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Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: 3rd Armoured Brigade

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  • Richard Kozlowski
    Mark (and Lenarda), thanks so much for your information. Truth is, I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade...I am trying to decipher the back of a
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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      Mark (and Lenarda), thanks so much for your information.  Truth is, I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade...I am trying to decipher the back of a photo given to my dad by a friend.  Until recently I had no idea that my dad participated in the '39 campaign as a Polish soldier; I thought he was captured and sent to Siberia as a civilian.  

      I am attaching the back of the photo--you can see the "3 B.P.".  I will look through your information in detail to see if i can piece something together.  Thanks again!  Rich, Ohio, USA





      On Nov 18, 2012, at 12:37 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:

       

      Dear Rich,

      Excuse my stupid question , but do you mean the 3rd Armoured Battalion... or do you in fact mean Brigade?
      http://derela.republika.pl/brigades.htm#mot_bde

      The 10th Cavalry Brigade was armoured, [Col. Maczek]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Motorized_Cavalry_Brigade_(Poland)

      ...and there was the Warsaw Armoured Motorized Brigade
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Armoured_Motorized_Brigade
      [Col. Rowecki] which was only part ready in 1939.

      Were there three brigades?

      The 3rd Battalion is here (in Polish)
      http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny

      Regards, Mark

      --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
      >
      > Group,
      >
      > Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.
      >
      > Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA
      >



    • Dan Ford
      Think of it this way: The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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        Think of it this way:

        The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads
        make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
        company, so a company is about 150 men.

        Four companies in a battalion, along with headquarters staff and maybe a
        signals and a weapons platoon. So a battalion might be 600-1,000 men.

        Four battalions plus headquarters, artillery, and other support units
        in a brigade or regiment (they are about the same thing). So a brigade
        might be 4000-5000 men.

        Four brigades or regiments to a division, plus "div arty" and other
        support units, to a total of 10,000-15,000 men. You might for example
        have three infantry brigades/regiments and one armored brigade in a
        division. Or an armored brigade might be more or less independent,
        operating in support of one or more different infantry divisions at
        different times. Thus the British 7th Armoured Brigade "Desert Rats"
        went from North Africa to reinforce Burma in 1942.

        This varies of course from army to army and from war to war. During WW2,
        divisions were organized into corps, and corps were organized into
        armies, and armies were organized into army groups, until one was
        dealing with millions of men. Today, even the division is going out of
        fashion. The US Army is moving toward an organization in which brigades
        are the largest operating unit.

        - Dan Ford US

        On 11/18/2012 9:26 AM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:
        > I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade
      • Mark and Oyun
        Dear Rich and Dan, I don t think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is batalion . Oh, and your photo attachment didn t seem
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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          Dear Rich and Dan,

          I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
          Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.

          By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.

          Best regards, Mark
        • Richard Kozlowski
          Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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            Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much.  Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:





            On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:

             

            Dear Rich and Dan,

            I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
            Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.

            By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.

            Best regards, Mark


          • ed Bator
            Dan, you gave the best explanation of the units organization. Many times it dependa on the mission  of particular unit, be it a team, squad, platoon,
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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              Dan, you gave the best explanation of the "units" organization.
              Many times it dependa on the "mission"  of particular unit, be it a team, squad, platoon, company or higher
              units like battalion, regiment/brigade, division, corp and finaly army.
              It also depends on combination of branches of the army as infantry, artilery, armor, signal, engeneer/saper,
              transportation, supply, medical etc., so in some cases there may be attachement of other branches to
              an infantry brigade that are not normaly a part of that brigade.  It all depends on the "MIssion".
               
              Good work Dan.  Stay with it.
               
              Ed (s.j.) USA
               
               
               

              From: Dan Ford <cub06h@...>
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:58 AM
              Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: 3rd Armoured Brigade

              Think of it this way:

              The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads
              make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
              company, so a company is about 150 men.

              Four companies in a battalion, along with headquarters staff and maybe a
              signals and a weapons platoon. So a battalion might be 600-1,000 men.

              Four battalions plus headquarters, artillery, and other support units 
              in a brigade or regiment (they are about the same thing). So a brigade
              might be 4000-5000 men.

              Four brigades or regiments to a division, plus "div arty" and other
              support units, to a total of 10,000-15,000 men. You might for example
              have three infantry brigades/regiments and one armored brigade in a
              division. Or an armored brigade might be more or less independent,
              operating in support of one or more different infantry divisions at
              different times. Thus the British 7th Armoured Brigade "Desert Rats"
              went from North Africa to reinforce Burma in 1942.

              This varies of course from army to army and from war to war. During WW2,
              divisions were organized into corps, and corps were organized into
              armies, and armies were organized into army groups, until one was
              dealing with millions of men. Today, even the division is going out of
              fashion. The US Army is moving toward an organization in which brigades
              are the largest operating unit.

