
          > >
          > > Eve Jankowicz
          > >
          > >
          > > Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
          > > Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
          > > under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on
          > > Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
          > > question was brought up.
          > >
          > > Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been
          acknowledged
          > > for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it
          is
          > > a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
          > > even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
          > > residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
          > > assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.
          > >
          > > Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
          > > and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
          > > What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
          > > Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as
          Stalin's
          > > son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
          > > writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
          > > Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
          > > revisionism, denial and whitewashing.
          > >
          > > Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
          > > and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I
          doubt
          > > if it was shown by Moscow TV.
          > >
          > > Chris, Toronto
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > Chris,
          > >
          > > When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
          > > in war?
          > >
          > > We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
          > > till we are all blue in the face. Money cannot compensate
          > > for anything, least of all the loss of loved ones.
          > >
          > > This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
          > > (bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
          > > families. It's not a platform for airing our personal
          > > views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
          > > Elizabeth
          > >
          > > From: "polish" <polish@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
          > >
          > > ____________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > > Message: 8
          > > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
          > > From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be
          > able to
          > > provide this material to us.
          > > --
          > > Stefan
          > >
          > > > Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
          > > > site.
          > >
          > > >> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with
          > The
          > > >> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
          > > >> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
          > > >> University of Toronto
          > > >> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41
          > >
          > >
          > > Message: 9
          > > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
          > > From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and
          > mutual
          > > support under our shared aims. Yes, this is about recognition and
          it
          > is
          > > about our loved ones and not just about money.
          > >
          > > Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
          > > Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn
          or
          > simply
          > > worked to death in the remote USSR. I believe that Chris' website
          > "Poland's
          > > Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this
          > story
          > > all too well.
          > > (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)
          > >
          > > It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not
          to
          > feel a
          > > sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were
          > denied
          > > for decades by the powers of the world. Often, this question of
          > > "compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is
          > required to
          > > achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move
          > forward
          > > in greater harmony and understanding.
          > >
          > > Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany
          > was
          > > recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or
          > their
          > > families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
          > > --
          > > Stefan
          > >
          > > > Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
          > > >> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
          > > >> in war?
          > > >>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the
          Soviets/Russians
          > to
          > > >>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII
          > and
          > > >>> under Stalinism
          > >
          > > Message: 10
          > > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
          > > From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
          > > Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
          > >
          > > I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"
          > will be
          > > shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the
          > Holocaust
          > > Commemoration.
          > >
          > > Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few
          > years
          > > time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more
          > broadly
          > > recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
          > > Stefan
          > >
          > > Message: 11
          > > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
          > > From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia
          > >
          > > Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
          > > support for our shared aims.
          > >
          > > However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
          > > statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
          > > understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
          > > me and my family, and to many others.
          > >
          > > Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
          > > compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
          > > acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
          > > brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
          > >
          > > Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
          > > and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our
          impersonal
          > > views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
          > > we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
          > > historical footnote?
          > >
          > > If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about
          the
          > > return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
          > > uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
          > > killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
          > > this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
          > > train trip to History repeating iteslf.
          > >
          > > Chris
          > >
          > > Message: 12
          > > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
          > > From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is
          to
          > keep
          > > alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was
          a
          > > monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian
          attempts
          > to
          > > subjugate and obliterate Poland.
          > >
          > > I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians
          > are the
          > > same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or
          not.
          > The
          > > poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a
          > legacy of
          > > betrayal and malice on her part.
          > >
          > > They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can
          > provide
          > > a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
          > > relatives suffered under the Russians.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
          > > From: rwtruksa@...
          > > Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > Well said Stefan
          > > It is about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of
          > polish
          > > nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off
          > the face
          > > of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7
          > million of
          > > innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings
          > and it
          > > is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted.. Perhaps it is
          > not in
          > > the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
          > > Wanda
          > >
          > > From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?
          > >
          > > Dear John,
          > > It is one month exactly since you joined the group. As a new member
          > you may
          > > not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial
          > discord or
          > > enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were
          more
          > evil.
          > >
          > > To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments
          > from
          > > members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.
          I
          > will
          > > not hesitate to do that if necessary.
          > >
          > > Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few
          > exchanges
          > > and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and
          > recognise
          > > the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland
          > that
          > > resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?
          > >
          > > I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive
          > debates,
          > > the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
          > > "projects" or initiatives. One of these which is gathering strength
          > is the
          > > screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around
          > the
          > > world. Another is the development of a database of deportee
          families
          > and
          > > where they ended up after the war. If you would like to assist with
          > these
          > > or other programs, please let me know.
          > >
          > > Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
          > > Stefan Wisniowski
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
          > > + Research, Remembrance, Recognition
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + Websites: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
          > > + http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
          > > + Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
          > > + Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
          > > + saying who you are and your interest in the group
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > + To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > > + Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [This message contained attachments]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > > Message: 4
          > > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:06:54 +0100
          > > From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > > Dzien dobry Jurek (George),
          > >
          > > Who, or what is the Goyniewicz Foundation?
          > > Where is it?
          > >
          > > To whom, in the Polish government, do we write to lobby
          > > for full restoration of this Foundation's funding?
          > >
          > > Elizabeth
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: george krajewski
          > > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
          > >
          > >
          > > Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
          > > For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I
          have
          > the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
          > are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we
          send
          > tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
          > being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
          > churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that
          we
          > have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
          > try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
          > Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
          > our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
          > Land of our ancestors.
          > > Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister
          > are going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
          > > Regards to everybody.
          > > George Krajewski (Jurek)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [This message contained attachments]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > > Message: 5
          > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:30:53 +1300
          > > From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > >
          > > Do not despair. I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
          > > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
          > > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
          > >
          > > JR
          > >
          > > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
          > >
          > > > Dear all
          > > > Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
          > > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
          > > >
          > > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
          > > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
          > > >
          > > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
          > > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
          > > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
          > > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
          > > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
          > > > that needs to be told.
          > > >
          > > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
          > > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
          > > >
          > > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
          > > >
          > > > Best wishes
          > > >
          > > > George
          > > >
          > > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
          > > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
          > > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
          > > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
          > > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
          > > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
          > > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
          > > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
          > > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
          > > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
          > > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
          > > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
          > > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
          > > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
          > > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
          > > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
          > > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
          > > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
          > > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > > George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
          > > > Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
          > > > University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
          > > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > > ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE
          > > > CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial
          > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/bTwplB/TM
          > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
          > > > ->
          > > >
          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > > + KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
          > > > + Research, Remembrance, Recognition
          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > > + Websites: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
          > > > + http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > > + Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
          > > > + Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > > + To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
          > > > + Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
          > > > + saying who you are and your interest in the group
          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > > + To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > > > + Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > John Roy-Wojciechowski
          > > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
          > > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
          > > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
          > > e-mail polish@... website www.polishheritage.co.nz
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > > ________________________________________________________________________
          > >
          > > Message: 6
          > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:32:13 +1300
          > > From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
          > > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
          > >
          > > Do not despair. I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
          > > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
          > > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
          > >
          > > JR
          > >
          > > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
          > >
          > > > Dear all
          > > > Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
          > > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
          > > >
          > > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
          > > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
          > > >
          > > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
          > > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
          > > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
          > > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
          > > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
          > > > that needs to be told.
          > > >
          > > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
          > > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
          > > >
          > > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
          > > >
          > > > Best wishes
          > > >
          > > > George
          > > >
          > > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
          > > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
          > > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
          > > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
          > > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
          > > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
          > > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
          > > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
          > > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
          > > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
          > > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
          > > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
          > > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
          > > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
          > > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
          > > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
          > > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
          > > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
          > > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > > George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
          > > > Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
          > > > University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
          > > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
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          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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          > > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
          > > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
          > > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
          > > e-mail polish@... website www.polishheritage.co.nz
          > >
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        • Paul Havers
          Elizabeth the but after the @ sign denotes the Internet service provider and the .CA or any other is generally linked to a country In this case it s Canada
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 26, 2002
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            Elizabeth

