Ethnicity vs. citizenship
- View SourceKresy Wschodnie language is not pure, it is "dialectky mieszane".Dialect MapPolish dialects are divided into two groups
History of Polish dialect dates back to tribal clusters przedpiastowskich - Pomeranians ( Pomerania ), Polan ( Greater ), Vistulans ( Lesser Poland ), Masovians ( Mazovia ) and SLEZAN ( Silesia
- land (wschodniolechicką) - Wielkopolska , Malopolska , Silesia , Mazovia
- Pomeranian (środkowolechicką), often regarded as a separate language - Kaszuba
Dialects used outside of the current Polish borders in the Eastern Borderlands, collectively called borderland Polish language :
----- Original Message -----From: Lenarda SzymczakSent: Monday, January 28, 2013 10:38 PMSubject: RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
- północnokresowy dialect - a dialect that occurs in Lithuania and Belarus , has identified the dialect Mazowieckie are visible influence of the Belarusian language and a few of the Lithuanian
- południowokresowy dialect - a dialect present in Ukraine , has identified the Lesser dialect, characterized by the influence of the Ukrainian language
Because of the isolation of the colonies, borderlands, Kresy, our language and culture stayed pure, in fact archaeologist have refered to the Polish we speak as the original pure Polish. Many people would comment on my Polish and asked where I learned it and the reply is from my mother, who spoke the Kings Polish or otherwise known as High Polish. (i.e. Kings English same explanation)
Poland before the war was very mixed and now after the war is mixed even more and was corrupted by Soviet control and Soviet run curriculum in schools, until Poland gained its independence, the damage has been done and they will start to show interest in all things old again.
Being isolated, we had no choice and no one to corrupt the language. It is a good thing. Be proud to be a dinasour and an original.
By the way, the teasing at school about Polish name, I got that too in Australia back in 1950-1960 and was the butt of all jokes, it taught you to be tough and walk alone.
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zenon Kuzik
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January, 2013 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
What a great reply - thank you! Stanislaw from Moscow's contribution certainly gave food for thought as well.
Another aspect that "distances" me from modern Poland is that I have come across recent immigrants from that country who are not at all interested in connecting with the older Poles of my parents' generation. They seem to regard them as foreigners! Anyhow, I was heartened when a man in Wroclaw, whose family was originally from Volhynia, said that my father spoke much better Polish than most people in present-day Poland. We multi-ethnics from the former Eastern Poland are the true heirs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. What a shame that the Lithuanian lady referred to by Dan Ford in his recent post has such a narrow (blinkered?) view of the past.
Across the Ditch from Sydney
Your ethnicity is that glorious cocktail below!
And you know, when we look around the world, so many of us are a cocktail, genetically and historically (as lands changed hands and cultures were often imposed)
The Polish bit is a primal thing (my interpretation – not at all historic I am afraid)
You are not an orphan, you live in a place of security, freedom, diversity – enjoy!
And enjoy your wonderful ethnic roots – at every level you can.
I loved Stan from Moscow narrowing it down to human, heartfelt essence yesterday – and he is always so careful to be factual about historical events.
I love Russia therefore I am Russian (not exactly your words Stan but the meaning)
Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:31:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
Your well-crafted contribution struck a chord with me. Although born and bred in New Zealand, and proud to be a Kiwi first and foremost, I start to feel a bit different when people over here say something to me along the lines of, "you have an unusual name" or "what nationality are you?", etc. I tell such folk that I have Polish ancestry - but that is a simplification. Both my parents and their families, for generations, were from Ziemia Lwowska, and they/we NEVER regarded that as part of some so-called Kresy. Our blood line is probably more Ruthenian (an historic term I prefer to the more modern "Ukrainian"), than anything else, and, as far as I can determine, we're a mixture of Ruthenian, Polish, Cossack, Russian, Tartar, German, Irish, Scottish and God knows what else. I "feel" more Polish than Ruthenian/Ukrainian - I was brought up as Polish (speaking Polish before becoming fluent in English), and this upsets relatives who are nationalistic Ukrainians!