              - Dan Ford US

              On 11/18/2012 9:26 AM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:
              > I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade



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            • Basia
              Dan This is illuminating! Thank you Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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                Dan
                This is illuminating!
                Thank you

                Basia Zielinska (Sydney)







                On 18/11/12 4:58 AM, "Dan Ford" <cub06h@...> wrote:

                >Think of it this way:
                >
                >The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads
                >make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
                >company, so a company is about 150 men.
                >
                >Four companies in a battalion, along with headquarters staff and maybe a
                >signals and a weapons platoon. So a battalion might be 600-1,000 men.
                >
                >Four battalions plus headquarters, artillery, and other support units
                >in a brigade or regiment (they are about the same thing). So a brigade
                >might be 4000-5000 men.
                >
                >Four brigades or regiments to a division, plus "div arty" and other
                >support units, to a total of 10,000-15,000 men. You might for example
                >have three infantry brigades/regiments and one armored brigade in a
                >division. Or an armored brigade might be more or less independent,
                >operating in support of one or more different infantry divisions at
                >different times. Thus the British 7th Armoured Brigade "Desert Rats"
                >went from North Africa to reinforce Burma in 1942.
                >
                >This varies of course from army to army and from war to war. During WW2,
                >divisions were organized into corps, and corps were organized into
                >armies, and armies were organized into army groups, until one was
                >dealing with millions of men. Today, even the division is going out of
                >fashion. The US Army is moving toward an organization in which brigades
                >are the largest operating unit.
                >
                >- Dan Ford US
                >
                >On 11/18/2012 9:26 AM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:
                >> I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
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                >* PLEASE PAY YOUR ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE & MAKE A DONATION:
                >http://tinyurl.com/ks-contribute
                >____________________________________________________________
                >
                >* Visit our merchandise & Bookstore: http://tinyurl.com/KS-Store
                >_______________________________________________________________________
                >
                >KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP & FOUNDATION
                >
                >"Research, Remembrance and Recognition of Polish citizens fighting for
                >freedom in the Eastern Borderlands and in Exile during World War 2."
                >_______________________________________________________________________
                >OUR WEBSITES
                >
                >* Discussion group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
                >* Virtual Museum http://www.kresy-siberia.org/
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                >* Memorial gallery http://kresy-siberia.com/gallery
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                >* To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
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                >
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              • Mark and Oyun
                Dear Rich, OK, the mist clears... a little. It s not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We ve talked about these pictures before:
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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                  Dear Rich,

                  OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                  The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.

                  "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!

                  This needs a little more work!

                  Regards, Mark

                  --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                  >
                  > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                  >
                  > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                  >
                  > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                  > >
                  > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                  > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                  > >
                  > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                  > >
                  > > Best regards, Mark
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Richard Kozlowski
                  Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
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                    Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails.  That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign.  From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P.  Do you think that is unlikely?  Rich


                    On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:

                     

                    Dear Rich,

                    OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                    The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.

                    "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!

                    This needs a little more work!

                    Regards, Mark

                    --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                    >
                    > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                    >
                    > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                    >
                    > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                    > >
                    > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                    > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                    > >
                    > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                    > >
                    > > Best regards, Mark
                    > >
                    > >
                    >


                  • Mark and Oyun
                    Dear Rich, Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace active service with national service and you may have something. It would then read A souvenir of
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
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                      Dear Rich,

                      Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace "active service" with "national service" and you may have something. It would then read "A souvenir of our army national service"...czynna sluzba.
                      This may well mean they knew each other in Poland before the war... it would then give 2 options for 3BP... 3rd Infantry Battalion... but every regiment had a 3rd battalions so this would render it meaningless, and Poles usually talked about which regiment [Pulk] or Division [Dywizja] they were in... or it could be 3 Batalion Pancerny
                      http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny
                      which was formed in Warsaw. Could the word after 3BP, although rather squiggly, be Warszawa. It would make sense, especially since 3BP rings no bells with Anders and the 2nd Corps.
                      It could be the 3 Infantry Brigade, but this in unlikely as they did not use the P in Piechota for brigades. They were referred to as Rifle Brigades.. 3BS: 3 Brygada Strzelcow
                      The 3BPanc. [3 Armoured Brigade] was formed in 1935... so if he was 18ish between 1935 to 1938 this may be the time he did his national service.

                      This is my best guess. Regards, Mark.


                      --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P. Do you think that is unlikely? Rich
                      >
                      >
                      > On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                      >
                      > > Dear Rich,
                      > >
                      > > OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                      > > The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.
                      > >
                      > > "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!
                      > >
                      > > This needs a little more work!
                      > >
                      > > Regards, Mark
                      > >
                      > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                      > > >
                      > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                      > > >
                      > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                      > > > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Best regards, Mark
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Richard Kozlowski
                      Dear Mark, Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935. He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed driver as his experience when
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
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                      Dear Mark, 

                      Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935.  He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed "driver" as his experience when joining the 2nd Corps.  So I am thinking he was also a driver in some mechanized unit in the home army.  However, his documents list his active service as beginning on 11 11 1938.