            the but after the @ sign denotes the Internet service provider and the ".CA" or any other is generally linked to a country
            In this case it's Canada

            Paul

            At 18:23 01/26/2002 +0100, you wrote:
            Paul,
             
            As you know, I'm an internet "newbie".
            What does .....@...  (particularly the "ca")
            stand for in  Helen's email address?  Is that the
            "symbol" for where she lives perhaps?
             
            Elizabeth
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Paul Havers
            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 4:10 PM
            Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110

            So what's wrong with us Southerners?
            I live in the South West a drive to either B'ham or Manchester would be horrendous
            you must be one of the lucky ones and don't use the M25

            (no hard feelings I hope)

            Paul



            At 08:37 01/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:
            Why a LOndon location for conference site?  It's easier to fly into
            Manchester and Birmingham; also, there are more Poles in the central and
            northern part of England and in Scotland.  And, it's cheaper.  Bradford
            university has a professor who has done considerable research on the Poles
            in Bradford.  There is another professor at Warwick University and a couple
            in Scotland, all researching Poles in Britain.  I have traveled to
            conferences in Poland and Holland to deliver elements of my research on the
            topic of Sybiraki in Canada and have found great interest among academic;
            many who knew only snippets of a story, but most who found the information
            quite new.  There are other European, American, and even Australian
            academics researching the topic.  If a conference was organized, would it be
            the kind that would draw academics, who could share their research, with the
            hope that proceedings would be published, or would it be a popular
            conference?  I'm interested in this...
            Helen.
            p.s. does anyone else know of academics/students/researchers conducting
            research on the wide theme of Sybiraki, relocated globally?
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
            To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:22 PM
            Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110



            > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
            > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
            > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
            > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
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            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            > There are 6 messages in this issue.
            >
            > Topics in this digest:
            >
            >       1. Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >            From: jagna8@...
            >       2. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >            From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
            >       3. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >            From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
            >       4. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >            From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
            >       5. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
            >       6. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            >
            > Message: 1
            >    Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:29:25 EST
            >    From: jagna8@...
            > Subject: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >
            > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event? All
            > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
            > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
            try
            > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
            > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
            and
            > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
            > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
            their
            > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
            > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
            trip
            > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
            exhibitions
            > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
            MPs) -
            > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
            > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
            'compilations'
            > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey
            to
            > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in, some
            > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
            > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
            > conclusion.
            > Cheers for now, Jagna
            >
            >
            > [This message contained attachments]
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            >
            > Message: 2
            >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:52 +0000 (GMT)
            >    From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
            > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >
            > Dear all
            >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
            > Jagna's email very encouraging.
            >
            > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive
            > and very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
            >
            > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
            > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
            > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
            > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
            sufferings
            > and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story that needs
            > to be told.
            >
            > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
            > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
            >
            > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
            >
            > Best wishes
            >
            > George
            >
            > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?
            All
            > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
            > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
            try
            > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
            > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
            and
            > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
            > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
            their
            > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
            > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
            trip
            > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
            exhibitions
            > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
            MPs) -
            > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
            > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
            'compilations'
            > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian
            odyssey to
            > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
            some
            > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
            > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
            > > conclusion.
            > > Cheers for now, Jagna
            >
            >
            > --
            > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
            > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
            > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
            > Manchester UK M13 9PL
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            >
            > Message: 3
            >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:54:37 +1100
            >    From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
            > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            > Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
            > For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
            the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
            are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
            tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
            being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
            churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
            have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
            try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
            Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
            our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
            Land of our ancestors.
            > Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister are
            going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
            > Regards to everybody.
            > George Krajewski (Jurek)
            >   ----- Original Message -----
            >   From: Eve5J@...
            >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM
            >   Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >
            >   Dear Listers:
            >
            >   This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
            >   In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed.  Shortly
            >   I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
            >   the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
            >   posted a while ago for land compensation.  Although, as my
            >   father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
            >   receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
            >   and neither is revenge.  The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
            >   admission of guilt.
            >
            >   I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
            >   apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
            >   to the "wolf" at War's end.  Since the majority of the world
            >   continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
            >   during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
            >   any time in the near future.  This fact still shocks me almost
            >   as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
            >   Chris's site.
            >
            >   Eve Jankowicz
            >
            >
            >     Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
            >     Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
            >     under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on
            >     Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
            >     question was brought up.
            >
            >     Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been acknowledged
            >     for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it is
            >     a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
            >     even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
            >     residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
            >     assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.
            >
            >     Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
            >     and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
            >     What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
            >     Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as Stalin's
            >     son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
            >     writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
            >     Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
            >     revisionism, denial and whitewashing.
            >
            >     Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
            >     and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I doubt
            >     if it was shown by Moscow TV.
            >
            >     Chris, Toronto
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >     Chris,
            >
            >     When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
            >     in war?
            >
            >     We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
            >     till we are all blue in the face.  Money cannot compensate
            >     for anything, least of all the loss of  loved ones.
            >
            >     This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
            >     (bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
            >     families.  It's not a platform for airing our personal
            >     views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
            >     Elizabeth
            >
            >        From: "polish" <polish@...>
            >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >     Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
            >
            >     ____________________________________________________________________
            >
            >     Message: 8
            >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
            >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
            >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >     I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be
            able to
            >     provide this material to us.
            >     --
            >     Stefan
            >
            >     > Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
            >     > site.
            >
            >     >> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with
            The
            >     >> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
            >     >> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
            >     >> University of Toronto
            >     >> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41
            >
            >
            >     Message: 9
            >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
            >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
            >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >     If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and
            mutual
            >     support under our shared aims.  Yes, this is about recognition and it
            is
            >     about our loved ones and not just about money.
            >
            >     Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
            >     Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or
            simply
            >     worked to death in the remote USSR.  I believe that Chris' website
            "Poland's
            >     Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this
            story
            >     all too well.
            >     (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)
            >
            >     It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to
            feel a
            >     sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were
            denied
            >     for decades by the powers of the world.  Often, this question of
            >     "compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is
            required to
            >     achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move
            forward
            >     in greater harmony and understanding.
            >
            >     Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany
            was
            >     recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or
            their
            >     families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
            >     --
            >     Stefan
            >
            >     > Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
            >     >> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
            >     >> in war?
            >     >>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians
            to
            >     >>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII
            and
            >     >>> under Stalinism
            >
            >     Message: 10
            >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
            >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
            >     Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
            >
            >     I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"
            will be
            >     shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the
            Holocaust
            >     Commemoration.
            >
            >     Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few
            years
            >     time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more
            broadly
            >     recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
            >     Stefan
            >
            >     Message: 11
            >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
            >        From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...>
            >     Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia
            >
            >     Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
            >     support for our shared aims.
            >
            >     However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
            >     statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
            >     understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
            >     me and my family, and to many others.
            >
            >     Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
            >     compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
            >     acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
            >     brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
            >
            >     Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
            >     and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
            >     views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
            >     we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
            >     historical footnote?
            >
            >     If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
            >     return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
            >     uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
            >     killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
            >     this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
            >     train trip to History repeating iteslf.
            >
            >     Chris
            >
            >     Message: 12
            >        Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
            >        From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...>
            >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >     I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to
            keep
            >     alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a
            >     monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts
            to
            >     subjugate and obliterate Poland.
            >
            >     I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians
            are the
            >     same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not.
            The
            >     poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a
            legacy of
            >     betrayal and malice on her part.
            >
            >     They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can
            provide
            >     a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
            >     relatives suffered under the Russians.
            >
            >
            >
            >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
            >        From: rwtruksa@...
            >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >     Well said Stefan
            >     It is  about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of
            polish
            >     nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off
            the face
            >     of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7
            million of
            >     innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings
            and it
            >     is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted..  Perhaps it is
            not in
            >     the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
            >     Wanda
            >
            >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
            >     Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?
            >
            >     Dear John,
            >     It is one month exactly since you joined the group.  As a new member
            you may
            >     not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial
            discord or
            >     enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more
            evil.
            >
            >     To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments
            from
            >     members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.  I
            will
            >     not hesitate to do that if necessary.
            >
            >     Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few
            exchanges
            >     and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and
            recognise
            >     the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland
            that
            >     resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?
            >
            >     I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive
            debates,
            >     the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
            >     "projects" or initiatives.  One of these which is gathering strength
            is the
            >     screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around
            the
            >     world.  Another is the development of a database of deportee families
            and
            >     where they ended up after the war.  If you would like to assist with
            these
            >     or other programs, please let me know.
            >
            >     Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
            >     Stefan Wisniowski
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            >   +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
            >   +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
            >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            >   +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
            >   +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
            >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            >   +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
            >   +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            >   +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
            >   +    Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
            >   +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
            >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            >   +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
            >   +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            >
            >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [This message contained attachments]
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            >
            > Message: 4
            >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:06:54 +0100
            >    From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
            > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            > Dzien dobry Jurek (George),
            >
            > Who, or what is the Goyniewicz Foundation?
            > Where is it?
            >
            > To whom, in the Polish government,  do we write to lobby
            > for full restoration of this Foundation's funding?
            >
            > Elizabeth
            >
            >   ----- Original Message -----
            >   From: george krajewski
            >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            >   Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM
            >   Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
            >
            >
            >   Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
            >   For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
            the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
            are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
            tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
            being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
            churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
            have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
            try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
            Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
            our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
            Land of our ancestors.
            >   Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister
            are going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
            >   Regards to everybody.
            >   George Krajewski (Jurek)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [This message contained attachments]
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            >
            > Message: 5
            >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:30:53 +1300
            >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
            > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >
            > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
            > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
            > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
            >
            > JR
            >
            > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
            >
            > > Dear all
            > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
            > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
            > >
            > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
            > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
            > >
            > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
            > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
            > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
            > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
            > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
            > > that needs to be told.
            > >
            > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
            > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
            > >
            > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
            > >
            > > Best wishes
            > >
            > > George
            > >
            > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
            > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
            > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
            > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
            > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
            > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
            > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
            > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
            > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
            > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
            > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
            > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
            > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
            > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
            > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
            > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
            > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
            > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
            > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
            > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
            > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
            > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
            > >
            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
            > > ->
            > >
            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
            > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
            > > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
            > > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
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            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
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            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > John Roy-Wojciechowski
            > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
            > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
            > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
            > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            >
            > Message: 6
            >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:32:13 +1300
            >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
            > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
            >
            > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
            > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
            > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
            >
            > JR
            >
            > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
            >
            > > Dear all
            > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
            > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
            > >
            > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
            > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
            > >
            > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
            > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
            > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
            > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
            > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
            > > that needs to be told.
            > >
            > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
            > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
            > >
            > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
            > >
            > > Best wishes
            > >
            > > George
            > >
            > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
            > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
            > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
            > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
            > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
            > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
            > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
            > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
            > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
            > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
            > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
            > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
            > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
            > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
            > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
            > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
            > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
            > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
            > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
            > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
            > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
            > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
            > >
            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
            > > ->
            > >
            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
            > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
            > > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
            > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
            > > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
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            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > John Roy-Wojciechowski
            > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
            > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
            > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
            > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >



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          • Michael Adamski
            In E-maill address sympatico is a high speed server and ca stands for Canada. Michael Adamski ... From: Elizabeth To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 26, 2002
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
               In E-maill address ' sympatico ' is a high speed server and ' ca ' stands for Canada.
                               Michael Adamski
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Elizabeth
              Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 12:23 PM
              Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110

              Paul,
               
              As you know, I'm an internet "newbie".
              What does .....@...  (particularly the "ca")
              stand for in  Helen's email address?  Is that the
              "symbol" for where she lives perhaps?
               
