Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

Expand Messages
  • romlipin@cox.net
    Hi Dan, I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don t forget,
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Dan,
      I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
      German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
      Have a nice day
      Romuald
      ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
      > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
      >
      >
      > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
      > move its frontier farther west!
      >
      > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
      > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
      > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
      > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
      > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
      > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
      > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
      > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
      >
      > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
      > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
      > fear the Germans.
      >
      > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
      > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
      > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
      > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
      > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
      >
      > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
      >
      >
    • Lenarda Szymczak
      Romauld A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment

        Romauld

         

        A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs.   Fact or fiction?

         

        Lenarda, Australia

         

        From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
        Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Dan Ford
        Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

         

         

        Hi Dan,
        I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
        German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
        Have a nice day
        Romuald
        ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:

        >
        > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
        > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
        >
        >
        > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
        > move its frontier farther west!
        >
        > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
        > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
        > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
        > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
        > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
        > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
        > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
        > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
        >
        > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
        > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
        > fear the Germans.
        >
        > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
        > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
        > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
        > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
        > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
        >
        > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
        >
        >

      • AtticusFinch1048@aol.com
        Hi Lenarda Yes there were famous ratlines that the Germans used to escape helped by various Austrian and German Priests - without the actual knowledge of the
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Lenarda
           
          Yes there were famous ratlines that the Germans used to escape helped by various Austrian and German Priests - without the actual knowledge of the Pope. They didn't use the Basilica though.
           
          Also the OSS which became the CIA also aided in the flight of some along with the British and other allied governments.
           
          There are various books on the subject such as "Nazis on the Run by Gerald Steinacher" and "Hide and Seek by Stephen Walker" are recent books on the subject.
           
          Pawel
           
          Manchester UK
           
          In a message dated 04/07/2012 22:44:06 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:
           

          Romauld

          A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs.   Fact or fiction?

          Lenarda, Australia

          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
          Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Dan Ford
          Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

           

          Hi Dan,
          I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
          German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
          Have a nice day
          Romuald
          ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
          > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
          >
          >
          > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
          > move its frontier farther west!
          >
          > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
          > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
          > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
          > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
          > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
          > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
          > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
          > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
          >
          > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
          > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
          > fear the Germans.
          >
          > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
          > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
          > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
          > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
          > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
          >
          > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
          >
          >

        • Lenarda Szymczak
          Thank you Pawel for the information, we hear many stories as children from friends and parents, not knowing whether they are twisted memories, hopeful beliefs
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment

            Thank you Pawel for the information, we hear many stories as children from friends and parents, not knowing whether they are twisted memories, hopeful beliefs or facts.  The story of Germans going through the Catacombs, comes from a Polish Paratrooper, who flew back from England to Germany and parachuted into Germany, was this what they refer to a “market garden” operation?

            Lenarda, Australia

             

            From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
            Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:10 AM
            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

             

             

            Hi Lenarda

             

            Yes there were famous ratlines that the Germans used to escape helped by various Austrian and German Priests - without the actual knowledge of the Pope. They didn't use the Basilica though.

             

            Also the OSS which became the CIA also aided in the flight of some along with the British and other allied governments.

             

            There are various books on the subject such as "Nazis on the Run by Gerald Steinacher" and "Hide and Seek by Stephen Walker" are recent books on the subject.

             

            Pawel

             

            Manchester UK

             

            In a message dated 04/07/2012 22:44:06 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

             

            Romauld

            A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs.   Fact or fiction?

