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RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] OFF TOPIC - LAST POST ON SUBJECT was Re: Easter 1942 - 2013 March.

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  • Lenarda Szymczak
    Frances, you are correct. The first post was to share an Easter Tradition which was in existence before WWII and is still in existence within my Polish family
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1 5:09 PM
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      Frances, you are correct.

       

      The first post was to share an Easter Tradition which was in existence before WWII and is still in existence within my Polish family in the Ukraine and Poland today and many other families throughout the world. My mother may have lived in Godless Soviet Territory, but they still prayed and were very much Polish in secret, saying Mass in their homes and secreting the priest from house to house, so the Soviets would not catch him, as the penalty was death.  So the priest walked everywhere, staying overnight, hiding in one of the village houses.

       

      The second post was to show primarily, the coincidence of dates between 1942 and 2013 and my apologies, I became emotional, through research, seeing the pain, the death, the loss and the joy of being free, and shared my gratitude for the bravery of the Kresy people and their first steps of freedom, which were coincidental with Easter, in my personal way.   But, the main topic of the second post were the dates of Palm Sunday 1942 and Palm Sunday 2013, Easter date of 1942 and Easter date of 2013, with my calculations, if I am correct 4 days difference and 71 years anniversary, which was unusual as Easter is based on the phases of the moon, not like Christmass which is a set date. Which I noticed when looking for a solid  recorded date to put down as fact for the evacuations from Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi March-April 1942, as all the group were  also looking for to assist John and Stan.

       

      There was never the intention to turn  research, into personal private religious discussion, especially with a very fine line between historical religious events pertaining to events of evacuation or life in Stalin’s Paradise, to private personal members’ beliefs of today and discussion, criticism of personal belief or non belief on open post of KS or its members.  This is not KS research and off topic with many other forums available which cover personal specific religious topics.  It is understood that members and their families have come out of Kresy damaged and all have their individual reasons for their thinking, for their survival. KS research covers all areas, even this subject but in a general sense, with personal beliefs or non beliefs for survival written in testimonies, which are used as research, as Stefan pointed out, we cover all topics because it is part of who we are and where we come from, but this should be done with friendly respect and acceptance of individual members.

       

      At times, posts can be misinterpreted  and unless harmful, derogatory, or insults directed to a specific member,  which will be dealt with by MODERATOR, should be let go, as each of us reads the book differently.  Wisely knowing that each of us is different, individual, has gift of writing or being historian or great with numbers and others who fumble, in joy or sadness, express their feelings to a group which has a reputation for accepting, respecting, understanding that we are not alone and share the same if not worse pain, all coming from the same lands of the Kresy.  Bravely putting together the jig saw pieces of the big picture, knowing that every small bit of research is gratefully added to the larger history and we are accepted for what we are.

       

      No offence was intended and no offence taken, understanding that freedom (something to be treasured and cherished) also means free speech to express, to share and as I was free to share, so Konrad was also free to share. I accept and respect him, he did not target me specifically, only expressed his opinion freely and the group were free to express their thoughts, nicely with no malice.

       

      I was overwhelmed with the support given on my behalf, embarrassed as my name did get mentioned several times, this was truly overwhelming, but please remember I am most happy to assist, staying in the background, finding material for research, helping members, greeting them to a wonderful family, which has a hic cup (disagreement) now and then, which is normal and my actions are nothing special, as many other members do more for KS group.  

       

      I think that I have been here long enough and made enough mistakes, to see what has happened and accept the consequences and this should have been seen by group, I do appreciate your support, but, we as a group, a Kresy people, were only having difference of opinion, misunderstanding and should now let the topic go, because all this is definitely OFF TOPIC and as a group, get back to the main purpose to research the fate of the Kresy people in the Borderlands.  (Think of how this looks to outsiders, seeing this internal bickering within group, it makes me cringe – how are they going to trust us for research).

       

      What is sad, is that the group sidetracked from research to petty hoo hah and this is below the values and standards of group, wasting valuable KS computer space and time, instead of being organised, researching in a friendly way, as pointed out by Stefan, assisting each other and putting up historical facts, with a heart, like no other known groups, we have a reputation to protect and this welcomes new people to the group with our warmth and kindness.