              Elizabeth
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 4:10 PM
              Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110

              So what's wrong with us Southerners?
              I live in the South West a drive to either B'ham or Manchester would be horrendous
              you must be one of the lucky ones and don't use the M25

              (no hard feelings I hope)

              Paul


              At 08:37 01/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:
              Why a LOndon location for conference site?  It's easier to fly into
              Manchester and Birmingham; also, there are more Poles in the central and
              northern part of England and in Scotland.  And, it's cheaper.  Bradford
              university has a professor who has done considerable research on the Poles
              in Bradford.  There is another professor at Warwick University and a couple
              in Scotland, all researching Poles in Britain.  I have traveled to
              conferences in Poland and Holland to deliver elements of my research on the
              topic of Sybiraki in Canada and have found great interest among academic;
              many who knew only snippets of a story, but most who found the information
              quite new.  There are other European, American, and even Australian
              academics researching the topic.  If a conference was organized, would it be
              the kind that would draw academics, who could share their research, with the
              hope that proceedings would be published, or would it be a popular
              conference?  I'm interested in this...
              Helen.
              p.s. does anyone else know of academics/students/researchers conducting
              research on the wide theme of Sybiraki, relocated globally?
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
              To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:22 PM
              Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110


              > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
              > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition
              > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              > +    Websites:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
              > +                         http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
              > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
              > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              > +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
              > +    Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
              > +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
              > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              > +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
              > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > There are 6 messages in this issue.
              >
              > Topics in this digest:
              >
              >       1. Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >            From: jagna8@...
              >       2. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >            From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
              >       3. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >            From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
              >       4. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >            From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
              >       5. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
              >       6. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              >
              > Message: 1
              >    Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:29:25 EST
              >    From: jagna8@...
              > Subject: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >
              > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event? All
              > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
              > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
              try
              > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
              > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
              and
              > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
              > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
              their
              > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
              > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
              trip
              > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
              exhibitions
              > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
              MPs) -
              > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
              > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
              'compilations'
              > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey
              to
              > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in, some
              > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
              > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
              > conclusion.
              > Cheers for now, Jagna
              >
              >
              > [This message contained attachments]
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              >
              > Message: 2
              >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:52 +0000 (GMT)
              >    From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
              > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >
              > Dear all
              >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
              > Jagna's email very encouraging.
              >
              > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive
              > and very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
              >
              > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
              > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
              > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
              > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
              sufferings
              > and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story that needs
              > to be told.
              >
              > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
              > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
              >
              > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
              >
              > Best wishes
              >
              > George
              >
              > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?
              All
              > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
              > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will
              try
              > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
              > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,
              and
              > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
              > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of
              their
              > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
              > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our
              trip
              > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the
              exhibitions
              > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important
              MPs) -
              > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
              > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political
              'compilations'
              > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian
              odyssey to
              > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
              some
              > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
              > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
              > > conclusion.
              > > Cheers for now, Jagna
              >
              >
              > --
              > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
              > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
              > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
              > Manchester UK M13 9PL
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              >
              > Message: 3
              >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:54:37 +1100
              >    From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
              > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              > Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
              > For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
              the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
              are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
              tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
              being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
              churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
              have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
              try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
              Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
              our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
              Land of our ancestors.
              > Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister are
              going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
              > Regards to everybody.
              > George Krajewski (Jurek)
              >   ----- Original Message -----
              >   From: Eve5J@...
              >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM
              >   Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >
              >   Dear Listers:
              >
              >   This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
              >   In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed.  Shortly
              >   I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
              >   the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
              >   posted a while ago for land compensation.  Although, as my
              >   father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
              >   receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
              >   and neither is revenge.  The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
              >   admission of guilt.
              >
              >   I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
              >   apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
              >   to the "wolf" at War's end.  Since the majority of the world
              >   continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
              >   during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
              >   any time in the near future.  This fact still shocks me almost
              >   as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
              >   Chris's site.
              >
              >   Eve Jankowicz
              >
              >
              >     Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
              >     Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
              >     under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on
              >     Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
              >     question was brought up.
              >
              >     Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been acknowledged
              >     for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it is
              >     a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
              >     even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
              >     residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
              >     assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.
              >
              >     Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
              >     and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
              >     What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
              >     Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as Stalin's
              >     son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
              >     writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
              >     Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
              >     revisionism, denial and whitewashing.
              >
              >     Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
              >     and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I doubt
              >     if it was shown by Moscow TV.
              >
              >     Chris, Toronto
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >     Chris,
              >
              >     When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
              >     in war?
              >
              >     We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
              >     till we are all blue in the face.  Money cannot compensate
              >     for anything, least of all the loss of  loved ones.
              >
              >     This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
              >     (bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
              >     families.  It's not a platform for airing our personal
              >     views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
              >     Elizabeth
              >
              >        From: "polish" <polish@...>
              >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >     Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
              >
              >     ____________________________________________________________________
              >
              >     Message: 8
              >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
              >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
              >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >     I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be
              able to
              >     provide this material to us.
              >     --
              >     Stefan
              >
              >     > Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
              >     > site.
              >
              >     >> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with
              The
              >     >> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
              >     >> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
              >     >> University of Toronto
              >     >> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41
              >
              >
              >     Message: 9
              >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
              >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
              >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >     If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and
              mutual
              >     support under our shared aims.  Yes, this is about recognition and it
              is
              >     about our loved ones and not just about money.
              >
              >     Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
              >     Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or
              simply
              >     worked to death in the remote USSR.  I believe that Chris' website
              "Poland's
              >     Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this
              story
              >     all too well.
              >     (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)
              >
              >     It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to
              feel a
              >     sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were
              denied
              >     for decades by the powers of the world.  Often, this question of
              >     "compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is
              required to
              >     achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move
              forward
              >     in greater harmony and understanding.
              >
              >     Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany
              was
              >     recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or
              their
              >     families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
              >     --
              >     Stefan
              >
              >     > Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
              >     >> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
              >     >> in war?
              >     >>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians
              to
              >     >>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII
              and
              >     >>> under Stalinism
              >
              >     Message: 10
              >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
              >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
              >     Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
              >
              >     I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"
              will be
              >     shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the
              Holocaust
              >     Commemoration.
              >
              >     Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few
              years
              >     time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more
              broadly
              >     recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
              >     Stefan
              >
              >     Message: 11
              >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
              >        From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...>
              >     Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia
              >
              >     Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
              >     support for our shared aims.
              >
              >     However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
              >     statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
              >     understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
              >     me and my family, and to many others.
              >
              >     Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
              >     compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
              >     acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
              >     brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
              >
              >     Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
              >     and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
              >     views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
              >     we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
              >     historical footnote?
              >
              >     If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
              >     return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
              >     uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
              >     killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
              >     this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
              >     train trip to History repeating iteslf.
              >
              >     Chris
              >
              >     Message: 12
              >        Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
              >        From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...>
              >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >     I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to
              keep
              >     alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a
              >     monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts
              to
              >     subjugate and obliterate Poland.
              >
              >     I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians
              are the
              >     same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not.
              The
              >     poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a
              legacy of
              >     betrayal and malice on her part.
              >
              >     They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can
              provide
              >     a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
              >     relatives suffered under the Russians.
              >
              >
              >
              >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
              >        From: rwtruksa@...
              >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >     Well said Stefan
              >     It is  about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of
              polish
              >     nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off
              the face
              >     of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7
              million of
              >     innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings
              and it
              >     is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted..  Perhaps it is
              not in
              >     the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
              >     Wanda
              >
              >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
              >     Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?
              >
              >     Dear John,
              >     It is one month exactly since you joined the group.  As a new member
              you may
              >     not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial
              discord or
              >     enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more
              evil.
              >
              >     To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments
              from
              >     members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.  I
              will
              >     not hesitate to do that if necessary.
              >
              >     Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few
              exchanges
              >     and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and
              recognise
              >     the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland
              that
              >     resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?
              >
              >     I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive
              debates,
              >     the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
              >     "projects" or initiatives.  One of these which is gathering strength
              is the
              >     screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around
              the
              >     world.  Another is the development of a database of deportee families
              and
              >     where they ended up after the war.  If you would like to assist with
              these
              >     or other programs, please let me know.
              >
              >     Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
              >     Stefan Wisniowski
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              >
              > [This message contained attachments]
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              >
              > Message: 4
              >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:06:54 +0100
              >    From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
              > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              > Dzien dobry Jurek (George),
              >
              > Who, or what is the Goyniewicz Foundation?
              > Where is it?
              >
              > To whom, in the Polish government,  do we write to lobby
              > for full restoration of this Foundation's funding?
              >
              > Elizabeth
              >
              >   ----- Original Message -----
              >   From: george krajewski
              >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              >   Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM
              >   Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
              >
              >
              >   Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
              >   For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have
              the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy
              are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send
              tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are
              being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,
              churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we
              have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still
              try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz
              Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,
              our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the
              Land of our ancestors.
              >   Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister
              are going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.
              >   Regards to everybody.
              >   George Krajewski (Jurek)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [This message contained attachments]
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              >
              > Message: 5
              >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:30:53 +1300
              >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
              > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >
              > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
              > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
              > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
              >
              > JR
              >
              > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
              >
              > > Dear all
              > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
              > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
              > >
              > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
              > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
              > >
              > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
              > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
              > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
              > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
              > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
              > > that needs to be told.
              > >
              > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
              > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
              > >
              > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
              > >
              > > Best wishes
              > >
              > > George
              > >
              > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
              > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
              > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
              > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
              > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
              > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
              > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
              > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
              > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
              > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
              > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
              > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
              > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
              > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
              > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
              > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
              > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
              > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
              > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
              > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
              > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
              > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
              > >
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              > >
              > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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              > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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              > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > John Roy-Wojciechowski
              > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
              > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
              > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
              > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              >
              > Message: 6
              >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:32:13 +1300
              >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
              > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
              >
              > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
              > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
              > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.
              >
              > JR
              >
              > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:
              >
              > > Dear all
              > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
              > > Jagna's email very encouraging.
              > >
              > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
              > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).
              > >
              > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
              > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
              > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
              > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
              > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
              > > that needs to be told.
              > >
              > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
              > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"
              > >
              > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.
              > >
              > > Best wishes
              > >
              > > George
              > >
              > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
              > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
              > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
              > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
              > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
              > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
              > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
              > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
              > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
              > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
              > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
              > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
              > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
              > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
              > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
              > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
              > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
              > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
              > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...
              > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008
              > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040
              > > Manchester UK M13 9PL
              > >
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              > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
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              >
              > John Roy-Wojciechowski
              > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
              > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
              > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
              > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              >
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            • Stefan Wisniowski
              Good idea, Elizabeth. Norman s wife is from the Kresy, so he has a personal interest in this topic (as well as being arguably the leading Western historian on
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 26, 2002
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                Good idea, Elizabeth.
                Norman's wife is from the Kresy, so he has a personal interest in this topic
                (as well as being arguably the leading Western historian on Poland's
                history). He also sent a message to the Sydney screening of A Forgotten
                Odyssey.