            Lenarda, Australia

            From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
            Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Dan Ford
            Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

             

            Hi Dan,
            I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
            German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
            Have a nice day
            Romuald
            ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
            >
            > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
            > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
            >
            >
            > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
            > move its frontier farther west!
            >
            > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
            > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
            > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
            > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
            > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
            > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
            > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
            > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
            >
            > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
            > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
            > fear the Germans.
            >
            > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
            > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
            > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
            > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
            > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
            >
            > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
            >
            >

          • AtticusFinch1048@aol.com
            you are welcome My Grandfather was a paratrooper in the Polish Army and jumped at Operation Market garden - which the film a Bridge to far is based on. They
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              you are welcome
               
              My Grandfather was a paratrooper in the Polish Army and jumped at Operation Market garden - which the film a Bridge to far is based on. They jumped into the Netherlands and had to escape better armed Germans. Not the first time he had escaped the Germans as he was originally a member of the 4th Engineers and was part of those who tried to defend Poland from Germany he was captured on 17th September 1939 and escaped from them over the Christmas to get through to France and Sikorski's HQ where they took part in the defence of France before entering the UK on 27th June 1940. Ironically a couple of months after his mother was arrested by the Soviets for her son being an enemy combatant and her husband being in the Police force. She never saw her home again and was moved to Krakow she wasn't in the amnesty either cos he son was already in Britain.
               
              Pawel
               
               
               
              In a message dated 04/07/2012 23:23:11 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:
               

              Thank you Pawel for the information, we hear many stories as children from friends and parents, not knowing whether they are twisted memories, hopeful beliefs or facts.  The story of Germans going through the Catacombs, comes from a Polish Paratrooper, who flew back from England to Germany and parachuted into Germany, was this what they refer to a “market garden” operation?

              Lenarda, Australia

              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
              Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:10 AM
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

               

              Hi Lenarda

              Yes there were famous ratlines that the Germans used to escape helped by various Austrian and German Priests - without the actual knowledge of the Pope. They didn't use the Basilica though.

              Also the OSS which became the CIA also aided in the flight of some along with the British and other allied governments.

              There are various books on the subject such as "Nazis on the Run by Gerald Steinacher" and "Hide and Seek by Stephen Walker" are recent books on the subject.

              Pawel

              Manchester UK

              In a message dated 04/07/2012 22:44:06 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

               

              Romauld

              A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs.   Fact or fiction?

              Lenarda, Australia

              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
              Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: Dan Ford
              Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

               

              Hi Dan,
              I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
              German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
              Have a nice day
              Romuald
              ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
              >
              > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
              > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
              >
              >
              > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
              > move its frontier farther west!
              >
              > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
              > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
              > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
              > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
              > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
              > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
              > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
              > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
              >
              > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
              > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
              > fear the Germans.
              >
              > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
              > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
              > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
              > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
              > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
              >
              > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
              >
              >

            • Lenarda Szymczak
              How amazing, your dad was where my father in law Piotr Szymczak, was as a paratrooper, not sure, but I did hear that they jumped over Berlin, is this true?
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment

                How amazing, your dad was where my father in law  Piotr Szymczak, was as a paratrooper, not sure, but I did hear that they jumped over Berlin, is this true?  and then  also, in the beginning of the 1939 battle between Germans and Polish, as was my dad Jozef Jarkiewicz. He was a Kanonier in the 8th Pulk Artillery, hauling cannons by horses in the Polish Calvary from Warsaw area. They were at ease in the forest, when  surrounded, ambushed and massacred, my father witnessed tanks charging through the forest, where they could, going over everything, small trees, shrubs, even a horse or a soldier when they fell in their path, the tanks  went over them, with my father being captured, as he was on foot and the only horses he had, were used for hauling cannons.  He spent the rest of the war in Stalag 1-A, until Capitulation and then went into displaced person camp under British Command. My father never spoke about the war or how he was treated in the Stalag, until the year before he died,  but he did speak of the long march in winter, where he lost many of his friends, who died or were shot during the march, not knowing history and not being interest, unfortunately we did not realise what a treasure trove of information he had and now it is too late.

                 

                Another myth that is going around, is that Polish Calvary, charged German tanks on horses, supposedly in the open fields.  This is a myth, Polish were never that stupid and it did not happen,  my father was a survivor of that 1st Battle. It was propaganda used  by Germans, after the first onslaught and massacre.  Actual footage shows, that the horses were used to transport the men, who took cover in the forest and attempted to defend Poland against the invading Germans, but where overwhelmed. 

                 

                Anymore myths or hearsay that the group want clarified, ask the question and someone with correct knowledge will give the factual answer.

