Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

3rd Armoured Brigade

Expand Messages
  • Richard Kozlowski
    Group, Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 17, 2012
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Group,

      Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.

      Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA
    • LenardaSzymczak
      Rich, my dad was in 8th Pulk, Calvary, captured 1939 and spent the rest of the war in Stalag 1-A. Lenarda, Australia From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 17, 2012
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment

        Rich, my dad was in 8th Pulk, Calvary, captured  1939 and spent the rest of the war in Stalag 1-A.

        Lenarda, Australia

         

        From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Kozlowski
        Sent: Sunday, 18 November, 2012 2:12 PM
        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] 3rd Armoured Brigade

         

         

        Group,

        Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.

        Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA

      • Richard Kozlowski
        Thank you, Lenarda. Do you know the connection between the 8th and the 3rd? By the way, although I receive every KS post, I don t have time to read all of
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 17, 2012
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you, Lenarda.  Do you know the connection between the 8th and the 3rd?

          By the way, although I receive every KS post, I don't have time to read all of them, with the exception of yours.  I echo the sentiment of many people on this message board--thank you so much for your dedication and commitment. 

          Rich, Ohio

          On Nov 17, 2012, at 10:11 PM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:

           

          Group,

          Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.

          Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA


        • LenardaSzymczak
          I do not know connection, but, even though I could not help, I wanted to let you know you were not alone. Lenarda, Australia From:
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 17, 2012
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment

            I do not know connection, but, even though I could not help, I wanted to let you know you were not alone.

            Lenarda, Australia

             

            From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Kozlowski
            Sent: Sunday, 18 November, 2012 2:39 PM
            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] 3rd Armoured Brigade

             

             

            Thank you, Lenarda.  Do you know the connection between the 8th and the 3rd?

             

            By the way, although I receive every KS post, I don't have time to read all of them, with the exception of yours.  I echo the sentiment of many people on this message board--thank you so much for your dedication and commitment. 

             

            Rich, Ohio

             

            On Nov 17, 2012, at 10:11 PM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:



             

            Group,

            Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.

            Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA

             

          • Richard Kozlowski
            Thank you, nor are you. Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 17, 2012
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Thank you, nor are you.

              Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA


              On Nov 17, 2012, at 11:13 PM, LenardaSzymczak wrote:

               

              I do not know connection, but, even though I could not help, I wanted to let you know you were not alone.

              Lenarda, Australia

               

              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Kozlowski
              Sent: Sunday, 18 November, 2012 2:39 PM
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] 3rd Armoured Brigade

               

               

              Thank you, Lenarda.  Do you know the connection between the 8th and the 3rd?

               

              By the way, although I receive every KS post, I don't have time to read all of them, with the exception of yours.  I echo the sentiment of many people on this message board--thank you so much for your dedication and commitment. 

               

              Rich, Ohio

               

              On Nov 17, 2012, at 10:11 PM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:



               

              Group,

              Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.

              Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA

               



            • LenardaSzymczak
              Hey Group, we are back on track with positive, after reading all your research and good comments, you make me smile, we as KS GROUP did not lower our standard,
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 17, 2012
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment

                Hey Group, we are back on track with positive, after reading all your research and good comments, you make me smile, we as KS GROUP did not lower our standard, nor our values. Well done.  We all went through the same Hell on Earth, many worse than others and we understand each other.  This is why KS EXISTS, using Stefan’s’ words. 

                 

                My compassion goes out to Stefan, he has a difficult personal journey to make, my prayers and I am sure those of KS Group are with you, Stefan and all your family,   on every step of your journey.  Thank you for bringing us all together.