I have been to modern-day Poland, and felt little affinity with it. The language there is different from the Polish spoken by my parents, and, more importantly, the country no longer includes the Lwow region. I have also visited what is now called "Western Ukraine" and that has little in common with the land of my parents in its language, culture and pre-WW2 ethnic make-up. The Poland of before September 1939 - the Poland of my background - disappeared forever, thanks to Stalin, Hitler and Stalin's willing accomplices, Churchill and Roosevelt. I almost think of myself as an orphan - because I can't relate to the present, only to the past, as far as my background is concerned. Maybe that's why I'm so happy to be a Kiwi - living in Godzone. So, what is my ethnicity?
All good wishes,
- View SourceAkcja Wisla uprooted ALL Greek Catholics, not just Lemkos.----- Original Message -----From: Zenon KuzikSent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54 AMSubject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenshipDear Basia,Point taken about language being organic, but the man in Wroclaw was quite adamant that Polish as spoken in present-day Poland has been bastardised: his subjective opinion.I think that if the Lithuanian lady had a painful experience, she probably allowed that to cloud her judgment regarding the past: subjective emotion distorting objective facts/reality. I am not necessarily condemning her because of this, as we can all be guilty of doing the same - the present writer included!You mentioned the Bieszczady region and the ethnic cleansing that took place there. This was part of what is known as Akcja Wisla which uprooted Lemkos and other Ruthenians/Ukrainians from their ancestral lands. Remember, of course, that this took place during the Communist era, at the behest of Moscow.Interestingly, I knew some Lemko folk who were victims of this tragedy. Yet they did not become anti-Polish as a result. They were aware of the circumstances behind their painful experience and were very friendly towards the Poles they came across in their new land of Australia, and were happy to speak in (non-bastardised!) Polish. I think they could have taught that Lithuanian lady a thing or two! By the way, as those native to Bieszczady were mostly Greek Catholics, and not Orthodox, it would seem more likely that the service you witnessed was led by GC and RC clergy.Your contributions are much appreciated.Zenon KuzikNew Zealand
From: Basia <basia@...>
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013 9:10 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenshipDear ZenonLanguage is very "organic" it changes! There are many factors which affect that.In my humble opinion, it is not that language is/was better, just different, evolved,and many factors affect that.Just consider the variants in English around the world.That is a fact, and we tend to cling to what is familiar to us.That too is understandable.The difference in language is significantly noticeable when I speak to younger generation Poles (I am mother in law to a gorgeous "real" Pole, 10 years out of Poland).I speak very reasonable Polish (apparently) and I do hear the "difference" in the younger generation.As for the lady from LithuaniaHer experience is obviously painful, her memories are based on her personal experiences and stories.This why I embrace, to the best of my ability (not always successfully) an openness to learn about/from other cultures before forming cautious opinions.I was in the Bieszczady region of Poland a few years ago, I don't exactly know the facts between the changing borders, but I was, for the first time, seeing evidence of ethnic cleansing, by Poles, which caused me terrible pain.There was an extraordinary process of reconciliation happening when I was (purely by fluke) there. A marvellous service, in a church rebuilt from rubble, officiated at by Roman Catholic and Orthodox priests (bishops or even higher I think) One of the most moving days in my life.It filled me with hope for the human race.Basia Zielinska (Sydney)From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:16:19 -0800 (PST)
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenshipDear Basia,What a great reply - thank you! Stanislaw from Moscow's contribution certainly gave food for thought as well.Another aspect that "distances" me from modern Poland is that I have come across recent immigrants from that country who are not at all interested in connecting with the older Poles of my parents' generation. They seem to regard them as foreigners! Anyhow, I was heartened when a man in Wroclaw, whose family was originally from Volhynia, said that my father spoke much better Polish than most people in present-day Poland. We multi-ethnics from the former Eastern Poland are the true heirs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. What a shame that the Lithuanian lady referred to by Dan Ford in his recent post has such a narrow (blinkered?) view of the past.Gratefully,Zenon KuzikAcross the Ditch from Sydney