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A forgotten Odyssey

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  • john
    IO have a request for a DVD of this film How do I get a copy?
    Message 1 of 63 , Jan 31, 2011
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      IO have a request for a DVD of this film How do I get a copy?
    • eve5j
      Terry, I must say I tend to agree with Roman here. There are theses, and then there are theses. Right now the German minister of defense may lose his job and
      Message 63 of 63 , Feb 17, 2011
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        Terry,

        I must say I tend to agree with Roman here. There are theses, and then there are theses. Right now the German minister of defense may lose his job and his Ph.D. for plagiarism of his thesis. As far as anti-Semitism in Haller's Army is concerned, I feel the proof provided is primarily hearsay in everything I've read to date. The writer of this thesis did not mention that Poles also lost their lives in these riots or whatever these events are considered. Some years ago there was another Ph.D. thesis under discussion in another group making the same allegations, if I recall. The source citations contained were pitiful and shoddy really, and I wondered aloud, at the time, if they were checked prior to awarding the Ph.D. That's not to say that there was no anti-Semitism or anti-Polonism in Jewish circles in Poland at that time either, but it must also be kept in mind that it was a different time.

        I guess the reason for your grandfather enlisting in Haller's Army is the same as anyone enlisting in the service---for a little adventure, a change of scenery, or a new job? He probably didn't like the USA and so at least wanted to spend some time in Poland again?