                 

                Thanks again Pawel

                Lenarda, Australia

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
                Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:31 AM
                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                 

                 

                you are welcome

                 

                My Grandfather was a paratrooper in the Polish Army and jumped at Operation Market garden - which the film a Bridge to far is based on. They jumped into the Netherlands and had to escape better armed Germans. Not the first time he had escaped the Germans as he was originally a member of the 4th Engineers and was part of those who tried to defend Poland from Germany he was captured on 17th September 1939 and escaped from them over the Christmas to get through to France and Sikorski's HQ where they took part in the defence of France before entering the UK on 27th June 1940. Ironically a couple of months after his mother was arrested by the Soviets for her son being an enemy combatant and her husband being in the Police force. She never saw her home again and was moved to Krakow she wasn't in the amnesty either cos he son was already in Britain.

                 

                Pawel

                 

                 

                 

                In a message dated 04/07/2012 23:23:11 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

                 

                Thank you Pawel for the information, we hear many stories as children from friends and parents, not knowing whether they are twisted memories, hopeful beliefs or facts.  The story of Germans going through the Catacombs, comes from a Polish Paratrooper, who flew back from England to Germany and parachuted into Germany, was this what they refer to a “market garden” operation?

                Lenarda, Australia

                From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
                Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:10 AM
                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                 

                Hi Lenarda

                Yes there were famous ratlines that the Germans used to escape helped by various Austrian and German Priests - without the actual knowledge of the Pope. They didn't use the Basilica though.

                Also the OSS which became the CIA also aided in the flight of some along with the British and other allied governments.

                There are various books on the subject such as "Nazis on the Run by Gerald Steinacher" and "Hide and Seek by Stephen Walker" are recent books on the subject.

                Pawel

                Manchester UK

                In a message dated 04/07/2012 22:44:06 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

                 

                Romauld

                A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs.   Fact or fiction?

                Lenarda, Australia

                From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
                Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                Cc: Dan Ford
                Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                 

                Hi Dan,
                I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
                German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
                Have a nice day
                Romuald
                ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
                >
                > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
                > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
                >
                >
                > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
                > move its frontier farther west!
                >
                > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
                > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
                > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
                > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
                > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
                > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
                > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
                > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
                >
                > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
                > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
                > fear the Germans.
                >
                > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
                > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
                > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
                > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
                > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
                >
                > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                >
                >

              • anabella loy
                That is really amazing. We know almost nothing about Polish participation in WWII; very little is even known about Monte Cassino. I didn´t know that Poles
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  That is really amazing. We know almost nothing about Polish participation in WWII; very little is even known about Monte Cassino. I didn´t know that Poles were not well treated in North America. There so much to research...


                  De: "romlipin@..." <romlipin@...>
                  Para: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                  CC: Dan Ford <cub06h@...>
                  Enviado: Miércoles, 4 de julio, 2012 3:43 P.M.
                  Asunto: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                   
                  Hi Dan,
                  I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
                  German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
                  Have a nice day
                  Romuald
                  ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
                  > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
                  >
                  >
                  > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
                  > move its frontier farther west!
                  >
                  > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
                  > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
                  > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
                  > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
                  > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
                  > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
                  > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
                  > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
                  >
                  > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
                  > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
                  > fear the Germans.
                  >
                  > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
                  > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
                  > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
                  > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
                  > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
                  >
                  > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                  >
                  >



                • Mark
                  Were the russians really the ones treated with silk gloves by the West? Maybe the germans were treated with rubber gloves. Anything to hold peace after a long
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 4, 2012
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Were the russians really the ones treated with silk gloves by the West?
                    Maybe the germans were treated with rubber gloves. Anything to hold peace after a long hard war.
                    The poles surely would have been able to march in the UK victory parade were it not for the fact that nobody wanted to upset crazy Uncle Joe. That was a real slap in our faces.
                    Also, at least those 2 polish movies were good ones; much better publicity than Colonel Klink and Sgt Schulz on Hogans Heroes, the inept troops in Great Escape or Dirty Dozen, or we could have been the bumbling troops slapped around every week by Dick Morrow in Combat.
                    I wonder what else did anyone in hollywood know about Polands experience at the time?
                     
