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Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Polish prison ers of war. October 1940 - June 1941. Documen ts ¹ 125 - ¹ 157.

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  • Mark
    Interesting Rys. Thanks. Did your grnadfather participate in the Bolshevik war? Mark T. Canada ________________________________ From: ryszardsys
    Message 1 of 53 , Dec 31, 2012
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      Interesting Rys. Thanks.
      Did your grnadfather participate in the Bolshevik war?
       
      Mark T.
      Canada
      From: ryszardsys <ryszardsys@...>
      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:44:55 AM
      Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Polish prisoners of war. October 1940 - June 1941. Documents ¹ 125 - ¹ 157.
       
      Lenarda,

      My Grandfather was one of those building the airfield at Ponoj, Murmansk.

      As an officer, he always maintained that he was not shipped to Katyn because he was interned in Lithuania in 1939 and more importantly, registered with the Red Cross, therefore, in his mind at least, there was an international record of his existence and could not therefore be killed.

      According to my dad, the first they knew he was still alive was when they received a telegram from him at their camp in Krasnojarsk saying "Meet me in Tachischevo. I send 500 roubles for the journey" (in Russian). At the same time, my grandad travelled past his home on the way to Murmansk (by train) and saw that his house had been destroyed and he thought his family had been killed.

      It seems that it was only at the time of amnesty that they informed everyone of each others existence. So there must have been some linking records.

      Rys
      UK

      --- In mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com, "LenardaSzymczak" <szymczak01@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi group, this can be translated from Russian to English, do not know
      > exactly what it is, but looks important, numbers, names and Katyn? Letters
      > from Beria.
      >
      > Lenarda, Australia
      >
      >
      >
      > Collection of documents. Part 4. Polish prisoners of war. October 1940 -
      > January 1943. Documents ¹ 125 - ¹ 157. Library. Researchers Katyn case.
      > Information from the website -
      > http://www.katyn-books.ru/archive/1940_2000/19402000.html # 1doc.
      >
      >
      >
      > Collection of documents. Part 4.
      >
      > Polish prisoners of war. October 1940 - June 1941. Documents ¹ 125 - ¹ 157.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > <http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CEg
      > QFjADOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Favkrasn.ru%2Farticle-855.html&ei=KcTfUIvzNOzwmAWB_
      > YHYDg&usg=AFQjCNHn0NvXg-nIfgDYnbHpsOAoG1MbtA&bvm=bv.1355325884,bs.1,d.dGI&ca
      > d=rja> Ñáîðíèê äîêóìåíòîâ. ×àñòü 4. Ïîëüñêèå âîåííîïëåííûå ...
      >
      >
      > avkrasn.ru/article-855.html - Translate this page
      >
      > 22 ìàð 2012 – Ïðàâèëüíî Íîâîãðàä Âîëûíñêèé. .... Ñòàíèñëàâ ßíîâè÷, Âîë÷àöêèé
      > Ïàâåë Âèêåíòüåâè÷, Õìåëåâñêèé Çäèñëàâ Çäèñëàâîâè÷, Ìèöêåâè÷ ..... ãåíåðàë,
      > çàêîí÷èë Àêàäåìèþ Ãëàâøòàáà ÂÏ, â 1937—39 ãã. êîìàíäîâàë 4-ì ...
      >
      >
      >
      > http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://avkrasn.ru/art
      > icle-855.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%259D%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25
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      > 8B%25D0%25BD%25D1%2581%25D0%25BA%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B9,%25D0%25A5%25D0%25BC%25
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      >

    • Stefan Jackowski
        Dear Mark,   Bravo  ..  what a remarkable find.   Maybe the definitive book on Katyn has yet to be written ..      Stefan J      
      Message 53 of 53 , Jan 5, 2013
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        Dear Mark,
         
        Bravo  ..  what a remarkable find.
         
        Maybe the definitive book on Katyn has yet to be written .. 
         
         
        Stefan J
         
         
         

        From: Mark and Oyun <mark_oyun@...>
        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 10:31:33 AM
        Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Polish prisoners of war. October 1940 - June 1941. Documents ¹ 125 - ¹ 157.
         
        Dear Stefan,
         
        So mystery solved. 448 it is but... there were two separate periods of transportation.
        The 395 were sent at the time of/after the murders. They were directly spared from execution as they were happening. The first transport was 29 March 1940, a few days after Beria recommended shooting the Poles, but just before the killings actually started.
         
        From each camp – transported:
        Kozielsk – 24
        Starobielsk – 22
        Ostaszkov – 7
        -----------------
        Total: 53
         
        Most of these were transported to Yukhnovsky camp.
         
        The full list of names is in a memo [No.17] from Sudoplatov, a Major in Section Five [Counterintelligence] of State Security.
         
        Best regards, Mark Ostrowski

         
         
        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Jackowski wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi Dan,
        >
        > Yes, as you mention, the Zadowny book was one of earliest books on Katyn. It was published in 1962, and so had the
        > advantage of many eyewitness POW accounts (the publisher claims 150) that were relatively fresh memories. Of course,
        > it had the huge disadvantage of not have access to most of the Soviet records, certainly not those that were released
        > in 1991, and subsequently.   .. History is indeed a work in progress!
        >
        > Best,
        >
        > Stefan J
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Dan Ford
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:49:01 AM
        > Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Polish prisoners of war. October 1940 - June 1941. Documents ¹ 125 - ¹ 157.
        >
        >
        >  
        > Do understand that Mr Zadowny's book was very early, perhaps the first
        > to delve into the massacres at any length. History works by accretion
        > and by questioning what was assumed. You really can't compare "Death in
        > the Forest" with "Katyn--Crime Without Punishment" which represents huge
        > advances in what is known.
        >
        > There is also a huge difference in what historians know and what society
        > at large know. Perhaps because I came to history late (I started out by
        > making stuff up--I was a novelist) this always surprises me. "Nazi death
        > camps" and indeed even the word "Nazi" as a substitute for "German" is a
        > good example. Then there's "Wehrmacht" which almost everyone uses to
        > mean "Germany army," when the army was the Heer, one of three military
        > forces, the others being the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe. Those are
        > just words, but the same is true of events. Well -- take the Polish
        > cavalry charging German tanks! Again, every historian (in the field)
        > knows it's not true, but you will never get it out of the media and the
        > common knowledge.
        >
        > Historians joke (rather sourly) that American college students know two
        > things about World War Two: that the Americans used an atomic bomb on
        > Hiroshima, and that the Japanese in retaliation bombed Pearl Harbor.
        > It's only a slight exaggeration. And those college students go on to be
        > the newspaper and television writers and editors of the future. -- Dan
        > Ford US
        >
        > On 1/3/2013 2:27 AM, Stefan Jackowski wrote:
        > > I had a closer look at Zadownys' book, "Death in the Forrest", and can
        > > see that his discrepency in the numbers of Katyn
        > > survivors in 1940 vs. 1941 is clearly acknowledged.
        >
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