                 

                Warmest regards,

                Lenarda, Australia

                 

                 

              • Mark and Oyun
                Dear Rich, Excuse my stupid question , but do you mean the 3rd Armoured Battalion... or do you in fact mean Brigade?
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 17, 2012
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment

                  Dear Rich,

                  Excuse my stupid question , but do you mean the 3rd Armoured Battalion... or do you in fact mean Brigade?
                  http://derela.republika.pl/brigades.htm#mot_bde

                  The 10th Cavalry Brigade was armoured, [Col. Maczek]
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Motorized_Cavalry_Brigade_(Poland)

                  ...and there was the Warsaw Armoured Motorized Brigade
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Armoured_Motorized_Brigade
                  [Col. Rowecki] which was only part ready in 1939.

                  Were there three brigades?

                  The 3rd Battalion is here (in Polish)
                  http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny

                  Regards, Mark

                  --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Group,
                  >
                  > Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.
                  >
                  > Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA
                  >

                • Richard Kozlowski
                  Mark (and Lenarda), thanks so much for your information. Truth is, I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade...I am trying to decipher the back of a
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mark (and Lenarda), thanks so much for your information.  Truth is, I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade...I am trying to decipher the back of a photo given to my dad by a friend.  Until recently I had no idea that my dad participated in the '39 campaign as a Polish soldier; I thought he was captured and sent to Siberia as a civilian.  

                    I am attaching the back of the photo--you can see the "3 B.P.".  I will look through your information in detail to see if i can piece something together.  Thanks again!  Rich, Ohio, USA





                    On Nov 18, 2012, at 12:37 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:

                     

                    Dear Rich,

                    Excuse my stupid question , but do you mean the 3rd Armoured Battalion... or do you in fact mean Brigade?
                    http://derela.republika.pl/brigades.htm#mot_bde

                    The 10th Cavalry Brigade was armoured, [Col. Maczek]
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Motorized_Cavalry_Brigade_(Poland)

                    ...and there was the Warsaw Armoured Motorized Brigade
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Armoured_Motorized_Brigade
                    [Col. Rowecki] which was only part ready in 1939.

                    Were there three brigades?

                    The 3rd Battalion is here (in Polish)
                    http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny

                    Regards, Mark

                    --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Group,
                    >
                    > Apologies if I have asked this question before, but does anyone have any information on the Polish 3rd Armoured Brigade that would have taken part in the 1939 campaign? Many thanks.
                    >
                    > Rich Kozlowski, Ohio, USA
                    >



                  • Dan Ford
                    Think of it this way: The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Think of it this way:

                      The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads
                      make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
                      company, so a company is about 150 men.

                      Four companies in a battalion, along with headquarters staff and maybe a
                      signals and a weapons platoon. So a battalion might be 600-1,000 men.

                      Four battalions plus headquarters, artillery, and other support units
                      in a brigade or regiment (they are about the same thing). So a brigade
                      might be 4000-5000 men.

                      Four brigades or regiments to a division, plus "div arty" and other
                      support units, to a total of 10,000-15,000 men. You might for example
                      have three infantry brigades/regiments and one armored brigade in a
                      division. Or an armored brigade might be more or less independent,
                      operating in support of one or more different infantry divisions at
                      different times. Thus the British 7th Armoured Brigade "Desert Rats"
                      went from North Africa to reinforce Burma in 1942.

                      This varies of course from army to army and from war to war. During WW2,
                      divisions were organized into corps, and corps were organized into
                      armies, and armies were organized into army groups, until one was
                      dealing with millions of men. Today, even the division is going out of
                      fashion. The US Army is moving toward an organization in which brigades
                      are the largest operating unit.

                      - Dan Ford US

                      On 11/18/2012 9:26 AM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:
                      > I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade
                    • Mark and Oyun
                      Dear Rich and Dan, I don t think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is batalion . Oh, and your photo attachment didn t seem
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Rich and Dan,

                        I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                        Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.

                        By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.

                        Best regards, Mark
                      • Richard Kozlowski
                        Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much.  Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:





                          On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:

                           

                          Dear Rich and Dan,

                          I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                          Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.

                          By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.