        Eve

        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, terry polewski <tpolewski@...> wrote:
        >
        > Roman,
        >
        > I have to disagree with your sentiment towards this thesis. Maybe I am not
        > intrepreting your message most clearly, but I believe it is fairly well written.
        > As Stefan has mentioned, my grandfather served with the Polish Army in
        > France/Haller's Army, enlisting in Chicago in Oct 1917 following through until
        > his discharge in late 1921 and so have tried to read and absorb as much as
        > possible about this. Of Haller's Army, you will read countless tales of how the
        > men enlisted for the sole purpose of expelling the tri-partitioners and for the
        > reconstitution Poland, but read little on the fact that many Poles in the USA
        > were tired of their lives here and so thought of it as a paycheck, getting one
        > step closer to their old home or enlisting under social pressure. Even in my
        > grandfather's case I am torn, as he did not hide the fact he hated Chicago but
        > years later when married, he sent my grandmother on a pilgrimage to Krakow,
        > saying 'go see the Poland I fought for'. So why did he enlist? For Poland? or to
        > get out of the USA? My point being that he at least covers a few topics that are
        > scarcely mentioned in more semi-official writings in regards to these men -
        > their desire to get back to the USA and what had to happen for that to happen
        > while they lingered in demobilization camps and that there was anti-semitism
        > within. 
        > These are my opinions, supplemented with the fact that there is so little in
        > depth material on the Army, that I get tired of reading the same old stuff and
        > as such was maybe just happy to see something different written, not forgetting
        > it did warrant the granting of Ph.D.
        >
        > thanks,
        > Terry Polewski
        >  
        >
        > ________________________________
        >
        > From: R. Zawadzki <r.zawadzki@...>
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 3:16:43 AM
        > Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Haller's Army Re: incorrect terminology [WAS
        > settlers (military or otherwise)]
        >
        > Dear Stefan,
        >
        > I looked through the history dissertation and it struck me as less than
        > objective. The author's conclusion confirmed this:
        >
        > "This study of the Polish Army in France has been based upon previous research
        > published in English and Polish and has used American archival materials to
        > balance the nationalistic hyperbole of sponsored histories against the
        > hard-bitten realities of anti-Semitic atrocities, disillusionment with the new
        > Polish state, and desire to return to the United States." (page 166)
        >
        > Roman Zawadzki
        >
        > Los Angeles
        >
        > From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Stefan Jackowski
        > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 6:57 AM
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Haller's Army Re: incorrect terminology [WAS
        > settlers (military or otherwise)]
        >
        > Hi Terry, Joanna, Eve,
        >
        > Rather than the vague, gushing Web site noted earlier, see:
        > http://tinyurl.com/4t6zarq
        > It's a well researched 177 pg. history dissertation that give a far more
        > complete and objective account of
        >
        > Haller's "Blue" Army, though it focuses on the USA contingent that made up only
        > about 30% of the Polish
        >
        > troops.
        >
        > (Terry, I know we share an interest in this, as both of our grandfathers were
        > both Haller's Army veterans
        > and also "military settlers" in the Kresy. I think you've already see this
        > article?)
        >
        > But I've since found this: http://pygmywars.com/history/lvivwar/lvivintro.html
        > which gives some hard-to-find info on the brief Polish-Ukrainian War, which
        > involved Haller's Army soon after
        > it was moved to Poland in 1919, and just before the better known Polish-Soviet
        > War.
        >
        > Hope it's of interest, and sorry than time did not permit me to add this
        > earlier.
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Stefan Jackowski
        > Toronto
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: terry polewski <tpolewski@... <mailto:tpolewski%40yahoo.com> >
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 2:30:04 PM
        > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Haller's Army Re: incorrect terminology [WAS settlers
        > (military or otherwise)]
        >
        > 'Some' of the Kresy settlers were veteran's of Haller's Army. Of the 90,000+ who
        >
        >
        > returned to Poland from France there were roughly about 5000 who remained in
        > Poland after the Treaty of Riga and by the mid 20's that number was about half,
        > and of course not all chose to take advantage of the Land Act. In fact many of
        > those American Poles who had volunteered (20,000+) did not finish the Polish
        > Soviet War, instead waiting for somebody to arrange and pay for
        > passage home. One cannot forget the many other units who settled in the
        > Kresy. I
        >
        > know that of the 45 or so families from my father's Hallerowo (so named after
        > Haller himself) only 13 were from the USA, though some of the others may have
        > began their service in France, in what was still 'Armia Polska we Francje.' Â
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: "anna.pierce@... <mailto:anna.pierce%40talk21.com> "
        > <anna.pierce@... <mailto:anna.pierce%40talk21.com> >
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 3:47:32 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: incorrect terminology [WAS settlers (military
        > or otherwise)]
        >
        > Â
        > http://www.hallersarmy.com/
        >
        > --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Joanna Rabkin <joannarabkin@...
        > <mailto:joannarabkin%40att.net> > wrote:
        >
        > From: Joanna Rabkin <joannarabkin@... <mailto:joannarabkin%40att.net> >
        > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: incorrect terminology [WAS settlers (military
        > or otherwise)]
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Tuesday, 8 February, 2011, 20:40
        >
        > ÃÆ'‚Â
        >
        > The settlers in Kresy were veterans of the Blue Army that was all volunteer army
        >
        >
        > that fought in World War I in France.It also included
        >
        > Poles from U.S.Blue Army,because their uniforms were blue.
        >
        > The General was JuzefHaller.A great Polish patriot,that brought the
        >
        > remnants of this army to Poland.
        >
        > He resurrected the army,and fought the Russians for Poland's independence.(1920)
        >
        > He was ,with Pilsudski ,the hero of the war.
        >
        > It is worthwhile to read about him in Wikipedia.His demobilized army
        >
        > were offered land in Kresy.
        >
        > ciao
        >
        > Joanna Szablicki
        >
        > ________________________________
        >
        > From: Danuta Janina WÃÆ'ƒÆ’ÃÆ'‚³jcik <sandlily@...
        > <mailto:sandlily%40shaw.ca> >
        >
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
        >
        > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 9:55:39 AM
        >
        > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: incorrect terminology [WAS settlers (military
        >
        > or otherwise)]
        >
        > Witam,
        >
        > Were these ex-combatant settlers, veterans from the Austrian/Hungarian Army,
        >
        > Polish Legions, Ukrainian Galician Army or Krakusi (local volunteers) ???
        >
        > pozdrawiam
        >
        > Danuta
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > From: eve5j
        >
        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
        >
        > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:10 AM
        >
        > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: incorrect terminology [WAS settlers (military or
        >
        > otherwise)]
        >
        > The word "army" used below is definitely incorrect since it connotes active
        >
        > duty military personnel. This is the only time I have seen settlers referred to
        >
        > as "army." This should be corrected on the website for the record.
        >
        > Eve
        >
        > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com> ,
        > "janusz_ks" <kresy@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > The jewishgen.org site states that "the deportees from the Baranowicze area
        >
        > were generally families of army settlers". Army or military, but not 'veterans'
        >
        > >
        >
        > > That's enough examples....
        >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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