                     
                    Mark
                    Canada

                    From: anabella loy <relativ79@...>
                    To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 7:22:13 PM
                    Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                     
                    That is really amazing. We know almost nothing about Polish participation in WWII; very little is even known about Monte Cassino. I didn´t know that Poles were not well treated in North America. There so much to research...

                    De: "romlipin@..." <romlipin@...>
                    Para: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                    CC: Dan Ford <cub06h@...>
                    Enviado: Miércoles, 4 de julio, 2012 3:43 P.M.
                    Asunto: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                     
                    Hi Dan,
                    I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
                    German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
                    Have a nice day
                    Romuald
                    ---- Dan Ford <mailto:cub06h%40gmail.com> wrote:
                    >
                    > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, mailto:romlipin%40cox.net wrote:
                    > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
                    >
                    >
                    > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
                    > move its frontier farther west!
                    >
                    > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
                    > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
                    > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
                    > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
                    > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
                    > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
                    > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
                    > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
                    >
                    > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
                    > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
                    > fear the Germans.
                    >
                    > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
                    > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
                    > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
                    > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
                    > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
                    >
                    > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                    >
                    >





                  • AtticusFinch1048@aol.com
                    The paratroopers didn t jump at Berlin but a sad fact is that they were part of the UK allied forces in Berlin as I know my Grandfather was part of the Berlin
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 5, 2012
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The paratroopers didn't jump at Berlin but a sad fact is that they were part of the UK allied forces in Berlin as I know my Grandfather was part of the Berlin air lift as were a lot of the paratroopers.
                       
                      Yes it is a myth about the use of horses out in the open, yes they did use them especially in the forest as they were able to cope with the terrain and the dense forest.  It was first mentioned by Italian reporters and the Germans didn't correct them and then adopt this as propaganda against the Poles - to show them as backward etc.
                       
                      Pawel
                       
                      In a message dated 05/07/2012 00:12:54 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:
                       

                      How amazing, your dad was where my father in law  Piotr Szymczak, was as a paratrooper, not sure, but I did hear that they jumped over Berlin, is this true?  and then  also, in the beginning of the 1939 battle between Germans and Polish, as was my dad Jozef Jarkiewicz. He was a Kanonier in the 8th Pulk Artillery, hauling cannons by horses in the Polish Calvary from Warsaw area. They were at ease in the forest, when  surrounded, ambushed and massacred, my father witnessed tanks charging through the forest, where they could, going over everything, small trees, shrubs, even a horse or a soldier when they fell in their path, the tanks  went over them, with my father being captured, as he was on foot and the only horses he had, were used for hauling cannons.  He spent the rest of the war in Stalag 1-A, until Capitulation and then went into displaced person camp under British Command. My father never spoke about the war or how he was treated in the Stalag, until the year before he died,  but he did speak of the long march in winter, where he lost many of his friends, who died or were shot during the march, not knowing history and not being interest, unfortunately we did not realise what a treasure trove of information he had and now it is too late.

                      Another myth that is going around, is that Polish Calvary, charged German tanks on horses, supposedly in the open fields.  This is a myth, Polish were never that stupid and it did not happen,  my father was a survivor of that 1st Battle. It was propaganda used  by Germans, after the first onslaught and massacre.  Actual footage shows, that the horses were used to transport the men, who took cover in the forest and attempted to defend Poland against the invading Germans, but where overwhelmed. 

                      Anymore myths or hearsay that the group want clarified, ask the question and someone with correct knowledge will give the factual answer.