                      Here is an early picture--let me know if you cannot see it (I cc'd your yahoo address).  Thanks!  Rich

                    • Mark and Oyun
                      Dear Rich, Got the photo but not much insignia to go on.Round top not square on his hat... I know this is significant, but it s too late to look it up now.
                      Message 11 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
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                        Dear Rich,

                        Got the photo but not much insignia to go on.Round top not square on his hat... I know this is significant, but it's too late to look it up now. "Driver" would seem right. The 3rd Armoured Battalion had a lot of wheeled tranport, and not that much armoured.Chances would be a truck driver.The batalion needed drivers for its transport vehicle, its personel carrying vehicles and also it ambulances:
                        Kolumna Samochodow Ciezarowych, Kolumna Samochodow Osobowych and Kolumna Samochodow Sanitarnych
                        http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny

                        Regards, Mark

                        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Mark,
                        >
                        > Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935. He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed "driver" as his experience when joining the 2nd Corps. So I am thinking he was also a driver in some mechanized unit in the home army. However, his documents list his active service as beginning on 11 11 1938.
                        >
                        > Here is an early picture--let me know if you cannot see it (I cc'd your yahoo address). Thanks! Rich
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Nov 19, 2012, at 8:28 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                        >
                        > > Dear Rich,
                        > >
                        > > Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace "active service" with "national service" and you may have something. It would then read "A souvenir of our army national service"...czynna sluzba.
                        > > This may well mean they knew each other in Poland before the war... it would then give 2 options for 3BP... 3rd Infantry Battalion... but every regiment had a 3rd battalions so this would render it meaningless, and Poles usually talked about which regiment [Pulk] or Division [Dywizja] they were in... or it could be 3 Batalion Pancerny
                        > > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny
                        > > which was formed in Warsaw. Could the word after 3BP, although rather squiggly, be Warszawa. It would make sense, especially since 3BP rings no bells with Anders and the 2nd Corps.
                        > > It could be the 3 Infantry Brigade, but this in unlikely as they did not use the P in Piechota for brigades. They were referred to as Rifle Brigades.. 3BS: 3 Brygada Strzelcow
                        > > The 3BPanc. [3 Armoured Brigade] was formed in 1935... so if he was 18ish between 1935 to 1938 this may be the time he did his national service.
                        > >
                        > > This is my best guess. Regards, Mark.
                        > >
                        > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P. Do you think that is unlikely? Rich
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > Dear Rich,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                        > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                        > > > > The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > This needs a little more work!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Regards, Mark
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                        > > > > > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Best regards, Mark
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • R52302
                        Excellent, Mark, thank you! I will review. Rich
                        Message 12 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
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                          Excellent, Mark, thank you!  I will review. Rich




                          On Nov 19, 2012, at 6:56 PM, "Mark and Oyun" <mark_oyun@...> wrote:

                           

                          Dear Rich,

                          Got the photo but not much insignia to go on.Round top not square on his hat... I know this is significant, but it's too late to look it up now. "Driver" would seem right. The 3rd Armoured Battalion had a lot of wheeled tranport, and not that much armoured.Chances would be a truck driver.The batalion needed drivers for its transport vehicle, its personel carrying vehicles and also it ambulances:
                          Kolumna Samochodow Ciezarowych, Kolumna Samochodow Osobowych and Kolumna Samochodow Sanitarnych
                          http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny

                          Regards, Mark

                          --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Mark,
                          >
                          > Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935. He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed "driver" as his experience when joining the 2nd Corps. So I am thinking he was also a driver in some mechanized unit in the home army. However, his documents list his active service as beginning on 11 11 1938.
                          >
                          > Here is an early picture--let me know if you cannot see it (I cc'd your yahoo address). Thanks! Rich
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Nov 19, 2012, at 8:28 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                          >
                          > > Dear Rich,
                          > >
                          > > Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace "active service" with "national service" and you may have something. It would then read "A souvenir of our army national service"...czynna sluzba.
                          > > This may well mean they knew each other in Poland before the war... it would then give 2 options for 3BP... 3rd Infantry Battalion... but every regiment had a 3rd battalions so this would render it meaningless, and Poles usually talked about which regiment [Pulk] or Division [Dywizja] they were in... or it could be 3 Batalion Pancerny
                          > > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny
                          > > which was formed in Warsaw. Could the word after 3BP, although rather squiggly, be Warszawa. It would make sense, especially since 3BP rings no bells with Anders and the 2nd Corps.
                          > > It could be the 3 Infantry Brigade, but this in unlikely as they did not use the P in Piechota for brigades. They were referred to as Rifle Brigades.. 3BS: 3 Brygada Strzelcow
                          > > The 3BPanc. [3 Armoured Brigade] was formed in 1935... so if he was 18ish between 1935 to 1938 this may be the time he did his national service.
                          > >
                          > > This is my best guess. Regards, Mark.
                          > >
                          > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P. Do you think that is unlikely? Rich
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > Dear Rich,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                          > > > > The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This needs a little more work!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Regards, Mark
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                          > > > > > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Best regards, Mark
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >

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