                          Best regards, Mark


                        • ed Bator
                          Dan, you gave the best explanation of the units organization. Many times it dependa on the mission  of particular unit, be it a team, squad, platoon,
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dan, you gave the best explanation of the "units" organization.
                            Many times it dependa on the "mission"  of particular unit, be it a team, squad, platoon, company or higher
                            units like battalion, regiment/brigade, division, corp and finaly army.
                            It also depends on combination of branches of the army as infantry, artilery, armor, signal, engeneer/saper,
                            transportation, supply, medical etc., so in some cases there may be attachement of other branches to
                            an infantry brigade that are not normaly a part of that brigade.  It all depends on the "MIssion".
                             
                            Good work Dan.  Stay with it.
                             
                            Ed (s.j.) USA
                             
                             
                             

                            From: Dan Ford <cub06h@...>
                            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:58 AM
                            Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: 3rd Armoured Brigade

                            Think of it this way:

                            The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads
                            make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
                            company, so a company is about 150 men.

                            Four companies in a battalion, along with headquarters staff and maybe a
                            signals and a weapons platoon. So a battalion might be 600-1,000 men.

                            Four battalions plus headquarters, artillery, and other support units 
                            in a brigade or regiment (they are about the same thing). So a brigade
                            might be 4000-5000 men.

                            Four brigades or regiments to a division, plus "div arty" and other
                            support units, to a total of 10,000-15,000 men. You might for example
                            have three infantry brigades/regiments and one armored brigade in a
                            division. Or an armored brigade might be more or less independent,
                            operating in support of one or more different infantry divisions at
                            different times. Thus the British 7th Armoured Brigade "Desert Rats"
                            went from North Africa to reinforce Burma in 1942.

                            This varies of course from army to army and from war to war. During WW2,
                            divisions were organized into corps, and corps were organized into
                            armies, and armies were organized into army groups, until one was
                            dealing with millions of men. Today, even the division is going out of
                            fashion. The US Army is moving toward an organization in which brigades
                            are the largest operating unit.

                            - Dan Ford US

                            On 11/18/2012 9:26 AM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:
                            > I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade



                            ------------------------------------

                            _______________________________________________________________________
                            * PLEASE PAY YOUR ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE & MAKE A DONATION: http://tinyurl.com/ks-contribute
                            ____________________________________________________________

                            * Visit our merchandise & Bookstore: http://tinyurl.com/KS-Store
                            _______________________________________________________________________

                            KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP & FOUNDATION

                            "Research, Remembrance and Recognition of Polish citizens fighting for freedom in the Eastern Borderlands and in Exile during World War 2."
                            _______________________________________________________________________
                            OUR WEBSITES

                            * Discussion group       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
                            * Virtual Museum          http://www.kresy-siberia.org/
                            * Facebook Page!          http://www.facebook.com/KSF.FKS
                            * Memorial gallery        http://kresy-siberia.com/gallery
                            * Kresy property claims  http://www.kresy-claims.org
                            * Merchandise & Bookstore http://tinyurl.com/KS-Store
                            _______________________________________________________________________

                            * To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
                              Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com

                            * To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
                              saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
                              Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                              Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/

                            <*> Your email settings:
                                Individual Email | Traditional

                            <*> To change settings online go to:
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/join
                                (Yahoo! ID required)

                            <*> To change settings via email:
                                Kresy-Siberia-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                Kresy-Siberia-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                            <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                          • Basia
                            Dan This is illuminating! Thank you Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dan
                              This is illuminating!
                              Thank you

                              Basia Zielinska (Sydney)







                              On 18/11/12 4:58 AM, "Dan Ford" <cub06h@...> wrote:

                              >Think of it this way:
                              >
                              >The smallest infantry group is a squad of ten or twelve men. Four squads
                              >make up a platoon, and four platoons plus headquarters make up a
                              >company, so a company is about 150 men.
                              >
                              >Four companies in a battalion, along with headquarters staff and maybe a
                              >signals and a weapons platoon. So a battalion might be 600-1,000 men.
                              >
                              >Four battalions plus headquarters, artillery, and other support units
                              >in a brigade or regiment (they are about the same thing). So a brigade
                              >might be 4000-5000 men.
                              >
                              >Four brigades or regiments to a division, plus "div arty" and other
                              >support units, to a total of 10,000-15,000 men. You might for example
                              >have three infantry brigades/regiments and one armored brigade in a
                              >division. Or an armored brigade might be more or less independent,
                              >operating in support of one or more different infantry divisions at
                              >different times. Thus the British 7th Armoured Brigade "Desert Rats"
                              >went from North Africa to reinforce Burma in 1942.
                              >
                              >This varies of course from army to army and from war to war. During WW2,
                              >divisions were organized into corps, and corps were organized into
                              >armies, and armies were organized into army groups, until one was
                              >dealing with millions of men. Today, even the division is going out of
                              >fashion. The US Army is moving toward an organization in which brigades
                              >are the largest operating unit.
                              >
                              >- Dan Ford US
                              >
                              >On 11/18/2012 9:26 AM, Richard Kozlowski wrote:
                              >> I have no idea whether I mean battalion or brigade
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------
                              >
                              >_______________________________________________________________________
                              >* PLEASE PAY YOUR ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE & MAKE A DONATION:
                              >http://tinyurl.com/ks-contribute
                              >____________________________________________________________
                              >
                              >* Visit our merchandise & Bookstore: http://tinyurl.com/KS-Store
                              >_______________________________________________________________________
                              >
                              >KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP & FOUNDATION
                              >
                              >"Research, Remembrance and Recognition of Polish citizens fighting for
                              >freedom in the Eastern Borderlands and in Exile during World War 2."
                              >_______________________________________________________________________
                              >OUR WEBSITES
                              >
                              >* Discussion group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
                              >* Virtual Museum http://www.kresy-siberia.org/
                              >* Facebook Page! http://www.facebook.com/KSF.FKS
                              >* Memorial gallery http://kresy-siberia.com/gallery
                              >* Kresy property claims http://www.kresy-claims.org
                              >* Merchandise & Bookstore http://tinyurl.com/KS-Store
                              >_______________________________________________________________________
                              >
                              >* To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
                              > Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >* To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
                              > saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
                              > Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >* To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                              > Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Mark and Oyun
                              Dear Rich, OK, the mist clears... a little. It s not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We ve talked about these pictures before:
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Rich,

                                OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                                The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.

                                "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!

                                This needs a little more work!

                                Regards, Mark

                                --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                                >
                                > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                                >
                                > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                >
                                > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                                > >
                                > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                                > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                                > >
                                > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                                > >
                                > > Best regards, Mark
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Richard Kozlowski
                                Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 18, 2012
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails.  That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign.  From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P.  Do you think that is unlikely?  Rich


                                  On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:

                                   

                                  Dear Rich,

                                  OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                                  The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.

                                  "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!

                                  This needs a little more work!

                                  Regards, Mark

                                  --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                                  >
                                  > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                                  > >
                                  > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                                  > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                                  > >
                                  > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                                  > >
                                  > > Best regards, Mark
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >


                                • Mark and Oyun
                                  Dear Rich, Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace active service with national service and you may have something. It would then read A souvenir of
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dear Rich,

                                    Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace "active service" with "national service" and you may have something. It would then read "A souvenir of our army national service"...czynna sluzba.
                                    This may well mean they knew each other in Poland before the war... it would then give 2 options for 3BP... 3rd Infantry Battalion... but every regiment had a 3rd battalions so this would render it meaningless, and Poles usually talked about which regiment [Pulk] or Division [Dywizja] they were in... or it could be 3 Batalion Pancerny
                                    http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny
                                    which was formed in Warsaw. Could the word after 3BP, although rather squiggly, be Warszawa. It would make sense, especially since 3BP rings no bells with Anders and the 2nd Corps.
                                    It could be the 3 Infantry Brigade, but this in unlikely as they did not use the P in Piechota for brigades. They were referred to as Rifle Brigades.. 3BS: 3 Brygada Strzelcow
                                    The 3BPanc. [3 Armoured Brigade] was formed in 1935... so if he was 18ish between 1935 to 1938 this may be the time he did his national service.