                      Thanks again Pawel

                      Lenarda, Australia

                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
                      Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:31 AM
                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                       

                      you are welcome

                      My Grandfather was a paratrooper in the Polish Army and jumped at Operation Market garden - which the film a Bridge to far is based on. They jumped into the Netherlands and had to escape better armed Germans. Not the first time he had escaped the Germans as he was originally a member of the 4th Engineers and was part of those who tried to defend Poland from Germany he was captured on 17th September 1939 and escaped from them over the Christmas to get through to France and Sikorski's HQ where they took part in the defence of France before entering the UK on 27th June 1940. Ironically a couple of months after his mother was arrested by the Soviets for her son being an enemy combatant and her husband being in the Police force. She never saw her home again and was moved to Krakow she wasn't in the amnesty either cos he son was already in Britain.

                      Pawel

                      In a message dated 04/07/2012 23:23:11 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

                       

                      Thank you Pawel for the information, we hear many stories as children from friends and parents, not knowing whether they are twisted memories, hopeful beliefs or facts.  The story of Germans going through the Catacombs, comes from a Polish Paratrooper, who flew back from England to Germany and parachuted into Germany, was this what they refer to a “market garden” operation?

                      Lenarda, Australia

                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
                      Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:10 AM
                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                       

                      Hi Lenarda

                      Yes there were famous ratlines that the Germans used to escape helped by various Austrian and German Priests - without the actual knowledge of the Pope. They didn't use the Basilica though.

                      Also the OSS which became the CIA also aided in the flight of some along with the British and other allied governments.

                      There are various books on the subject such as "Nazis on the Run by Gerald Steinacher" and "Hide and Seek by Stephen Walker" are recent books on the subject.

                      Pawel

                      Manchester UK

                      In a message dated 04/07/2012 22:44:06 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

                       

                      Romauld

                      A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs.   Fact or fiction?

                      Lenarda, Australia

                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
                      Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc: Dan Ford
                      Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                       

                      Hi Dan,
                      I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
                      German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
                      Have a nice day
                      Romuald
                      ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
                      > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
                      > move its frontier farther west!
                      >
                      > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
                      > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
                      > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
                      > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
                      > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
                      > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
                      > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
                      > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
                      >
                      > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
                      > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
                      > fear the Germans.
                      >
                      > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
                      > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
                      > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
                      > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
                      > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
                      >
                      > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                      >
                      >

                    • Dan Ford
                      There is a pretty convincing argument that Hollywood during the 1930s and 1940s was chockablock with leftists (as indeed it is today!). Many of them I am sure
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 5, 2012
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        There is a pretty convincing argument that Hollywood during the 1930s
                        and 1940s was chockablock with leftists (as indeed it is today!). Many
                        of them I am sure were members of the Communist party or closely bound
                        to its zigs and zags. Their distaste for Poland and things Polish was
                        inhaled directly from the Soviet propaganda of the day. I believe there
                        have been theses written on this subject.

                        You mentioned The Great Escape. "Danny" the tunneler was a Polish airman
                        in the RAF. He was portrayed as admirable--but he wasn't very bright!
                        This was fairly standard. Think Marlon Brando in A Streetcar Named
                        Desire. Everybody loved him, but wow, was he ever dumb! Try to imagine
                        these two roles being filled by black actors today. It wouldn't be allowed.

                        -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA

                        On 7/4/2012 8:20 PM, Mark wrote:
                        > I wonder what else did anyone in hollywood know about Polands
                        > experience at the time?
                      • Lenarda Szymczak
                        Pawel, thank you so much for this info. And I agree that the Poles were never backward, but then Germany did surprise the world with its tanks, so I suppose
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 5, 2012
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Pawel, thank you so much for this info. And I agree that the Poles were never backward, but then Germany did surprise the world with its tanks, so I suppose the world was backward as well,  but perhaps, this was too big a page spread in the local newspaper, to include all the world as backward, so they used Poland with the propaganda to intimidate them and the world stood by and stared, until Germany got too close and then they started to protect themselves.  I am not a historian, but explain the situation, event in lay mans terms.

                           

                          It is always interesting to find out where the myths originate from and then get used for the advantage of the enemy, so war is not only physical combat, but also psychological terror. No wonder our parents were traumatised.

                           

                          Warmest regards,
                          Lenarda, Australia

                           

                           

                           

                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
                          Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:12 PM
                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII/horses and tanks

                           

                           

                          The paratroopers didn't jump at Berlin but a sad fact is that they were part of the UK allied forces in Berlin as I know my Grandfather was part of the Berlin air lift as were a lot of the paratroopers.

