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Re: [Kresy-Siberia] holocaust victims

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  • Bernard Starzewski
    Yes, but the term The Holocost has come to mean this particular genocide. I is without denial I think, the definitive example of systematic elimination of a
    Message 1 of 34 , Feb 1, 2012
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      Yes, but the term "The Holocost" has come to mean this particular genocide.
      I is without denial I think, the definitive example of systematic elimination of a particular group in the history of the world.  There is no way to deny that.

      Jews also use the word Shoah.  I do not know the meaning of that word but it is also the title of the Spielberg documentary.

      It is interesting to note that in response to questions regarding the consequences of the "final solution" (another phrase that has taken on particular meaning) Hitler is said to have quipped, "Who remembers the Armenians?"

      Bernie Starzewski
      Wisconsin USA


      From: Dan Ford <cub06h@...>
      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 6:30 AM
      Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] holocaust victims

      The Oxford English dictionary defines holocaust as 1) a sacrifice by
      fire, 2) a large-scale sacrifice, 3) a great slaughter, especially by
      fire, and only then 4) the murder of the Jews by the Germans. This last
      sense is a 20th century term, and as I understand it, it was an
      invention postwar as a consequence not only of the slaughter, but also
      and perhaps more important, the fire, this to remember the ovens.

      I think the word you want is genocide: "the deliberate and systematic
      destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or
      national group".  It was coined I think by Raphael Lemkin of Lwow. It
      includes the Holocaust but is much more expansive.

      The ICC has designated several genocides, but they tend to be findings
      against small and weak countries. Nobody is going to label China as
      perpetrating genocide in Tibet! I think it's equally unlikely that the
      ICC will find Russia or Germany guilty of genocide in Poland. Or against
      the US for its treatment of blacks prior to the 1970s.

      These are very sensitive matters. It is illegal in Turkey to refer to
      the WW1 slaughter of Armenians as a genocide, while in France it is
      illegal to DENY the Armenian genocide!

      Blue skies! -- Dan Ford USA

      On 1/31/2012 8:30 PM, Julian Plowy wrote:
      > That type of description is a meaning of holocaust.


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    • Dan Ford
      His father was imprisoned, I think in the 1950s, and sent to a Soviet uranium mine. He was released after some years but died while fairly young. At dinner one
      Message 34 of 34 , Feb 4, 2012
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        His father was imprisoned, I think in the 1950s, and sent to a Soviet
        uranium mine. He was released after some years but died while fairly
        young. At dinner one night he (my neighbor) got talking because he was
        in my company and had been asking about such things, and also because
        his cousin and family were visiting from Germany, and they both shared
        the experience of escaping from Poland. And perhaps there was a glass of
        wine involved. Anyhow, he told his father's story about dinner in the
        camp, and how one particular sadistic trusty (I don't know the Polish or
        Russian or even British name for a prisoner who collaborates with the
        guards for better treatment) died as the result of an accident, probably
        no accident at all, and that night a human skull turned up in the soup vat.

        At this exact moment, his pretty wife (a classmate of my daughter's at
        Harvard, as it happens) came out from the kitchen to ask whether we
        wanted ice cream on our cake for dessert. Even as she spoke, she was
        processing this story which she had heard while entering the room, and
        the expression on her face was something to behold. In her right hand
        she held a plate of chocolate cake by itself, and in her left the same
        cake a la mode.

        They have certainly livened up the neighborhood, though they haven't
        been up much this winter. The previous owners never spoke to us. I once
        saw them walking along the road with a baby carriage, and thought, Oh! a
        grandchild, how nice! but on getting closer realized that it was a dog
        in the carriage (pram).

        Blue skies! -- Dan Ford USA

        On 2/4/2012 12:58 PM, Cynthia Pukiello wrote:
        >
        > Hello Dan,
        > Could not help but say a few words re;your neighbour & just how
        > affluent these people are after all they have gone through & good luck
        > to him ,you are e
        > very fortunate to have such a neighbour.
        > I am the widow of a polish man who was arrested aged 16 years & sent
        > as a deportee to Siberia.
        > Good wishes are sent to you & yours.
        > Cynthia Pukiello (English UK).
        >
        >
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