                His publicly listed e-mail is norman.davies@...
                --
                Stefan
                >
                > Just an idea : how about getting in touch with Prof. Norman Davies (Wolfson
                > College, Oxford) the guy who wrote "God's Playground, a History of Poland".
                > Couple of years ago I flew to London (from the Netherlands) to hear him
                > deliver a lecture on Poland at the Slavonic Institute, London.
                >
                > I've got a feeling the subject Sybiraki would interest him.
                >
                > Elizabeth
              • George Neisser
                Just to say I think this is a great idea. Norman Davies has written several books on Poland, and God s Playground... received some excellent reviews. George
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 28, 2002
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                  Just to say I think this is a great idea. Norman Davies has
                  written several books on Poland, and "God's Playground..." received
                  some excellent reviews.

                  George

                  [ text/html is unsupported, treating like TEXT/PLAIN ]

                  > <html><body>
                  >
                  >
                  > <tt>
                  > Helen,<BR>
                  > <BR>
                  > Just an idea :  how about getting in touch with<BR>
                  > Prof. Norman Davies (Wolfson College, Oxford)<BR>
                  > the guy who wrote "God's Playground, a History of Poland".<BR>
                  > Couple of years ago I flew to London (from the Netherlands)<BR>
                  > to hear him deliver a lecture on Poland at the Slavonic Institute,<BR>
                  > London.<BR>
                  > <BR>
                  > I've got a feeling the subject Sybiraki would interest him.<BR>
                  > <BR>
                  > Elizabeth<BR>
                  > <BR>
                  > ----- Original Message -----<BR>
                  > From: "H. MacDonald" <hel.mac@...><BR>
                  > To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com><BR>
                  > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 2:37 PM<BR>
                  > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110<BR>
                  > <BR>
                  > <BR>
                  > > Why a LOndon location for conference site?  It's easier to fly into<BR>
                  > > Manchester and Birmingham; also, there are more Poles in the central and<BR>
                  > > northern part of England and in Scotland.  And, it's cheaper.  Bradford<BR>
                  > > university has a professor who has done considerable research on the Poles<BR>
                  > > in Bradford.  There is another professor at Warwick University and a<BR>
                  > couple<BR>
                  > > in Scotland, all researching Poles in Britain.  I have traveled to<BR>
                  > > conferences in Poland and Holland to deliver elements of my research on<BR>
                  > the<BR>
                  > > topic of Sybiraki in Canada and have found great interest among academic;<BR>
                  > > many who knew only snippets of a story, but most who found the information<BR>
                  > > quite new.  There are other European, American, and even Australian<BR>
                  > > academics researching the topic.  If a conference was organized, would it<BR>
                  > be<BR>
                  > > the kind that would draw academics, who could share their research, with<BR>
                  > the<BR>
                  > > hope that proceedings would be published, or would it be a popular<BR>
                  > > conference?  I'm interested in this...<BR>
                  > > Helen.<BR>
                  > > p.s. does anyone else know of academics/students/researchers conducting<BR>
                  > > research on the wide theme of Sybiraki, relocated globally?<BR>
                  > > ----- Original Message -----<BR>
                  > > From: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com><BR>
                  > > To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com><BR>
                  > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:22 PM<BR>
                  > > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 110<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP<BR>
                  > > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition<BR>
                  > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > +    Websites:  <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia</a><BR>
                  > > > +                         <a href="http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com">http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com</a><BR>
                  > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.<BR>
                  > > > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<BR>
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                  > > > +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:<BR>
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                  > > > +    saying who you are and your interest in the group<BR>
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                  > > > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > There are 6 messages in this issue.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Topics in this digest:<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >       1. Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > >            From: jagna8@...<BR>
                  > > >       2. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > >            From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...><BR>
                  > > >       3. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > >            From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...><BR>
                  > > >       4. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > >            From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...><BR>
                  > > >       5. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...><BR>
                  > > >       6. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > >            From: "John Roy" <polish@...><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Message: 1<BR>
                  > > >    Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:29:25 EST<BR>
                  > > >    From: jagna8@...<BR>
                  > > > Subject: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?<BR>
                  > All<BR>
                  > > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...<BR>
                  > > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will<BR>
                  > > try<BR>
                  > > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -<BR>
                  > > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,<BR>
                  > > and<BR>
                  > > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should<BR>
                  > > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of<BR>
                  > > their<BR>
                  > > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again<BR>
                  > > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our<BR>
                  > > trip<BR>
                  > > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the<BR>
                  > > exhibitions<BR>
                  > > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important<BR>
                  > > MPs) -<BR>
                  > > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).<BR>
                  > > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political<BR>
                  > > 'compilations'<BR>
                  > > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian<BR>
                  > odyssey<BR>
                  > > to<BR>
                  > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,<BR>
                  > some<BR>
                  > > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start<BR>
                  > > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent<BR>
                  > > > conclusion.<BR>
                  > > > Cheers for now, Jagna<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > [This message contained attachments]<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Message: 2<BR>
                  > > >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:52 +0000 (GMT)<BR>
                  > > >    From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...><BR>
                  > > > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Dear all<BR>
                  > > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find<BR>
                  > > > Jagna's email very encouraging.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive<BR>
                  > > > and very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political<BR>
                  > > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British<BR>
                  > > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied<BR>
                  > > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent<BR>
                  > > sufferings<BR>
                  > > > and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story that needs<BR>
                  > > > to be told.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme<BR>
                  > > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Best wishes<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > George<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?<BR>
                  > > All<BR>
                  > > > > TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...<BR>
                  > > > > Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice -<BR>
                  > will<BR>
                  > > try<BR>
                  > > > > to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to<BR>
                  > find -<BR>
                  > > > > through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,<BR>
                  > patriotic,<BR>
                  > > and<BR>
                  > > > > caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we<BR>
                  > should<BR>
                  > > > > organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit<BR>
                  > of<BR>
                  > > their<BR>
                  > > > > efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again<BR>
                  > > > > (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during<BR>
                  > our<BR>
                  > > trip<BR>
                  > > > > to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the<BR>
                  > > exhibitions<BR>
                  > > > > at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important<BR>
                  > > MPs) -<BR>
                  > > > > so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).<BR>
                  > > > > Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political<BR>
                  > > 'compilations'<BR>
                  > > > > and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian<BR>
                  > > odyssey to<BR>
                  > > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,<BR>
                  > > some<BR>
                  > > > > apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start<BR>
                  > > > > talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent<BR>
                  > > > > conclusion.<BR>
                  > > > > Cheers for now, Jagna<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > --<BR>
                  > > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...<BR>
                  > > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008<BR>
                  > > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040<BR>
                  > > > Manchester UK M13 9PL<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Message: 3<BR>
                  > > >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:54:37 +1100<BR>
                  > > >    From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...><BR>
                  > > > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow<BR>
                  > > > For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have<BR>
                  > > the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy<BR>
                  > > are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we<BR>
                  > send<BR>
                  > > tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are<BR>
                  > > being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,<BR>
                  > > churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that<BR>
                  > we<BR>
                  > > have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still<BR>
                  > > try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz<BR>
                  > > Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,<BR>
                  > > our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the<BR>
                  > > Land of our ancestors.<BR>
                  > > > Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister<BR>
                  > are<BR>
                  > > going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.<BR>
                  > > > Regards to everybody.<BR>
                  > > > George Krajewski (Jurek)<BR>
                  > > >   ----- Original Message -----<BR>
                  > > >   From: Eve5J@...<BR>
                  > > >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM<BR>
                  > > >   Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   Dear Listers:<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.<BR>
                  > > >   In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed.  Shortly<BR>
                  > > >   I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and<BR>
                  > > >   the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda<BR>
                  > > >   posted a while ago for land compensation.  Although, as my<BR>
                  > > >   father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of<BR>
                  > > >   receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point<BR>
                  > > >   and neither is revenge.  The point is acknowledgment; therefore,<BR>
                  > > >   admission of guilt.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or<BR>
                  > > >   apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland<BR>
                  > > >   to the "wolf" at War's end.  Since the majority of the world<BR>
                  > > >   continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families<BR>