                           

                          Yes it is a myth about the use of horses out in the open, yes they did use them especially in the forest as they were able to cope with the terrain and the dense forest.  It was first mentioned by Italian reporters and the Germans didn't correct them and then adopt this as propaganda against the Poles - to show them as backward etc.

                           

                          Pawel

                           

                          In a message dated 05/07/2012 00:12:54 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

                           

                          How amazing, your dad was where my father in law  Piotr Szymczak, was as a paratrooper, not sure, but I did hear that they jumped over Berlin, is this true?  and then  also, in the beginning of the 1939 battle between Germans and Polish, as was my dad Jozef Jarkiewicz. He was a Kanonier in the 8th Pulk Artillery, hauling cannons by horses in the Polish Calvary from Warsaw area. They were at ease in the forest, when  surrounded, ambushed and massacred, my father witnessed tanks charging through the forest, where they could, going over everything, small trees, shrubs, even a horse or a soldier when they fell in their path, the tanks  went over them, with my father being captured, as he was on foot and the only horses he had, were used for hauling cannons.  He spent the rest of the war in Stalag 1-A, until Capitulation and then went into displaced person camp under British Command. My father never spoke about the war or how he was treated in the Stalag, until the year before he died,  but he did speak of the long march in winter, where he lost many of his friends, who died or were shot during the march, not knowing history and not being interest, unfortunately we did not realise what a treasure trove of information he had and now it is too late.

                          Another myth that is going around, is that Polish Calvary, charged German tanks on horses, supposedly in the open fields.  This is a myth, Polish were never that stupid and it did not happen,  my father was a survivor of that 1st Battle. It was propaganda used  by Germans, after the first onslaught and massacre.  Actual footage shows, that the horses were used to transport the men, who took cover in the forest and attempted to defend Poland against the invading Germans, but where overwhelmed. 

                          Anymore myths or hearsay that the group want clarified, ask the question and someone with correct knowledge will give the factual answer.

                          Thanks again Pawel

                          Lenarda, Australia

                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
                          Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:31 AM
                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                           

                          you are welcome

                          My Grandfather was a paratrooper in the Polish Army and jumped at Operation Market garden - which the film a Bridge to far is based on. They jumped into the Netherlands and had to escape better armed Germans. Not the first time he had escaped the Germans as he was originally a member of the 4th Engineers and was part of those who tried to defend Poland from Germany he was captured on 17th September 1939 and escaped from them over the Christmas to get through to France and Sikorski's HQ where they took part in the defence of France before entering the UK on 27th June 1940. Ironically a couple of months after his mother was arrested by the Soviets for her son being an enemy combatant and her husband being in the Police force. She never saw her home again and was moved to Krakow she wasn't in the amnesty either cos he son was already in Britain.

                          Pawel

                          In a message dated 04/07/2012 23:23:11 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

                           

                          Thank you Pawel for the information, we hear many stories as children from friends and parents, not knowing whether they are twisted memories, hopeful beliefs or facts.  The story of Germans going through the Catacombs, comes from a Polish Paratrooper, who flew back from England to Germany and parachuted into Germany, was this what they refer to a “market garden” operation?

                          Lenarda, Australia

                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AtticusFinch1048@...
                          Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 8:10 AM
                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                           

                          Hi Lenarda

                          Yes there were famous ratlines that the Germans used to escape helped by various Austrian and German Priests - without the actual knowledge of the Pope. They didn't use the Basilica though.

                          Also the OSS which became the CIA also aided in the flight of some along with the British and other allied governments.

                          There are various books on the subject such as "Nazis on the Run by Gerald Steinacher" and "Hide and Seek by Stephen Walker" are recent books on the subject.

                          Pawel

                          Manchester UK

                          In a message dated 04/07/2012 22:44:06 GMT Daylight Time, szymczak01@... writes:

                           

                          Romauld

                          A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs.   Fact or fiction?