                                    This is my best guess. Regards, Mark.


                                    --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P. Do you think that is unlikely? Rich
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Dear Rich,
                                    > >
                                    > > OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                                    > > The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.
                                    > >
                                    > > "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!
                                    > >
                                    > > This needs a little more work!
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards, Mark
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                                    > > > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Best regards, Mark
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Richard Kozlowski
                                    Dear Mark, Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935. He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed driver as his experience when
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
                                    View Source
                                    • 1 Attachment
                                    • 102 KB
                                    Dear Mark, 

                                    Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935.  He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed "driver" as his experience when joining the 2nd Corps.  So I am thinking he was also a driver in some mechanized unit in the home army.  However, his documents list his active service as beginning on 11 11 1938.

                                    Here is an early picture--let me know if you cannot see it (I cc'd your yahoo address).  Thanks!  Rich

                                  • Mark and Oyun
                                    Dear Rich, Got the photo but not much insignia to go on.Round top not square on his hat... I know this is significant, but it s too late to look it up now.
                                    Message 18 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear Rich,

                                      Got the photo but not much insignia to go on.Round top not square on his hat... I know this is significant, but it's too late to look it up now. "Driver" would seem right. The 3rd Armoured Battalion had a lot of wheeled tranport, and not that much armoured.Chances would be a truck driver.The batalion needed drivers for its transport vehicle, its personel carrying vehicles and also it ambulances:
                                      Kolumna Samochodow Ciezarowych, Kolumna Samochodow Osobowych and Kolumna Samochodow Sanitarnych
                                      http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny

                                      Regards, Mark

                                      --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Dear Mark,
                                      >
                                      > Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935. He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed "driver" as his experience when joining the 2nd Corps. So I am thinking he was also a driver in some mechanized unit in the home army. However, his documents list his active service as beginning on 11 11 1938.
                                      >
                                      > Here is an early picture--let me know if you cannot see it (I cc'd your yahoo address). Thanks! Rich
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Nov 19, 2012, at 8:28 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Dear Rich,
                                      > >
                                      > > Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace "active service" with "national service" and you may have something. It would then read "A souvenir of our army national service"...czynna sluzba.
                                      > > This may well mean they knew each other in Poland before the war... it would then give 2 options for 3BP... 3rd Infantry Battalion... but every regiment had a 3rd battalions so this would render it meaningless, and Poles usually talked about which regiment [Pulk] or Division [Dywizja] they were in... or it could be 3 Batalion Pancerny
                                      > > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny
                                      > > which was formed in Warsaw. Could the word after 3BP, although rather squiggly, be Warszawa. It would make sense, especially since 3BP rings no bells with Anders and the 2nd Corps.
                                      > > It could be the 3 Infantry Brigade, but this in unlikely as they did not use the P in Piechota for brigades. They were referred to as Rifle Brigades.. 3BS: 3 Brygada Strzelcow
                                      > > The 3BPanc. [3 Armoured Brigade] was formed in 1935... so if he was 18ish between 1935 to 1938 this may be the time he did his national service.
                                      > >
                                      > > This is my best guess. Regards, Mark.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P. Do you think that is unlikely? Rich
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > Dear Rich,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                                      > > > > The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > This needs a little more work!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Regards, Mark
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                                      > > > > > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Best regards, Mark
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • R52302
                                      Excellent, Mark, thank you! I will review. Rich
                                      Message 19 of 19 , Nov 19, 2012
                                      View Source
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Excellent, Mark, thank you!  I will review. Rich