                  > > >   during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming<BR>
                  > > >   any time in the near future.  This fact still shocks me almost<BR>
                  > > >   as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on<BR>
                  > > >   Chris's site.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   Eve Jankowicz<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to<BR>
                  > > >     Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and<BR>
                  > > >     under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on<BR>
                  > > >     Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this<BR>
                  > > >     question was brought up.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been<BR>
                  > acknowledged<BR>
                  > > >     for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it<BR>
                  > is<BR>
                  > > >     a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received<BR>
                  > > >     even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were<BR>
                  > > >     residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I<BR>
                  > > >     assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes<BR>
                  > > >     and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.<BR>
                  > > >     What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of<BR>
                  > > >     Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as<BR>
                  > Stalin's<BR>
                  > > >     son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and<BR>
                  > > >     writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian<BR>
                  > > >     Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as<BR>
                  > > >     revisionism, denial and whitewashing.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground<BR>
                  > > >     and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I<BR>
                  > doubt<BR>
                  > > >     if it was shown by Moscow TV.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Chris, Toronto<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Chris,<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner<BR>
                  > > >     in war?<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     We can discuss the question of monetary compensation<BR>
                  > > >     till we are all blue in the face.  Money cannot compensate<BR>
                  > > >     for anything, least of all the loss of  loved ones.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     This website is all about research, remembering and recognising<BR>
                  > > >     (bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our<BR>
                  > > >     families.  It's not a platform for airing our personal<BR>
                  > > >     views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".<BR>
                  > > >     Elizabeth<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >        From: "polish" <polish@...><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     ____________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Message: 8<BR>
                  > > >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100<BR>
                  > > >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be<BR>
                  > > able to<BR>
                  > > >     provide this material to us.<BR>
                  > > >     --<BR>
                  > > >     Stefan<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     > Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web<BR>
                  > > >     > site.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     >> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with<BR>
                  > > The<BR>
                  > > >     >> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by<BR>
                  > > >     >> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,<BR>
                  > > >     >> University of Toronto<BR>
                  > > >     >> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Message: 9<BR>
                  > > >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100<BR>
                  > > >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and<BR>
                  > > mutual<BR>
                  > > >     support under our shared aims.  Yes, this is about recognition and<BR>
                  > it<BR>
                  > > is<BR>
                  > > >     about our loved ones and not just about money.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Many in our group have lost dear family members to the<BR>
                  > > >     Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn<BR>
                  > or<BR>
                  > > simply<BR>
                  > > >     worked to death in the remote USSR.  I believe that Chris' website<BR>
                  > > "Poland's<BR>
                  > > >     Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this<BR>
                  > > story<BR>
                  > > >     all too well.<BR>
                  > > >     (<a href="http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)">http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)</a><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not<BR>
                  > to<BR>
                  > > feel a<BR>
                  > > >     sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were<BR>
                  > > denied<BR>
                  > > >     for decades by the powers of the world.  Often, this question of<BR>
                  > > >     "compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is<BR>
                  > > required to<BR>
                  > > >     achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move<BR>
                  > > forward<BR>
                  > > >     in greater harmony and understanding.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany<BR>
                  > > was<BR>
                  > > >     recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or<BR>
                  > > their<BR>
                  > > >     families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.<BR>
                  > > >     --<BR>
                  > > >     Stefan<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     > Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.<BR>
                  > > >     >> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner<BR>
                  > > >     >> in war?<BR>
                  > > >     >>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the<BR>
                  > Soviets/Russians<BR>
                  > > to<BR>
                  > > >     >>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII<BR>
                  > > and<BR>
                  > > >     >>> under Stalinism<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Message: 10<BR>
                  > > >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100<BR>
                  > > >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"<BR>
                  > > will be<BR>
                  > > >     shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the<BR>
                  > > Holocaust<BR>
                  > > >     Commemoration.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few<BR>
                  > > years<BR>
                  > > >     time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more<BR>
                  > > broadly<BR>
                  > > >     recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.<BR>
                  > > >     Stefan<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Message: 11<BR>
                  > > >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000<BR>
                  > > >        From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual<BR>
                  > > >     support for our shared aims.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)<BR>
                  > > >     statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't<BR>
                  > > >     understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to<BR>
                  > > >     me and my family, and to many others.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing<BR>
                  > > >     compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with<BR>
                  > > >     acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it<BR>
                  > > >     brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"<BR>
                  > > >     and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our<BR>
                  > impersonal<BR>
                  > > >     views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall<BR>
                  > > >     we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere<BR>
                  > > >     historical footnote?<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about<BR>
                  > the<BR>
                  > > >     return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and<BR>
                  > > >     uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the<BR>
                  > > >     killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then<BR>
                  > > >     this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long<BR>
                  > > >     train trip to History repeating iteslf.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Chris<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Message: 12<BR>
                  > > >        Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800<BR>
                  > > >        From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is<BR>
                  > to<BR>
                  > > keep<BR>
                  > > >     alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was<BR>
                  > a<BR>
                  > > >     monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian<BR>
                  > attempts<BR>
                  > > to<BR>
                  > > >     subjugate and obliterate Poland.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians<BR>
                  > > are the<BR>
                  > > >     same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or<BR>
                  > not.<BR>
                  > > The<BR>
                  > > >     poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a<BR>
                  > > legacy of<BR>
                  > > >     betrayal and malice on her part.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can<BR>
                  > > provide<BR>
                  > > >     a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose<BR>
                  > > >     relatives suffered under the Russians.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST<BR>
                  > > >        From: rwtruksa@...<BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Well said Stefan<BR>
                  > > >     It is  about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of<BR>
                  > > polish<BR>
                  > > >     nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off<BR>
                  > > the face<BR>
                  > > >     of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7<BR>
                  > > million of<BR>
                  > > >     innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings<BR>
                  > > and it<BR>
                  > > >     is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted..  Perhaps it is<BR>
                  > > not in<BR>
                  > > >     the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.<BR>
                  > > >     Wanda<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >        From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...><BR>
                  > > >     Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Dear John,<BR>
                  > > >     It is one month exactly since you joined the group.  As a new member<BR>
                  > > you may<BR>
                  > > >     not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial<BR>
                  > > discord or<BR>
                  > > >     enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were<BR>
                  > more<BR>
                  > > evil.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments<BR>
                  > > from<BR>
                  > > >     members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.<BR>
                  > I<BR>
                  > > will<BR>
                  > > >     not hesitate to do that if necessary.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few<BR>
                  > > exchanges<BR>
                  > > >     and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and<BR>
                  > > recognise<BR>
                  > > >     the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland<BR>
                  > > that<BR>
                  > > >     resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive<BR>
                  > > debates,<BR>
                  > > >     the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific<BR>
                  > > >     "projects" or initiatives.  One of these which is gathering strength<BR>
                  > > is the<BR>
                  > > >     screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around<BR>
                  > > the<BR>
                  > > >     world.  Another is the development of a database of deportee<BR>
                  > families<BR>
                  > > and<BR>
                  > > >     where they ended up after the war.  If you would like to assist with<BR>
                  > > these<BR>
                  > > >     or other programs, please let me know.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >     Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,<BR>
                  > > >     Stefan Wisniowski<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > >   +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP<BR>
                  > > >   +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition<BR>
                  > > >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > >   +    Websites:  <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia</a><BR>
                  > > >   +                         <a href="http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com">http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com</a><BR>
                  > > >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > >   +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.<BR>
                  > > >   +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<BR>
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                  > > >   +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:<BR>