                          Lenarda, Australia

                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
                          Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                          Cc: Dan Ford
                          Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII

                           

                          Hi Dan,
                          I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
                          German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
                          Have a nice day
                          Romuald
                          ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... wrote:
                          > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
                          >
                          >
                          > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
                          > move its frontier farther west!
                          >
                          > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
                          > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
                          > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
                          > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
                          > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
                          > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
                          > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
                          > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
                          >
                          > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
                          > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
                          > fear the Germans.
                          >
                          > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
                          > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
                          > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
                          > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
                          > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
                          >
                          > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                          >
                          >

                        • romlipin@cox.net
                          I agree with you. I could extend my remarks on anti-polonism further. Look how the Brits treated gen. Sosabowski and gen. Maczek. They made Sosabowski a
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 5, 2012
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I agree with you. I could extend my remarks on anti-polonism further. Look how the Brits treated gen. Sosabowski and gen. Maczek. They made Sosabowski a scapegoat for their failure at Arnheim. And Maczek did not get his pension. Sure, after Monte Cassino they were generous with good words about the valor of Polish soldiers, but this changed quickly. And when we were fighting they were carving our country. Makes me seek when I think about perfidy of our "friends".
                            Romuald

                            ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@...> wrote:
                            > There is a pretty convincing argument that Hollywood during the 1930s
                            > and 1940s was chockablock with leftists (as indeed it is today!). Many
                            > of them I am sure were members of the Communist party or closely bound
                            > to its zigs and zags. Their distaste for Poland and things Polish was
                            > inhaled directly from the Soviet propaganda of the day. I believe there
                            > have been theses written on this subject.
                            >
                            > You mentioned The Great Escape. "Danny" the tunneler was a Polish airman
                            > in the RAF. He was portrayed as admirable--but he wasn't very bright!
                            > This was fairly standard. Think Marlon Brando in A Streetcar Named
                            > Desire. Everybody loved him, but wow, was he ever dumb! Try to imagine
                            > these two roles being filled by black actors today. It wouldn't be allowed.
                            >
                            > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                            >
                            > On 7/4/2012 8:20 PM, Mark wrote:
                            > > I wonder what else did anyone in hollywood know about Polands
                            > > experience at the time?
                            >
                            >
                          • romlipin@cox.net
                            Hi Mark, Speaking about victory parades I could add one more:after taking Rome gen Lees designated one detachment of Polish soldiers to participate in the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 5, 2012
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Mark,
                              Speaking about victory parades I could add one more:after taking Rome gen Lees designated one detachment of Polish soldiers to participate in the parade in Rome. Gen Mark Clark rejected that - he wanted that to be all-American show. He was obsessed about Rome. His inflated ego demanded that he will be MARCUS CLARKUS - THE CONQUEROR OF ROME!
                              I read that he gave orders to his troops that in the event that the Brits would be entering Rome first the Amerian s were supposed to shoot at them...
                              Romuald
                              ---- Mark <turkiewiczm@...> wrote:
                              > Were the russians really the ones treated with silk gloves by the West?
                              > Maybe the germans were treated with rubber gloves. Anything to hold peace after a long hard war.
                              > The poles surely would have been able to march in the UK victory parade were it not for the fact that nobody wanted to upset crazy Uncle Joe. That was a real slap in our faces.
                              > Also, at least those 2 polish movies were good ones; much better publicity than Colonel Klink and Sgt Schulz on Hogans Heroes, the inept troops in Great Escape or Dirty Dozen, or we could have been the bumbling troops slapped around every week by Dick Morrow in Combat.
                              > I wonder what else did anyone in hollywood know about Polands experience at the time?
                              >  
                              >
                              > Mark
                              > Canada
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: anabella loy <relativ79@...>
                              > To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 7:22:13 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > That is really amazing. We know almost nothing about Polish participation in WWII; very little is even known about Monte Cassino. I didn´t know that Poles were not well treated in North America. There so much to research...
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > De: "romlipin@..." <romlipin@...>
                              > Para: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              > CC: Dan Ford <cub06h@...>
                              > Enviado: Miércoles, 4 de julio, 2012 3:43 P.M.
                              > Asunto: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              > Hi Dan,
                              > I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
                              > German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
                              > Have a nice day
                              > Romuald
                              > ---- Dan Ford <mailto:cub06h%40gmail.com> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, mailto:romlipin%40cox.net wrote:
                              > > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
                              > > move its frontier farther west!
                              > >
                              > > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
                              > > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
                              > > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
                              > > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
                              > > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
                              > > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
                              > > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
                              > > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
                              > >
                              > > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
                              > > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
                              > > fear the Germans.
                              > >
                              > > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
                              > > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
                              > > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
                              > > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
                              > > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
                              > >
                              > > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • romlipin@cox.net
                              It s well known fact, and I do t believe that the Pope did not know about it. Rpmuald
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 5, 2012
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                It's well known fact, and I do't believe that the Pope did not know about it.
                                Rpmuald