                                        On Nov 19, 2012, at 6:56 PM, "Mark and Oyun" <mark_oyun@...> wrote:

                                         

                                        Dear Rich,

                                        Got the photo but not much insignia to go on.Round top not square on his hat... I know this is significant, but it's too late to look it up now. "Driver" would seem right. The 3rd Armoured Battalion had a lot of wheeled tranport, and not that much armoured.Chances would be a truck driver.The batalion needed drivers for its transport vehicle, its personel carrying vehicles and also it ambulances:
                                        Kolumna Samochodow Ciezarowych, Kolumna Samochodow Osobowych and Kolumna Samochodow Sanitarnych
                                        http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny

                                        Regards, Mark

                                        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Dear Mark,
                                        >
                                        > Geniek was born in 1917, making him 18 in 1935. He was a tank driver in the 4th Armoured (Skorpion) and listed "driver" as his experience when joining the 2nd Corps. So I am thinking he was also a driver in some mechanized unit in the home army. However, his documents list his active service as beginning on 11 11 1938.
                                        >
                                        > Here is an early picture--let me know if you cannot see it (I cc'd your yahoo address). Thanks! Rich
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Nov 19, 2012, at 8:28 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Dear Rich,
                                        > >
                                        > > Brilliant! Your post got me thinking. Replace "active service" with "national service" and you may have something. It would then read "A souvenir of our army national service"...czynna sluzba.
                                        > > This may well mean they knew each other in Poland before the war... it would then give 2 options for 3BP... 3rd Infantry Battalion... but every regiment had a 3rd battalions so this would render it meaningless, and Poles usually talked about which regiment [Pulk] or Division [Dywizja] they were in... or it could be 3 Batalion Pancerny
                                        > > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Batalion_Pancerny
                                        > > which was formed in Warsaw. Could the word after 3BP, although rather squiggly, be Warszawa. It would make sense, especially since 3BP rings no bells with Anders and the 2nd Corps.
                                        > > It could be the 3 Infantry Brigade, but this in unlikely as they did not use the P in Piechota for brigades. They were referred to as Rifle Brigades.. 3BS: 3 Brygada Strzelcow
                                        > > The 3BPanc. [3 Armoured Brigade] was formed in 1935... so if he was 18ish between 1935 to 1938 this may be the time he did his national service.
                                        > >
                                        > > This is my best guess. Regards, Mark.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi, Mark, yes, I remember our exchange of emails. That was before I learned that my dad fought in the Polish army in the September campaign. From the writing on the back of the photo I get the impression that the two may have known each other before Anders and before Palestine, hence the reference to 3 B.P. Do you think that is unlikely? Rich
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > Dear Rich,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > OK, the mist clears... a little. It's not the 3rd Armoured Battalion from 1939. We've talked about these pictures before:
                                        > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/message/49275
                                        > > > > The picture dates from 1943 so could not be a "Polish" Polish unit... Syria/Palestine more like.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > "3BP would normally be 3rd Armoured Brigade of Battalion but I'm fairly sure it's neither of these". I wrote that in March... but for the life of me I have no idea why I was so sure!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > This needs a little more work!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Regards, Mark
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kozlowski <r52302@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Mark and Dan, excellent info--thanks so much. Mark, here are links to the photo, back and front:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#25
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > http://www.sinokoz.com/sinokoz.com/Historical/Pages/Dads_Album.html#24
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mark and Oyun wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Dear Rich and Dan,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > I don't think there was a 3rd Armoured Brigade in 1939 so I guess the B in 3 B.P. is "batalion".
                                        > > > > > > Oh, and your photo attachment didn't seem to come out. Would love to see it.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > By the way, the Polish Army under British Command followed the British rule of 3s... same as the Dan's US but 3 Battalions to a Brigade+HQ, 3 Brigades to a Division+HQ and 3 Divisions to a Corps.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Best regards, Mark
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >

                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.