                  > > >   +    Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com<BR>
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                  > > >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > >   +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:<BR>
                  > > >   +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > >   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > [This message contained attachments]<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Message: 4<BR>
                  > > >    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:06:54 +0100<BR>
                  > > >    From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...><BR>
                  > > > Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Dzien dobry Jurek (George),<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Who, or what is the Goyniewicz Foundation?<BR>
                  > > > Where is it?<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > To whom, in the Polish government,  do we write to lobby<BR>
                  > > > for full restoration of this Foundation's funding?<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Elizabeth<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   ----- Original Message -----<BR>
                  > > >   From: george krajewski<BR>
                  > > >   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > >   Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM<BR>
                  > > >   Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > >   Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow<BR>
                  > > >   For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I<BR>
                  > have<BR>
                  > > the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight  I have a problem, we Sybiraczy<BR>
                  > > are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we<BR>
                  > send<BR>
                  > > tousend of dollars a year to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are<BR>
                  > > being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools,<BR>
                  > > churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that<BR>
                  > we<BR>
                  > > have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that 4.5 M Poles still<BR>
                  > > try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz<BR>
                  > > Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs,<BR>
                  > > our duty, we people from Kresy is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the<BR>
                  > > Land of our ancestors.<BR>
                  > > >   Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister<BR>
                  > > are going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.<BR>
                  > > >   Regards to everybody.<BR>
                  > > >   George Krajewski (Jurek)<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > [This message contained attachments]<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Message: 5<BR>
                  > > >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:30:53 +1300<BR>
                  > > >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...><BR>
                  > > > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for<BR>
                  > > > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING<BR>
                  > > > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > JR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > > Dear all<BR>
                  > > > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find<BR>
                  > > > > Jagna's email very encouraging.<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and<BR>
                  > > > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political<BR>
                  > > > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British<BR>
                  > > > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied<BR>
                  > > > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent<BR>
                  > > > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story<BR>
                  > > > > that needs to be told.<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme<BR>
                  > > > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > Best wishes<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > George<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust<BR>
                  > > > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,<BR>
                  > > > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to<BR>
                  > > > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find<BR>
                  > > > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,<BR>
                  > > > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe<BR>
                  > > > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such<BR>
                  > > > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland<BR>
                  > > > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On<BR>
                  > > > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly<BR>
                  > > > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to<BR>
                  > > > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss<BR>
                  > > > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent<BR>
                  > > > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong<BR>
                  > > > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to<BR>
                  > > > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,<BR>
                  > > > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they<BR>
                  > > > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach<BR>
                  > > > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > --<BR>
                  > > > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...<BR>
                  > > > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008<BR>
                  > > > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040<BR>
                  > > > > Manchester UK M13 9PL<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor<BR>
                  > > > > ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE<BR>
                  > > > > CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial<BR>
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                  > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~<BR>
                  > > > > -><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP<BR>
                  > > > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition<BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +    Websites:  <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia</a><BR>
                  > > > > +                         <a href="http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com">http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com</a><BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.<BR>
                  > > > > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:<BR>
                  > > > > +    Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > > > +    saying who you are and your interest in the group<BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:<BR>
                  > > > > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to<BR>
                  > > > > <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > John Roy-Wojciechowski<BR>
                  > > > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland<BR>
                  > > > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand<BR>
                  > > > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068<BR>
                  > > > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Message: 6<BR>
                  > > >    Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:32:13 +1300<BR>
                  > > >    From: "John Roy" <polish@...><BR>
                  > > > Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Do not despair.   I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for<BR>
                  > > > seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING<BR>
                  > > > FOR 200 TO ATTEND.<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > JR<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > > Dear all<BR>
                  > > > >        Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find<BR>
                  > > > > Jagna's email very encouraging.<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and<BR>
                  > > > > very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political<BR>
                  > > > > establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British<BR>
                  > > > > people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied<BR>
                  > > > > Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent<BR>
                  > > > > sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story<BR>
                  > > > > that needs to be told.<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme<BR>
                  > > > > could be "A Polish Odyssey"<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > Best wishes<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > George<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > > Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust<BR>
                  > > > > > event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,<BR>
                  > > > > > ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to<BR>
                  > > > > > organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find<BR>
                  > > > > > - through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,<BR>
                  > > > > > patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe<BR>
                  > > > > > one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such<BR>
                  > > > > > people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland<BR>
                  > > > > > 'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On<BR>
                  > > > > > Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly<BR>
                  > > > > > appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to<BR>
                  > > > > > the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss<BR>
                  > > > > > Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent<BR>
                  > > > > > about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong<BR>
                  > > > > > letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to<BR>
                  > > > > > MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,<BR>
                  > > > > > some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they<BR>
                  > > > > > will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach<BR>
                  > > > > > some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > --<BR>
                  > > > > George Neisser BSc, PhD           Email: George.Neisser@...<BR>
                  > > > > Manchester Computing              Tel:   +44 (0) 161 275 6008<BR>
                  > > > > University of Manchester          Fax:   +44 (0) 161 275 6040<BR>
                  > > > > Manchester UK M13 9PL<BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor<BR>
                  > > > > ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE<BR>
                  > > > > CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial<BR>
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                  > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~<BR>
                  > > > > -><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP<BR>
                  > > > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition<BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +    Websites:  <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia</a><BR>
                  > > > > +                         <a href="http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com">http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com</a><BR>
                  > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.<BR>
                  > > > > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<BR>
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                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to<BR>
                  > > > > <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > John Roy-Wojciechowski<BR>
                  > > > Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland<BR>
                  > > > 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand<BR>
                  > > > Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068<BR>
                  > > > e-mail polish@...  website www.polishheritage.co.nz<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > > ________________________________________________________________________<BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to<BR>
                  > <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > > ><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP<BR>
                  > > +   Research, Remembrance, Recognition<BR>
                  > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > +    Websites:  <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia</a><BR>
                  > > +                         <a href="http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com">http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com</a><BR>
                  > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.<BR>
                  > > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > +    To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:<BR>
                  > > +    Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                  > > +    saying who you are and your interest in the group<BR>
                  > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
                  > > +   To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:<BR>
                  > > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
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                  > ><BR>
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > <BR>
                  > </tt>
                  >
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                  --
                  George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
                  Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
                  University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
                  Manchester UK M13 9PL
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