                                ---- Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...> wrote:
                                > Romauld
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > A story I heard floating around, being told by the old Poles in Australia, is that the church was helping German Officers escape through the Basilica’s Catacoombs. Fact or fiction?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Lenarda, Australia
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of romlipin@...
                                > Sent: Thursday, 05 July, 2012 4:43 AM
                                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                > Cc: Dan Ford
                                > Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] WWII
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Dan,
                                > I think that after the WWII West treated the Germans with silk gloves. They did not want weak Germany and often at the cost of Poland. Don't forget, that for many years after the WWII western border was not considered as permanent. It was finalized sometimes in the 90s. Antipolonism was evident even in Hollywood. There was only two movies produced on the subject of Poland:"The song to Remember" about Chopin, where the"bad guys" were the Russians and the othe "To be or not to be" a comedy. Nothing about sacrifices of Poland and its contribution in the war. After the war the
                                > German immigration quota for the Germans was higher than for Poles. And somewhere I read that Polish veterans coming to Canada were treated worse than German POWs. For many years Poland did not even have its own head of the church - it belong to one of the Germandiocesies. That was due to the sympathetic trend fowards Germany that dominated during the time of Pope Pius XII. And of course, after the war there was a pressure on us, veterans of the Polish Army to go back to Poland. We were the "bloody foreigners". When Dutch government wanted to have a ceremony to honor Polish veterans who participated in the Market-Garden operation, the Brits protested and it was pasponed until many years later. Now they start to talk different and that is shown in "Behind the Closed Door" movie.
                                > Have a nice day
                                > Romuald
                                > ---- Dan Ford <cub06h@... <mailto:cub06h%40gmail.com> > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > On 7/4/2012 8:25 AM, romlipin@... <mailto:romlipin%40cox.net> wrote:
                                > > > he simply wanted to expand communsm further west
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Well, that, but perhaps more important--he wanted to shrink Germany and
                                > > move its frontier farther west!
                                > >
                                > > When I was hitchhiking through Italy in 1955, the roads were full of
                                > > American automobiles bearing license plates saying US FORCES IN AUSTRIA.
                                > > The Russians and the western Allies had agreed to neutralize Austria and
                                > > move their troops out of the country. I was puzzled why the Russians
                                > > would do this, but of course as long as Hungary and Czechoslovakia were
                                > > in the way, they didn't really care about Austria. It would be a long
                                > > way from Vienna to Moscow, even with a second Anschluss. (And, to be
                                > > sure, Stalin was two years in his grave by then.)
                                > >
                                > > I think it was geography as much or more than ideology that determined
                                > > Poland's western border. The Russians did have very sound reasons to
                                > > fear the Germans.
                                > >
                                > > As did the British! The gag in Britain at that time was that Nato's
                                > > purpose was "To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans
                                > > down." There was also considerable skepticism about the three-wheeled
                                > > Messerschmitt KR-175 "automobile". "Comes the war," my room-mate would
                                > > say, "they'll put wings on it, and Bob's your uncle--the Luftwaffe is back!"
                                > >
                                > > -- Dan Ford, New Hampshire USA
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.