       

      How much work did Alexandra, Anna and Krystyna do, to provide us with more photos and historical facts, yet this was overlooked because group was busy having a senseless debate.  This is very sad.  Please let’s get back to the purpose of KS.

       

      It is a fact that the first arrivals at Pahlevi 1942 were around Easter and this was used as a definite factual date and I posted the moon chart for Palm Sunday to group dating from 1850 to 2249 to assist with ascertaining dates of arrival.

       

      The two posts I put to group, were to 1. Share tradition, like we share recipes and 2. The coincidence of dates between 2013 and 1942.  Not to start a religious or other debate.

       

      At a guess, Christmas and Easter are very sensitive, emotional times for group and each feels the emotion in a different individual way.  We should be aware of this, accepting, respecting members, knowing they are not alone in their suffering.

       

      Please as requested by Stefan, make this the last word, there really should have been no need for all this and please, let us get back to what we do best, RESEARCH.

       

      Anna Pacewicz, Alexandra and Krystyna, wonderful work done and a huge asset to KSVM, thank you.

       

      Warmest regards,

      Lenarda, Australia

       

       

      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frances
      Sent: Tuesday, 02 April, 2013 8:46 AM
      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Easter 1942 - 2013 March.

       

       


      Lenarda, I think you will find this discussion started with your first Easter greetings post on March 30, then your second one on March 31.

      Frances

      --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Lenarda Szymczak" <szymczak01@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Martin and Witek, this is an OFF TOPIC discussion and would be more fruitfully discussed personally off-line with private email. see previous Post where Stefan put his Moderator hat on.
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      > The original discussion started with a coincidence in dates between Easter 1942 and a 4 days difference 71 years ago to Easter 2013.
      >
      > Warmest regards,
      >
      > Lenarda, Australia
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      > From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Witold J Lukaszewski
      > Sent: Tuesday, 02 April, 2013 4:05 AM
      > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Easter 1942 - 2013 March.
      >
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      > Martin,
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      > How would you reconcile man's free will, which we profess that he has, with God's repeated interventions to correct the mess men so often creates for themselves? Having given us free will, should it be God's responsibility to make us always safe and happy?
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      > Witek
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      > On Apr 1, 2013, at 3:35 AM, martin stepek wrote:
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      > Iâ•˙m not a believer either but I understand two things about religion and this groupâ•˙s work:
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      > a) some members of this group are religious and find it very natural to express these beliefs when exploring such emotional issues as we discuss in this group. There is a big difference between expressing your religious belief including gratitude to God, and ╲instruction╡, proselytizing or evangelising. I would think it very strange that someone who believes that God helped their family during the years in the USSR, would NOT include this as part of their messages in this group.
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      > b) religion and freedom of religious belief are relevant themes in the work of this group, because many of those deported to the USSR clung to their faith as a way of surviving; and because public expression of such beliefs were forbidden in the USSR, therefore the public celebration of mass or similar Orthodox or Jewish services are part of the wider sense of freedom on arrival in Persia.
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      > My father became cynical about God when he was in the labour camp but reverted to his Catholic roots after the war, probably encouraged by my very Catholic Scottish mother. I think Dadâ•˙s Catholicism was as much social and political as religious or philosophical.
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      > As someone who doesnâ•˙t believe in God, I constantly come back to the question for believers as to how they can believe in an omnipotent God who allowed the deportations, the mass deaths, the Holocaust etc to happen when he could have intervened; and an omniscient God who could foresee all this way before it occurred and did nothing. Yet believers consistently blame the US and UK governments for similar passivity in the face of horror. As my parents and priests used to say ╲the Lord works in mysterious ways╡, an answer I find unacceptable and more like an evasion than the more honest reply ╲I donâ•˙t know.╡
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      > I donâ•˙t write this as a criticism but hopefully as a relevant and fascinating part of the work of this group, namely the part played by belief and non-belief in the odyssey, and the faith or lack of it of the children and grandchildren of the victims
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      > Warm Regards
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      > Martin Stepek
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      > Author â•˙For There is Hopeâ•˙
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      > ╲Should be on every table where Poland is discussed and the brave dead are remembered.╡ Neal Ascherson author of ╢The Struggles for Polandâ•˙
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      > Sent from Windows Mail
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